Obama and Huckabee win Iowa Straw Vote

[Miss Philicia]

MSNBC just called it for both of these candidates.

[minismom]

Just saw that.  I'm still not understanding why Iowa gets to decide who the front-runners are.  I know it's all about the money and who's gonna get what and how much.  But candidates decide whether to continue in the race or drop out based on what happens in one state.  I truly dont' understand it.  Either way, at this point, I have no idea who I'm going to vote for.  I wish some really awesome 3rd party candidate would come forward.

Huckabee just said that it's not about hating the people in front of us, but loving those behind us.  Not sure why I find that so funny. (well, OK, yeah I do )

[Ric Wilke]

Huckabee can bite my poz ass!!!  Maybe then he could walk a mile in our shoes.

[StrongGuy]

All the Democrats seem really good to me. Obama's speech was really good - though Hillary is still my favorite I think Elizabeth Edward's should run.

I have to agree about Iowa being first - very confusing and seems unfair.

As long as there's no Republican in office, may the best Democratic man or woman win.

I'm so sick of watching this country going backwards.

[randym431]

Here in iOwa, it isn’t really realistic. The caucus system locks out anyone working evenings and nights, like me. They are from 7pm (pm as in night time pm), and last 2 to 3 hours. Most older folks and working families can not get home, get dinner on the table, get a baby sitter and run out to "caucus" for 3 hours during a week night. Its really a joke.   And in our local paper, it was said the turnout was so huge that many went back home when they could not even find parking places or get in the door to register. Hardly a true pulse on the voting environment to come. So you get people like Obama and huckeeeibeeie (whatever).

That is why you hear others like McCain and Rudy blowing off iOwa and going right to the state that matters, New Hampshire.  I still expect Hillary to be the democrat front runner, and Rudy or McCain on the repub side.

Obama and Huck get their 15 min of fame, thats about it. It was also reported MANY repubs crossed over and registered as demo just to vote for Obama, cause they fear Hillary, not Obama in the fall.
I know one caucus near where I work, where one democrat said most the people at the school were her "republican" neighbors. Known registered republicans crossing over to vote Obama. Just in hopes to knock off Hillary.

iowans are good at that trick. Back in the 1990's when Goffer from love boat was running for gov here, many demo's crossed over to vote repub for Goofer, just so Eagleton would not win the repub gov challenge. Yes, I was a republican for a day!!!

When you consider people like me, working evenings, and the cops on the streets, and the firemen, and all those evening clerks at Wally world and 7-11's that were locked out from attending, its obvious these results from iOwa were "un reliable" at best.  And there are NO provisions made for absentee voting. If you work evenings and cant attend, you're screwed! Period.
Hardly a fair old fashion American way....

And the reason iOwa does this is greed. Way back in 1970's iOwa had a shot at becoming the "first" state in the mix. But.... only if iOwa went the caucus route, which they did. Just to be greedy and take first place before New Hampshire. New Hampshire... which btw votes in a voting booth from 7am - 9pm. The only real way to hold any election. Everyone gets to vote. And the time frame fits 99% of people time schedule.
No wasting hours in a crowded school room, no paying babysitters, no parking problems, and absentee voting fallback.

It will be interesting and refreshing to see what New Hamp does next week, and the other states after that.
If I were one of those running that were the bottom of the barrel in iOwa, I surely would not give up just because of what some little caucus state like iOwa does. Would be a HUGE mistake.

But at least Obama and Huck will get their happy dance on the morning news shows tomorrow, and their 15 minutes of fame.

[mjmel]

I was watching the evening news last night where the Iowa Caucus was explained, step by step, along with endorsement process held in the local library. True to what Randym431 stated, it surely did not seem like equal representation.
Noteworthy: Ronald Regan did poorly in the Iowa Caucus. He went on to win the presidential elections that year.
Most of us agree that 8 years of Bush is torturous; can you imagine 4 years of Huckabee? (shudder)

Mike M

[randym431]

Many know there will be a big issue created against Obama with bigotry. I see it already. Thats may be why "some" republicans want to run against Obama and not Hillary.
Why they "crossed over" to vote Obama.
After Obama won and when he went on the air starting his speech, our local news station cut suddenly "waiting" for Fred Thompson HQ for Fred to show. I thought WTF...
Obama just won and was finally speaking, and they see the need to cut to some near empty
room waiting for old Fred???

