POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Inchlingblue on June 16, 2010, 06:43:03 pm
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I hope she wins the suit and gets a lot of money.
An experienced housekeeper in New York is suing a prospective employer, charging she demanded that the housekeeper take and pass an HIV test before starting her job.
Agnes Cybulska, who has been in the relatively unregulated housekeeping industry for 19 years, is suing Dana Hammond, the heiress to the Annenberg family, according to The New York Times. Cybulska answered an ad she found on Craigslist posted by an employment agency that called for an "experienced executive Polish housekeeper." Duties included supervising the domestic staff, cleaning, running errands, and caring for Hammond's daughter.
When Cybulska visited Hammond at one of her homes in January, she said, Hammond told her the job would not pay the advertised $1,000 per week, but instead $150 daily, for nine hours, without benefits or overtime.
In a second interview, according to Cybulska, Hammond demanded that she take and pass an HIV test, something Hammond has required of everyone on her domestic staff. Hammond said she had recently been tested herself after using a toilet that seemed unsanitary; the statement struck Cybulska as odd. Cybulska then informed the employment agency that Hammond was demanding the test be administered, and soon after agency executives informed her that she was not right for the position.
Cybulska's suit, filed Tuesday in a state court in Manhattan, says the testing requirement violates New York City's Human Rights Law. It names both Hammond and the employment agency, Domestic Job Picks, as defendants. Their representatives were not available for comment to the Times.
Discriminating against someone with HIV is also illegal under the federal Americans With Disabilities Act.
LINKS:
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/06/16/Maid_Sues_Heiress_Over_HIV_Test_Requirement/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/16/nyregion/16nanny.html?src=mv
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Hammond said she had recently been tested herself after using a toilet that seemed unsanitary
The only thing unsanitary is her mind.
-John.
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I wonder what defines "passing"? Let's see, HIV is a bug, bugs bite... Did I pass?
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This is the bit that stands out for me:
When Cybulska visited Hammond at one of her homes in January, she said, Hammond told her the job would not pay the advertised $1,000 per week, but instead $150 daily, for nine hours, without benefits or overtime.
Surely this is a breach of NY state industrial law.
MtD
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The Times article elaborates:
The lawsuit, if unusual in its particulars, does offer yet one more view into the world of domestic workers and their employers. Advocates for domestic workers say excessive demands are far too common because nannies and housekeepers have long been excluded from most labor law protections.
Albany lawmakers hope to ease the workers’ quandary. This month the State Senate passed the Domestic Workers Bill of Rights, which seeks to give workers protections enjoyed by most other employees. The State Assembly passed a similar bill last year, and lawmakers are working to reconcile the two bills before the end of the legislative session.
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This is the bit that stands out for me:
When Cybulska visited Hammond at one of her homes in January, she said, Hammond told her the job would not pay the advertised $1,000 per week, but instead $150 daily, for nine hours, without benefits or overtime.
Surely this is a breach of NY state industrial law.
MtD
Well, if she expects the maid to work 7 days a week it would be $1,050 a week . That comes out to $16.6/day which is well above minimum wage. The lack of overtime would probably be against NY labor laws, though. But not the lack of benefits.
Anyway, good of the maid to sue ! I hope she wins big.
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Odd that nobody remarked on how the heiress also spec'd out a white lady for the job.
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Odd that nobody remarked on how the heiress also spec'd out a white lady for the job.
You mean the "Polish housekeeper" thing?
MtD
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You mean the "Polish housekeeper" thing?
MtD
Yes, of course. Are Polish people better with Mop-N-Glo and diaper management? I missed that memo.
I know how this all works in Manhattan. Don't specify the Polish, you get a Jamaican.
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I think someone hiring a maid for their house can be expected to specify what kind of person to hire. One thing is hiring practices by companies, another private individuals.
I'm a libertarian and believe that if she wants a virgin Philipino maid who speaks Chinese and can do backflips - that's her choice.
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Yes, of course. Are Polish people better with Mop-N-Glo and diaper management? I missed that memo.
