Romance.... and experience ?

[John2038]

I have hesitated before posting such article.
I did it finally, as we are not only made of HIV, but also of many others things, and among them, a heart and a brain.

Ok, I'm facing the most common question on "heart" for a poz, about dating someone.
I don't want to use dating website,especially because most of them require a CC to enter in contact with your favorite, and so it force you to provide personal details, what I don't want.

Now, the second option is to meet someone as usual, in the real life.
Here the same problem as for the CC occurs, you have to provide your details, and disclose your status.
The problem is that you can't predict the reaction of your partner, despite if you feel you can read in him/her; so what if she/he take the mic and do a public announcement ? Or just saying to one, and everybody knows.

So I'm not a kid, so I won't ask you "how to meet someone" cause anyway, I know.
But just about your experience in this field. How did you meet your partners. Experience and maybe recommendations.

Hops none of you will be upset by this question. Just decided to make it happen. Well, we all have been there no ?

[Matty the Damned]

Matty the Damned has learned that, AIDS or no AIDS, romance is dead. He has resigned himself to a life of crushing loneliness and bitter isolation.

You can draw from that what you will.

MtD

[BT65]

I agree with the Damned One.  I have found no one worth the time or effort.  And those that are, well, it's just too late.  I've grown into a grumpy old spinster.

[John2038]

encouraging statements !
But I bet you haven't try enough hard, or that you have not left to do.

[Joe K]

I do not know if you live in the US, but in most states it is against the law to reveal anyone's status.  That said, you always have the risk of someone telling your status, but I had it happen only once in 23 years.  Given our status, that is just a risk you will have to take, but I doubt that anyone you fell in "like" with, would do that to you, assuming you disclose before any heavy sexual activity.

As to encouragement, I can offer plenty.  I was dating a negative guy when I found out I was positive.  The night I gave him the news, he responded by saying: "Neither of us should spend the night alone tonight."  We went on to have a beautiful four year relationship, intense sex and all and he remains negative to this day.  After him I had a relationship with the wacko from hell, who abused everything and everyone and after three years, I had to put him into jail to get away from him.  After that I figured that love just was not in the cards for me anymore and I stopped looking.

Fate would have it that I responded to a personal ad a year later and thought I might as well try meeting people and if something develops, then great, but if not, at least I would have some new friends.  The first time I met Stephen in person, it was like love at first sight.  He had also been in an abusive relationship with a drug fiend (just like me) and so we both knew what we did not want in a relationship and all the rest is negotiable.  We had so much in common, as we both worked as computer technicians and enjoyed many of the same things.  But we were also very different.  He does drag and I am part of the leather community.

All of that just made us more interesting and we fell hard and fast for each other.  I married Stephen in December, 2001 and we are going on our ninth year together.  We recently moved from the States to Canada, where I am a citizen, so we could enjoy the true meaning of being married.  I shudder to think where I might be today, if it had not been for one small personal ad, I read, on that fateful day.

[Matty the Damned]

encouraging statements !
But I bet you haven't try enough hard, or that you have not left to do.

You can bet in one hand and shit in the other one kid. Tell Matty the Damned which one gets full first.

You've got a pretty high sense of entitlement John. You strut in here and expect us to tell you that everything is going to be just peachy-keen.

Well guess what champion?

It ain't.

In case you didn't read the fine print, you've got HIV and, given the current state of affairs, that pretty much means you're going to die early.

So just in case you thought you're going to give Mama some grandbabies you might want to think again.

Now honey you can dig up all the studies and research and whatnots that google scholar will give you. Fuck me dead, you can even get Tim Horn to sign off on them, but it ain't gonna save you.

You've got HIV and eventually HIV leads to AIDS and the last time I checked:

AIDS == DEATH.

Rationalise it all you want, but you can't escape that inexorable truth.

So if you can find something encouraging in all of this, I invite you to point it out.

Since you seem to know so fucking much.

MtD

[John2038]

MtD, why fear dying ?

I don't now. Just looking for a way to enjoy the time we have as usual, as before. 

[John2038]

killfoile thank's for sharing your story and its nice conclusions.
I'm very happy that you have found your soulmate, and wishes all the best together. 
To answer your question, I'm from EU.

[Matty the Damned]

MtD, why fear dying ?

I don't now. Just looking for a way to enjoy the time we have as usual, as before.

Listen kid, you can do many things around here but never, ever try to verbal Matty the Damned.

At no time have I ever been afraid of death. I accept it for what it is.

You'd be much better off if you did the same. I've buried more people than you'll ever meet.

And before you fire off some broken english prattle about "I so do totally love agree that life is everthink as usuall!!"  maybe you might want to take some time to actually read these forums.

Or more pointedly the AIDSmeds Blogs.

MtD

[John2038]

MtD, no comments on what you say 

[Matty the Damned]

MtD, no comments on what you say

Well of course not. You've never made a comment of any substance here since you joined, why would you start now?

That's your passive-aggressive style isn't it John? The moment you hear something you don't like you shriek about how mean people are and when you can't intimidate them with your histrionic carry on, you either say nothing or post some bland smilie.

Frankly I think you make the most sense when you say nothing at all.



MtD

[John2038]

I totally agree with you MtD!  Does it make you feel better ?

[Matty the Damned]

No honey, you just don't have that much impact. To be blunt you're like the mosquito in everyones ear, you just never shut the fuck up.

But remember this, I'm an arrogant man with an overinflated sense of my own self-importance and so are you.

We have that in common.

Unlike you honey, I have the experiences and the resources to carry it off. You don't. I've tried to tolerate you, really I have. I've struggled to answer your mind-numbingly backwards questions and I've often avoided how rude you've been to members of these forums who've dealt with you in good faith.

But no more.

Since you're so wise, Oh Great Knower of Things, I condemn you to do the AIDS thing on your own.

See how far you get then.

This conversation is over.

MtD

[John2038]

Just an unreal reaction, argumentation. God Bless You man.

[BT65]

John, you've been on my shit-list ever since you got nasty with Doxie and me.  And now I have a third reason. 

Just an unreal reaction, argumentation. God Bless You man.

These are words spoken by a person who thinks he can give a semi-intelligent tongue-lashing to a person who disagrees with a much fantasized-about world.  Face it, you're HIV+.  You're (probably) going to develop AIDS.  You seem to want to come on here and be in denial about what it is you actually have, and then want everyone to applaud your prattling on and give an encouraging wink. 

I don't know what else to tell you, John.  We've tried to give our honest opinions, but you just rip them to shreds.  Ah well, life goes on and on it will go.

[leatherman]

Obviously having HIV and/or AIDS makes life more difficult, including finding romance. Some have obviously given up hope of finding it. I understand. I felt much the same way for a long time. However, here's a more, if you'll pardon this trite overused pun, positive story that might give you some hope John2038.

After my partner died in 1994, I was quite a sick guy for many years. Well, sick doesn't begin to describe it. I was hospitalized with PCP and my HIV became AIDS. I had to quit working; my counts all went to hell in a handbasket; I lost my job; I went onto SS disability; I was hospitalized again with pneumonia; I went through med after med, suffering side effects galore. This went on for about 10 yrs, just barely avoiding several more trips to the hospital.

During all that time, I never thought about love, or even sex. First, I was too sick to care about either. Since two yrs before my partner passed (because he had no sex drive) until almost 10 yrs afterward (that's a total of 12 years!) I didn't have sex with anyone. Nor did I want it, thanks to the med side effects, depression, etc. Secondly, I would never want to pass this disease on to another person. The easiest way to achieve that is of course to not have sex.

But, as many people here can attest, the meds have greatly changed over the years. Finally my doctor and I got a nice "salvage regimen" that didn't make me puke every damned day (just a dozen times a month now LOL). After 10 yrs, I finally even reached an undetectable status for the first time. And miracle of miracles, I actually began to feel better (still not great - with more bad days than good and a viral load that won't stay down); but good enough to realize I just might live for a few years. For the first time in nearly 15 yrs of having doctors tell me that I had "three months or so left", I could actually begin to hope and imagine that I might live until the next year.

Now to bring this sorry sad story around to your topic of romance. Through all those years of sickness, one of our (my late partner and I) best friends was always there for me. Even when he was dating, he stayed my best friend even when that caused problems in his relationships. But after years of dating, no "perfect" man ever showed up for my friend. Eventually, it ended up just him and I pal-ing around. I'm no dummy though and realized he was staying around because he was wanted more from our relationship - but more than I could give. I had buried a partner and know that grief - I'd never wish that on my worst enemy much less someone that I cared for. I was determined to not let anyone love me lest I put them in that type of situation because of my own poor health.

But, as I said, these newer meds were working for me and death no longer seemed as imminent. So I talked to my moms about the situation. I'm very lucky to have THREE moms - my real one, my mom-in-law (the late partner's mother) and my Ohio mom (a woman who befriended me and the late partner when we moved here. She's fed me nearly every Sunday dinner for 20yrs and her kids tell strangers I'm their other brother). All my moms told me the same thing - that they loved me, and when I died they would all be devastated, regardless of whether I was their "real" child or not. They told me it would be the same thing with my friend. Whether we was just "friends" or actual "partners", if I died, he would feel the loss just as bad; so why they should I miss out on having his love until then? Well, there's no way I could refuse the logic of three moms.

We just celebrated our third "official" anniversary together, though it's probably been more like seven yrs that we've been together. Am I still concerned about him having to take care of me while I'm sick? Yes, but he's known about my condition for all these years and has truly seen me at the worst (when I checked out of the hospital AMA that second time to go home to die). Am I worried about putting him through the grief of my death? Hell yes! but there' nothing I can do about that. AIDS has nearly killed me four times, I'm sure it'll eventually accomplish it. As I'm about to turn 46 next month, I can imagine being alive at least a few years more; but I still have great doubt that I'll ever reach 50.

My friends will tell you that I am the rational one, the level-headed one, the one who plans too much. When people ask my opinion, I tell them that love-at-first-sight doesn't happen (they're just confused between lust and love). I would never tell anyone to believe that love could then happen a second time. But in my heart, I do know that these things happen, because they happened to me. I fell in love with Randy when I first saw him dancing to Prince's "Baby I'm a Star" on Christmas night 1984. Within two weeks, we were living together. My only regret is that he died 6 months before we could celebrate 10 yrs together. Then after many years of sickness and grief, a second man, Jim, has brought love into my life once again. The only thing I might regret in this relationship is that, as he is neg, we might not get to celebrate our 10 yrs together either. Only time will tell.

I think that as long as you're alive (and especially if you're fairly healthy and now that meds are even better and there is more of possiblity of having HIV and NOT dying), you should keep the hope of finding love. I can't promise it'll be easy. I can't even promise that you'll find it. HIV and AIDS does make the situation harder; but it doesn't make finding and having love impossible.

best of luck to you!
mikie

[John2038]

Dear leatherman,

Thank you very much for your testimony.
I am touched by it, and I wish you really to live much longer and happier.