I expect thats how a lot of the press will treat Obama should he move past New Hampshire.
This country is still very strongly bigoted. Especially in these parts of the so called "bible belt". (cough cough)

I have gotten so many blasted emails passed around spreading lies about Obama. Pure Bigotry!
Especially the ones that claim Obama is  a secret Muslim and took the oath using the Koran, not the bible.

Fact is, it was congressman Keith Ellison that did that, not Obama. And even Keith Ellison took the oath on Thomas Jefferson's Koran. Yes, old TJ's Koran...!

[Miss Philicia]

Uh, Obama is polling very well in New Hampshire and South Carolina for the next primaries.  I really don't see that as a fleeting 15 minutes of fame.  Huckabee more so, but then he's come out of no where in the past 2 months.

Rudy's toast and irrelevant now, thanks to all the press his messy personal life has gotten since treating his mistress to tax-funded security years ago in NYC.

[Cliff]

If spreading lies about Obama makes someone a bigot, then what does that say about Clinton?  Seems like she is running (if not quietly) a dirty campaign with her own staffers/supporters spreading lies about Obama.  My favorite being that he's a Muslim.  That's rich.  I think you are starting to see Democrats show their true colors.

But I don't think Obama's race being that huge of an issue in the South.  The democrats rarely carry the south anyway, so how will having Obama instead of Clinton on the ticket make that any better for the Republicans?  Plus a significant percentage of minority voters are in the south.  Clinton keeps running a dirty campaign she risks turning them off from her and them deciding to stay at home on election day.  For the borderline states (Florida, Louisiana, parts of the Southern east coast), the Democrats will rely heavily on minority voting.

While there will be some people that will not vote for Obama because of race (seems like a justification to not vote for him because of his race since his race will be an issue...but that is unfairly making his race an issue), there are also people who will not vote for Clinton (especially down south) because she is a woman.  As well as people who will not vote for her (especially down south) because she is a Clinton!

[komnaes]

Is it crazy to still think that John Edwards still has a chance?

[Cliff]

I think any of the top 3 (Clinton, Obama or Edwards) still have a good chance at winning.  It's still early days.  Though if he places 3rd in New Hampshire, it would seem like an uphill battle.

[Matty the Damned]

From an outsiders perspective, I have to say it's fascinating to watch this method of selecting candidates to contest public elections.

It differs so markedly from our process of selecting candidates, known as preselection, which is controlled by party heavy weights and involves a closed group of insiders.

Excellent stuff.

MtD

[randym431]

I just remember how the old Bush used the Willy Horton ad's.
Wasnt that long ago.
And I remembered Willy horton's name without a google.
I hope for either a woman, or black for the next president.
I dont even care how bad a president they might turn out to be.
What I'd like to see with electing a black or woman, is this country "opening up"
to a new day. Once we get past the old white boys club of presidents, we will
be a better nation.
Maybe Hillary is evil and a Clinton, but if she were elected, the next woman to be elected
after her just might be the best president we ever had.
Who knows... maybe the door would be open for the first Gay president and his first mate.
At least we could go back to wearing those white wigs the English liked so much.   

[J.R.E.]

Is it crazy to still think that John Edwards still has a chance?

No, I don't think it's crazy at all to think that. A  Lot can change...


Ray

[Dachshund]

Iowa followed next week by New Hampshire get tons of press because they are first. However, they really aren't representative of the party because Independents can vote either Republican or Democratic. New Hampshire is the same way. Remember back in 2000 when John McCain whipped Bush's ass in New Hampshire, because Independents of both party's voted for him.

