POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Pirate on July 08, 2008, 11:58:01 am
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I generally don't disclose my HIV status to people who are merely sex partners. I disclose if I have met someone I would like to "date" or "see" or "have a relationship with" but my manhunt profile has an "ask me" for HIV status and when I meet guys for sex, I just make damn sure I have safe sex. And if anyone asks me what my status is, I am honest. But I think this policy might be lacking...as you may gather from the following story.
So recently I met this guy Dave. He has a boyfriend (open relationship) named Rex. Dave and I met online for sex and had a very good (and very safe) time together -- condoms were used and I didn't even cum in the condom while inside him etc. Dave told his boyfriend Rex about me and then Rex started messaging with me. Now one of the things that Dave told me about Rex is that Rex is a "total top" who "never gets fucked." And as we're messaging, Rex is indicating that he's going to "top" me if and when we meet and I'm excited about this. Again, no disclosure. I'm thinking that as the bottom in this, there's no need, especially if I insist on him wearing a condom. On Rex's manhunt profile, he claims to be "negative".
So Rex and I meet and it's hot. We start making out, taking off our clothes etc. and then "boom!" Rex blows me, gets my cock wet and then sits down on my condomless cock. I am not prepared for this at all. I am also in a state of sexual arousal and am not thinking clearly. (I'm not trying avoid responsibility by blaming my "state of sexual arousal" but I am often amazed at how bad my judgment becomes when I am "thinking with my cock") So I'm in him for a few seconds. And then I pull out (very reluctantly...) and before I know it, Rex has lubed his cock and put it up my ass. We eventually cum but not inside each others' asses.
So, yeah, I really should have stopped things at this point, disclosed or something. But I didn't. I just let the thing slide. It was really hot sex (no excuse...). The next day I was thinking "well maybe I should call Rex and tell him the situation. Since it hasn't been 24 hours yet, he could do something about it if I infected him. But then my own shame over the situation got in the way and I didn't. But what I did do (not enough, I realize) was to mention in an email to him that -- although I had a really hot time with him -- we really really shouldn't have unsafe sex again. I didn't mention that we shouldn't have unsafe sex because HE was at risk of getting something from ME...but still. He agreed and admitted that he'd never done that before and we just left it at that. He never said, "well I'm negative" or anything like that so I started wondering if he was really positive (a lot of people lie in their manhunt profiles), had gathered I was positive from my manhunt ("ask me") profile and was just leaving the whole thing unspoken. And yeah, I know I should have clarified everything but my shame and cowardliness got in the way. So I let a sleeping dog lie.
So Rex wants to meet again. And he wants to have a threesome with this other guy Harvey who I have met before. Harvey is a total bottom and Rex wants both me and him to "tag team" Harvey. So after weeks of scheduling conflicts, Harvey, Rex and I get together for our threesome. Rex and I are taking turns fucking Harvey -- we are both wearing condoms. So at one point, I am getting a handjob from Rex while wearing a condom. Rex leads me over to Harvey's ass and has me fuck Harvey. I put my cock inside Harvey's ass and it feels different. I look down and, as I suspected, Rex has slipped the condom off my cock. I've been in there for a few seconds before I notice. I slip out, put a condom back on, and continue. Again, yes, I should have disclosed at that point. I should have spoken up in some way. But I am a chickenshit coward.
So now I have seriously put both Harvey and Rex (and, by extension, Dave) in danger of HIV infection. And yes, Rex has some fault in this but I am really primarily to blame for not being more forthcoming. I will say that there are a couple of mitigating circumstances -- my viral load is undetectable which makes me "less infectious", according to that controversial Swiss report etc, and I didn't come inside either of them. But still.
So my question is, what should I do at this point? I think I already know the answer...
I also just wanted to get this story out there because I'm sure a lot of us have done stuff like this and maybe by admitting this, we can all be aware of how easy it is for us to act shamefully.
Any advice?
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Uh, do you honestly think "Mr. I'm A Total Top but Really Lie About It All The Time" doesn't do these barebacking orgy shenanigans all of the time? If he doesn't already know he's positive and just lying about that like he's lied about everything else then there's a 95% chance he was positive before you ever clicked "send" in a manhunt PM.
And sodomites lie on their manhunt profiles? Clutch the pearls, I say.
Of course, if you were to disclose to him that you are HIV+ he'd probably insist you'd infected him when his test came back positive, even though in actuality the last time he took an HIV test was 8 years ago... and since that time he's had 678 raw loads up his ass at the West Side Club, even though he's *really* a top -- unfortunately this is how these girls play the game. Trust.
