POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: woodshere on May 30, 2007, 11:30:41 am
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So I was on line late yesterday afternoon and this guy hits me up saying I look familiar. I immediately recognize him as someone I sucked off several times 12 years or so ago. (In spite to many partners to keep count of, I never forget the good ones) We play the cat and mouse game and then I finally tell him how we "know" each other and he said, "Yeah, I knew those lips looked familiar. They really were good." (either he gets few BJs or I am remarkable, I prefer to think the later) In the course of the conversation I tell him I found out I was poz last year. After the oh i am sorry & how you doing crap and me telling him our escapades while virtually harmless to him occurred long before I was infected he asks, "Well if a guy is negative do you let him fuck you bb". I told him my basic view - bb with other poz guys, I'll suck a neg guy no condom and as for his question I have never had to deal with it so I wasn't sure. Finally surprise of all surprises he asks me over for a repeat performance. I gave him another memorable BJ and went on my way.
Although we didn't fuck, I am sure the opportunity with someone will present itself for me as a poz btm to be topped bb by a neg top. In my state legally I have met all my obligations by informing him of my status and it is his choice as to what he wants to do. Knowing the the odds of him contracting HIV from me are slim to none and I fulfilled my legal obligations I should have no problems with a bareback free for all. However, why do I have an uneasy feeling? My brain knows the risk is very low for him, but my heart says that even if he wants to bb, I should not allow him, out of a concern for his well being no matter how slight the risk is to him. But then I think, I have done what I am supposed to do, he knows the risk, it his decision. I believe 100% that we all must take some sort of personal responsibility for our actions. In my gut I know what i will do. At least I'll be free from sexual tension in dealing with my emotions on the issue.
Woods
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Let me get this out of the way first..... and why haven't I gotten one of those BJs? ;D
Now, here's my take on the scenario you provided and your thoughts on it...
1. Who says the guy is REALLY HIV-negative? Over 20 years after ELISA was introduced, we still have people who kid themselves into believing that a test done once is good for life. Or that results reflect a true picture as of the test date. Or that fucking raw with innumerable "neg-UB2" partners following a test is going to maintain the result. As far as I am concerned, any man who wants to put his cock up my ass has a drug-resistant overgrowth of virus, so he's going to wear a condom (or I'll use a 'female' condom) and avoid ejaculating inside of me.
2. What about all of the other potential threats to his health, even if you don't transmit HIV? As a poz-on-poz BB top I found by too many uncomfortable trips to the doc or a clinic that 'garden-variety' STIs and other bugs that develop urinary tract infections are too plentiful for me to risk one of my most precious body parts. Are you certain that your Love Canal isn't going to give Mr Dream Dick something else?
Cheers,
David
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I commend you for your honesty. I once read that the risk of HIV transission bottom to top is something like 6 in 10,000. How these odds were developed I have no idea. While topping is less risky than bottoming (sans condom), no health professional I know of would classify it as low or even medium risk. What I constantly hear is that it is high risk, but less risky than bottoming.
There are documented cases of people who became infected while being the insertive partner. If your friend became infected, he may also then infect others. HIV often has exponential consequences.
In the end what you choose to do is your choice alone. It says good things about you that you put thought into your future actions and you assess the possible outcomes and consequences.
Another point I would like to make is that your health is important as well. He may in fact have other viral conditions that he could transmit to you (HPV, Hep, Herpes etc) not to mention all those lovely bacterial infections (Syph, Gono, Chylm) . Factoring in all the possible outcomes will help you arrive at your decision.
On a happy note, it sounds like you have exceptional skills in the oral sex department. Kudos for that too.
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If one were to consider all the possible STD's and such out there the only safe sex is monogamous sex with someone who you completely trust. Since that is not in the cards for me at this time I have to decide what risks I am willing to accept and be responsible for myself. Of course I haven't done a very good job of being responsible, if I had I probably wouldn't be here now. I guess my question boils down to "Is being responsible for me enough or should I also take on the responsibility of my sex partner."
BTW, David if you are ever in my neighborhood stop by and I'll be happy to show you my talents..... ;)
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Woody-
If I told you that very few (if any) of the bottoms I've met online over the last year have any compunction over the issue you're wrestling with right now would it surprise you?
Conventional wisdom is a tricky thing. It's based on little more than anecdote and intuition but carries the weight of scientifically proven fact among its adherents. And the current conventional wisdom of barebacking is that if the bottom's VL is undetectable then the top's risk is negligible. But even in the plague years of the late-eighties countless friends insisted that the black hand had passed me by owing to my being a strict anal top, as that was the conventional wisdom of the moment, yet here I am.
Your dilemma is the chief reason why I serosort exclusively. If I am never tempted then I'll never broach my ethics in this regard, and there are still plenty of poz bottoms I haven't exhausted yet ;D
No answers...just perspective...
Brent
(Who walks the line)
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I am not a religious person, but this line reminds me of paraphrased line from Genesis \\\\\\\"Am I my brother\\\\\\\'s keeper?\\\\\\\"
We have to ask ourselves if the well being of others is our responsibility. How much would it impact you if you did in fact infect him? Would you feel that your actions contributed to more suffering in the world, or is this something you consider to be outside of your hands? There is a certain point where we are able to foresee the consequences of our actions. Sometimes the consequences are so far down the road that they are hard to foresee.