I know how this all works in Manhattan. Don't specify the Polish, you get a Jamaican.
See I was thinking it was a reference to Lemon Pledge. Yer learn sumthin' every day!
MtD
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I'm a libertarian and believe that if she wants a virgin Philipino maid who speaks Chinese and can do backflips - that's her choice.
How utterly delicious. :D
So are you a Penn Jillette style anarcho-capitalist or a Ron Paulbot?
MtD
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How utterly delicious. :D
So are you a Penn Jillette style anarcho-capitalist or a Ron Paulbot?
MtD
Don't know what they believe in. But I think some things should be left to individuals to sort out between them. Can't expect courts of government to get involved all the time.
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Don't know what they believe in. But I think some things should be left to individuals to sort out between them. Can't expect courts of government to get involved all the time.
So you think it's OK to require HIV test of prospective employees? Fascinating.
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So you think it's OK to require HIV test of prospective employees? Fascinating.
Like I said - I think there is a difference between companies and individuals. A company should not be allowed to discriminate based on a number of factors, HIV status being one of them.
An individual hiring someone should be free to pick whoever they want for whatever reasons. Just like we don't have to explain to anybody what barber we use or which florist we frequent.
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Like I said - I think there is a difference between companies and individuals. A company should not be allowed to discriminate based on a number of factors, HIV status being one of them.
An individual hiring someone should be free to pick whoever they want for whatever reasons. Just like we don't have to explain to anybody what barber we use or which florist we frequent.
So, say a sole proprietorship employing 10 people can require an HIV test? Or do you just mean one person hiring one other person, but not two people? The heiress was doing this HIV test for all staff.
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So, say a sole proprietorship employing 10 people can require an HIV test? Or do you just mean one person hiring one other person, but not two people? The heiress was doing this HIV test for all staff.
A sole proprietorship sound like a company to me - whose purpose is to provide services or make goods for the market at large. Hence no HIV tests.
One person (or household) hiring domestic staff - whether it's one cleaner or ten - is a different case. She is the sole consumer and should have the right to pick whoever she sees fit.
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One person (or household) hiring domestic staff - whether it's one cleaner or ten - is a different case. She is the sole consumer and should have the right to pick whoever she sees fit.
So then the HIV test is OK in this case?
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This heiress was using an employment agency, so borzel's point is moot!
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So then the HIV test is OK in this case?
Yes. I am not concentrating on HIV - for example I think she would be entitled to request anything - specific language skills, marital status, age, etc.
This heiress was using an employment agency, so borzel's point is moot!
I'm not sure of the logistics involved, only talking about general principle.
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Odd that nobody remarked on how the heiress also spec'd out a white lady for the job.
The heiress obviously doesnt want a situation such as this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOSehGMwB4
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The heiress obviously doesnt want a situation such as this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOSehGMwB4
Uh, this isn't an ADAP funding thread.
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Uh, this isn't an ADAP funding thread.
I'm sorry, but I couldnt find anywhere else to put my Mexican Housemaid clip.
-Will
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Isn't that the same family who gives money to a lot of causes and I always see listed as a sponsor of many PBS programs?
My partner and I were just debating the other night whether employers can make you take an HIV test. He thought some medical jobs could require an HIV test--like nurses and docs. But I wasn't sure.
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My partner and I were just debating the other night whether employers can make you take an HIV test. He thought some medical jobs could require an HIV test--like nurses and docs. But I wasn't sure.
LOL I sure hope not Teddy. :-[
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Universal cross infection procedures should negate the need for compulsory HIV testing of health care professionals.
MtD
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Universal cross infection procedures should negate the need for compulsory HIV testing of health care professionals.
MtD
Right as always.
Hugs
Jan :-*
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borzel's point is moot!
Yup. He likes to contradict everybody just for shits and giggles. He must be a riot in real life.
This woman got tested because she "used a toliet that seemed unsanitary"? What did she use it for, to have unprotected sex? She must have been hanging out with la Philicia at Sound Factory.
