POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: milker on June 16, 2007, 11:50:57 pm
-
So how did you get infected?
-
My ex shared the wealth with me after lying about his test results (even showed me negative papers).
-
Let's see... it could have been Doug Stiles (sp?), a Venezuelan hustler (no, I didn't pay) or the Dominican on the piece of foam rubber.
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhhxfC-lms
-
Bad weekend, long night, good time, rough consequences, doesn't matter.
-
Well... i was involved in several risky situations during several years, with people i though would be safe.. but i think (has no prove) i got infected by somoene i loved.
There is a guy i know since over 2.5 years ago, i really like him since the first time we met, we dated and all that. Sex is always great with him, but he always wanted to do it unprotected... even if i had condoms nearby, anyways... i never really forced the condom thing i was just happy getting laid with him.
It happens he does not love me (he has already told me so), but i do like him lot, so if i am not wrong by october/november last year we had sex... great fuck... and it was the first time he cummed in me, off course no protection. Then i lost contact with him for several months until march 07 when i told him i was feeling bad and i would get tested... well... i got the results following day and that night... he told me he was diagnosed hiv+ by december 06. About month after our last sexual relationship.
Nowadays we still talk, and are good friends i am a support for him because i know he is a good guy.... and well..... i like him a lot yet. He does not feel the same... we keep on having sex from time to time, with protection now, he is on meds i am not. Well.... that was how the sad thing begun...
Juan Carlos
-
Oh thanks Milkie, the WWs are gonna love this one. ::)
Sheesh.
What the hell does it matter?
-
Probably those aliens that keep abducting me. What a nuisance. ;)
Well if you must know I was a bit tipsy and had a brief but enjoyable uninhibited encounter with someone of unknown status. Stupidest thing I ever did in my life. I was a gullible young man.
Did you realise that when you have sex with someone you are also having sex with every person they ever had sex with and everyone those ones did too?
It’s bloody mind-boggling!
Daniel
-
milkie, there's already a thread on these matters (and probably many more): ;)
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=7984
-
Milker, I'm wondering what purpose you had in mind in starting this thread.
-
To end this misery I think we should have a how did you get it and now that you got it should you disclose forum.
-
To end this misery I think we should have a how did you get it and now that you got it should you disclose forum.
Actually Mr Hal, wouldn't that be 2 forums? ;D Oh, I see....
And in all honesty, hasn't this topic been beaten to death yet in other threads?
Milker honey, use the search function...
Miss Melia
-
Milker,
I agree with the others.
You expect us to answer time and time again what is essentially the same tortured question. I think we have a right to ask you, what is your purpose?
MtD
-
I think we have a right to ask you, what is your purpose?
The frenchie just likes starting threads and polls so that he can see his name in the "author" column.
-
Sorry I didn't mean to offend, I actually did think there was another thread before, but I couldn't find it.
Feel free to lock it.
Milker
-
Hey, come on... dont be so hard on him...
Frenchies always like to talk about something :)
As for me, i don't mind... in fact i have always asked myself same question about some people here.... so it is fine.
Plus, i know people will ask me about it for the rest of my life so, one more interview.... does not matter to me ;)
Juan Carlos
-
Oh thanks Milkie, the WWs are gonna love this one. ::)
Sheesh.
What the hell does it matter?
Chill Ann we need a little humor here in the Living With Forums. :-*
Since we are also adding new Content on the Foums. "Why not We Are All POZ Deal With It".
Seems like every three months we are adding some new area to the forums and keeping more people that are living with the virus away from the site.
-
Chill Ann we need a little humor here in the Living With Forums. :-*
Whats so humourous about finding out, or disclosing how we became infected. I don't find it humorous
Ray
-
WW's?
-
Whats so humourous about finding out, or disclosing how we became infected. I don't find it humorous
I agree. What is the intention of this poll?
JP
-
Well... i guess the idea of the threat was to answer one of the first questions i have everytime i meet another poz... how did you get it?
