Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 19, 2024, 01:10:43 am

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 772784
  • Total Topics: 66296
  • Online Today: 267
  • Online Ever: 5484
  • (June 18, 2021, 11:15:29 pm)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 156
Total: 156

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Do I Have HIV?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT  (Read 24232 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,730
Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« on: May 29, 2010, 03:23:46 am »
At first, this would seem like it should go in the "Off Topic" forum, and there is a thread there about Don't Ask.  However, I was saddened to hear that a group is trying to fan fears about gays in the military by using HIV.  I was offended by this and feel it could gain traction with republican congressmen--and some dems. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann#37389953

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,277
  • Antipodean in every sense of the word
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 03:30:07 am »
You wanna be saddened? Do as I do. Subscribe to the daily email Loonycasts from the Family Research Council.

Yikes!

MtD

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 10:30:45 am »
Keith Olbermann should be required viewing for every person living in America. He rocks.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 11:38:45 am »
Well, it was expected.  But there is a petition for "Don't Ask Don't Tell." 

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/repealdadt

During his State of the Union address, President Obama pledged to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Now, we have a chance to help make good on that promise.

The House of Representatives and the Senate Armed Services Committee have already voted in favor of repeal, and debate in the Senate will soon start. But some Republicans have already announced their plans to block the repeal.

We can defeat those who'd stand in the way of history. But we must show our senators that Americans -- in every state -- overwhelmingly support repeal.

Join the President's pledge to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,900
  • the one and original newt
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 10:34:56 pm »
Ahem, like some of them straight Navy boys aint got a whore in every port...hmmmm
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,455
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 06:01:38 am »
I thought all service men were routinely tested.
I thought HIV+ people can't join the services.
And that servicemen/women who serocovert during service are NOT discharged, but are removed from combat.

Also, it would be very brave indeed if the service actually published statistics about HIV infection in the current ranks.

So where is the threat?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,285
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 09:15:46 am »
Well hell....

who knew that I was supposed to be going around fondling and fellating all these sleeping soldiers?  I wasted my time insuring my platoon of medics were able to treat any injured grunts from the battalion we supported.

don't know why anyone is expecting logic or facts to rule -- these folks don't care about facts -- they simply say whatever it takes to instill fear.

Mike

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,277
  • Antipodean in every sense of the word
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 03:53:23 pm »
Well apparently all fags and dykes are deranged sociopathic killers.

For the record I have an injunction setting Godwin's Law aside for the purposes of this post.

MtD

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,730
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 12:14:05 am »
Performing oral sex on a sleeping person?  Well, I know guys get several hard-ons while sleeping, but it would seem like you'd know someone was sucking you unless you were on Ambien or something.  Even then, it seems like you'd know. 

 

Offline Ravhyn

  • Member
  • Posts: 260
  • Nerd Alert
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 04:01:38 am »
I know with the army you are tested pre deployment and after a deployment for HIV.  If you test positive while in the service you are not discharged but you remain stateside for the rest of your time in and they basically give you a desk job. 

you can't join positive though, I know trust me I would be back in, in a heartbeat if they let HIV positive people in. 

Even my husband because I am positive is treated as a risk factor. He's been put in a job where he can't cut himself or anything and has to carry a first aid kit around in his trunk and be tested every three months because I am positive. 
April 2006 - Sero-Conversion
December 2009 - Diagnosed
Jan 2010- VL 3,800 CD4 152
Summer 2010 VL UD, CD4 over 200
September 2010 VL UD, CD4 324
March 2011 VL UD, CD4 477
May 2011 VL UD, 338

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 09:07:39 am »
We have nothing to fear but fear itself.... Unless it's self-serving fear...  Their argument does not hold water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 07:38:53 pm »
These are the same folks who rely on fear-tactics for everything they do - Is anyone really surprised? ???
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 05:50:54 am »
Only at how big a following they have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,455
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 08:18:49 am »
Yes and Im certain the gulf oil spill is the responsibility of tina snorting HIV+ gays in the Mineral and Mines.

Damn those pozzies they are ruining the world.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 01:27:56 pm »
Yes and Im certain the gulf oil spill is the responsibility of tina snorting HIV+ gays in the Mineral and Mines.

Damn those pozzies they are ruining the world.