Ah, I see you live in NYC. Nuf said honey. I don't mean to be rude but I see that you're 39. How long have you lived there? I can't imagine you've not encountered this previously on manhunt.
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Ah, I see you live in NYC. Nuf said honey. I don't mean to be rude but I see that you're 39. How long have you lived there? I can't imagine you've not encountered this previously on manhunt.
Oh I know all about the "Total (but not quite) Tops" who "never" have unsafe sex. It's just I have some responsibility here and I'm trying to ascertain what that is...especially in light of Harvey, who had no idea I was fucking him without a condom.
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I'm still wondering how someone slipped a condom off of you without you noticing. Was there some discussion about this acrobatic feat with Rex once you noticed?
I'm not going to tell you what to do -- you're a big boy. You have two options, no more, no less. I guess my larger point is that if you decide to fess up, and they do the requisite blame game and hand wringing rest assured that they're still liars and do this stuff all the time. They're also probably methed up as well.
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I think our online profiles should be honest and say HIV positive. I solves every issue you raised, except the shame you feel.
Get over the shame. It's just a virus.
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I slip out, put a condom back on, and continue. Again, yes, I should have disclosed at that point.
Yes you should have. But you did not, so now you should figure out what is the right thing to do next? I would always disclose with anyone sexual to prevent these feelings again.
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I have a profile on A4A and it says I'm positive... I don't even know why since I don't fool around with anyone anyway but somehow I feel good being honest. I guess it makes me feel good because the person I got it from lied for over a year about his status while we had unprotected sex many times.
Be honest... I guess its harder now that all its said and done, but at least tell them to get checked and don't do it again :-[ . We all make mistakes its up to us to fix them or live with them... you choose ;)
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I`m very open on my MH profile and state that I`m Positive. By being honest I have talked to most of the "ask me" and "blank stats" who, in the majority, are Poz themselves. No surprise, I know.
I have no shame in my HIV, I rather be up front and meet people who are not judgmental or ignorant to the virus. I have met alot of Poz friendly guys who have taken their time to thank me for my openess and have asked me questions. I do my best to educate them the best I can and hope by doing this I am helping someone from not becoming HIV.
With that said, I appreciate your honesty and sharing your story.I believe that you should tell them before any more trists. They should have the option to continue to play or not. Who knows, maybe they are in the "Poz Closet" and you might help them come out.
I wish you luck in your decision
ANGEL
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I hope we're all equally honest about our age, height and body weight stats :)
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Pirate,
Reading your original post was almost like a storyboard for a HIV prevention campaign comic book. What I mean by that is that I think it is a tale that I've heard so many times before that I knew pretty much where you were going with every line and could almost see each development in it's own cartoon box with the bubble thoughts showing what the characters were thinking.
Not sure what my point is other then most of us have all been there (or else we wouldn't be here) and I unfortunately expect many more to be sharing similar experiences on these boards long after you have become an old timer here.
I know on Manhunt most who say "ask status" are really poz (why on earth would a neg be ambiguous about their status?) but I think maybe you need to change your status to flat out and say your poz if you want to avoid this kind of regret going forward.
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Unless you have money and can afford attorneys then I would always disclose. They might not win in court, but you still have to pay the attorneys to represent you.
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I think I already know the answer...
Yea, you do...but you know what, the way I see it is if someone is willing to bareback - who's to say he isn't positive himself? Not that that makes it right but it does take two or three to tango. You shouldn't feel shameful. But if this makes you feel better.....bad Pirate, bad! And boy were you bad! :D
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what Philly said......
:-*
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Same old story just different players... Yeah, you should know better, and yeah they are probably poz also, but it is no easy task to reveal yourself. Just be careful cause there are more than hiv to catch. Also, they maybe so horney that they are not thinking.
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I would be very surprised if these guys are not HIV+ also. If they aren't they will be if they keep playing these games.
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HI I'm from the SF CA, I too cruise through the manhunt site, as well as several others.
I am also, at this moment in the mid west ( Illinois and Missouri ) and cruising through A4A and a few other sites.
I do not have my HIV status in most of my profile, for professional reasons.
While traveling, Ive been hit up by several hot young men, 19 to early 40's, I am 46.
Quite iften there is no mention of HIV or a flat out HIV - checked in the profile. I have been saying, No Im sorry we cant play, I am a POZ man. Most act as if they do not understand this term, so I give them HIV Lingo 101.