Though I'm a Edwards supporter I'm afraid he lacks the one thing he needs most to continue, money. Obama and Hillary are rolling in it and can survive a loss along the way and still continue on to Super Tuesday. South Carolina will be very interesting, where half of the registered voters in the primary will be black and all three candidates offer an appeal. That's one to watch.

In reality it all boils down to Super Tuesday where the majority of states have their primaries and the commitment of delegates. Organization and money will be key in deciding the outcome.

Wow, a civil thread about politics who da thunk it.

ps I'm a happy camper I love both of the top two finishers in the Democratic party.

[bear60]

I was told that the reason Huckabee won in Iowa was because those conservative Republicans do not like Mormons.

[Dachshund]

I was told that the reason Huckabee won in Iowa was because those conservative Republicans do not like Mormons.

darling, conservative republicans don't like anyone

[bear60]

 

[RapidRod]

Our votes don't really matter, it will be who gets the Electoral Votes.

[randym431]

Switching gears a bit.... And Im not trying to start anything,
Maybe I need a new thread?
But I came across these two youtubes that hit me a bit disturbing.
Im not sure how or what I think about these yet.

I was hoping to come to a point to be pro Obama. But this is interesting to say the least.

Like I said, Im not trying to start anything, but looking for others take on this.

(sorry to those that cant do youtubes)

Theres this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLhf1YGViyQ&feature=related

Then this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVhq_OXvOpY&NR=1

Then again, maybe this is the best we can do, for now at least?
I think the huge young support Obama got and is getting says something of a truly new era
in American politics. Im just wondering if "we" still have a problem here???

I talked with an older Gay couple this morning, in their 70's actually, and they are concerned America
is not advancing in step with the real world, on this issue.  Or the rest of the world, that is.

[Cliff]

For those that can't access Youtube (blocked at work), what are they links to and what's your take on it?

[RapidRod]

Cliff the first one more or less states Obama believes in civil union for gays but not marriage. Reason being that marriage is a religious union. The second one is where a gay is bashing Obama, for not standing up for the gays rights for marriage.

[Cliff]

Thanks Rodney!

I think this is consistent with what he has basically said in the debates.  It sounds like the same stance that all the top Democrat candidates take.  I thought they all (Clinton, Obama and Edwards) were against gay marraiges for religious reasons, but were ok with civil unions.

[bocker3]

Cliff the first one more or less states Obama believes in civil union for gays but not marriage. Reason being that marriage is a religious union. The second one is where a gay is bashing Obama, for not standing up for the gays rights for marriage.

But in the US, marriage is NOT simply a religious union.  One can still have a marriage when no religious organization is involved.  The religious union angle is a red herring that consistently gets used allow folks a free pass on denying all the rights and benefits that we all should have.  All of our laws that grant benefits and rights to couples are based on a "marriage".  A "civil union" does not equate to a marriage in the governments eyes.  All of these laws and regulations would need to be amended to include civil unions.  Frankly, I could give a shit what we call it -- so long as gay couples get all the same rights, benefits and responsibilities that a straight marriage has today.

Mike

[wishihadacat]

I'm still very much on the fence. I like Obama - he's certainly bright and earnest, but as the pundits are constantly reminding us, we don't know how good a manager he'll be. It's a serious issue.

Ideally, if America elects him with an enthusiastic margin, Washington will get the message and cooperate. How effective he would be at implementing foreign policy is anyone's guess...

I'm perfectly happy to admit that I am one of those people who wish that Bloomberg would run. He has every qualification, an impeccable record and too much money too be corruptible.

[RapidRod]

Well now you know where Obama stands on the marriage issue for gays. There is not one of the candidates that will go along with gay marriage. You should be thankful for them considering civil unions. Yes we know what they all say when trying to get our votes and when they are in office they do a full 360 reversal.

[wishihadacat]

...when they are in office they do a full 360 reversal.

That's what I like most about Bloomberg. To my knowledge, he's been consistent.