Don't worry, the talking-heads will ask James Cameron how to fix them..  ;D
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2010, 03:11:17 pm »
What surprises me about this thread, is the number of people who are exressing surprise about this. 

We have fought hard and long to squash idiocy around HIV.  Ever since many of us died in the first onslaught in the late 1970's, we have had to fight for everything we have, including an intelligent approach to the pandemic.  We have lived through Reagan, Bush #1, Clinton being severely curtailed during his 8 years, and then the prize, The Weed/Cheney.  Every adminstration since the beginning has dragged their feet about HIV and its impact on this country, and now this. 

Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.  No accomplishments around the curbing of the pandemic, nor any policy decisions have been accomplished without the ACTIVE participation of HIV+s, so now it is you younger people's turn.  Get busy.

Tim
U.S. Army Veteran.
Viet Nam Era.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 04:44:02 pm »
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing. As a former sailor, if I had to worry about someone sucking my dick while I was asleep, not that I wouldn't want this, I would wear an alarm or tighter underwear to prevent it.  I believe the only thing stopping the Openly Gay policy is fear of the unknown or fear that enlistment will drop. Or it's a matter of pride to protect what has always been a bias policy against a certain group or people. However, we must fight for "Let our right to join and serve ring out. And when this happens, and when we get our pride and our respect, when we let it ring from every village and every town, from every state and every city, and from Continent to Continent we will be able to see the day when all human kind, gays and straights , Bis and Transvestites , Queers and Steers, will be able to join hands and yell in the words of the what has to be: "Free to join! Free to serve for the military as we are! It's about time but, we are getting our right to be counted as a real member of this society!"
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 04:52:56 pm by red_Dragon888 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2010, 04:47:58 pm »
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing.  As a former sailor, if I had to worry about someone sucking my dick while I was asleep, not that i wouldn't want that, I would wear an alarm or tighter underwear to prevent it.  I believe the only thing stopping the Openly Gay policy is fear of the unknown or fear that enlistment will drop.  Or it's a matter of pride to protect what has always been.  However, we must fight for "Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring?when we let it ring from every village and every town, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all human kind?gay men and stright men, Bis and Transvitites , Queers and Steers?will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the what has to be: "Free to join! Free to serve for the military as we are! It's about time but, we are getting our right to be counted as a real member of this society!"

I seriously doubt anyone would WANT to suck you off, asleep or not.
 ::)

Apparently, you are one of those heterosexuals that think all homosexuals are rapists.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2010, 04:52:00 pm »
I seriously doubt anyone would WANT to suck you off, asleep or not.
 ::)

Apparently, you are one of those heterosexuals that think all homosexuals are rapists.
Not hetero, Homo, and I was just pointing out what they will say to keep Gays out of the military.  

P.S. I have been.   ;)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 04:55:08 pm by red_Dragon888 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2010, 04:57:49 pm »
Not hetero, Homo, and I was just pointing out what they will say to keep Gays out of the military.  

P.S. I have been.   ;)

Ah, sorry didn't recognize the sarcasm... Should have!
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2010, 05:15:27 pm »
Ah, sorry didn't recognize the sarcasm... Should have!

No Problem...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 08:45:11 am »

Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.



Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.



Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.


Thanks, Moff, well worth repeating.


Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing.


Eh? I hope you were being "sarcastic" here too. Gay men have served in the military since ... year dot ... and the military hasn't fallen apart. If gay men - and women - can be open about who they are, it's only going to strengthen  the military and it's about high time people realised that. It's a no-brainer - well, when you have some brains in the first place, I guess. :o
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,155
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 09:13:37 am »
I personally know so many gay men in the military that I sometimes wonder how many straight people actually serve anymore.  DADT is a joke of epic proportions.  I'm a little confused as to why HIV is something that can keep you out of the military, do they similarly disqualify diabetics?  I honestly don't know the answer to that question as the military never really appealed to me due to my very anti-authoritarian nature.

Anyway, I think DADT will be gone this year or the next.

PS:  I promise if the draft were reinstated they wouldn't use homosexuality as a disqualifier because every guy who wanted out would just say they were gay.  I was just WAITING for the bush administration to start drafting for the Iraq and Afghan wars just to see that particular turn of play.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 09:16:05 am by Hellraiser »

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 11:07:59 am »
PS:  I promise if the draft were reinstated they wouldn't use homosexuality as a disqualifier because every guy who wanted out would just say they were gay.  I was just WAITING for the bush administration to start drafting for the Iraq and Afghan wars just to see that particular turn of play.