What surprises me, however, is that as a general rule, it seems that many HIV-positive renounce to love or no longer believe in it.

I feel it in your testimony as well, when you say:

I think that as long as you're alive (and especially if you're fairly healthy and now that meds are even better and there is more of possibility of having HIV and dying NOT), you should keep the hope of finding love. I can not promise it'll be easy. I can not even promise that you'll find it. HIV and AIDS does make the situation harder, but it does not make finding and having love impossible.

I know that you talk in general terms and that you surely say something true, but I am just a little puzzled
on this general sentiment.

Indeed, I think that the conclusion would be quite something like: HIV doesn't affect really love, many have found it and are happy.

Your story is inspiring. You crossed a lot of testing, and I hope with all my heart that you will be happy for many years.

Thanks.

[leatherman]

What surprises me, however, is that as a general rule, it seems that many HIV-positive renounce to love or no longer believe in it.

I know that you talk in general terms and that you surely say something true, but I am just a little puzzled on this general sentiment.

Indeed, I think that the conclusion would be quite something like: HIV doesn't affect really love, many have found it and are happy.

I think the sentiments differ because times are different.

When one expects to die within a short amount of time, then love and companionship is not high on a list of "things to do in life". In 92 when my late partner and I were diagnosed, having HIV was a death sentence. It was only 18 months later that my partner passed away. I believed that my HIV would progress too (especially having stopped taking the only med available AZT at that time) and within another 2 yrs I would die also. I very nearly did die with PCP in the hospital just 2 yrs later. Personally, I never expected to be well enough again, or lucky enough, to fall in love with a second great guy, and it took me a decade to acknowledge it in my own head and sort out my feelings.

Nowadays the meds are making a dramatic different. Now when you're diagnosed, they tell you that you may live out a normal lifespan. That's much different from 18 months. With only 18 months, you plan on your funeral.  If you have your whole life though, well, then anything, including love, is possible. 

But we're still in a transition time of thinking here in there forums. Some are on once-a-day meds, and are doing well. They shouldn't give up their dreams, ambitions, or search for love. Some of us though are sick or not doing well with the meds, and love is just something they can't afford to waste time on.

Although I'm a "realist", I usually get bashed in these threads for being "pessimistic". The reality of my situation is that I've had 15 yrs struggling with meds to keep this infection from killing me - and it's a struggle I have very nearly lost several times. It's a struggle I may not be able to keep doing for much longer. I am "living with AIDS". I understand why I came to this site - to find out more info. I wish I had come here sooner and I might have gotten more support through these years and difficulties I have had.

However, personally, I don't understand why there are so many members here regularly who either aren't on meds or are on some one-a-day plan doing well. I believe that they should go live their lives (and find their loves). Instead they hang out here, worried or fretting, and telling other members that we're just too pessimistic. We're not pessimists; we're just being realistic about our lives and limited futures. I think there's a HUGE difference in "living with HIV" and "living with AIDS".

Though I thought MtD and Betty were harsh in their posts, I do understand their opinions. They have dealt with this illness in their lives for a long time, just as I have. We're all a little jaded by time and circumstances to be expecting the best things in life to come our way. I sure didn't go looking for love - heck, I even avoided it for years - and never expected to find it a second time. That's just not something that happens to someone while they sick, fighting a terminal illness.

I told my story for that reason. This is a site for people dealing with a terminal illness. For the most part, love is out of the question, when you're very life is in question. However, you are right too. For many people, whose HIV is "chronic, manageable", there's still plenty of hope out there for life and love. If someone "living with AIDS" can find love then there's no reason others can't too. I believe that if someone is well (ie not on meds, one a day pill, "living with HIV", etc) then they need to quit hanging out here with a bunch of sick people and their problems and go live life. A happy life. And maybe even find love.

  mikie

[Queen Tokelove]

Matty the Damned has learned that, AIDS or no AIDS, romance is dead. He has resigned himself to a life of crushing loneliness and bitter isolation.

You can draw from that what you will.

MtD

You know Her Majesty would sell her soul to the Horned One to be able to play house with you...

[leatherman]

since we're interrupting this thread for a minute:

hey Queen! Glad to see you back! You sure had the troops worried. 

Me and the other half were just watching "Queen of the Damned" yesterday and I was thinking about you.

[Queen Tokelove]

Leatherman---- Ah, yes, the movie and where I got my name. Of course, I have the movie too but the Vampire Chronicle books were way better. It warmed my cold heart to see the masses worried about me. Thanks for thinking of me....

Sorry to hijack for a brief moment now back to the topic at hand. Personally, I do not worry about dying, it is inevitable. I just would not like to die alone and would like to know what love is before doing so. Call me vain but I use to be concerned about how I would look when I died. I wanted to look good but then I grew up. Honestly, it doesn't matter anyway because I want to be cremated. But if I was to be in a coffin and become worm food, I would want to go out the same way I came in....butt ass naked.

I guess I still feel that love will find it's way to me some day. I try to remain hopeful or it's the good green that keeps me that way, I don't know which.

[John2038]

Leatherman I fully understand your point of view on this disease and that love may no longer be a priority.

I guess also that with the time, the will or the hope to start a new relationship can decline.

But if this disease is a difficult test, love is always a nice event.
Sure it may no longer be a priority, but someone with a similar condition exists in every cities in this world.

So why remove love from the todo list ?
You said yourself that in 92, you did not think being here for a long time. But we are now 15 years later.

I admire you for your courage. And for the fact that despite this disease, you take the time to explain the things with kindness.

When you speak about infected (but "healthy") people who spend their time on the forums instead of enjoying life, I can give you my point of view.

Write an article takes 10 minutes. Read the answers, respond to them take maybe 20 min.
So the effective time spent on the internet is maybe of 1-2h depending on the day of the week.
I think that the Internet is sometimes misleading.
It gives the feeling that people have spend their time on the forum between 2 posts, but I'm convinced that the truth is that most of us are doing a lot of things in between.

Finally, I also wanted to give you my views concerning the stabilization of the disease.

I am infected with HIV since 18 months, but I can not predict more than you how much time I have left.
I just decided to not think about this disease. Not because my health allows me to do so, but because
"it will come when it will happen".

As such, I really don't think that there is a big difference between the newly infected and the others.
Remember yourself in 92 when you thought you won't be here for a long time, despite the fact that you was "newly" infected.
But the time you have live with this disease is different.
And I guess that this time can easily impact the moods many of the LTNP. So I can understand the moods of those people.

You have anzway taken the time to share your vision of the disease by sharing moments of your life and I would like to thank you for that again. Your testimony sheds light on how this disease can be felt. It also shows that even when nothing goes well, things can always improve. Because we never know, and that's all what we know.

Thank you

[leatherman]

Of course, I have the movie too but the Vampire Chronicle books were way better.
...
I guess I still feel that love will find it's way to me some day. I try to remain hopeful or it's the good green that keeps me that way, I don't know which.

I agree with you about the books. how many are in that series now? 7 ,8?? I liked Lestat much better in this movie. Cruise didn't play him enough as the "brat prince". but maybe that comes more after he bites Christ. LOL It was funny watching this flix too. I keep thinking, just wait David - you'll end up in another body and a vampire soon enough.  ;)The Mayfield Witches are pretty cool too.

Hope is a good thing to have. (well, so is the green  especially on days like today when I was puking from the meds again)

Back on the topic,
I think that's what was upsetting to John. So many have given up the hope. Especially after being infected with HIV. Not only do you have to face up to your own mortality (tick tick tick goes the clock even faster now) but sex becomes troublesome and problematic. (me and the neggie partner do it safely; but there's that .0001% risk or whatever that plays in my mind).

As I told John, it's hard to think about love when just living is a task. We all are here with the same problem but in such different situations. Whereas, me in my mid 40s ,coming up on 2 decades of dealing with AIDS, might not have any interest in finding love (like betty and mtd have said they don't in their situations), I don't think any of us here would tell Mouse (he's still under 20, right?) not to keep on looking for love. Matter of fact, I think it's worth encouraging those kinds of people (like Mouse, John2038, etc) to continue living. and to continue looking for love.

It's got to be a downer to them sometimes listening to us jaded old-timers moaning and groaning about it all. (that's why I added that part about them going out and living it up rather than hangin out with us. LOL) Even though we're here with the same problem, we're actually in very different situations and the truth for one person to live by is not the truth for someone else.

I see John just posted something, so I'll finish up my thoughts in answer to him.

  mikie

[leatherman]

I guess also that with the time, the will or the hope to start a new relationship can decline.

You said yourself that in 92, you did not think being here for a long time. But we are now 15 years later.
...
As such, I really don't think that there is a big difference between the newly infected and the others.
Remember yourself in 92 when you thought you want be there for long despite the fact that you was not infected since so long.
But the time you have spend living with this disease is different.
And I guess that this time can easily impact the moods many of the LTNP.

Hey again John,

See that's part of what I was telling Queen about similar problem/different situation. In the 90s, things were such that my partner was dead in 18 months, our friends had died, and I was in the hospital within 2 yrs of my diagnosis very close to death. Needless to say, being only 30, the last thing I had ever thought about was what would happen to my body with me living 600 miles from my family, without even a partner anymore to handle those duties.

Barely beating death, I went back home to "recouperate" from the pnuemonia. I made funeral arrangements. I made peace with my friends and family. I started clearing my house to save my relatives that hard experience. I never expected to make new friends, find a new partner or anything. I never expected to see the next year. Staying sickly, this condition went on for years (ah, this is the disadvantage to the newer meds. I'm alive but the cost is that I'm still very sickly, and I've lost my job and my house. The thought of living on disability into my 50s scares the heck outta me as it's hardly enough to live on. Whatever will I do if these meds keep working well and I live to 60? but that's another thread in itself) I just never expected to not only outlive my partner; but our 6 cocker spaniels from the first pack.  In Dec, I buried a dog from the second pack. I've now even outlived a dog my partner never even knew! I sure never expected this life.

So in 92, when I was diagnosed with HIV because I took the test after my partner was feverish for a month, things were bleak. I quit taking the AZT (the only drug available) because it was literally killing me faster than my partner was dying without any medications. Today is much different. Today if you're diagnosed with an early test (instead of when you are in the hospital with an OI), it may be yrs before you start the meds and deal with the side effects. Then when drugs are started things are different. Many many people now take Atripla once a day, go to work, live their lives, and go skiing or whatever (find love!)

I think there is a HUGE difference in the opinions of the newly diagnosed (within 5ish yrs) and those diagnosed 10+ yrs ago. We'll probably never agree on many things because although we have the same illness, the situations are just too different to even be compared.