I think he expected we could have some more humour sense on how to deal with something people will ask all the time. Plus, i am sorry we are going to react like that everytime people ask us about this, i though we would have already gotten over the issue.... anyways. I guess... if anyone does not like the question, then don't answer it. I am ok with someone asking because i know i would like to ask others about it.
cheer up
Juan Carlos
-
I don't have any issue in wanting to know how most got infected but I do think that this information should come about through the process of getting to know everyone and their stories rather than as a generic checklist.
I do wonder though about the pile on to you starting this thread.
If we believe that there is no innocence or guilt in how we are each infected, than outside of my opening point, what is the issue of such information being out there?
-
I got mine via Immaculate Infection! ::) It honesty does not bother me telling how I got it. If others that visit this site can learn from my mistake unprotected anal sex then I am all for it. Oops, that last sentence just screwed up my Immaculate Infection theory! :P
-
Iggy read again... i didn't start the thread.... don't lose the point.
Juan Carlos
(who notice everytime things chime up, people forget who starts the threads or who says what)
-
If you follow the ignore the thread if you don't like it logic...then you should ignore a person who questions a topic and then there will be no topics and we can all go home. The last person to leave please turn off the lights.
Outside of healthcare providers and aidsmeds I have never, ever had a positive person ask me how I became infected.
AD
-
Iggy read again... i didn't start the thread.... don't lose the point.
Juan Carlos
(who notice everytime things chime up, people forget who starts the threads or who says what)
huh?
-
---Melia senses handbags at dawn in the air---
I think most peoples objection might be that this question has been raised many times here and with a not so difficult click of the search button and a bit of searching, the thread initiator could have found the answer to his question from a lot of folk who've already answered it and bumped an old thread for new folk to participate in too.
Although saying that, I think Jerry's response about humour might be because the last thread that was started on this topic was a myriad of responses, some serious and some rather giggle-inducing.
Melia
(who's initial response to this question is now always: From a Kinder Surprise egg :))
*edited to clarify to one clueless New Yorker who thought I meant a 'more kind' egg ::)
-
I think most peoples objection might be that this question has been raised many times here and with a not so difficult click of the search button and a bit of searching, the thread initiator could have found the answer to his question from a lot of folk who've already answered it and bumped an old thread for new folk to participate in too.
Agreed and well put.
-
Iggy sorry for the missunderstanding :)
Juan Carlos
(feeling happy today while he sees how the simple things in life become more and more complex)
-
The author of this thread (yours truly) did search for "how infected" and that didn't give much, I should have searched a bit better, I agree.
Why ask, you ask?
I was wondering what was the state of mind of people when they got infected, that is, drunk, high, or simply having enough of condoms, or what else. Although I did think I saw a similar thread before, I thought I dreamed it since I couldn't find it with my shitty search.
As usual, most of my initial threads are badly written, do not explain what I'm asking, and that creates controversy. I agree that using a poll was not a good idea, and maybe without the poll this thread would have been accepted. But at this point, those who think it's an interesting question will gladly reply, those who think it's a private matter will not. No need to get fussy, raise hands screaming about this, just hit the ignore or back button and you will be fine :)
As how I got infected, I'm actually less sure that it was a particular night when I was drunk, because I have since discovered that lots of my previous tricks are actually positive, and they didn't tell me, so the actual date is not set in stone anymore. So if I wasn't drunk it was due to the desperation of having to use condoms all my life. I replaced it with the desperation of having to test all my life and taking meds all my life. Yup, great state of mind.. ::)
Milker.
-
I got my HIV from a McDonalds cheseburger.
~Morton Salt
"im king of all salts
-
My ex shared the wealth with me after lying about his test results (even showed me negative papers).
My ex, who is dead, did the same. Failed to tell me he was posiive, not negative. Guess he could not spell??? Anyway I've survived him by 8 years so far and life is better without him for me.
-
The last person to leave please turn off the lights.
That will most likely be either you or me.
-
That will most likely be either you or me.
Or Me!!!!!