I can't believe that someone who should have some sort of education thinks this way. This is not 1984.
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Universal cross infection procedures should negate the need for compulsory HIV testing of health care professionals.
MtD
This aspect does not register for some reason here where I am. I've discussed the possibilities with many people in the health care profession, including my doctor, about becoming a RN with my pos status, not one person has told me it is possible yet. Mind you, it hasn't deterred me in the least, but it is kind of disappointing.
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This aspect does not register for some reason here where I am. I've discussed the possibilities with many people in the health care profession, including my doctor, about becoming a RN with my pos status, not one person has told me it is possible yet. Mind you, it hasn't deterred me in the least, but it is kind of disappointing.
I feel for you Skeets. Restrictions on HIV positive clinicians have no basis in sound practice or in science.
This will be of little comfort for you, but in Australia there is no compulsory HIV testing for any health care worker and no HIV positive HCW is required to disclose their HIV status to anyone - patient or employer.
But don't let this stuff deter you. Stupid restrictions like this will not change unless people in your position take the cudgels up demand that change.
MtD
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Odd that nobody remarked on how the heiress also spec'd out a white lady for the job.
I can be so dense sometimes. When I read the Polish housekeeper part I was stumped, wondering why on Earth would she specify Polish?! Duh.
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I can be so dense sometimes. When I read the Polish housekeeper part I was stumped, wondering why on Earth would she specify Polish?! Duh.
Like I said, Lemon fucking Pledge! :)
MtD
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This aspect does not register for some reason here where I am. I've discussed the possibilities with many people in the health care profession, including my doctor, about becoming a RN with my pos status, not one person has told me it is possible yet. Mind you, it hasn't deterred me in the least, but it is kind of disappointing.
I have no idea what the laws are about healthcare workers. Do some states require them to take an HIV test? I know they can require you to get vaccinations. That came to a head during the H1N1 ordeal.
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I have never heard of this person, who is supposed to be an Annenberg "heiress" or as one story put it, "the" heiress (as if there were only one). The Annenberg's have never been known to be stupid nor uninformed.
This person must be a real black hole, insulated by money to a point of worthlessness to the human race. What a pity for a family that did so much good with their money for a long time...
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I have never heard of this person, who is supposed to be an Annenberg "heiress" or as one story put it, "the" heiress (as if there were only one). The Annenberg's have never been known to be stupid nor uninformed.
This person must be a real black hole, insulated by money to a point of worthlessness to the human race. What a pity for a family that did so much good with their money for a long time...
Tell us, what do you know about the Annenbergs?
MtD
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No way, José! Already got shit for meeting Elton John.
But you can google them if you are interested. Huge philanthropic family and respected and liked in that world.
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One person (or household) hiring domestic staff - whether it's one cleaner or ten - is a different case.
Persons from rich families are not individuals, they are companies, as I am sure their tax lawyers will tell you. Plus, being the top dogs of the free world, a virtue surely enjoyed by natural and just advantage, ie inherited wealth, and believing in all that Jackie Kennedy human rights stuff as they do at them cocktail parties and philanthropic dinners, they should be well setting an example (<< I left out a word to be polite)
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Suppose she wants to set an example by hiring only an HIV+ maid. Would that be ok?
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Oh, add to the insult, her husband is a neurologist at NYHospital/Cornell Med!!!!
What a c*nt.
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Oh, add to the insult, her husband is a neurologist at NYHospital/Cornell Med!!!!
What a c*nt.
You know if you're motivated enough to call someone a cunt you might as well just use it properly rather than bowdlerising it.
::)
MtD
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See the work fuck here but never seen cunt.
One puts the * not to disguise the word rather to express one's awareness that others might take offense to a necessary vulgarity.
Wouldn't bowdlerising be omitting the word from a quote?
I'll never be as in your face and vulgar as you MTD, though we love you for it!
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These years in Switzerland are changing the way I communicate. Public vulgarity is a crime here. Call a cunty woman a cunt on the street and she can have you arrested!