It gives the feeling that people have spend their time on the forum between 2 posts, but I'm convinced that the truth is that most of us are doing a lot of things in between.

ain't that the truth. LOL During these posts, I washed dishes, played with the dogs, puked , vacuumed the house, and tried to figure out what to make for dinner when my other half gets home. Plus I tried to take time to really compose an answer for you. Instant messages are good for quick retorts but I always try to work on and give some thought to what I post in a forum.

I admire you for your courage. And for the fact that despite this disease, you take the time to explain the things with kindness.

You have taken the time to share your vision of the disease by sharing moments of your life and I would like to thank you for that again. Your testimony sheds light on how this disease can be felt. It also shows that even when nothing goes well, things can always improve. Because we never know, and that's all what we know.

Think nothing of it.  I've always tried to be polite (gotta make my Southern momma happy and prove that she raised me right) and I've always been honest. I know my story sounds bleak at times (and I've always been such a happy guy that that really bothers me) but I never tell the tales to get sympathy. I tell them to spur people to ENJOY THE LIFE YOU HAVE. Every day I've been alive since march 14th, 1996 when PCP nearly killed me on my birthday has been an EXTRA day and I try to cherish each one. A good day is a day the sun shines. A GREAT day is a day that the sun shines, and I don't puke! LOL I see so many people being miserable and think how can they be that way? Don't they realize how fleeting today is? How quickly life can be gone? Even on my worst days, I hope for the best and never expect the worse; because, as you'd agreed, who knows what tomorrow will really bring.

mikie
(who doesn't expect a cure in his lifetime; but has hope that the meds will keep getting better!)

[John2038]

I have read your answer and I will answer better tomorrow (2am here   ).

But many thanks for the positive spirit that you hold.
In your own way, and without knowing it, you give a lot of energy to the others.
I say this for your interest in the life and your positive mind that allows you to be here today and always appreciate a sun that shines, despite all the things you have been through !
Really, sincerely. Think about it. Bravo !

[Queen Tokelove]

Leatherman--- I have yet to read about the Witches. The only book that bored me a bit in regard to the Vamp Chronicles was the one about Armand, who was a child vampire but in the first one he was an adult and in the second one he seemed almost like a young adult with a childish face. I thought Cruise did a good job playing Lestat considering the time period that it was. Stuart Townsend gave me fever and I thought he was excellent as Lestat and performing as a rocker. I actually like some of the songs from the movie and listen to them every now and then.

Ah, well in my situation, I have not given up hope but am through with looking and being constantly disappointed. Most times this is before I am even considering telling a dude my status. Something always happens that turns me off from a person. I have tried going about it from a purely physical standpoint and the sex can be out of this world but I am still yearning for more. Or someone with substance whom I can connect with on some level. As I like to say, seduce my mind and my body will surely follow... Over here, it is almost like pulling teeth to try to hold conversations with men. It seems like I run across the ones who would like to be wannabe rappers or gangsters. And can barely hold a conversation without cursing every other sentence. I know I tend to curse from time to time and sometimes uses a bit of slang but I can talk w/o it too. I don't find gangsters appealing. They either end up in jail or dead, been there, done that.

Or I get the ones who are old enough to be my father. Uh, I didn't request a Sugar Daddy with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. And this isn't The Color Purple and my name sure as hell ain't Celie. And I have even come across a few young ones who want to "holla" at me. Unless I am without my hearing aids, I don't appreciate anyone trying to holla at me. And I don't think pants hanging past your ass so I can see your boxers particularly appealing. Make me want to go grab a diaper and change their ass. Last time I knew, I was fixed and I don't recall pushing anyone else out other than my kids. I could really go on and on but I am just showing you what I have to work with over here living in the mistake on the lake.

[leatherman]

I am just showing you what I have to work with over here living in the mistake on the lake.

there's a bunch of places with that nick. LOL I've been here by the football hall of fame just 50 miles S of Ohio's mistake on the lake - the good old city of cleveland - for 20+ yrs.

hey, like I told john, it ain't easy finding love  and you just might not find it either.   But I think don't think that love is out of the question just because someone has HIV.

I think I can understand both sides of the coin though.

I got things worked out in my head after losing Randy and really was quite okay about being alone. I even took some pride in handling my life alone; but that's because I had felt so damaged by losing him. When you lose your other half - then you're nothing but half a person. But I found out that being alone wasn't the end of my life.

I'm sure if I'd never had such a great guy though, I'd still be moaning about the prospects on the market and looking for someone. I did try to get back on the dating scene for a while there near the start of the 2000s but there's that disclosure problem, internalized stigma, etc. - all that fun HIV-baggage. Even with my problems, as I started feeling healthier, I "tried" to find companionship, friendship, a life outside my life alone as a hermit.

I guess it's inherit in our natures to not want to be alone. I never did; but did come to terms with it when I had to. That's why I was so surprised to end up in a quandrey of trying to NOT have a relationship with my current partner. Even when I got the right meds to finally work for me, the HIV was doing a number on my head. I was afraid of infecting him. But I was more afraid of him having to grieve my loss. I've got no control of that so it's just a useless worry. I have enough problems without having to create any, so I took the chance and took the plunge. So far I don't regret it either; although it is weird having someone go to my doctor appts with me. (and he steals my blankets in the night!)

My conclusion then is that finding love is dicey no matter what. HIV just complicates it, but doesn't neccesarily mean the search is called off. I think as long as you've got some health and a will to live, it's not to late to try to find someone.

In deference to the others, I will say, does this mean you have to find someone? No, of course not. There's nothing wrong with being on your own. But you do need to reach a point though where you like yourself and your life. Sometimes life just doesn't give you the right opportunity and you have to handle it all by yourself.

well, it's nearly 1am in the states now, john, and I'm off to bed. I can't believe I rambled on so much in this thread. 

mikie

[MOONLIGHT1114]

I never gave up hope and I have found love.  I had to grow a thick skin, I had to face rejection from many dates and I had to remind myself that it wasn't me, it was them.  It was "them" looking at my virus, and not me as a person.  I am glad I persevered, just read the Dating Threads,   .

My infamous quote: "No one will know you exist unless you try."

And sometimes try and try again.........

~ Cindy

[SteveA]

We all meet people the same way now that we did before we became HIV+. We put ourselves out there and reach out to others hoping we won't be  punched in the face and/or shot down for being who we are. HIV is just one more negative in our proverbial basket of what we have to offer our future partners. The trick seems to be like Moonlight said. Growing a thick enough skin to survive all the bricks, bats and rejections we have to go through in order to meet that person who will love us in spite of what's in our particular easter baskets.

[DanielMark]

So I'm not a kid, so I won't ask you "how to meet someone" cause anyway, I know.
But just about your experience in this field. How did you meet your partners. Experience and maybe recommendations.

John,

I met my two longest-lasting mates through different avenues – one for ten years and my current boyfriend of more than three. Both of these relationships have been with HIV negative men. I believe it’s important to meet a potential love interest with an open mind to possibilities. If someone is reasonably intelligent, acceptance of you being HIV+ won’t be an issue. A lot of people seem to think that it’s hopeless that way, but I assure you it’s not. If you go into something thinking it’ll fail, then it likely will. Self-fulfilling prophecies, I think that’s called.

Another important thing to me is not to have too many absolutes in terms of what you want in a mate. People are not made to order. If you know you have something to offer, then you will likely find someone who has something compatible to offer you too. And being okay with being on my own is also important to me. My boyfriend and I live apart and get together a few times a week. Neither of us really wants it any other way so it works out well.

If you don’t believe there’s love after HIV, then there won’t be, but you could risk becoming bitter if you go down that path. Keep your eyes and more importantly your heart open and you just might be surprised one day. That’s usually when I fell in love – when I least expected it.

Daniel

[John2038]

question
How did you meet your partner. Experience and maybe recommendations.

leatherman explains that the search of the soulmate may no longer be part of the todo list for many people, making the distinction between two populations:

I think there's a HUGE difference in "living with HIV" and "living with AIDS".

His conclusion is

This is a site for people dealing with a terminal illness. For the most part, love is out of the question, when you're very life is in question. However, you are right too. For many people, whose HIV is "chronic, manageable", there's still plenty of hope out there for life and love. If someone "living with AIDS" can find love then there's no reason others can't too. I believe that if someone is well (ie not on meds, one a day pill, "living with HIV", etc) then they need to quit hanging out here with a bunch of sick people and their problems and go live life. A happy life. And maybe even find love.

Queen Akasha is in the side of the "little optimistic"

Personally, I do not worry about dying, it is inevitable. I just would not like to die alone and would like to know what love is before doing so.
..
I guess I still feel that love will find it's way to me some day. I try to remain hopeful or it's the good green that keeps me that way, I don't know which.

The argument then focused on the distinction made by leatherman :

Finally, I also wanted to give you my views concerning the stabilization of the disease.

I am infected with HIV since 18 months, but I can not predict more than you how much time I have left.
I just decided to not think about this disease. Not because my health allows me to do so, but because
"it will come when it will happen".

As such, I really don't think that there is a big difference between the newly infected and the others.
Remember yourself in 92 when you thought you won't be here for a long time, despite the fact that you was "newly" infected.
But the time you have live with this disease is different.
And I guess that this time can easily impact the moods many of the LTNP. So I can understand the moods of those people.

leatherman back on this distinction, saying that:

As I told John, it's hard to think about love when just living is a task. We all are here with the same problem but in such different situations. Whereas, me in my mid 40s ,coming up on 2 decades of dealing with AIDS, might not have any interest in finding love (like betty and mtd have said they don't in their situations), I don't think any of us here would tell Mouse (he's still under 20, right?) not to keep on looking for love. Matter of fact, I think it's worth encouraging those kinds of people (like Mouse, John2038, etc) to continue living. and to continue looking for love.

Queen Akasha come back to the question to declare her HIV status.

Ah, well in my situation, I have not given up hope but am through with looking and being constantly disappointed. Most times this is before I am even considering telling a dude my status. Something always happens that turns me off from a person.

Leatherman answers to Queen Akasha to says also that love is possible for everyone

hey, like I told john, it ain't easy finding love  Cheesy and you just might not find it either. Roll Eyes  But I think don't think that love is out of the question just because someone has HIV.

I think I can understand both sides of the coin though.
..
I got things worked out in my head after losing Randy and really was quite okay about being alone.
..
I'm sure if I'd never had such a great guy though, I'd still be moaning about the prospects on the market and looking for someone.
..
I guess it's inherit in our natures to not want to be alone. I never did; but did come to terms with it when I had to.
..
My conclusion then is that finding love is dicey no matter what. HIV just complicates it, but doesn't neccesarily mean the search is called off. I think as long as you've got some health and a will to live, it's not to late to try to find someone.