Juan Carlos :)
-
give milker a break guys, he just tested pos and it is completely normal to play over and over how did i get it, who is to blame, the denial, anger, bargaining
i think it falls into denial and bargaining - it is the minds way of taking the guilt and blame off one self to see that and how others made a similar mistake
i know can i went thru that phase 9 mo ago, it is easy to forget the confusion of the first year
the important thing is that everyone makes mistakes, you made a few and one unlucky one but you are not alone in making a bad decision and forgive yourself... how by taking active steps to help others and go to some poz social events and being kind and friendly to guys
btw milker if you use the same profile name here and other places it compromises your anonimity not sure if you care or not
-
Milker you made the right choice to start a poll. It is your business if you want to start a POLL. If others don't want to partake in it then don't.
By the way I was infective back in 2004 due to unprotective sex. To many time going to the bars and getting drunk and finding myself in bed with some guy and forgetting to use protection.
Frankly I hate using condoms.
-
btw milker if you use the same profile name here and other places it compromises your anonimity not sure if you care or not
um...if there's one person here that would understand the potential windows for lost anonymity, it's our milker.
trust me on that one.
-
Well there are worse things that our milkie could be doing, like bashing gay parades, or starting another disclosure thread, and JC, Jonathan just posted on the blogs not too long ago. Hurry and go post another verbose example of cheerfullness. Afterall, we know how much you like to be on top.
CA
-
Well there are worse things that our milkie could be doing, like bashing gay parades, or starting another disclosure thread, and JC, Jonathan just posted on the blogs not too long ago. Hurry and go post another verbose example of cheerfullness. Afterall, we know how much you like to be on top.
CA
Well, i think God gave us eyes to read or not read what we like or don't. Guys... you gotta use that right.
I like milker's posts because he is only trying to contribute, perhaps others should start threads too.... Carolann??? i am sure you may also have any verbose example of cheerfullness to share with us too :P. Go ahead and post something... i am curious to know what you have to tell us...:P. Kisses, have a good day
Juan Carlos :D
-
suddenly there are a lot of personal agendas surfacing here
-
Juan Carlos is glad of not having personal agendas with any virtual person on earth/cyber space... although he is always courious to get to know others. There should be a reason why some people speak/write the way they do.
Juan Carlos is willing to learn.
Att.
Juan Carlos :)
-
God did not give me anything, not even AIDS. All I am saying is that a particular poster enjoys posting about the same things, and granted he did stop posting disclosure threads. Anyhow, you being the mother hen and telling people to lighten up is wearing thin. Let people express what they want. If you noticed, some people answered the question just fine, without trying to defend anyone. I don\\\'t know why duplicate threads are discouraged, but they are. I think if someone wants to know how some of us got to join the club, they can research it or maybe try the pm button. I don\\\'t think I need to know how everyone got it. I think we all have an idea what the main route is and the factors that take us there. I think the I just tested positve forum is full of this wealth of information. I agree that this bit of information makes no difference in how I feel about anyone on this forum. We are all here now, the mode of infection may be interesting to some, but the most crucial for those involved now is how to live with this.
CA
-
And we know noone here has an Agenda, especially Philly, who is never bitchy or short with anyone. Once again, the pot calling the kettle...
CA
-
Let people express what they want.
I agree with Carolann! No point in being coy!
-
If I don't want to read a post, I won't. The title of this thread is pretty clear as to the content. If you're not comfortable talking about how you got infected.... don't. Click 'Back' in your browser and read something that interests you. I can bitch about what's on a particular channel on TV but continue to watch it, or I can change the channel and find something I like. BTW, I got the 'bug' from buttfucking.
David
-
]
No point in being coy!
Once again, the pot calling the kettle... oh koi one!
-
Unless a thread is locked or deleted everyone has the right to read or not read, comment or not comment, sing, dance, laugh, tell or not tell, make up stuff, etc, etc, etc, etc, that's just the way it works folks and that ain't changing.
People tell me I shouldn't but I notice them rubber-necking an accident just like me.
-
]
... oh koi one!
Koi?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
CarolAnn,
it is your right to disagree with my posts, but saying that i'm "bashing" gay parades is untrue, I repeated what bothers me in the current parades, I'm the last one to "bash" other gay people, and also the last one to "bash" members of this forum, unless there is something tangible to "bash" about.