Cunt generally being one of those taboo words that I think only woman can use in certain situations. Like Fag, kike, dago, wetback, and nigger. I mean I could say cunt in a gay bar to another fag, but its pretty strong for a man to say it in a public forum like this, no?
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I dream of a day when we all can say the word cunt without everyone in the room looking at you as if they smell something fishy .
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Hey I just looked up cunt and learned its more for a man, when used in public in Britain, and in the Australian New Zealand orbit, can even be positive??? True? Learn something new everyday!
# (Australian, New Zealand, British, positive comment, colloquial, countable) When used with certain adjectives such as good or funny, cunt can be used to describe a person in a positive manner. This is mostly done between male friends.
Yes, I do remember Dave, he was one funny cunt.
Tom's a good cunt, he fixed my car and didn't even charge me for it!
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cunt
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Thats great mecch . Thanks for being a cunt and finding that for us ... twat a guy !
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Thats great mecch . Thanks for being a cunt and finding that for us ... twat a guy !
I think you need to put an adjective before the cunt for it to work.
'You're a right old "swell cunt" to look that up.'
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I wonder what kind of contract Sir Elton requires of the servants? Mecch, get on that for us.
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I think you need to put an adjective before the cunt for it to work.
'You're a right old "swell cunt" to look that up.'
Thanks again ... I think you got it licked .
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Yup. He likes to contradict everybody just for shits and giggles. He must be a riot in real life.
This woman got tested because she "used a toliet that seemed unsanitary"? What did she use it for, to have unprotected sex? She must have been hanging out with la Philicia at Sound Factory.
I can't believe that someone who should have some sort of education thinks this way. This is not 1984.
I do, if I think the consensus is getting too comfortable with the prevailing view. I think someone should step in and say - hold on, this may not necessarily the right view just because we all think so.
I partied at the Sound Factory in the 90s too actually, but probably different crowd :)
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Thanks again ... I think you got it licked .
Ewwww
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I partied at the Sound Factory in the 90s too actually, but probably different crowd :)
Original Sound Factory or the very lame attempt to reconstruct it in a different location? Miss P was an original member who received VIP treatment from management.
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Original Sound Factory or the very lame attempt to reconstruct it in a different location? Miss P was an original member who received VIP treatment from management.
this was around 98-00?
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this was around 98-00?
That would indicate major fail. Sorry.
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That would indicate major fail. Sorry.
Maybe he's talking about the SF in Paducah, KY.
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Maybe he's talking about the SF in Paducah, KY.
Next month he'll probably claim rights to Sally's Hideaway (http://www.sallys-hideaway.com/A_Pictorial_History.html).
ps: I used to dance with Exotica during the closing sets at Factory -- she used to work the only tassled nipple pastees.
(http://www.sallys-hideaway.com/Exotica_2.jpg)
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A couple of years ago I heard about some legends working on some sort of New York Nightclub or Nightlife museum... Anything come of that?
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That would indicate major fail. Sorry.
And in English that means what?
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And in English that means what?
It would indicate 1) that you have no idea what you're talking about, and 2) went to the "wrong" Sound Factory, meaning the sad attempt to re-create the original Sound Factory in an entirely different location than the original one, and years after the first one closed.
Nice try, no cookie.
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It would indicate 1) that you have no idea what you're talking about, and 2) went to the "wrong" Sound Factory, meaning the sad attempt to re-create the original Sound Factory in an entirely different location than the original one, and years after the first one closed.
Nice try, no cookie.
Never claimed to be an expert on clubs.
But your statement gives away an old person. Easy to spot - only things that were around when you were young were good and original. Everything afterwards is sad and pathetic.
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Your age and quality theory doesn't really apply to nightlife reboots.
Second incarnations eclipsing the original venue/locale are rare.
I can think of very few in my experience. And you?
The first Danceteria was great, and then the second location was infamous. Third sucked.