I am then told, its cool, we can play and do whatever we want. ( But I'm POZ and don't play with NEG guys) thats OK, Im POZ or POS too. (but your profile says NEG) yeah, I need to update that, I just turned pos. ( this is something I do not believe ) so I just move on, though If i do decide to meet up with them, I save all the messages and or e mails, just to cover my ass, so to speak.
So you, see there seems to be very few of us that actually tell the truth, about anything, let alone HIV Status.
I once met a 21 yr old guy that was also POZ, I was so shocked by his disclosure that before i could really think, I popped out with: My God, Ive been POZ longer then youve been alive. positive since 1983 ( at least ) there were no real test before 1983.
So there are also, on line anonymous disclosure sites, sites that send an anonymous e mail stating that you 2 or 3 or more played, and some body came to the party with more then they expected.
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Oh my yes darlin you must be up front about your poz status not just to protect your self but them as well :).
I know that I myself have always had safe sex with the other person claims to be negative ( OK that's just my way of stopping the spread of the virus I guess ).
Even if they can provide me with so much as lab results showing their blood work within the past three months I play safe no matter how much they beg to get taken bb .
I have on my man hunt, daddy hunt, bear411 even gay.com et al sites all listed myself as POZ ( yes in just the same manner as you are now reading ) even if they do not offer such a status in their criteria for sex .
I have had the same man at my side for the past 22 years that knows that go out side our relationship to play ( he at times even endorses it so I can have some me time with my own age group since he is now on the verge of turning 63 ) .
I guess him letting me do such a thing is his way of telling me that he loves me and wants me to be happy which of course always brings me back to him ;D.
Now if you go out and play no matter what they claim their status is play SAFELY because " you won't get sick if u / he cover ( s) your dick (s) :o".
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Hey........ I can relate to what your saying, not only do others NOT tell or post their HIV+ status, but most of them don't tell you that they have STD's as well......some don't even know that they even have HIV or STD's..........and as for the sex sites (where you pick up other guys) Most 99% of them are ALL LIARS ANYWAY.............hunnie, TRUST NO ONE...........be smarter, you sound like your smarter than what your doing, perhaps you need to find some NEW friends, at least some that don't LIE, sometimes SEX isn't everything, I always tell others my HIV status (if they don't like it , they can move on)..........I use to think like you and do some of this shit, but at 52, I've learned that SEX isn't all what it's cracked up to be........when you get older you will understand just what I'm speaking of hon ::)
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Wow I feel like I was right there with you. I will have to agree with the consensus and say maybe you should place your status on the site. This will protect you in the end... D
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Condom use is not only to protect your partner!!!
I finally found the courage to admit my HIV status, met this guy a few weeks ago who with full knowledge wanted to go condomless. He claims to have had unprotected sex with other partners , this should have been my first clue, though he remains HIV neg.
He tells me his lover died a few months back from liver cancer, so I'm thinking he hasn't been with anyone. I am encouraged to pull out before ejaculating which will decrease any risk. Now for all my worries that I might give him something I forgot there might be the possiblity he will be passing something on to me. Which he did and it started with ithching, burning on urination, and a purulent discharge. :'(Learned another valuable lesson....
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I hope we're all equally honest about our age, height and body weight stats :)
I know everyone is going to use current photographs on their profiles, beginning tonight ;D Have the best day
Michael
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Just as an experiment, try posting a profile w/a good body shot on one of these sites, disclose you're POZ, then log in and just patiently wait for IMs. You'll be surprised how many people are posting they are neg when they are really poz. Don't be shy and just tell them you only hook up w/other poz. Suddenly they come clean w/their status. Amazing anyone infected w/this s**t would post they are neg.
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ok i goofed how do I delet? ???
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Sweetie, I will tell you just like I would one of my own...... Tell ! Let them know your status. As a mother of a gay and liberated child please tell your status. You dint want a new strain to develop. You dint want to make things worse for your self and the one that you don't inform may be mine. (I know its not), but still yet. You have to protect yourself as well as others and if this jerk is stupid enough to pull games like that with others lives then he is not worth it and I would go some place else for my satisfaction. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't.
I am also a caring mom and not just an HIV / STD care giver.
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Sweetie, I will tell you just like I would one of my own...... Tell ! Let them know your status. As a mother of a gay and liberated child please tell your status. You dint want a new strain to develop. You dint want to make things worse for your self and the one that you don't inform may be mine. (I know its not), but still yet. You have to protect yourself as well as others and if this jerk is stupid enough to pull games like that with others lives then he is not worth it and I would go some place else for my satisfaction. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't.
I am also a caring mom and not just an HIV / STD care giver.