Bim, you must have seen my profile on another site. Like thunter said, it's a calculated risk :)
Milker.
-
So how did you get infected?
None of your business ;)
-
None of your business ;)
I bet you were the one choosing "others" option in the poll. LOL :D
Juan Carlos
(happy of living in a free world)
-
With apologies to Smith Barney... I earned it.
Have the best day
Michael
-
perhaps others should start threads too.... Carolann??? i am sure you may also have any verbose example of cheerfullness to share with us too :P. Go ahead and post something... i am curious to know what you have to tell us...:P. Kisses, have a good day
Juan Carlos :D
Yeah Carolann where are your threads. Have never seen anything written on here but just when you joined back in April of this year. Also have noticed you have a lot of nerve to come on here and start stuff with people that have been on the forums for quite some time.
-
Ok guys
It's time to stop calling each other out on this.
Personally I don't get involved with posts like this..but that's my choice...and we All have that choice...so if you want to answer the question then go ahead..if not then don't...it's as simple as that...just keep things on track.
Have a nice day and hugs
Jan
-
I got mine from the television.. I think it was on free to air TV.
Nope.. just checked.. I got it because I didnt care about myself very much and was having rampant unprotected sex with anyone and everyone. You reap what you sew.
-
As I tell all medical professionals who ask this idiotic question,"take a wild fucking guess".
-
This is the exact way I got it!!!
" wild fucking ".
-
This is the exact way I got it!!! .........wild fucking.......
Ha! I just had to take the poll to see the "results" -- over 1 in 8 contracting HIV through oral sex suggests an amazing concentration of such incidents...
As for me, I've always assumed I got it "the old-fashioned way" from a buggy load up my ass before we were told to use condoms. The specific source being a very hot Nordic guy in his mid-thirties who gave me syphilis at 17, along with the greatest orgasm and biggest cock I had had up to that time. ...hehehe... I'm spotting just thinking about him.. ;D.... Night sweats and persistent swollen glands set in a few weeks later, after the shot in the glutes and a stern motherly lecture from the then-66 year-old RN at student health services.
Then again, maybe it was one of the blood transfusions I had in Dallas within the year or two before that event, but they don't line up with the apparent "seroconversion illness." Dammit! Then I could have labelled myself an "innocent victim." Dammit! Dammit!
-
i got mine while getting a tattoo , back in the eightys , what a decade!
what a bunch of nit picken bitches !!!!
question every thing ! you just might get the right answer !
i thought this was a site for open discussion, & things that matters ! (info, how others handle things, & so on)
so what if some one starts a topic , it's there choice . if you don't like it go some wheres else !!!
-
I bet you were the one choosing "others" option in the poll. LOL :D
Juan Carlos
(happy of living in a free world)
No I didnt take the poll, I took the Fifth. :-*
-
Ha! I just had to take the poll to see the "results" -- over 1 in 8 contracting HIV through oral sex suggests an amazing concentration of such incidents...
It's interesting isn't it? The science doesn't support it. There aren't any documented cases but lo and behold they're all here in our very own forums.
MtD
/edited for an just awoken typo/
-
Mine came in a Happy Meal. I was SO excited!
-
I got mine by male order...
-
Maybe an organ transplant or a stickadicktomy. Who knows and who cares. I'm just being treated for it.
-
I got mine from a toilet seat in a Christian camp
-
I wonder if anybody was infected by an Immaculate Erection?
-
if i could relive the 80's i wouldnt
-
I got mine by male order...
POST OF THE YEAR NOMINEE!
-
I got mine from a toilet seat in a Christian camp
That's a good one, Puck! Can I share some of mine with you?
-
Mine came in a Happy Meal. I was SO excited!
Ha! Amazing that since posting yesterday I've had vivid, full-body recall of my "suspect encounter." The way Lars rimmed me while I deep-throated, it's difficult to see who had the Happy Meal! The texture of his moderate blond fur has felt very real and presentbetween my fingers, on my lips, and grinding into my back. I've gotten myself off three times already this morning, just dwelling in the experience.
