Stupid and Tremendously Scared!

[thomasB]

Hey all.  I've read a ton lately and I seem to find myself, my recent activity, falling into a "very low risk" to "no risk" category.  I am very upset and feel like I contracted HIV.

Went to Chinese massage parlor on East Coast and had a regular 40 min massage.  The lady was fully clothed and only used her hands with oil/lotion to massage me.  Afterwards, she used the same oil/lotion and gave me a 1-2 min handjob.  I did not touch her or penetrate her in any way.  Nada.  No kissing, no anal/vaginal/oral.

Now, I am freaking out that I may have been infected with HIV and brought it home to my wife.

I see "essentially no risk" to "no risk" but the possibility of being infected is giving me panic attacks.  I had no sores that I could see or open cuts/wounds.  I did not inspect her hands but after 30-40 min body massage I think I would have seen blood on me somewhere.  The only "sexual" contact was her hands on the shaft of my penis with the oil. 

Was I at risk of getting HIV?

Is it safe to have unprotected sex with my wife?

I had an ELISA at 4 and 6 weeks (40 days).  Both negative.  What are the chances it will show up positive if I test at 8, 10, or 12?  Am I going to be the first case of HIV from a handjob?  I posted this same question on medhelp but the follow-up comments seem to have dried up.

Seems that most credible websites say "mutual masturbation/handjobs" are low risk, while some say no risk.  So I am confused and depressed.

Thanks for the help.

Tom B

[Andy Velez]

Fortunately feelings aren't facts. And whatever you "feel" about being infected is baloney. You wasted your money by getting tested. Absolutely nothing you are reporting would have put you at risk for HIV transmission. The only confirmed risks sexually for HIV transmission are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse.

What you are feeling is a lot of guilt. You're a dawg like a lot of us guys and you went straying a bit. You can't undo that. Take a breath and let it go, bud.

Yes, you can have unprotected sex with your wife. And no, you don't need to do anymore HIV testing.
Just get on with your life. Really.

Cheers.

[thomasB]

Mr. Velez,

You've got to be the most level headed moderator in any of these forums.  Thank you for your time and insight on an incident that had/has me truly upset.  Being infected by my own actions is one thing, but my wife is an innocent in all of this and does not deserve for her trust and life to be violated in such a manner.  Guilt?  For sure.  Fear? Over the top.

I am not going to bombard you with "what if's" or the like, but hopefully I can ask a last question or two, if you don't mind.

1)  Such an incident like mine, if HIV were contracted, would be a first?  Yes?  Because they stick kissing and frottage in the same risk categories as mutual masturbation.  What does low risk really mean?

2)  In my current state of thinking, the only way I can see being infected with HIV is if she had some open, bleeding cut on her hand and during the ending with the lube it trickled into my "pee hole."  Would it have to be a substantial quantity of blood and/or does a scenario like that change your thoughts on the risk?

3)  If there was a risk, a legitimate one (which I am told over and over it was not), would a 4 and 6 week negative be pointing me in the right direction?  I know 3 months is conclusive but 6 weeks is in the 90% range for the all-clear?

Thanks again for taking your time and helping so many of us anxious people. 

T

[Ann]

Thomas,

1 - Yes, you'd be the first.

2 - No. You haven't had a risk.

3 - You haven't had a risk. Even if you did, I would not expect your result to change.

Get real. This is all about guilt and nothing to do with actual hiv transmission.

Ann

[thomasB]

Well, the situation became even more tense as we just learned that my wife is pregnant.  Great news but the exposure scare is not helping.

The only risk or possible route for infection would be if she had fresh blood on her hands.  Would it have to be a LOT of blood or is this still no risk?

Thanks,

T

[Ann]

Thomas,

Your wife's pregnancy does NOT change the fact that YOU HAD NO RISK.

This is all about feeling guilty that a woman other than your wife touched you and nothing to do with risks for hiv infection. Throw the guilt overboard.

You did NOT have a risk for hiv infection and your wife's pregnancy does NOT change that fact.

Ann

[thomasB]

Thanks Ann. 

I am just quite fearful and afraid of having put myself at risk, and in turn, passing HIV along to my wife.  The guilt of the handjob is long gone, but I just can't believe I could be so stupid as to run such a risk and hurt an innocent person, especially a loved one. 