There was an old joke (I'm horrible at telling jokes, so if anyone else has heard this..): One day a young man was drafted into the war. He really didn't want to go, so when he reported to the office he told the lead officer during the physical examination that he was gay, a pacifist and flat-footed. "So am I. Unfortunately for both of us that doesn't work during the draft - NEXT!" :)
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 02:16:49 pm »
Thanks, Moff, well worth repeating.

Eh? I hope you were being "sarcastic" here too. Gay men have served in the military since ... year dot ... and the military hasn't fallen apart. If gay men - and women - can be open about who they are, it's only going to strengthen  the military and it's about high time people realised that. It's a no-brainer - well, when you have some brains in the first place, I guess. :o
Sorry I meant Openly Gay...  Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:13:34 am by red_Dragon888 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2010, 07:14:59 am »
http://my.barackobama.com/RepealDADT-share

During his State of the Union address, President Obama pledged to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Now, we have a chance to help make good on that promise.

The House of Representatives and the Senate Armed Services Committee have already voted in favor of repeal, and debate in the Senate will soon start. But some Republicans have already announced their plans to block the repeal.

We can defeat those who'd stand in the way of history. But we must show our senators that Americans -- in every state -- overwhelmingly support repeal.

Join the President's pledge to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2010, 07:42:01 am »

Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?


Like the U.S. military, the British Services is an all-volunteer force comprised of army, air force and navy contingents. Until January, 2000, when Britain lifted its gay ban following a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, gay and lesbian soldiers were prohibited from serving in the British Armed Forces.

The first ten months of the new policy have been an unqualified success. The military's own classified, internal assessment at six months found that the new policy has "been hailed as a solid achievement" (Ministry of Defense, 2000e, p. 2). There have been no indications of negative effects on recruiting levels. No mass resignations have occurred. There have been no major reported cases of gay-bashing or harassment of sexual minorities. There have been no major reported cases of harassment or inappropriate behavior by gay or lesbian soldiers. There has been no perceived effect on morale, unit cohesion or operational effectiveness. The policy change has been characterized by a "marked lack of reaction" (Ministry of Defense, 2000e, p. 2).
read more

From a year ago at Queerty...

Just to keep you up to date on how antiquated America's Don't Ask Don't Tell law is, not only do other nations like Germany, Israel, Argentina, and the United Kingdom  allow gays to serve their countries openly, but at least one is going the extra step to make them feel utterly at home.  The Australian Defence Force is pushing forward a two-day conference focusing on the needs of sexual minorities serving in the military. Now that "equality" is, like, just a passe topic with gays there serving openly, the conference will focus on health, family, and well-being. Really, well-being! Can you imagine America's armed forces caring about the well-being of its GLBT soldiers? Conservatives would just call that "babying."


There's a lot of info on DADT as well as GLBTs in the military in general at The Palm Center

Ann
(Who wonders if only Philly and she have interwebbie machines that can access Google)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:44:19 am by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,455
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2010, 08:08:22 am »
Seems to be a minority that has too much power. I bet then percentage of people actively against gays in the military is low.  I bet most military officers don't see DADT as justified. I think most senators are playing politics and they don't give a crap whatsoever about the military and would perfer their children not serve.

The point of civil rights LEGISLATION is to legislate civil rights and then let the society figure out how to deal with the new reality.  I bet most women in the military have no problem with gays/lesbians in the military. For the male soldiers it might bug, they can roll their eyes and shut the fuck up which they will do because its more important to follow military codes than to act in ways against it.  End of story. Let the few remaining senators and generals shit their panties in silence, and forget about them.  Before long one of their ranks will be gay or lesbian and TOUGH SHIT on them.

If anyone had a personal problem reported to Gen Colin Powell they kept their small minded traps shut.

Pity that the USA is supposed to be global superpower but the military lacks the balls to take homos in stride. Germany, Israel and the UK are all known for fierce ballsy armed forces so the US should stop being such a Mary about Marys
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 08:13:44 am by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,277
  • Antipodean in every sense of the word
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2010, 09:07:42 am »
Sorry I meant Openly Gay...  Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?

The ban on queers in the Australian military was lifted in 1993. I was involved in the campaign.