I hope as a HIV/STD (?) caregiver you are advising folks that the first line of defense is always ourselves. Play safe, use protection, and it's all good.
No matter how we parse words or moralize, our own protection is pretty simple.
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Assuming we are all over 18, then we are responsible for ourselves...what happens to us is our business, not the other guy's....if you have sex like an adult, then accept personal repsonsibility for what does or does not go in you, happen to you, etc. If I will only allow myself to have safe sex, I will make sure condoms are used or it ain't happening. If I allow bareback, then it's my problem, not the other guy's.
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Just as an experiment, try posting a profile w/a good body shot on one of these sites, disclose you're POZ, then log in and just patiently wait for IMs. You'll be surprised how many people are posting they are neg when they are really poz. Don't be shy and just tell them you only hook up w/other poz. Suddenly they come clean w/their status. Amazing anyone infected w/this s**t would post they are neg.
I'm not sure why this would surprise anyone. People lie all the time about absolutely everything.
And there would be less stigma if so many people didn't allow themselves to be stigmatized in the first place.
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I was having a chat the other day with this guy and he asked if I did it raw. I said it depends, what about him. He said he did if the other guy was neg. So I decided to push the issue a little and asked how he knew they were negative for sure. I am still waiting for a response.
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Let them know anonymously if you are too uncomfortable letting them know.
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I read alot of different responses but very few dealt with the issue at hand. Regardless what other people are doing or if they are in fact posting accurate pics, stats or status', the only thing we have control of is ourselves and our actions. As HIV+ men, we do this because it is the right thing to do and to stop the cycle that has been done to us. With a simple posting of our status in our profile or by disclosing before our clothes come off, we limit the chances of infection even if chances of rejection increases. What people agree to do after you share that information is up to you two.
If that couple already is positive, that is one thing but guess what, you will be put in another situation similar to this eventually and what will you do next/differently? Its not worth the stress thinking that you infected someone unintentionally, its not worth stressing whether you were exposed to syphilis, another strain, or legal/criminal ramifications.
Like the 4 Agreements says by Don Miguel Ruiz:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
3. Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.
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I read alot of different responses but very few dealt with the issue at hand. Regardless what other people are doing or if they are in fact posting accurate pics, stats or status', the only thing we have control of is ourselves and our actions. As HIV+ men, we do this because it is the right thing to do and to stop the cycle that has been done to us. With a simple posting of our status in our profile or by disclosing before our clothes come off, we limit the chances of infection even if chances of rejection increases. What people agree to do after you share that information is up to you two.
If that couple already is positive, that is one thing but guess what, you will be put in another situation similar to this eventually and what will you do next/differently? Its not worth the stress thinking that you infected someone unintentionally, its not worth stressing whether you were exposed to syphilis, another strain, or legal/criminal ramifications.
Like the 4 Agreements says by Don Miguel Ruiz:
Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.
2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.
3. Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.
4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.
I don't worry about AIDS, I already have it, and I most certainly DON'T want to give it to anyone else, however, I do worry about STD's, and unfortunately HIV and STD's are like this.........most people don't know they even have them, and because they don't know, it gets passed to others during unprotected SEX..........so, to me, thats the whole problem in a nut shell ???
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I think the best thing to do is to tell. The guys you had sex with need a reality check, however I doubt that they are hiv- . I am 25 years and have been rejected by soo many guys after disclosing my status. Just this pass weekend at a club someone wanted to go home with me, i told him and he passed me over. Plus their are STDs that a condom alone wont prevent stds, so I too pass people. You jsut got to ask and or tell. Like my friends tell me, "i am a cock tease" ::)
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I think the best thing to do is to tell. The guys you had sex with need a reality check, however I doubt that they are hiv- . I am 25 years and have been rejected by soo many guys after disclosing my status. Just this pass weekend at a club someone wanted to go home with me, i told him and he passed me over. Plus their are STDs that a condom alone wont prevent stds, so I too pass people. You jsut got to ask and or tell. Like my friends tell me, "i am a cock tease" ::)
Yeah and the guy that passed-you-over due to YOU disclosing your HIV+ status, probably has STD's and is HIV+, and I bet he doesn't EVEN KNOW THIS YET...........case-in-point ??? also...you said "Plus their are STDs that a condom alone wont prevent stds" unless you know something that all the rest of us on this forum and the CDC DOESN'T KNOW, I have to disagee with you on that statement....comdoms do prevent STD's unless your talking about scabies, crabs or HPV which don't need sexual contact only skin on skin
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" I have to disagee with you on that statement....comdoms do prevent STD's unless your talking about scabies, crabs or HPV which don't need sexual contact only skin on skin".....quote denb
AH the good old days...when a case of the clap was treated with a dose of penecillin and crabs.... well...a few goood washes with A200.