This is ALL about fear - maybe not logical or rationale fear - but piles and piles of tossing and turning and sweating and vomiting stemming from the fear and anxiety of possibly catching HIV - all because of my selfish actions and not some accident.

I've seen similar emotions posted on here, the ones about "going to be the first" for being infected from a handjob.  Am I doomed to be the exception to the rule?  The medical case study?  Three doctors, specializing in this disease, have told me I had no risk.  The excellent and expert moderators here tell me the same thing.  But as Andy noted, feelings crush logic and HIV science-history.

The only symptom I've had is a sore throat from time to time for the past few weeks, and that is enough to convince the mind that an infection did occur.

So, I wandered back into a lab today for another test - this time 9 weeks.  I get the results tomorrow afternoon and I was hoping for some good karmic thoughts from the moderators that their advice and assessment will be as they've always said.

Going mad with fear,

Tom

[Andy Velez]

There's no reason to expect other than another negative test result.

Guilt is a whole other issue. It's no sign of your higher character that you are torturing yourself with remorse. You did what you did. You're just another dawg like a lot of us here. You can't undo that bit of your personal history. What you need to do is to take a breath, let it go and get on with your life. That is the most loving thing you can do for all concerned including your wife and the baby you're expecting.

Cheers. 

[thomasB]

You are very right Andy about the family thing.  Being so stressed about this issue has drained much emotion and energy that should have been spent focused on my wife.  We actually talked about this very subject last night.  Emotionally and mentally, she wants my old self back, as she too recognizes the damage this has done to our relationship beyond the act that got me here in the first place. 

I know your "no risk" assessments are based on years of dealing with this issue, but it just seems like such a real risk to me. 

Anyway, the 60-day ELISA came back negative, as you predicted.  Just shy of nine weeks.  If a true exposure were to happen, does anyone know the stats on seroconversion between 9 and 12?  Am I truly in the clear?

With a no risk assessment from so many experts, with a handjob not on any "known risk" HIV chart, no cases of HIV from handjobs ever reported, and a nine week negative HIV test, it seems time to drop this baggage and move on.  (Never forgetting this experience and learning from it of course)

Thanks a zillion for assisting us folks with these issues.

Tom

[Ann]

Tom,

Your negative result is NOT going to change as you did NOT have a risk. YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV!!!

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Please consider yourself warned.

Ann

[thomasB]

Stress levels still remain high since my wife had to have her standard prenatal blood work, which includes an HIV test.  We get those results on Monday.  Multiple pregnancies is a cause for false-positives so if we hear she is HIV poz on Monday I am going to lose it.

Trying to make myself feel better I played the numbers game.  I took the sensitivity of ELISA at 6 weeks - which is said to be 95%.  I took one at 8 1/2 weeks so my odds should be better, but for this exercise I kept it conservative.   Although I only had a handjob (said to be zero risk) I grabbed the oral sex odds, which are said to be 1 in 10,000  (and Yes, even on poz.com they say oral sex is a risk)

So, then I moved the 95% 6 week standard and dropped it to 90%.

10/100 multiplied by 1/10,000 gives me a 1/100,000 chance of HIV risk.  Again, all numbers being on the very conservative side.

All things being equal, 8 1/2 week neg elisa is a very good sign, yes?   Ok, no more post from me

Thank you for not yelling at me  - I am just very scared.

Tom

[Ann]

Thomas,

Your numbers are hogwash. Why? Because you did NOT have a risk and your results are 100% conclusive. You do NOT have hiv.

If your wife gets a false positive hiv result, it will be ruled out with a Western Blot test. Any OB doc who does routine hiv testing during pregnancy will know this and probably won't even mention an hiv test that has been proven to be a false positive. And unless your wife was already hiv postiive, she's not going to test positive because you don't have hiv and you can't give her something you don't have.

One more frantic post from you about this no risk/conclusive negative situation and you WILL be given a time out.

This is your last warning!

Ann

[thomasB]

Thanks again Ann.  Doc said all of her blood work came back normal. 

Tom

[Andy Velez]

HIV is not an issue for you. You cannot pass on what you don't have. Get on with  your life and cut out all this unnecessary drama. Life will provide drama enough for you without you drumming up this unnecessary stuff.