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,155
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2010, 10:37:33 am »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2010, 01:09:52 pm »
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  

Oh dear, I realize you are Gay, but where the hell did this thought train come from.

It was 1968, and I was assigned to an Electronic Maintenance group near Stuttgart, Germany.  I was mostly out in that everyone in the company knew for sure that I was indeed one of the Gays in the group.  One Saturday morning the company commander, an Attorney from South Dakota, sat down to have breakfast with me, and in a meeting in his office after we were done; asked me to council one of the troops, a Native American from New Mexico, about his penchant for sneaking up on some of the personnel in their sleep and sucking them off.  One of the more inflexible troops, sort of like you Dragon, complained and filed a formal complaint against him.  A formal complaint made it very difficult for the commanding officer because he knew that it would be the end of the line, and career for this poor Indian who had showed pretty bad judgement.  The commander also knew that the guy was a very important person in the Navajo tribe and it would also be really bad for him when the news got back to New Mexico. 

So, I sat down with the Indian man and told him that if he was indeed horny that he could suck the dicks of any number of the Gays in the company, or a few of the straights who enjoyed it.  Gave him a list of names to boot.  He insisted that this particular man was the only one that turned him on, to which I explained the background of my request and that the C.O. had been the one who was more concerned about him that he seemed to be.   Then I went to the guy and pled with him to drop the formal complaint, and let him know it would be the destruction of a life.  Then I reminded him of all the times he had audibly, or out loud, very loud, complained that there was nobody in Germany to suck his dick.  I told him that next time he should just roll over and enjoy it, damn it.  He relented and said quietly that the Indian was in fact a really good blow, to which I became totally nauseated.  His ego was the only thing in danger of being hurt here. 

Later that year, many of us Gays were given private rooms on the top floor, where we were allowed to have refrigerators, and set up our rooms as we liked, while the straights who were with us there, were so accommodating and welcomed the openness of the top floor.  It became legendary.

All of this happened during the "reign" of General Westmoreland, who also allowed us to grow mustaches and have hair that was 1/2 inch long down to our necks. 

Look all of you, you need to study some history here, because Gay people have always been in the Military, and there isn't a General alive that would request a Straight assistant over a Gay one.  Them are the facts, and the hatred of the present day is the result of the Nixon and Reagan era, where Gays were flexing our wings and we were easy targets of hatred for their base, and they were not afraid to make as much hay about it as possible. 

Why the fuck do any of you pay taxes to a country that has hated and discriminated, not based on the Constitution?  I know, you all say you are powerless and must pay your taxes.  I know of many Gay people who haven't paid taxes to the Government since Nixon, so there!! 

I don't know why any of you would even think thoughts that would feed and sustain a country that hates your ass, and keeps you from enjoying the full freedoms guaranteed in the beginning of our history. 

Just my thoughts.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,730
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2010, 01:27:35 am »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

I always find that repubs are skitzo.  They talk about freedom and the gov't staying out of our lives.  Yet, they want to be in our lives the most.  Most of them hated when the Supreme Court ruled the laws about anal sex were unconstitional.  Reagan ran up the debt more than all other presidents combined.  We know how Dubya doubled the debt.  Clinton had balanced the budget and was paying down the debt.  He left a huge surplus.

So, I don't know what the repubs actually stand for these days.  I think they are all like Sarah--just catch phrases and slogans.  No substance.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,793
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2010, 01:50:47 am »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Or race -- ref "raghead" comments in South Carolina against Halley
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,058
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2010, 07:04:43 am »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Dear, you're only fiscally conservate if it pertains to others. If it pertains to you, not so much. Sorta like a tea bagger.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,455
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2010, 07:59:35 am »
The soldiers campy YouTube videos only prove the point:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/opinion/05blow.html?hp
Gay? Whatever, Dude
By CHARLES M. BLOW
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2010, 10:01:08 am »
Oh dear, I realize you are Gay, but where the hell did this thought train come from.


My thought process came from seeing military doing everything they Can to hurt, humiliate, and fuck over anyone who was considered gay.  There was one male couple who were caught having sex on the USS Kitty Hawk.  Once they were let out of the brig, they we isolated from all contact from fellow sailors for fear of association, until they were allowed off the ship and kick-out of the Navy.  This was probably supported and enforced by the Command.  It is not my personal belief that there can't be Openly Gay men in the Military, I hope it will happen but when I was there in 1980, there was a strong bias against anyone looking, acting, or suspected of being gay.  I myself was suspected to be gay and was ostracised by fellow sailors for a short time.  But if what happend in the other contries are true, then I have hope that one day DADT will become a thing of the dismal past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2010, 10:15:28 am »

when I was there in 1980, there was a strong bias against anyone looking, acting, or suspected of being gay. 