[Dachshund]

That's what I like most about Bloomberg. To my knowledge, he's been consistent.

consistent? democrat to republican to independent

[Dachshund]

I'm still very much on the fence. I like Obama - he's certainly bright and earnest, but as the pundits are constantly reminding us, we don't know how good a manager he'll be. It's a serious issue.

This is where you go wrong by listening to the punditry. Search out and read the objective journalists that still exist. CNN, MSNBC, FOX, are vacuous at best and guided by the cult of personality, usually their own.

Thank God for the internet.

[wishihadacat]

consistent? democrat to republican to independent

Labels don't mean anything to me and they shouldn't mean anything to you.

[Dachshund]

Labels don't mean anything to me and they shouldn't mean anything to you.

consistency should

[Dachshund]

Here's an interesting take on Bloomberg. It might be a moot point as he continues to deny that he will run. It's a good read.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/31/bloomberg/index.html

[wishihadacat]

Changing one's political affiliation is not commensurate with being inconsistent with one's words and actions.

[wishihadacat]

Here's an interesting take on Bloomberg. It might be a moot point as he continues to deny that he will run. It's a good read.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/31/bloomberg/index.html

He has unquestionably been on the hawkish side, which is what you would expect from the mayor of a city that was attacked.  My question for him is what his vision is from now on.

[Miss Philicia]

consistent? democrat to republican to independent

In NYC politics that was all bred from necessity.  He's clearly a Democrat

[DCGUY2007]

I'm just SO excited to see an African American male who is
articulate, educated and inclusive of everyone. I know he may not win the election but
it makes me so proud to see him do so well. Obama
istands for change and inclusion. I am so PROUD to
be an AMERICAN today!!!!  Obama is doing well because
of white people, black people, Latin, young and old. I
just can't tell you how excited I am. I have been so
tired of seeing some African Americans on talk shows who
end up dividing the country. Obama is able to bring up
issues that are of concern to African Americans but
also of concern to everyone in this country. I think I
am also proud because Obama reminds me of my dad who I
still miss a lot. He died 12 years ago. My dad would be so proud of
Obama!!!!

Anyway it is just a great day for EVERYONE!!! I also
like Edwards and Hillary. We just need a Democrat next
time... no matter who it is :-)

[bear60]

Marvin..... I feel the joy! hey did you know that our new mayor (Michael Nutter) here in Philly is very much like Obama...in all the senses that you are talking about...inclusion etc.  We just hope he can overcome a weighty patronage system.

[Dachshund]

I'm just SO excited to see an African American male who is
articulate, educated and inclusive of everyone do so
well yesterday. I know he may not win the election but
it makes me so proud to see him do so well in Iowa. He
is stands for change and inclusion. I am so PROUD to
be an AMERICAN today!!!!  Obama is doing well because
of white people, black people, Latin, young and old. I
just can't tell you how excited I am. I have been so
tired of seeing African Americans on talk shows who
end up dividing the country. Obama is able to bring up
issues that are of concern to African Americans but
also of concern to everyone in this country. I think I
am also proud because Obama reminds me of my dad who I
still miss a lot. He died 12 years ago. My dad would be so proud of
Obama!!!!

Anyway it is just a great day for EVERYONE!!! I also
like Edwards and Hillary. We just need a Democrat next
time... no matter who it is :-)

Marvin

I think this says it all. I think the vote of white Iowans proves that America is desperately ready for a change. It is a great day!

[Cliff]

I'm perfectly happy to admit that I am one of those people who wish that Bloomberg would run. He has every qualification, an impeccable record and too much money too be corruptible.

The question is, who would he take votes from?  If he receives mostly moderate republican support, then that is good news for the Dems (like Ross Perot did, which ended up giving the election to Clinton).  But if he takes votes away from the Democrats, he will be helping the election prospects of Republicans.

I prefer that he stay mayor of NYC.

[wishihadacat]

The question is, who would he take votes from?  If he receives mostly moderate republican support, then that is good news for the Dems (like Ross Perot did, which ended up giving the election to Clinton).  But if he takes votes away from the Democrats, he will be helping the election prospects of Republicans.