I'd do the Eighties again, sure. This time, no sickness and death, no drugs and STDs, no hustling (can I still keep the money?) and no partner violence, though. The music was better, the men hotter, and my butt was perkier
Cheers,
David
-
I got mine by male order...
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-
Ha! Amazing that since posting yesterday I've had vivid, full-body recall of my "suspect encounter." The way Lars rimmed me while I deep-throated, it's difficult to see who had the Happy Meal! The texture of his moderate blond fur has felt very real and presentbetween my fingers, on my lips, and grinding into my back. I've gotten myself off three times already this morning, just dwelling in the experience.
For some reason it took me a good minute to figure out how you were rimmed while deep-throating ??? Am I forgetting sex already ???
Milker.
-
Here we go again. Science is not a poll or questionnaire. Science is rigorous testing and trial. Asking 200 or 2000 people to go home and have no oral sex and then come back for hiv testing in a year is not science, it is worse than pure fiction. It is no different and no more reliable than the telephone polls or newspapers polls on other subjects. It would only be science if participants were in a controlled environment that recorded all sexual activity. Thats science,everything else is just conjecture,consensus,and speculation. I dont mind people saying there is a general consensus among hivers that you cant get hiv from performing oral sex and swallowing cum. I do mind people saying it is based on science. Its just not true.
-
I dont mind people saying there is a general consensus among hivers that you cant get hiv from performing oral sex and swallowing cum. I do mind people saying it is based on science. Its just not true.
But Jack, dear, it is based on science - including the studies you've just discredited. It's also based on what we know about the science of transmission on the cellular level.
Ann
-
I haven't discredited any studies. I just said they aren't science. They are results from questionaires. That isnt science. There are no controls. To have a truly scientific study on the matter you would have to monitor people 24/7. I dont believe that is being done.
I guess I get sorta of pissed cause I know how I got this virus,yet I have people telling me it is scientifically impossible based on how the virus acts in a test tube or from group studies via questionaires with no controls.
It reminds me of my Drs. when they told me my hump was not from the drugs, or the reason my VL wasnt going up was because I wasnt following the regimen. Bullshit.
Studies may show that HIV is not transmitted orally but those studies are not scientific in any form or manner until you can prove participants are or arent using safe sex, and what kind of sex they are having. You just dont take a persons word for it and call it science.
-
Jack - science takes many forms, including epidemiological study (the questionaire type of methods you are speaking of) as well as laboratory research. Each are considered to be scientific and are used to answer different aspects of questions and each has its own set of limitations.
You are correct in the sense that sometimes what occurs in a lab does not translate to what occurs in the body but to call one science and other not is not correct.
JP (who is a biological scientist and works extensively with epidemiology on a daily basis)
PS - many epidemiological studies are well controlled and/or the analysis of the data also well controlled in order to make the appropriate conclusions. It may not always be obvious until you look deeper into the studies.
-
Studies may show that HIV is not transmitted orally but those studies are not scientific in any form or manner until you can prove participants are or arent using safe sex, and what kind of sex they are having. You just dont take a persons word for it and call it science.
WHAT????!!!! You're contradicting yourself within this post and in the context of your other posts.
David
-
I was in a monogamous relationship for 5 years... after 4 hiv test...in a time period of two years with each of us testing neg.... why play safe? Well I'll tell you why... my ex with the big dick was dipping all over town... while I was monogamous... he left me with a lifelong gift... I was bitter for a long time... now he's with full blown aids... broke... living in NYC... asking for money... from family, friends and even myself... While I'm living an extremely comfortable existence... thru inheritance and finally I think I've met the man of my dreams... I'll see how this goes... still counting coins but, what is money without someone you love to share with... the one I'm seeing is a keeper... wish me luck!
-
Jack,
I'm not talking about what happens in test tubes. I'm talking about the fact that hiv can only latch onto and infect a few very specific cell types and these cell types are rather scare in the oral cavity. They may not be totally absent, but hiv has little chance of bumping into these few cells while intact and able to infect. Hiv is very fragile and there are over a dozen different proteins and enzymes present in saliva that render hiv unable to infect.