In deference to the others, I will say, does this mean you have to find someone? No, of course not.

killfoile talks about the disclosure int the US

in the US, but in most states it is against the law to reveal anyone's status.
..
Given our status, that is just a risk you will have to take, but I doubt that anyone you fell in "like" with, would do that to you, assuming you disclose before any heavy sexual activity.

For killfoile love is possible

As to encouragement, I can offer plenty.
..
The night I gave him the news, he responded by saying: "Neither of us should spend the night alone tonight."
We went on to have a beautiful four year relationship, intense sex and all and he remains negative to this day.
..
Fate would have it that I responded to a personal ad a year later and thought I might as well try meeting people and if something develops, then great, but if not, at least I would have some new friends.
..  I met Stephen .. We had so much in common .. But we were also very different.
..
I married Stephen in December, 2001 and we are going on our ninth year together.  We recently moved from the States to Canada, where I am a citizen, so we could enjoy the true meaning of being married.  I shudder to think where I might be today, if it had not been for one small personal ad, I read, on that fateful day.

MOONLIGHT1114 have meet her love

I never gave up hope and I have found love.  I had to grow a thick skin, I had to face rejection from many dates and I had to remind myself that it wasn't me, it was them.  It was "them" looking at my virus, and not me as a person.  I am glad I persevered, just read the Dating Threads,   Wink.

My infamous quote: "No one will know you exist unless you try."

SteveA makes no real difference between the two side

We all meet people the same way now that we did before we became HIV+.
..
HIV is just one more negative in our proverbial basket of what we have to offer our future partners
..
Growing a thick enough skin to survive all the bricks, bats and rejections we have to go through in order to meet that person who will love us in spite of what's in our particular easter baskets

DanielMark
Has also met his soulmate (HIV negative men), and explains how.

I believe it’s important to meet a potential love interest with an open mind to possibilities. If someone is reasonably intelligent, acceptance of you being HIV+ won’t be an issue. A lot of people seem to think that it’s hopeless that way, but I assure you it’s not. If you go into something thinking it’ll fail, then it likely will. Self-fulfilling prophecies, I think that’s called.
..
That’s usually when I fell in love – when I least expected it.

General conclusion
Meet the soul mate is about fighting, believing, and love is always possible for everyone .. especially if we did not expect it to come.

   
Of course, this seems perfectly logical.

To be more practical.
Let a person interested in you.
You are going to dinner together, and your partner (neg) tells you: "I love you".
You are POZ
How do you deal with this situation (experience, recommendation) ?

[Dachshund]

MOONLIGHT1114 Met his love
 

[bosco]

I don't have any experience finding romance since I've become +, however in the three or so weeks that I've know I was +, I've begun to make several friends.
So if you want romance and amke that a priority, you'll probably find someone. However I always found people seem to find a relationship when they least expect it.

[Dachshund]

General conclusion
Meet the soul mate is about fighting, believing, and love is always possible for everyone .. especially if we did not expect it to come.

  
Of course, this seems perfectly logical.

To be more practical.
Let a person interested in you.
You are going to dinner together, and your partner (neg) tells you: "I love you".
You are POZ
How do you deal with this situation (experience, recommendation) ?

Logical and practical? Maybe this topic should be moved to research?

If your "date" is already telling you they love you and have no idea you're poz. Well, I'd wait before registering at Target.

[John2038]

Logical and practical? Maybe this topic should be moved to research?

Not a study or a theory.

If your "date" is already telling you they love you and have no idea you're poz. Well, I'd wait before registering at Target.

Thanks to give arguments. 

[Dachshund]

Not a study or a theory.

Unfortunately you seem to want to reduce it to both.

[John2038]

Why ?

[Dachshund]

Why ?

John, it's like teabagging a mountain goat, you just know there's a but coming.

[Queen Tokelove]

I do believe love is possible for everyone but it is much harder for the poz person as we all know. And yes, a neg person can declare love for someone despite that person being poz(assuming the neg person knows the other person's status) and they live happily ever after. But let's flip to the other side of the coin, shall we. The neg declares their love for the poz person(not knowing status) but then the poz person feels the need to disclose their status since the neg says it's love. Of course, there is going to be a bit of shock from the neg person and prolly some silence. Now this can go 2 different ways. The neg can say it doesn't matter and they live happily ever after or the neg person can do a 180 and end the relationship. Now say the person ends the relationship? Where is the love then? Or was it really love in the first place? How does a poz person pick up the pieces from something like that?

Love is hard for anyone to find even if you're not poz. But the chances become even more harder and frustrating when you are. Then some say, you got to know where to look. I would like to be enlightened on where to look? We all know how things are with the dating sites. And yeah, a person could look at a support group. For those of you who have found love with a neg or a poz, I am truly happy for you. But for those of us that are here struggling to find love, it is a very depressing thing.

Another thing, I have a question about is what Killfoile said. It is against the law for anyone to reveal someone's status. Now is that law only for those in the medical field or anyone? And what states enforce this law? You always hear about the law in regards to dislosing but never on revealing someone's status. Killefoile or anyone knowing more about this?

[next2u]

to mtd

wow, aids = death. having hiv means we are gonna die early. i've been thinking about that all day. and i probably will continue to thing about it for a while. i know this is one hella of a tangent, but i guess i had kinda ignored that reality.

i'd recently glimpsed upon one or two hiv articles proporting average life spans for hiv positive folks (assuming they have no other serious preexisting conditions and have access to medical care). i've also read that more and more hiv poz folk are dieing from other chronic/degenerative diseases. this information gave me hope, and allowed me to place some of my hiv concerns on the backburner.

shit, shit, shit. i don't really know what to say to that. i was all freaked out - measuring how much quality i would be able to fit into a reduced life span. 10 years from the first dr, 27 from another, then an average life span back to "you will die early" from mtd. that definitely puts a damper on my upcoming romantic pursuits. i don't think im ready to deal with issues surrounding my mortality, and the fact that it was so brazenly put, even if it wasnt directed to me, has somewhat fucked with my head. i am not ready to embrace this reality. i've barely got my head around other facets of this disease. not to mention the plethora of ongoing issues in the rest of my life.

damnit. 

[SteveA]

Aids=Death? What can I say to that? Ummm... Being Born = Death! We all die eventually and nobody really knows when they'll cross that great divide. It's not what kills us that matters. It's what makes us live and what we do with our lives that counts. I'd say it depends on your outlook and what you want to focus on. If you focus on dying, you'll lead a pretty miserable existence and probably waste a lot of great opportunities. If you focus on living and taking advantage of every opportunity you'll still die, but I believe you'll die happier than if you never tried.

[BT65]

Well, I'm still a bitter spinster.

[next2u]

and im becoming more jaded : )

my poz men's group moderator read this quote the other day:

Life should not be a journey to the grave with intention of arriving safely in an attractive, well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, screaming "whew,what a ride!"

id like my earlier death to be arrived at after a well lived life.

[Assurbanipal]

That one's life expectancy may be shorter than the average hardly seems a reason to give up on love.  Life expectancy in the US went up about one year per decade in the 20th centrury (for men).  So even if HIV cuts 10 years off the life expectancy, that merely puts you back into the shoes of your grandparents -- and they did not give up on love because life was fleeting! 

A few voices from the past:

The grave's a fine and private place,
But none I think do there embrace.

 Now therefore, while the youthful hue
Sits on thy skin like morning dew,
And while thy willing soul transpires
At every pore with instant fires,
Now let us sport us while we may;

Andrew Marvell, to his coy mistress

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/coy.htm

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may

Robert Herrick
http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/coy.htm


Cheers
Assurbanipal

[BT65]

Oh, I'm not "giving up" on love because of a shorter life expectancy.  I attribute my attitude to many foul experiences with a mixed bag of nuts who seemed to love nothing more than to watch me whore out my emotions too freely, only to be nailed to the cross by betrayal.

[Basquo]

Wow, I haven't seen an analysis of a thread with such quotes and bolded screen names since the Handshake of Doom.

I've loved, and fucked, done both at the same time and plenty of neither for some periods of time. I don't really miss either when I don't have them but I sure do enjoy it when I have both.

Like Queen, I don't want to die alone. I'm approaching that age (barely) when it's a good thing to live with someone, even if it's just a roommate, but I'd prefer to be really sharing a home with them, not just halving one. Plus I'm having an ant problem right now--that wouldn't be a pretty thing for the coroner to find.

[leatherman]

sometimes it's too much of an effort to look for love when:

a) you're older. this doesn't matter if you're poz or not. after 35 (just a generalization not an actual factoid), chances of love go down cause lots of people have already gotten hooked up
b) you're too jaded from having waded through all the jerks (betty explained this one well  )

or, and this may be the reason for some pozzies,
(like what MtD was alluding too, and behind the attitude that was bothering john starting this thread)
c) you're too sick. frankly AIDS is a terminal disease. for some staying semi-well is a chore all unto itself. when you're just trying to stay alive, love is a luxury not a neccesity.

(that's why I said there's a huge difference in attitudes for someone "living with HIV" and someone IMHO "dying from AIDS". I list myself in that latter category and wasn't looking for love myself. It was nothing but sheer luck to have a SECOND shot with love, especially after how many times I've already cheated death. Sometimes I still feel like I'm being unfair to my current partner knowing that our time together most than likely won't be that long; but he understood that risk before I would commit. My late partner didn't quite make it to our 10 yr anniversary. I hope I can make it 10 yrs with this partner - but I have my doubts.)

so there are reasons why "giving up" looking for love could be an option in your life. Just being poz is not enough of a reason though. an analogy would be that you might give up looking if you had an end-stage incurable cancer; but you could still hope to find love if you were just diagnosed with diabetes. That's why I've rambled on so much in this thread. I don't think a newbie (for want of a better word) should ever be told to give up on love. these newer meds might keep you around and well enough to work until you retire, so love is not out of the question. However, I personally can understand how this disease can bring your life to a point that love is something not attainable or not worth striving for.

We could even confuse this issue more though and discuss how much harder it is for gays (at least in most of the USA) to actually meet, date and form stable relationships due to lack of prospects, stigma, homophobia, ageism, and the bar/one-night-stand scene -
- much less disclosing a poz status
but since not every one here is queer, I was trying to keep my comments generic. 

Plus I'm having an ant problem right now--that wouldn't be a pretty thing for the coroner to find.

I just spewed Coke all over my screen.  thanks for the chuckle.
and thank you all for such an interesting discussion so far. I don't know if John is getting the answer he was looking for, but it's been a thought provoking topic.

mikie

[CowboyPOZ]

I found love after diagnosis. We have been together for 3 years now. We have a great life and we met online. Never give up hope. Love may not turn out to be exactly what you thought it would be in the clouded dreams of youth, but love finds us in many unexpected places at different times. Always keep faith you will find someone to love you and you can love in return. It will find you when you least expect it. Trust me. If I can find a cowboy in the middle of nowhere who accepts me for who I am, anyone can!