I prefer that he stay mayor of NYC.

I wouldn't want him to run as an independent either - I'd want him to run as a Democrat.

[RapidRod]

Obama, is an African American? He's an American that's all.

[DCGUY2007]

Yes Obama is American. He constantly mentions this to help others realize that we are basically all the same. I also agree with an earlier post comments referring to it being interesting to have someone  different in the oval office for a change, whether minority or femaile. Visual images make the best impression. With more diveristy in the White House and in Politics we may have a Gay President soon. But regardless of a persons race, gender or sexual orientation Obama and Clinton are starting to help more Americans see that people are basically all the same. We all want to be happy, have access to health care, and live comfortably.

Obama is also important to me personally because as an African American male I constantly see many images of African American males displayed in a negative way. People start to believe those few negative images and feel they represent all African Americans. So for me it is very refreshing to see someone like Obama who is obviously African American, but doesn't fit the negative stereotypes.

I listened to his book on CD "The Audacity of Hope". I found it very interesting. I need to now buy his first book. Regardless of who wins the election,  I'm just very proud to be an American today. America has come a long way. This is not just because of black people marching in the sixties but also because of many many white people that had a change of heart. There is no place like the U.S.

[RapidRod]

He's an American. His father is African American and his mother is a White American. He is not considered anything other than an American.

[DCGUY2007]

Well when the police  stops anyone that looks like him he is black. And when he looks in the mirror he is black. In fact he looks more black then my own mother. All African Americans are mixed with something. Regardless of race it is still great to see him and others do well 

[Miss Philicia]

Uh, Barack Obama's father was African, not African American.  He came here for university studies, got his PhD and then returned to Kenya.  He was never an American.

Barack Obama identifies an African American so he is in fact one -- it's an identity, not a race.

[Jody]

DC Guy...You make some very valid points, as others in this thread have as well, regarding how far we have come as a people and a nation and that is a good thing indeed.

That being the case, it will still be somewhat difficult, most difficult in fact, for Obama or Clinton to win a general election...Besides the northeast, excluding New Hampshire, and some upper mid western states such as Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin (or maybe only 2 of those) and the Pacific states that leaves the usual other possibilities as I see them- Florida, Ohio, Illinois, Louisiana and New Mexico as swing states...Figure 2 or 3 but if the Dems lose Florida and Ohio it is another fairly close election down the tubes with Repubs puffing their chests like they have a mandate and being able to complete filling the Supreme court with Scalia-like creatures.

Not a pretty sight and one that, if Huckalberry wins, could leave us longing for the days of the Bush men, if that is possible!!!  

Jody

[DCGUY2007]

His Father is African and his mother is a white American. Seems to me that makes him black or African American. He also has to be American or he couldn't run for President. Now whether we call him African American or black I don't think makes a difference. When anyone sees a person that looks like him on the street they see a black man.

Regardless of all this Obama is running for election to represent All Americans. I'm just happy to see so many Americans regardless of race and gender support him. It is great to also see so many Americans support a female "Hillary". I also personally like Edwards. Any of these three candidates would be great as President of the United States  

[DCGUY2007]

Jody,

I don't think that Hillary or Obama will be able to get enough votes to win as President. I personally don't think the country has come that far.  There are still a lot of people that will never vote for a minority or female for President.  Regardless of this it is great to see a  female and black male do well. It shows that more and more people will support a candidate regardless of their gender or race. Things are changing. Hopefully we can go beyond this and also have a candidate that is Gay.

[RapidRod]

I don't believe Hillary would have gotten this far if it weren't for Bill.

[Jeffreyj]

I love this shit....Only in America.

Huckabee won't win another state. Trust me.


Obama....I would not bet against this guy. That victory speech was one of the best I've ever heard.

He can easily win in NH...

Hillary: How did it feel getting hit by that freight train last night???


Can't wait for tomorrow's debate!