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...a few goood washes with A200.
Ahhh, honey some of us still relive the good old days.
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" I have to disagee with you on that statement....comdoms do prevent STD's unless your talking about scabies, crabs or HPV which don't need sexual contact only skin on skin".....quote denb
AH the good old days...when a case of the clap was treated with a dose of penecillin and crabs.... well...a few goood washes with A200.
You mean the Bi-cillin shots ( the thick white ones with 1 in both butt cheeks) and the a200 (we called it crab-juice) and that stuff burnt like hell, got rid of the crabs tho ;D and the Bi-cillin shots were very PAINFUL, for at least 2 to 3 days, but did get rid of any and all STD's...............yep, :D the good ole days
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To Denb45,
Yes, i agree the person that passed me over perhaps had an STD or HIV and didn't know about it, oh well.
I guess i was a bit vague, since i was typing really fast. What I meant to say is that condoms do a great job preventing against STDs and was focusing more on HPV, herpes, crabs, scabies. Since I was diagnosed three years ago with HPV, I was leaning towards the skin to skin STDs. That is why my statement came out as such. I still believe that you still need to disclose your status to anyone you have sex with. Thats is not to say that you should become celebate or become paranoid, but you should disclose and be careful with your partners. And believe me if I knew something that you, the forum, and the CDC didn't know about you guys would be the first to know!
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To Denb45,
Yes, i agree the person that passed me over perhaps had an STD or HIV and didn't know about it, oh well.
I guess i was a bit vague, since i was typing really fast. What I meant to say is that condoms do a great job preventing against STDs and was focusing more on HPV, herpes, crabs, scabies. Since I was diagnosed three years ago with HPV, I was leaning towards the skin to skin STDs. That is why my statement came out as such. I still believe that you still need to disclose your status to anyone you have sex with. Thats is not to say that you should become celebate or become paranoid, but you should disclose and be careful with your partners. And believe me if I knew something that you, the forum, and the CDC didn't know about you guys would be the first to know!
;)
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You mean the Bi-cillin shots ( the thick white ones with 1 in both butt cheeks)... and the Bi-cillin shots were very PAINFUL...
That brings back some BAD memories! I was diagnosed with syphilis at the same time as HIV. I went through three sets of those shots... one in each cheek for three Fridays in a row. It turns out, from subsequent testing (through my Dr instead of the Dept. of Health) hasn't shown that I ever had syphilis.
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That brings back some BAD memories! I was diagnosed with syphilis at the same time as HIV. I went through three sets of those shots... one in each cheek for three Fridays in a row. It turns out, from subsequent testing (through my Dr instead of the Dept. of Health) hasn't shown that I ever had syphilis.
You will always test positive for syphilis ,if you had it before, it will be non-reactive (which means a NEG result for syphilis), but you can get syphilis again and having HIV makes NO difference at all ;D
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You will always test positive for syphilis ,if you had it before, it will be non-reactive (which means a NEG result for syphilis), but you can get syphilis again and having HIV makes NO difference at all ;D
That's just it; I haven't tested positive for it when tested by my ID Dr.
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That's just it; I haven't tested positive for it when tested by my ID Dr.
That sounds similar to what happened to me, I got the 2 shots, but NEVER Tested poz for syphilis by my own ID Doctor ??? but never tested poz for syphilis by Dept. of Health, but due to being EXPOSED to syphilis, I got the 2 shots ANYWAY from Dept. of Health :o
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I was having a chat the other day with this guy and he asked if I did it raw. I said it depends, what about him. He said he did if the other guy was neg. So I decided to push the issue a little and asked how he knew they were negative for sure. I am still waiting for a response.
One guy I was chatting to once said in answer to that very same question is that he insists on seeing an HIV test result... Of cause though the result could be out of date. and there is no way telling if the person with the HIV neg result has played it safe since the results.
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im sorry but i to want to know how someone slipped a condom off you without your knowing it i just dont buy that bull shit i think you was caught up in the act made some bad calls in the process and now that your dick is no longer hard you feeling the guilt of your actions. it is what it is i dont judge you i been there myself but ever since ive disclosed my status ive found that people dont hate me and generally aint afraid of me. ive actually only had maybe 2 bad responses from people it aint that bad but hey if your not ready to tell people thats your right but you have NO right to put other peolpe at risk just cuz your scared