[John2038]

Just few quotes about some..

..POZ
By thinking anxiously about the future,
they forget the present,
such that they live neither in the future nor the present.

..NEG
They live as they will never die,
and die as though they had never live

Who enjoy the life then ?
Just live the present. Even the day we will die, we won't know.

[next2u]

damn leatherman, well said.

as a newbie, i haven't quite given up on love, but im hella jaded. that shit was well into the works before i became poz. the diagnosis was just the seal on the deal.
another thing i'd like to add to mike's list of impediments to gay dating is role models. straight romance is tough enough, but at least there are parents/adults to pull aside and have a drunken moment or memory sharing episode to help guide the heteros through love. then there are the fucked up love shows, albeit unrealistic, but still portraying a fantasy. we homos get bars and advice from people in the same boat. hopefully the next generation will have it better, they at least get more gay tv shows and books on love. then they have us, we are move visible and have fucked up (at least myself) a good many relationships to provide great what not to do advice.

now im just looking for someone as jaded/cynical/bitter as myself. its great to be romantic and optimistic, but that shit needs to be tempered by a strong dose or reality (credit to iggy on that one).

don't get me wrong, im really an optimist having a bad decade.

[DanielMark]

It's not what kills us that matters. It's what makes us live and what we do with our lives that counts. I'd say it depends on your outlook and what you want to focus on. If you focus on dying, you'll lead a pretty miserable existence and probably waste a lot of great opportunities.

I couldn't have said that any better, Steve.

I also believe that the best we can do is live our lives the best we can (despite any limitations) and keep aware of any potential for love. Unlike sex, falling in love, being in love, or growing together in love can't be made to order. Love decides that, not us. It’s out of our hands.

Daniel

[Buckmark]

I found love after diagnosis. We have been together for 3 years now. We have a great life and we met online. Never give up hope. Love may not turn out to be exactly what you thought it would be in the clouded dreams of youth, but love finds us in many unexpected places at different times. Always keep faith you will find someone to love you and you can love in return. It will find you when you least expect it. Trust me. If I can find a cowboy in the middle of nowhere who accepts me for who I am, anyone can!

I know that CowboyPoz's response above was totally well-intentioned, and that my response here is colored by my own recent experiences.  But how does anyone really know for certain that they will find someone to love and who will love them in return?  Life has very few guarantees, except that one will eventually die.

I agree that one has to remain hopeful if they expect to meet someone.  But I also think that one should learn to be happy even if they don't find that special someone.  Unfortunately for me, I don't think I've achieved either of these yet.

Regards,

Henry

[hartiepie]

If you decide you will not love anyone, you won't. If you decide that you can, then you might.

I can be sure not to win the lottery by not buying a ticket.

[Joe K]

To answer your query Queen, I have lived in both Michigan and Florida and they both have laws, that cover everyone, that makes it illegal for you to disclose the HIV status of another person.  I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted under the law, but I have made reference to it a few times, just to shut other people up about disclosing my status.  I will try and get copies of both and post them in another thread.

[dingowarrior]

I wish I never looked at this thread 

[Dachshund]

All effort to explain this topic in Dr. Philism's aside, most folks get their definition about romance by watching some Stepford looking couple hawking for eharmony.com and believing that their "soulmate" (whatever the hell that means) is just $49.99 and a click a way. If a couple of tubbies from Boise can find it, why can't I? The scripted answer is always you can't find love until you learn to love yourself. You're still are a dick, but if you find someone to put up with you, you somehow turned that magic corner and found self-love. What's probably closer to the truth is you stopped acting like a dick (for the time being) in order to snag someone. I think the statistics on the success rates of marriage alone bears that out.

You see we don't know what we're talking about. Our perception of romance is based on an illusion. If we were having this discussion a short two hundred years ago you would be negotiating with farmer Brown for the amount of cows needed to snag his daughter and that would suffice for romance.

[imjustagirl]

Matty the Damned has learned that, AIDS or no AIDS, romance is dead. He has resigned himself to a life of crushing loneliness and bitter isolation.

You can draw from that what you will.

MtD

While that may be the "realist" version of the situation, its kind of a bleak view of the world, dontcha think?

It may be new age-y, and maybe I'm not the one to be dispensing advice, but I think we get back what we put out into the world.  If we believe there is someone out there for us who will love us on our terms and accept us, flaws and all, that person will find us.  But if we stick to the belief that its hopeless,that no one will ever be able to see past a status or a habit or an illness, thats exaactly what Karma sends our way.  Thats true no matter WHAT your situation in life is. 

You may not even realize that you're thinking that way, but the proof is in the results.

I dunno, Matty.  I could let the "realities" of my life get me down, or I can pick myself up, dust myself off and CHOOSE to live the life I have.  Am I perfect at it? - of course not!  But at least I try and my life has been MILES better when I take the time to change my frame of mind.  Even if I fall down again, its better to look up than to look back down at the ground.

What do you have to lose except your crushing lonliness and bitter isolation?

[John2038]

If you decide you will not love anyone, you won't. If you decide that you can, then you might.

I can be sure not to win the lottery by not buying a ticket.

I fully agree 

Love exists, and it is the most beautiful thing that life can give us.
Without love, life is useless.

[Miss Philicia]

After reading this entire thread I'm still not sure what the purpose of it is.

[Queen Tokelove]

To answer your query Queen, I have lived in both Michigan and Florida and they both have laws, that cover everyone, that makes it illegal for you to disclose the HIV status of another person.  I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted under the law, but I have made reference to it a few times, just to shut other people up about disclosing my status.  I will try and get copies of both and post them in another thread.

Killfoile, Thanks because they sure don't make it know that it is illegal for anyone to disclose another's status. I think I definitely have a case.

After reading some of the posts, I will say there sure are some jaded mofos here... I think I am worth more than some stinking ass cow. But I see the points that are being made. I know love don't pay the bills but I would like to know that my potential partner sees me as more than just a piece of ass.

[Dachshund]

I fully agree 

Love exists, and it is the most beautiful thing that life can give us.
Without love, life is useless.

Paging Dr. Phil.

[Dachshund]

Killfoile, Thanks because they sure don't make it know that it is illegal for anyone to disclose another's status. I think I definitely have a case.

After reading some of the posts, I will say there sure are some jaded mofos here... I think I am worth more than some stinking ass cow. But I see the points that are being made. I know love don't pay the bills but I would like to know that my potential partner sees me as more than just a piece of ass.

Yes girl, you're worth way more than a cow. I'm just sayin' the times dictate our perception of love and romance.

[John2038]

After reading this entire thread I'm still not sure what the purpose of it is.

In a thread about dating, instead of the words
eternity, health, hopes, wedding, ..

We find (for some)
Deaths, illness, doubts, disclosure, ..

It's a good summary isn't it ?

[leatherman]

After reading this entire thread I'm still not sure what the purpose of it is.

It's an appropriate thread since Valentine's Day is coming up. 

see John started a thread about how even though he has HIV, his life isn't over but he realized that finding love might be complicated by having HIV. MtD basically told him to give it up because aids was going to kill him so love was out of the question and betty said love wasn't worth looking for because she was old and tired of the jerks.

obviously MtD and Betty have had some previous run-in with John and gave some rather harsh answers. I thought it was pretty crappy of them to reply in someone else's thread this way. (IMHO If you don't like a thread, don't reply. Go start your own thread.) Rather than bitch back at MtD or cry foul to a mod, I stepped in with my own personal love story of losing one partner and gaining another - a story about how even though I'm older and sicker and wasn't even looking, love still found me. (For all the times that I've said depressive things and been slammed, I find it all amusing that it would be me spreading optimism this time.) John seemed to think that many pozzies had given up on love for the most part and I tried to explain that some have and with very valid reasons; but just having HIV is not a valid reason by itself.

then many more chimed in on their thots about love, while Dachshund kept bringing up Dr. Phil and you asked what's it all about. I would say that's it'a a potpourri of thoughts about love. 

Happy Valentine's Day to you all!
mikie

[SteveA]

After reading this entire thread I'm still not sure what the purpose of it is.

Well as usual the thread has been hijacked off topic. I'm pretty sure the original poster wanted to hear a few success stories from people who've found love only to be buried by posts that love doesn't exist. To those people all I can say is love is what you make of it. If you can't show love to others, you'll never see it yourself. Love isn't dead but if you blind yourself to the possibilities, you'll never see it yourself.

[Iggy]

So I'm not a kid, so I won't ask you "how to meet someone" cause anyway, I know.
But just about your experience in this field. How did you meet your partners. Experience and maybe recommendations.

Call me crazy but aren't those the two the same thing?   

Anyway, my answers of four major relationship from first to current

1. College
2. Work
3. Manhunt or Craigslist (don't remember which...I was a little *ahem* preoccupied.)
4. Aidsmeds.

I've had tons of dates (not sex hook-ups - that would fall under the scientific calculator quantifier) and I've met them in everything from bars, volunteering, school, work, on the street and through friends.

Not sure how that helps you or what your question as it is phrased has to do with HIV, but there you go.

[Dachshund]

while Dachshund kept bringing up Dr. Phil

No mikie you did, but you miss the point completely.

As for responses, fortunately Steve A and Leatherman and John2038 don't get to make that decision for us. If that's how we want it we should either not start a post or list all the people we don't want responding or what preconceived answers we would like to hear. Sometimes a differing opinion may even make you think. Buy and large threads like this are all anecdotes anyway, none more valid than the other.

[hartiepie]

I agree with Mikie on this: if you don't like a thread, don't post.

Sniping and name calling are really a waste. (Yep, I just scroll on past some of you guys who can't seem to resist dragging everyone down at nearly every turn.)

I like reading that relationships are possible; Counteracts a lot of negativity in dealing with HIV/AIDS.

As to the purpose of the thread, I admit I actually could use some fresh pick-up lines................

[BT65]

obviously MtD and Betty have had some previous run-in with John and gave some rather harsh answers. I thought it was pretty crappy of them to reply in someone else's thread this way. (IMHO If you don't like a thread, don't reply. Go start your own thread.)
Happy Valentine's Day to you all!
mikie

Mikie, if you have a problem with me, pm me 'cause I have no problem responding if you do.

[Iggy]

As to the purpose of the thread, I admit I actually could use some fresh pick-up lines................

Hey, is that Fuzeon in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

[Dachshund]

Sniping and name calling are really a waste. (Yep, I just scroll on past some of you guys who can't seem to resist dragging everyone down at nearly every turn.)

Give me a break. The passive aggressive brigade loves it. It gives them every opportunity to lecture while supposedly remaining above the fray. If you scroll past then how in the hell do you know if people are sniping and name calling? If you really didn't care you wouldn't take the time to respond at all.