Swissmiss Susanne Bartsch convincingly resuscitated Copacabana in the 1980's. She had done the same at the non-legendary Bentley's. Girl had a flair for this.
I hated the Roxy's makeover into a gay club because it had been so great as a hip-hop club.
The Saint at Large has sometimes achieved the excitement of the Saint say some of my friends 10 years older than me. By the time I got to the Saint, it was on its last legs and we'd scurry over to Boy Bar or Pyramid. Those two were at their peak. Besides, the Saint had been the Fillmore East. I can't imagine the Saint ever surpassing the Fillmore scene.
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If you don't feel these things as important, important for your pleasure and the energy of the place, then you're not really a clubber.
SNL has a great sketch on Weekend Update this year about a clubber who can only explain the weirdest and most fabulous places of the moment. There is always a fabulous place NOW.
You are right to call someone an old lady if they always complain that the new is never as good as the stuff that used to be. But that is not the same as a women of a certain age naming exactly when someplace was the right place at the right time.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP3u0rNkys
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Your age and quality theory doesn't really apply to nightlife reboots.
Second incarnations eclipsing the original venue/locale are rare.
I can think of very few in my experience. And you?
The first Danceteria was great, and then the second location was infamous. Third sucked.
Swissmiss Susanne Bartsch convincingly resuscitated Copacabana in the 1980's. She had done the same at the non-legendary Bentley's. Girl had a flair for this.
I hated the Roxy's makeover into a gay club because it had been so great as a hip-hop club.
The Saint at Large has sometimes achieved the excitement of the Saint say some of my friends 10 years older than me. By the time I got to the Saint, it was on its last legs and we'd scurry over to Boy Bar or Pyramid. Those two were at their peak. Besides, the Saint had been the Fillmore East. I can't imagine the Saint ever surpassing the Fillmore scene.
________________
If you don't feel these things as important, important for your pleasure and the energy of the place, then you're not really a clubber.
SNL has a great sketch on Weekend Update this year about a clubber who can only explain the weirdest and most fabulous places of the moment. There is always a fabulous place NOW.
You are right to call someone an old lady if they always complain that the new is never as good as the stuff that used to be. But that is not the same as a women of a certain age naming exactly when someplace was the exactly the right place at the right time.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP3u0rNkys
Wow mecch, who the hell was this for?
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Oh that was for Boze.
Sorry to bore everyone including Boze with my offtopic rant.
Back to the wacky fun-loving heiress, shall we?
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Oh that was for Boze.
Sorry to bore everyone including Boze with my offtopic rant.
Back to the wacky fun-loving heiress, shall we?
LOL it was very descriptive though... Maybe if I popped one of your sustiva pills you brag about I could have been there..
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Your age and quality theory doesn't really apply to nightlife reboots.
Second incarnations eclipsing the original venue/locale are rare.
I can think of very few in my experience. And you?
The first Danceteria was great, and then the second location was infamous. Third sucked.
Swissmiss Susanne Bartsch convincingly resuscitated Copacabana in the 1980's. She had done the same at the non-legendary Bentley's. Girl had a flair for this.
I hated the Roxy's makeover into a gay club because it had been so great as a hip-hop club.
The Saint at Large has sometimes achieved the excitement of the Saint say some of my friends 10 years older than me. By the time I got to the Saint, it was on its last legs and we'd scurry over to Boy Bar or Pyramid. Those two were at their peak. Besides, the Saint had been the Fillmore East. I can't imagine the Saint ever surpassing the Fillmore scene.
________________
If you don't feel these things as important, important for your pleasure and the energy of the place, then you're not really a clubber.
SNL has a great sketch on Weekend Update this year about a clubber who can only explain the weirdest and most fabulous places of the moment. There is always a fabulous place NOW.
You are right to call someone an old lady if they always complain that the new is never as good as the stuff that used to be. But that is not the same as a women of a certain age naming exactly when someplace was the right place at the right time.