It comes down to weighing the odds of infecting your partner with the consequences of such actions. We as humans struggle with these issues every day. A lot of people wouldn\\\\\\\'t give this a second thought, so it speaks highly to your sense of compassion and desire not to hurt others that you are weighing the costs and consequences of any future actions.
I guess my question boils down to \\\\\\\"Is being responsible for me enough or should I also take on the responsibility of my sex partner.\\\\\\\"
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These forums are so valuable. Thanks to you all for your input. I think I knew the answer to my question all along I just needed a little prodding. (excuse the pun).
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We have to ask ourselves if the well being of others is our responsibility. How much would it impact you if you did in fact infect him? Would you feel that your actions contributed to more suffering in the world, or is this something you consider to be outside of your hands? There is a certain point where we are able to foresee the consequences of our actions. Sometimes the consequences are so far down the road that they are hard to foresee.
This really struck me.
While I don't believe that we are responsible for the well being of others, I do believe we are responsible for our own actions that may cause harm to others.
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I am also a Poz bottom in a monogamous relationship with a negative top. We used to have bb sex before I seroconverted and both of us long for the day we can do it again without putting him at unusual risk. He is 30 and I am 59... hopefully there will be a solution before he turns 60.... good luck to you Woody.
Don (seroconverted Nov 06)
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Woody... What risk are you willing to take upon your health? Everyone has brought up so many issues one being hiv+ have to deal with... that so many do not even give it a secound thought? I myself value my health not to risk having bb sex on a random meaningless screw... no matter how sexually excited we might be... now if I ever meet mr right... in a monogamous relationship... I hope the next driver... gets to ride for life! lol top men are few and far between in the deep south... I'm at the point of becoming a lesbian... lol
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This is not to discount the impact that other STD's can have on HIV+ people. However, I have noticed one thing from the HIV+ people I've met in person where disclosure has taken place. They have mentioned other STD's that they've had. Most were very informed about their own health. It's like they are more in tune with what's going on with their health and with their bodies. I guess all those Dr. appts. help keep one informed.
What's particularly strange is that they must have HIVdar... kinda like gaydar. I can't think of anybody who ever disclosed their HIV+ status to me prior to me being HIV+. I've had several guys bring it up in conversation. It's too bad that somebody in the past (the one who infected me) didn't disclose to me, if he even knew! Maybe the difference is that these guys aren't just anonymous fucks but guys I'll likely see again socially; many I've seen and talked to on several occasions since disclosing to me.
David
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HIV takes all the fun out of sex. :-\
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HIV takes all the fun out of sex. :-\
Not for me it hasnt. Actually my sex life is 1000% better than it was before I got HIV. It is what you make it.
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These forums are so valuable. Thanks to you all for your input. I think I knew the answer to my question all along I just needed a little prodding. (excuse the pun).
:D you're the horndoggiest minister this side of sodom! i say you're smart enough to take it case-by-case. a kid from school wants to do me, he's poz too and eventually we'll do it but he has a boyfriend and i don't know the boyfriend i.e. i dont know what he has in addition to hiv. case-by-case
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I would ask him when was the last time he tested for HIV. I wouldn't be surprised that it was before I was born (and I am very old thank you very much.
There is a "top only" where I live that wants to fuck me. I would let him if he was poz, I refuse to let him while he claims that he is negative. I told him I was poz, he replied "This is why I only top". I asked when he tested, he said he doesn't need to....
Milker.
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I would ask him when was the last time he tested for HIV. I wouldn't be surprised that it was before I was born (and I am very old thank you very much.
There is a "top only" where I live that wants to fuck me. I would let him if he was poz, I refuse to let him while he claims that he is negative. I told him I was poz, he replied "This is why I only top". I asked when he tested, he said he doesn't need to....
Milker.
The guy that got me to thinking about all this is a bb top "only". I asked him when he finds bb btms to fuck are they poz or do they say they are negative. He replied "It's never discussed."
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The guy that got me to thinking about all this is a bb top "only". I asked him when he finds bb btms to fuck are they poz or do they say they are negative. He replied "It's never discussed."
and there lies the rub. they don't want to know if the parnter is pos but when they get hiv they then think, " I should have know better."
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Woody, put your needs first, or rather your " don't needs" first
you don't need the clap, syph, chlymadia,hep a,b or c, hpv, herpes or another, perhaps resistant starin of hiv (yes I believe in re-infection cross-infection or whatever you call it)
so continue to disclose up front and insist on a condom...for your protection
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Not for me it hasnt. Actually my sex life is 1000% better than it was before I got HIV. It is what you make it.
Have to agree with you on this. After I disclosed to the guy I am seeing our sex have been the best I ever had yes sometimes I do miss when we didn't use any protection but now it is compulsory for him to wear protection not only for himself but for my safety as well. As a matter of fact I wouldn't want it any other way since we mean so much to each other at this stage of our lives. He is neg and we will keep it like that and that he knows is not negotiable. Safety = Lots of fun.
Ronnie
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Safety = Lots of fun.
Amen! It's all in how you do it,and most of the worst sex I've ever had was during my bb period..... geez, I'm the Renoir of butt piracy now!
What really gets me about bottoms who insist on unprotected sex isn't their disregard for their health but the other crazy stuff that fills their heads. Number One among them is the idea that they can feel a blob of semen hit the wall of their rectums.
-D