[hartiepie]

supposedly remaining above the fray.

got it Hal, .................scrolling again

[BT65]

got it Hal, .................scrolling again

Ah, you may be scrolling, but apparently you do stop and read.

Edited to add: which means you're only scrolling from one post to the next.

[hartiepie]

Well yes I stop to read most posts, but after a few pointless exchanges I now know who I will scroll past in the future (sorry i wasn't clearer about that).

[Miss Philicia]

::grabs scroll wheel on mouse most furiously::

[Dachshund]

Well yes I stop to read most posts, but after a few pointless exchanges I now know who I will scroll past in the future (sorry i wasn't clearer about that).

Anyone can use the ignore function and then they won't have to worry about posts upsetting their dainty sensibilities. Course it does make it harder to moralize.

[thunter34]

This thread bored the hell out of me at first, but I'm kinda liking it now.

 

[John2038]

Seems that the HIV kills also love..

[hartiepie]

Seems that the HIV kills also love..

and civility

[thunter34]

and civility

Still scrolling right on by, dear?

[Miss Philicia]

OK, I'm going to weigh in here with some Pearls of Wisdom and state that if you sucked chunks with romance before HIV you're still going to suck chunks after infection.  If you didn't then I see no reason not continue down the road of Romance Master afterwards.

I picked up trade in the subways before my infection and continued to do so afterwards.  Such is life.

And yeah, that's my idea of romance.  If you don't like it then I don't know what to say.  And yes, that's how I met my last boyfriend.

[hartiepie]

Still scrolling right on by, dear?

Well yes and no, honey. As I stated, I scroll by some and not others ---- but I am hardly alone in doing so.

I am reminded of Edith Bunker who was asked if the light worked in her refrigerator. "Well, yes and no. It's on when I open it and off when I close it."

[Iggy]

I'm utterly shocked that Godwin's Law hasn't yet been invoked.

[John2038]

Whatever is your way of loving someone..





The conclusions might still be..


Enjoy scrolling..

[thunter34]

Whatever is your way of loving someone..






The conclusions might still be..


Enjoy scrolling..

I don't see any pics in that post...just a bunch of little squares with "x" in them. 

[thunter34]

I'm utterly shocked that Godwin's Law hasn't yet been invoked.

I'm kinda suprised that we did notsee that yet either.  There's been enough hollow, caustic posts that something sounding like that should come along soon enough, though.

[Denver Toad]

Iggy - I'd vote for Benford's law being applicable here. On the cusp of Goodwin's though. Good call

[thunter34]

OK, John - I now see your photo display.

Because of you, I kinda feel like maybe Ihavehope.

[Iggy]

Iggy - I'd vote for Benford's law being applicable here. On the cusp of Goodwin's though. Good call

I never heard of that.  DO you mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law

If so, I'm the wrong party to make this suggestion to as I can't count to 23 while fully clothe.

[thunter34]

I never heard of that.  DO you mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law

If so, I'm the wrong party to make this suggestion to as I can't count to 23 while fully clothe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ29scjP4lA

[John2038]

Sometime love is not far
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KofzNbMBy8s

[Miss Philicia]

egads... here come the youtube links

[Queen Tokelove]

Hmmm, maybe it is just me but I didn't see anything wrong with John starting this thread. Yes, some here are quite jaded and that includes myself to a point. I have often felt like giving up on love and for the moment, I am not looking even though I do have a date tonight... Do I expect it to be love at first sight? Not really but it's getting me out of the house. I guess when it comes to love, the bottom line is nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I don't slam those who thinks love is for fools, it is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I just feel that circumstances has brought them to feel the way they do. I think some of the jaded comments are comical but then I do have a dry sense of humor. Some choose to remain alone, that's cool too. I am sure they are making love to their hand or like me their vibrators. Thank the Goddess for batteries!!!

[SteveA]

What I find humorous are the comments about passive aggressive behaviors, as if that sort of behavior is somehow worse than obvious aggressive behaviors!  To each their own. 

[thunter34]

What I find humorous are the comments about passive aggressive behaviors, as if that sort of behavior is somehow worse than obvious aggressive behaviors!  To each their own. 

I kinda think they are "worse"...cuz they're cloaked in such a way that they're sort of dishonest and chicken shit.  Like if I thought you were very often a real prick, for example, it would be better (IMO) to just come right out and say so than to try and find some round about, under-handed way of "saying it without saying it"...don'tcha think?

[SteveA]

How did you meet your partners. Experience and maybe recommendations.

Hops none of you will be upset by this question. Just decided to make it happen. Well, we all have been there no ?

Just in case the "Love Bites Brigade" missed the original question. He asked how you met your partners. He didn't ask what you thought of love or the lack there of. That's what I meant by thread hijacking.

[Queen Tokelove]

Just in case the "Love Bites Brigade" missed the original question. He asked how you met your partners. He didn't ask what you thought of love or the lack there of. That's what I meant by thread hijacking.

Oh well, I am not part of the Love Bites Brigade...... And I'll be the first to say that I missed the original question. I guess I just got caught up in Leatherman's posts..... My name is Akasha and I'm just a sucker for love.

[John2038]

Some personal thoughts in bulk (talking to myself - I won't take the risk to advise people):

Believe in love (life or just love) requires more strength than to let everything go.

Dying and say: I still have years to live when I had dropped everything .. No

But:
Eat balanced, do sport, free your spirit with music, movies, making acquaintances, just smile, dream.
Write a book, visit some places, whatever. ENJOY. Life IS beautiful.
Show our partner that you feel good, no matter what is the truth.
Be proud of each others. Avoid acting like a POZ with no powers, no dreams and no hopes. It's useless and won't help.

Love the life and just love, the one depend of the other.
Start where you feel you can. Everything might follow. Wear your shoes, run, you are alive. Don't read, do it.

[BT65]

Steve, we are allowed to post our opinions on here.  It's not thread-hijacking; just honest viewpoints. 

[SteveA]

Steve, we are allowed to post our opinions on here.  It's not thread-hijacking; just honest viewpoints. 

When you take over a thread and take it down a tangent that the original poster didn't ask about, it's thread hijacking. I have no problems with people sharing opinions on the subject if they are actually answering the questions that were put forth. I'm not saying you personally set out to hijack it but the answers being posted had nothing to do with his actual question. He asked for anecdotes of how people met their partners. He didn't ask if love was real or if it was worth going for or any of the other tangents that people went off on.

As for what's allowed, I never said anyone shouldn't post their opinions. That was somebody else. Unfortunately I've had my share of people here targeting my posts with vitriol simply because they decided to not like me without ever taking half a chance to get to know me. Sorry if I feel like standing up for other people I see in the same position. We're all human and we're all fighting a difficult fight. It's sad to me that some people choose to fight each other instead of offer support.

[BT65]

Uh, ok.  Maybe you should start your own thread about hijacking. 

[thunter34]

Uh, ok.  Maybe you should start your own thread about hijacking. 

Agreed.  The OP asked about people's experiences.  The responses were more within the scope of the question than this tangent about highjacking.

[sharkdiver]

John2038

what is your definition of love anyways? That may clear up some confusion of what you are asking.

Shark

[Queen Tokelove]

Just my thoughts and a brief hijack if you will....But if the original poster is not offended by what others are saying whether it went off topic then why should anyone else be offended? I actually misunderstood what John's original question was and then was persuaded to add my own 2 cents from someone else's post who was actually answering John's question.

As I have said before, some posts may have come across as being jaded but it is that person's experience nonetheless. Why knock a person for how they feel by calling them names? That in itself came across as being childish to me. And if someone is criticizing John for whatever reason, John is a big boy and I am sure, can take of himself. And if it would've gotten out of hand, one of the mods would have stepped in. This is a forum which means they are plenty of personalities here. Some meld together and some clash but when it comes to someone needing support, we all come together and to me, that is what matter most.

[John2038]

John2038

what is your definition of love anyways? That may clear up some confusion of what you are asking.

Shark

1- Personal stories about love (++/+-)
2- HIV disclosure
experience, recommendations

might summarize what matter the most for me now, and what I highly would like to discuss in this thread.
It's a very important subject for me, and I hops for many others as well, especially the newly infected I guess.
Thank you for asking.

[Miss Philicia]

1- Personal stories about love (++/+-)
2- HIV disclosure
experience, recommendations

might summarize what matter the most for me now, and what I highly would like to discuss in this thread.
It's a very important subject for me, and I hops for many others as well, especially the newly infected I guess.
Thank you for asking.

That didn't answer his question: what is your definition of love anyways?

John2038

what is your definition of love anyways? That may clear up some confusion of what you are asking.

Shark

[Iggy]

Dee-Lite lyrics come to mind

[sharkdiver]

love

for me to say I loved someone is someone who

I watched slowly and painfully waste away to a skeleton, watch him go nearly blind, have to drive him to kidney dialysis 3 days a week, monitor his IVs, try to feed him without him throwing up, cleaning up gallons of vomit when he did, change his diaper every 30 minutes, then have to finally change his bedding every 2 hours, clean his bed sores, give him injections, stay up all night wiping his sweaty body down, maybe sleep 2 hours a night, while trying to still keep my job, watch being intubated and the last words we got to say is I love you, watch him continue to waste away, hold him inyour arms while he left this planet, and then look at his lifeless body before I pushed the button for his cremation, and still say I LOVE YOU!    all the other stuff is fluff

thats just my opinion

Sharkie

[John2038]

That didn't answer his question: what is your definition of love anyways?

I can't be good answering such question.
The only thing I can say about it is that when you miss it, you know that it exist.
Cause of the pain and the vaccum it cause.
For the buzz words:
Feeling, complicity, friendship, joy, projects, sharing, caring, smiling, etc
Being together or missing each others. Belongs to each others.
Making a life together. Loving.

[Miss Philicia]

le sigh

[Miss Philicia]

Dee-Lite lyrics come to mind

Or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWrQ4SPDvj8

[John2038]

Sinclar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKqPHCiR4eo
Tina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHdJXET3ROI
Sardou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYVNO0750uk
Rapahel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGPwmzov6LI
Bowie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qjTStVY6Hk
Joe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHUH8cP7p90
Ely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PouIUVjGNPU

Some forgot this feeling.
Remember when you wrote: Love you for ever..plus one day
Remember your past.

[Miss Philicia]

Don't try John.  You can't beat my youtube link.  Ever.

[John2038]

How about that philly267 ? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpupK9cIfc
At the end of this video, you will understand a meaning of love.

And this is what you do when you love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg

Sorry for this diversion.
Never mind. Just say love is there, everywhere. We are there. That what count the most.

[Basquo]

 Avoid acting like a POZ with no powers, no dreams and no hopes.