----
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TP3u0rNkys
I think the statement "Oh, I partied at the right Sound Factory" is only a testament to someone's age. Like saying they had voted in 1982 elections which were way better than 2000 elections. And comparing "their" club to another incarnation 15 years later is just another incarnation of "when I was young, grass was greener and sky was bluer".
What is a club - just a place for young people to get high, dance and have a good time. Earlier ones were better because the person comparing was younger and more able to have fun. I know we had a ton of fun at SF in late 90s - can I allow that someone else had more fun at another club called SF 20 years before? Sure. But it's as relevant as comparing two Woodstocks - one from the 60s and 90s.
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Boze you miss the point entirely. Miss P isn't saying that nothing new under the sun or streetlamp is exciting.
The argument is that every place - restaurant, nightclub, resort, fashion fad, lifestyle, university, childrearing trend, etc. etc. etc. has its peak moment.
If you went grunge in 1998 you missed the grunge moment. If you're wearing your calvins today and think you are all that, OK, but the trend energy and excitement in that brief is long gone. If you partied at the Copa in the 70s cool, if you partied at the Susanne B reboot, even cooler, but the cool wears off. The bloom goes off the rose.
Take a trendy restaurant. If you can't get a reserveration the first year cause its hoarded by VIPs, and then you finally get there in the 3rd year, the vibe may be gone. In fact, the restaurant makes most of its profit on the 2nd wave of clients - rich but not VIP. Service and food may, or may not, continue up to snuff. Nobdy says you wont have a good time. But people can validly say you missed the moment.
People carve out areas of interest in which they are wiling to play the trendster game. The reward it the excitment of being in. This doesn't have to be New York Nighclubs. Every 10 years or so there is a shift in the MOST desireable elite university, and which one for which group.
For 10 years now people have been flocking to the World Economic Forum. Maybe next year, the bloom will be off, and it continues another 5. So if you go to the WEF in 2012, you've missed it, maybe all the excitement is at TED.
Knowing which was the best Sound Factory, and being part of it, this has value to Miss P. If this sort of thing has no value to you, you haven't included nightclubbing on your list of experiences in which trendiness and peak experience is important.
Some people, for instance, take pride in home baking Someone is going to bake you the birthday cake of your life. You can't come back to that person and say, well, there's a chocolate mousse number I love at the local supermarket....
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Please@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No more Sound Factory talk.
Boze, If you have a response to Mecch, please send him a PM.
I have not wanted to say anything up to now, but enough is enough. Hijacking a thread, especially to this extent, is bad form. Not everyone who opens the thread up for updates wants to read all this extraneous stuff. I for one am not the least bit interested and this is my thread.
Thank you for your cooperation. ;)
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OK back to miss heiress.
And what do you think about her being married to a doctor? shouldn't she know better???
And her great aunt Lee Annenberg - she was chief of protocol for Reagan. So she was supposed to be an expert in the proper way to treat people
What happened???
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Even though it does not make a difference as far as the merits of the case, I don't think they mention anywhere whether the job applicant is actually HIV-positive or not. I realize it's beside the point but I was still wondering.
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Maybe she wants an hiv+ maid for weaponizing purposes. You know so if an invader breaks in the maid can spit on them.
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Perhaps she wants more than some housekeeping from her domestic and she is seriosorting .
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Suppose she wants to set an example by hiring only an HIV+ maid. Would that be ok?
No. But that's not what she did, anyway.
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linky (http://gawker.com/5566627/the-manhattan-heiress-and-her-hiv-obsession)
Hammond's HIV obsession goes way back. We hear that a few years ago she interviewed a man for a position as a butler at her apartment just off Park Avenue. She asked him if he was gay (which by itself is a big employment no no). When he said yes, she freaked out about the possibility that he had HIV and told him he'd have to get an HIV test from her husband, a doctor, before being hired.
There are about three dozen things wrong with this. But on the upside: If you ever meet anyone who works for Dana Hammond, you've essentially got carte blanche to have a bunch of unprotected sex with them! The worst you're going to get is herpes.
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No amount of money can cure, terminal stupidity.