The studies you reference didn't involve one-off questionnaires given to just any-old-body. The participants were carefully screened and followed for as many as ten years in some instances. You make it sound like a questionnaire taken on some street-corner or local charity table in some mall.
You may well have been the rare unlucky person who blew someone with an off-the-chart viral load while you had a throat/tonsil infection. But outside that sort of scenario, it just isn't likely to happen.
Ann
-
I got mine from unprotected anal sex of which I still participate in and enjoy!
-
Whatever. I have HIV. I know how I got it. I still dont think you can call a test scientific unless you know for sure that participants arent practicing safe sex. I remember a trial for an HIV vaccine several years ago in Thailand,where the results were judged rubbish because of controls similar to these blow job studies I have read about here. The problem is you dont know what people are doing in private. There is no way to prove they are having oral sex or if they are and using condoms unless you are watching them. I dont understand what screening or staying in touch has to with what I am talking about.
I also wonder about the ethics of promoting a trial that puts negs with positives and tells them to fuck and suck away with no protection. I guess the ends justifies the means,not because they got the results they wanted, but because in some quarters this is apparently defined as science.
I guess the only trial or study I would consider science,given my experience and resulting condition, is a trial where you had negs performing oral on positives and some one would have to verify it. Then you would also have to worry about these same neg people having unprotected sex with people outside of the study and contacting hiv. There are so many ways to corrupt the results it isnt even worth talking about without someone spending every waking hour watching the participants. I guess you could round everyone up once a week in a big room and have everyone suck away to make sure they are doing it and not using protection.
-
Amazingly a topic discussed at United Churches of Christ throughout the nation on June 7, 2007. Naw, naw, we don't think milker is God nor do we believe that his posts are the infallible Word of God. Rather, read the rest of the story:
Focus Scripture
Luke 7:36-8:3
One of the Pharisees asked Jesus to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house and took his place at the table. And a woman in the city, who was a sinner, having learned that he was eating in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster jar of ointment. She stood behind him at his feet, weeping, and began to bathe his feet with her tears and to dry them with her hair. Then she continued kissing his feet and anointing them with the ointment.
Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw it, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what kind of woman this is who is touching him—that she is a sinner."
Jesus spoke up and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." "Teacher," he replied, "speak." "A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debts for both of them. Now which of them will love him more?" Simon answered, "I suppose the one for whom he cancelled the greater debt." And Jesus said to him, "You have judged rightly."
Then turning towards the woman, he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has bathed my feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore, I tell you, her sins, which were many, have been forgiven; hence she has shown great love. But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little." Then he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." But those who were at the table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Soon afterwards he went on through cities and villages, proclaiming and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. The twelve were with him, as well as some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, and Joanna, the wife of Herod's steward Chuza, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their resources.
Focus Meditation
by Kate Huey
It's very common these days, not just in church but in society in general, to hear the phrase, "We're all sinners." Usually it's in connection with the struggle of the churches to deal with accepting or not accepting gay folks, but it could also apply to, say, divorced and remarried people (which used to be much more scandalous than it is now) or people who have been in prison (their sentence is never really over in the minds of some folks) or people who are living with HIV/AIDS (we tend to judge people for how they got sick). In any case, we still think there is a double standard of "sinnerhood," if you will: there are sinners, and then there are sinners.
In other words, in this story, the woman who washes Jesus' feet out of extravagant gratitude and love is a notorious sinner in the town. She's really a "sinner with a capital S." Simon the religious leader may be a sinner because "we're all sinners," but that's different. His status as a sinner doesn't make him unworthy (in his own eyes or presumably, in the eyes of Jesus) to have Jesus as a guest, along with certain other preferred guests, and it certainly doesn't put him above judging the intruder and even judging Jesus himself. He finds a judgment on Jesus in the scene before him. He's not moved or touched by the woman's love and tenderness, and he's not impressed by Jesus' lack of discernment and, if you will, taste. In fact, he's so busy judging that he forgets to take care of the basics of hospitality himself, so it's ironic that the man with all the resources at his command (we can almost picture the setting in his comfortable home) doesn't use them for the sake of his guest, and then he turns a blind eye to the grace of a lowly woman entering uninvited into his little party. If Jesus used the term "debts" to speak of the relief of being forgiven (and how many of us wouldn't love to be forgiven all our debts, financial and otherwise?), it's as if this man Simon hasn't gone online lately to check his credit card balance and doesn't know just how deep he's in trouble.