That's an, um, interesting choice of words.

[sharkdiver]

I agree basquo

not feeling the "love" here

 
Shark

[Dachshund]

Never mind. Just say love is there, everywhere. We are there. That what count the most.

Someone is channeling Eldon

[Miss Philicia]

lollerz

[Queen Tokelove]

I agree basquo

not feeling the "love" here

 
Shark

I have to agree with you there. I think this thread has lost it's purpose. It has now turned into the battle of youtube links. Hopefully John was able to get some type of advice by those who did answer his question. I am done with this thread, it is blowing my high... *walks out and shuts the door*

[DCGUY2007]

It would be great to be in a long term relationship again. But like some of the others have mentioned I find it very difficult. The poz issue definitely puts a damper on things. But I see that some have still found love despite being poz. So I will keep hope alive 

[John2038]

..

[sharkdiver]

Before I step out of here and never come back Mr Penniless Sitar Player

I am assuming that there are some cultural differences going on here,   but.....

I don't think you realize that you have insulted many of us with your words.


I'm outta here.....


Mr. Shark <--- who can't believe he got sucked into this thread

[John2038]

Sorry to those who feel offended by such thread.
Anywhere else you will feel better then

[Miss Philicia]

what?

[Ann]

If this thread keeps going in the direction it has, it's going to end up being locked and don't be surprised if a few people get time outs as well.

I'm warning the majority (but not all) of posters in this thread. If you have nothing constructive to add, open and read some other thread. Cool your jets, everyone!

Ann

[Winiroo]

I thought about defining love then I got inspired to look up definitions and quotes.

I know I am off track but it could be a good thing so please humor me…


Wendy 



Love is a deep, tender, stronger than words would describe feeling of affection, care and concern toward a person

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. - 1 Corinthians 13:5-7

"Love is more than three words mumbled before bedtime. Love is sustained by action, a pattern of devotion in the things we do for each other every day." - Nicholas Sparks

"Love is like playing the piano. First you must learn to play by the rules,
then you must forget the rules and play from your heart"
Author: Unknown

"To describe love is very difficult, for the same reason that words cannot fully describe the flavor of an orange. You have to taste the fruit to know its flavor. So with love."
Author: Paramahansa Yogananda

[thunter34]

Ah, helll....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLwy2QuVOUE

[John2038]

Glad to see people celebrating love, in a way or another. 
No matter that this is not directly related to personal stories or to the question of the disclosure, because they are just the next step.

I was until then wondering if "love" was in the POZ dictionary.

Note
Privacy And Disclosure of HIV in Interpersonal Relationships: A Sourcebook
http://books.google.com/books?id=39TFsnK75HIC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=psychology+hiv+disclosure&source=web&ots=UHhVZNGfGS&sig=jBnnUR35b3JDbPtC-0SLJtoJYyE#PPA123,M1

[Denver Toad]

I was till then wondering if "love" was in the POZ dictionary.

Of course it is... Who doesn't want to be loved and love in return? A world without love isn't much of a world.

It's the soul that gives up on the world that the world forgets.

[SteveA]

I for one won't give up on Love. I couldn't imagine ever wanting to. 

[John2038]

   
I look to insist, but is there among you people who have take the risks to meet a HIV-negative person, and who have announced their illness ?

And if so, was this going well? If not, was it because the disclosure came too early, too late?
What does your partner says about your disclosure?

A bit like someone who start with HAART, and who is concerned about the side effects.
And if a majority of stories end badly, better stay between HIV-positive could be my conclusion.

I try to evaluate this risk, because disclosing my status to the person I'm thinking to is not a small affairs.
It might work, but if it fails, it will be the first person in my environment to know.
So before acting, better ask around here no?

[allopathicholistic]

   
What does your partner says about your disclosure?

My ex said disclosure was super important to him. After we met we were intimate with protection a few days later. I told him I was HIV negative - he insisted on a new test because I was going by a year-old result.  The new test came back poz and I disclosed 2 days later when he asked me over the phone. We were a serodiscordant couple for a little over 3 years.

[John2038]

If not too private, how long have you been together serodiscordant.
Have you broke-up for a status related reason ?

[Miss Philicia]

John, you keep asking the same questions -- I'm not sure what answer you want.  Can someone HIV+ meet a negative person in a spontaneous manner and announce at some point, perhaps after a couple sexual encounters with this person where a condom was used, that they are in fact HIV+?  Sure, that's what I did with my last partner -- he was fine with it.  In fact, he stated that he always assumed that 50% of the guys he met were infected so he was always prepared for it, whether tricking or looking for a relationship.  He did not bat an eye really, though he did inquire as to how well I was doing in treatment, etc.  I cruised him exiting a subway station and we were together for 3 years -- isn't that romantic, in a cheap and sordid manner?

Alas, I think you've stated that you're straight so I don't know how a similar situation would play out for you.  What, in fact, are you doing in terms of finding this elusive love life on your own?

[John2038]

philly267
I met someone months ago (HIV-negative) willing to have a stable relationship with me.
Nothing happen till now. I haven't disclose yet, but evaluating the risk.
I may over complicate my life as I won't say yes as long as I haven't disclose.

I want to say: I'm HIV-pos. So still willing me ?

Why doing so ? Not sure. Education maybe. Born like that for sure.

Typically, while reading your answers I was thinking: your partner have accept your disclosure after. Luck ?

Reading others on this subject allows to put in the balance the pro/cons of disclosing to someone.
In my case, this someone knows my colleagues. And once you disclose, there is no turning back.
So how to evaluate this risk ? By asking. Or is there others alternatives ?
I don't want expose in details my situation. I just hope that reading the stories of others may help on when, what, how to say that.
As I said, it's probably like people asking about the side effect of a new combo.
Everybody will react differently, but we still hops to be able to come to some conclusions.
We are also looking for advises. Experience.

[Dachshund]

Unfortunately, there are some inconvenient truths that come with testing positive. As my first ID doc told me about twenty years ago, and I quote, "HIV is going to fuck with your head."

For every anecdote of success disclosing to a potential partner, there's an anecdote of failure. No story by anyone using the forums, is in the long run going to change your reality. What would you have done if prior to testing poz someone you were seeing disclosed their status? I also caution that not everyone using the forums tells the truth. I guess it's nice to swap stories, but in the end, it's your decision to make. To me if you're already questioning whether or not someone you think you care about might blab your secret, well in my personal opinion you're not emotionally strong enough to divulge. I'm not sure and someone who knows can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think programs like AA suggest waiting a year or so before even contemplating a romance. Your insistence at answers suggests you're not ready. There are no guarantees. I've divulged and things ended up peachy. I've divulged and things ended up a disaster. If you are worried in the slightest about people revealing your "secret" then you better keep it to yourself. Because once you tell someone, whether you like it or not, the news will get out. It's just human nature. 

I strongly suggest before you do anything that you get some counseling if it's available.

[John2038]

Your answer make sense to me Dachshund (first time it does).

Well well. Gotta think about it.
Thank for the input.

[BT65]

John, it seems like you want someone to give you a utopian view of love with HIV.  We really need to stop beating a dead horse.

[allopathicholistic]

Have you broke-up for a status related reason ?

No I broke up with him because of his "road rage" (that's anger while driving a car in case you don't know) and he likes steak and fried diner food so we could rarely eat out together.

[John2038]

Bettytacy, you are lucky that the answer I was ready to post have been lost after the message:

Warning - while you were reading a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

I will not rewrite it, but I please you to stop with your arrogant style.

[Queen Tokelove]

John, it seems like you want someone to give you a utopian view of love with HIV.  We really need to stop beating a dead horse.

Ok, I know I said I was done commenting here but I just can't seem to help myself. John, I honestly feel that everyone who has posted has told you pretty much all they can. While you don't seem satisfied with some of the answers you see, I have to ask what answer are you looking for? Many have been able to disclose and things have worked out just peachy as Aunty D said and some who disclosed in the past such as myself, it has turned out to be sheer hell. I have had more bad experiences disclosing than good. There is no middle road here, it either goes one way or the other. It depends on the individual if they want to disclose. It also depends on the individual you disclose to on how they will take it. And as much as you seem to want to try to lash out at Betty, I think you should man up and decide what you want to do. No one can make the choice for you, dear.

When people were being a bit mean to you, I spoke up in your behalf even though I have not really read any of your previous posts. I have in fact read and reads Betty's posts everyday, I don't see where she is being mean to you by saying you are beating a dead horse cause at this point, you kind of are. Even though Betty can defend herself as can you, I think you should gleam what you can from the answers you have gotten and decide what you plan to do. The final decision is yours and yours alone.

[Florida69]

I have read some success stories of HIV+ people meeting and/or finding love after diagnosis either with a positive person or a negative person.  I understand it is difficult to even tell friends and family, most less tell a potential partner.  Depression and not feeling worthy of love or life, in my opinion are part of being positive.  Of course, only you can define yourself and allow yourself to be happy.   Life is what you make it, there are always choices.  I am in a relationship with someone that is negative, we found out I was positive after we dated for a few years, he is still negative thank goodness, but I tend to follow some of the great philosophies of life.  You have to love yourself in order for anyone else to love you, and another favorite as said by William Shakespeare, to thine own self be true."  The issues with our relationship are not so much him as it is me; I am terrified that I would inflict this disease upon him.  I have realized that fear is why there is such a large stigma attached to being positive, and if he isn’t afraid why should I be?   Good luck to you in your quest for love.  I have a great friend who’s loves the motto love, live, laugh, not necessarily in that order.   I hope that helps. Take care. D

[John2038]

Queen Akasha

Each time people start to post interesting article related to the subject of this thread, there are interferences.
Look closer to this thread. I was having an interesting discussion with some people here, until some others decided to hijack
this thread in an unpleasant and disrespectful manner.

I please you to let people express what they want/have to express.
If this thread doesn't interest you, just bypass it. I haven't open this thread to read why I should close it.

Asking for the side effect of a combo is not more useful than asking about experience about disclosure.

If as you already mention this subject doesn't interest you, please just move to another topic.
As said Dashund, there is a ignore button. So just use it.
It will allows to respect those who are contributing in a useful way to this thread.

My aim is not to keep this topic alive, just to keep it alive Ok ? Am I clear ?

I'm also not a kid, and I'm not asking for someone to tell me what I can or not ask, when or not I should stop to ask.
I was starting to have a discussion that I haven't be able to conclude.
I have keep quite till now, but this attitude start to bother me.

[thunter34]

My aim is not to keep this topic alive, just to keep it alive Ok ? Am I clear ?

Um....not really, no. 

[John2038]

THREAD IS CLOSE

Keep your certainty. Stay impolite.

Thank's for those who have contribute.

[Queen Tokelove]

John----

Honestly, a thread can only stay alive for so long before people start repeating themselves. Another thing, if you would've stepped up awhile ago instead of being quiet as you put it then your thread wouldn't have gotten hijacked as much as it has. I think you liked the attention it has gotten even when being hijacked. While others have tried to stay on point with your topic, there isn't really much left to be said no matter how you try to reword it. Let's be real.

For the record, I know all about the ignore feature in these forums, I choose not to use it. Why? Because I don't like to miss anything whether it be a smart remark or comical drama. But even with those responses I tend to learn something from them so I rarely bypass anything. If I would've simply bypassed your comment then I would have missed your comment of....."My aim is not to keep this topic alive, just to keep it alive Ok ? Am I clear ? And I even learned something from that which is YOU MAKE NO SENSE. I will continue to monitor this thread until it is locked which will be coming, trust me. If it is not locked then at least I can have a laugh.

[John2038]

I think you liked the attention it has gotten even when being hijacked.

Ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok


You know better than me yes ?? Ok YOU RIGHT.

Fine good, you are all the best.

Jesus. Your heart is so small, and you are so selfish. You see in the others what you are.
This is the only truth.

This thread is close.  I won't reply anymore.

[Queen Tokelove]

 

[hartiepie]

I did learn a few things:

I didn't know about the IGNORE button (I guess I didn't need to?). Seems to be working.

I will never a start a thread here.

[Winiroo]

John has an interesting style of writing. I am curious where he is from.

[Queen Tokelove]

John has an interesting style of writing. I am curious where he is from.

His own little world, sweetie...

[Miss Philicia]

John has an interesting style of writing. I am curious where he is from.

Continental Europe somewhere -- I'm not sure which country unless I missed it -- would be nice if folks her filled out their profiels -- I don't think the CIA is on AIDSmeds seeking out barebackers.  What's up with people feeling they can't state where they live, if even just the nastion or region of a country -- and AGE please and birthdays!.  His English at times is passable, other times not so much.  But I'm semi dyslexic I think as my HIV terrorizes my cranium so I'm the last to sit on high and critique.

[Miss Philicia]

John were do you live and for how long.  What is your age.  Are you divorce...children... so many variability.  You can address many of them if you apply yourself and surround yourself with LOCAL support groups and one-on-one cognitive behavioral therapy, and not just a few visits by monthly visits for at last a year, ad you find issue that predate HIV...I know I do

[BT65]

John, I'm with Philly.  A therapist could best address the issues you raise here.

[Ann]

John, it seems like you want someone to give you a utopian view of love with HIV.  We really need to stop beating a dead horse.

John----

Honestly, a thread can only stay alive for so long before people start repeating themselves. Another thing, if you would've stepped up awhile ago instead of being quiet as you put it then your thread wouldn't have gotten hijacked as much as it has. I think you liked the attention it has gotten even when being hijacked. While others have tried to stay on point with your topic, there isn't really much left to be said no matter how you try to reword it. Let's be real.

For the record, I know all about the ignore feature in these forums, I choose not to use it. Why? Because I don't like to miss anything whether it be a smart remark or comical drama. But even with those responses I tend to learn something from them so I rarely bypass anything. If I would've simply bypassed your comment then I would have missed your comment of....."My aim is not to keep this topic alive, just to keep it alive Ok ? Am I clear ? And I even learned something from that which is YOU MAKE NO SENSE. I will continue to monitor this thread until it is locked which will be coming, trust me. If it is not locked then at least I can have a laugh.

His own little world, sweetie...

Betty and Queen,

Did the pair of you not read the warning I issued in post #124?

If this thread keeps going in the direction it has, it's going to end up being locked and don't be surprised if a few people get time outs as well.

I'm warning the majority (but not all) of posters in this thread. If you have nothing constructive to add, open and read some other thread. Cool your jets, everyone!

Ann

John has been getting some constructive feedback since I wrote that. If the pair of you don't like this thread, stay out of it. If I catch either of you in this thread again posting anything other than an apology to John, you'll be timed out. You will also be timed out if you go into other threads to give John a hard time. Enough is enough. Please consider yourselves warned.

Ann

[SteveA]

It's quite apparent that English is not only NOT John's first language, he also doesn't have a very good handle on it. Even I have been confused by some of what he has said but I still think he's honestly here seeking answers and support.

John, it seems to me that you're probably very much in the closet, so to speak, with your status. I haven't really figured out if you're straight, gay or whatever. If you have nobody to talk to about this HIV stuff face to face, it's going to be really rough for you. I don't just mean your doctor either. It might help if you try steering conversations with your friends and family into the HIV direction just to see how they think and feel on the subject. It would help you figure out whether or not you want to disclose to them at all. It helps when disclosing if you know how they felt about the subject.

Sometimes it's as simple as watching the Television News or sharing a news paper article with someone you know and when an AID's related news article comes along, say to your friend/family member "What do you think about that AID's stuff?" or "How do you feel about that news story?" Getting a dialog going with people you know will soon let you know whether they're capable of accepting a disclosure of your status to them.

I could give you anecdotes all day of how people have reacted to my own disclosures but they really don't help unless you know how to disclose. The first step to disclosure is to get the subject talked about. This will allow you to decide if it's safe or not to tell anyone.

[Queen Tokelove]

Ann,

I have sent you a pm regarding my feelings on your warning. I do not feel the need to air it here but in no way will John get an apology from me. If I get a time out for not apologizing so be it.

[Longislander]

John,

First off, I'm sorry you had to deal with what went on in this thread. I've had no problem reading your posts and understanding most of them completely. In fact, some of your words ,put together in your way ,read beautifully.

I tested positive, and dealt with it on my own with the help of these forums for a good year-year and a half, before I was actually comfortable enough with myself to be able to go out with friends and have a good time. It's a process we all have to go through, and the time frame is different for all of us.

I started going out again, met a guy, went on a date or two, no sex, and decided he wasn't for me. About a month later I met another guy, we went out a few times, and started seriously dating. Within a month, again no sex, I found that I could trust this person enough to tell him my status. Of course he was starting to wonder why we weren't being more intimate, and I decided I couldn't wait any longer to tell him. He was a little shocked at first, but didn't express it.  We talked it out, and we've been together for about 9 months now. He loves me immensely , I love him, and he just tested negative at his annual physical last week.

I hope this little bit of information helps in the forming of your own views of love and disclosure. Like many have said there are many different stories to tell. I've been lucky so far.

Many people no longer post much here anymore, and this thread is proof why. I hope you can see through the crap, and continue to post your thoughts, feelings, and questions long enough to become comfortable with yourself as HIV positive and get on with your life. This place and it's members were a Godsend when I found it, but unfortunately it's become a nice place to visit, but I don't want to live here.

I wish you the best~

Paul

[joemutt]

That's a beautiful story, Paul. The hard thing is that one feels isolated and to break through that you have to open yourself to somebody and that is frightening because you become very vulnerable. But if you're searching for somebody I guess it's the only way to go. Until now I couldn't. But last week I met someone who has Parkinson's and he didnt have the option to hide it, so I discussed my Hiv with him : what a relief.

[SteveA]

What's sad is that those of us who speak English as a first language have our own difficulties in expressing what we're going through and feeling because of HIV. Take that and magnify it by a language barrier and then stop and think before responding to someone who's struggling not just with HIV but with a foreign to them language to describe how they're feeling.

[Dachshund]

Many people no longer post much here anymore, and this thread is proof why. I hope you can see through the crap, and continue to post your thoughts, feelings, and questions long enough to become comfortable with yourself as HIV positive and get on with your life. This place and it's members were a Godsend when I found it, but unfortunately it's become a nice place to visit, but I don't want to live here.

The last time I counted there are more people posting here than ever before. I also want to point out there are forum members who come out of the lurking woodwork to chastise others by using feigned concern as a cover. Trying to settle old scores. If people don't like the forums or it's members, move along.

Ann posted her warnings about the thread and it should have been left at that.

[Winiroo]

I wasn't being catty. I was genuinely interested to know where he was from because I found his style of writing interesting.

[MOONLIGHT1114]

I look to insist, but is there among you people who have take the risks to meet a HIV-negative person, and who have announced their illness ?

And if so, was this going well? If not, was it because the disclosure came too early, too late?
What does your partner says about your disclosure?

A bit like someone who start with HAART, and who is concerned about the side effects.
And if a majority of stories end badly, better stay between HIV-positive could be my conclusion.

I try to evaluate this risk, because disclosing my status to the person I'm thinking to is not a small affairs.
It might work, but if it fails, it will be the first person in my environment to know.
So before acting, better ask around here no?

Someone posted waaaay back here that if you had trouble dating before you were poz (or not) then most likely it would be the same after.  I kind of agree.  If you were assertive in finding dates and kept trying before, you could certainly continue to try after diagnosis.  I agree, though, from what I have read in Poz over the past months, HIV IS a life-changing diagnosis.  I agree that people may shy away from seeking love.

I have not.  It hasn't been easy, but I have always taken the challenge.  I didn't want to be alone, and I felt, that despite the HIV, I still had a lot to give someone in the way of love.

Since my husband died in 1996, I have probably dated 50 different guys.  Forty-eight of them were negative, only two pozzies in the mix.  NO, I didn't sleep with all of them!  LOL  Some didn't make it to the second date, because as I learned to live with this virus, I also learned that I didn't have to settle for a bottom-feeder in the dating world. I also learned that dating was healthy for me socially, it kept me going and gave me more confidence which I really needed.   I also learned that I didn't have to date someone who wasn't my type for fear of no one else wanting me.  I kept trying and trying, and God help me, TRYING.  I was rejected, dejected, walked out on, even scared men away before I disclosed because I am a strong-minded person.  THAT is the ONLY thing that has helped me to find the love I enjoy today.

My BF is negative, he saw me on Match.com and emailed me.  I disclosed on the 3rd date in early November.

I understand that this post has been "heated," but I really wanted to share my experience here, in hopes of giving others HOPE.  "No one will know you exist unless you try."  Yes, the guys out there in Dating World were pains in the ass before diagnosis, and they still are, believe me.  2007 was a whirlwind of disappointments in the dating dept., but the GFs in the Dating Thread know that I kept my chin up, even despite having health problems and no job. 

"You gotta kiss A LOT of toads......."

And now I am a VERY happy pozzie, who is very much in love.   

Cue "When You Wish Upon A Star."   LOL   

[Andy Velez]

Whatever the original intention of this thread, I am going to make a decision it's gone on long enough. It's not a question that gets "solved." There have been exchanges of opinions including with some with more vitriol than is good for the general health of all.

I'm locking this thread now and trusting that if anything more needs to be said it will surface in a friendlier climate. And please don't misunderstand that to mean I am suggesting beginning a new thread. I'm definitely not.

Let's give it a rest for a while.