Of course, the real twist can be for us, reading the text today. We love the intruder woman and want to identify with her, right? Sometimes it's hard to find the character we connect with most closely in a story from the Bible. In the prodigal son story, for example, when we take the side of the older brother who's been working hard and doing the right thing all along and has a right to feel outrage at a party being thrown for his good-for-nothing brother, we forget that we probably resemble the prodigal son much more than the righteous older brother. But in this story and in the church and in our society, we may find ourselves behaving more like the Pharisee than the open-hearted woman returning in gratitude, even though we find ourselves judging him in our own hearts. Ironically, it's the woman in this story who has both power and freedom: she does what she wants to do, from the bottom of her heart, and she is free of worry about what people think or the propriety of her actions. Rebecca J. Kruger Gaudino sees in the woman's humility an awareness of God's presence that we might all strive to achieve: "From this foundational principle that reorients our lives from self to divine Presence, all the other principles flow: how we bear ourselves, how we speak, how we live in community, and to what degree we may reveal ourselves to others. In all things, we live out of the humility that comes in recognizing God's presence among us" (New Proclamation Year C 2007).
Simon, unfortunately, wasn't in tune with God's presence in the midst of his party, in the grace experienced by this woman forgiven, the wisdom and tender love of Jesus, who understood and was deeply touched by her gratitude, and his own need for God's mercy and understanding, which were available to him in the person of Jesus, right there before his eyes. Instead, his eyes were clouded by judgment and misjudgment,and he missed a golden opportunity for grace. So where do we stand, in this story? And with whom do we stand? Are we missing something as we work hard to draw lines and pass judgment? What about our hospitality? Are there lines drawn there, or is everyone really, truly welcome, even if they upset the schedule and didn't make it onto the guest list? Are we so busy with the tasks of hospitality (making coffee, setting things up) that we forget the heart of hospitality, and neglect to look at each person, where they are, recognize them as a child of God (even if they are a "fellow sinner") and extend a warm and heartfelt welcome to them?
This passage is also a powerful text about giving, in more than one way. The concluding verses, which really open the next section of the Gospel, have a short but illustrative description of the missionary travels of Jesus and "the twelve," along with "some women," and including "many others, who provided for them out of their resources." Faithful support of mission is evident in the earliest accounts of the church. However, the extravagance of the grateful woman, the known "sinner," is just as much an example to us as the quietly faithful followers who supported Jesus' ministry.
When have you given extravagantly, without thought of cost or "prudence," or of what others might think? How might we see generosity – including our giving to God's mission through the church – as abundantly, extravagantly, freely exercised, springing irresistibly from a profound inner need to express what we feel in response to God’s mercy and goodness in our lives? Do you have that kind of gratitude and awareness of God's movement in your life? Why or why not? How is the church called to nurture this sense, this response, to all that God is doing in our individual and collective lives?
-
I'd do the Eighties again, sure. This time, no sickness and death, no drugs and STDs, no hustling (can I still keep the money?) and no partner violence, though. The music was better, the men hotter, and my butt was perkier
Aside from the fact that I've never had much of an ass, I'll agree with this in its entirety.
And, as I've stated many many many many times before, I was most probably infected before condoms were proposed, having begun my sexual career at the age of 17 in 1977. I bottomed throughout my teens and fucked like a cage of Bonobo monkies after that. By 1992 I'd stopped counting my losses at 60 dead.
Occasionally I get into the torturous mindfuck of which one infected me/which one did I infect? This is a dead-end road that leads nowhere and is generally the result of one too many cocktails and/or the use of cannabis.
Brent
(Who thinks this thread went marvelously evil for a spell)