Well yeah, because if a person was gay, they'd be kicked out. If one could be openly gay with no such repercussions, the "strong bias" would end. See how that works?
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2010, 11:03:58 am »
I always find that repubs are skitzo.  They talk about freedom and the gov't staying out of our lives.  Yet, they want to be in our lives the most.  Most of them hated when the Supreme Court ruled the laws about anal sex were unconstitional.  Reagan ran up the debt more than all other presidents combined.  We know how Dubya doubled the debt.  Clinton had balanced the budget and was paying down the debt.  He left a huge surplus.So, I don't know what the repubs actually stand for these days.  I think they are all like Sarah--just catch phrases and slogans.  No substance.

Same thing with big business - they claim they stand for individual freedom, yet they vote in the direction of corporations.... Over individual people. Places like Mossville, LA, are a direct result of Republicans voting for big-business over individual rights. They're rhetoric doesn't stand-up when it come to lobbyists' payoffs.
 :-[
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,155
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2010, 04:00:45 pm »
Dear, you're only fiscally conservate if it pertains to others. If it pertains to you, not so much. Sorta like a tea bagger.

What a nasty baseless accusation to make.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2010, 08:55:31 am »
Well yeah, because if a person was gay, they'd be kicked out. If one could be openly gay with no such repercussions, the "strong bias" would end. See how that works?
Sweetheart, Back then there was no DADT.  Actually, expect if caught in the act, the Navy didn't do much.  You just got harassed, or ignored by fellow sailors.  And you'd make your own friends with people you trusted and liked you.  But I wish I was in the Navy if that "Strong Bias" did not exist.  I would of had a great sex life in there.  I mean it would have been an orgy every weekend, if not everyday.  A man in CrackerJacks is a turn on for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2010, 09:01:53 am »

Sweetheart


Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2010, 09:11:34 am »
There was an old joke (I'm horrible at telling jokes, so if anyone else has heard this..): One day a young man was drafted into the war. He really didn't want to go, so when he reported to the office he told the lead officer during the physical examination that he was gay, a pacifist and flat-footed. "So am I. Unfortunately for both of us that doesn't work during the draft - NEXT!" :)
There was another old joke in 1981 told to me by a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy where a Sailor wanted out of the Navy and decided to tell the Navy Commander in charge that he was gay.  The Commander said "OK," and asked the sailor to drop his pants and turn around.  The sailor did as ordered.  At this time the Commander just watched the sailor ass.  The Sailor got nervous, pulled up his pants and left the office.  This was, and it was before DADT, to let us Sailors know that saying you're Gay is not the way to get out of the Navy, for the Commander or whom ever will embarrass you and may fuck your ass.  But I always wonder what if they did fucked and enjoyed it.  It sounded more like and incentive to me.  lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2010, 09:15:11 am »
Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)
OK Beautiful   ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2010, 09:37:28 am »

OK Beautiful   ;)


That's better, handsome. ;D
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,155
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2010, 09:40:04 am »
Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)

Well now you're just wrong

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2010, 09:50:38 am »


Well now you're just wrong


Yeah, well, it happens on the rare occasion.  :-\


It's my understanding that navies around the world have had a long-standing "tradition" of men having sex with each other aboard ship, even men who would otherwise have sex with women while ashore. Something not much talked about though, and dealt with by not so much a DADT-type policy, but rather a "look the other way" policy. Am I mistaken? Hope not, don't want to be wrong twice on one day - that would set a record. ;D


Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 13,455
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2010, 12:34:39 pm »
Guess you know Paul Cadmus's famous canvas:  The Fleet's In



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cadmus

In 1934 he painted The Fleet's In! while working for the Public Works of Art Project of the WPA. This painting, featuring carousing sailors, women, and a homosexual couple, was the subject of a public outcry and was removed from exhibition at the Corcoran Gallery. The publicity helped to launch his career. He worked in commercial illustration as well, but Jared French, another tempera artist who befriended him and became his lover for a time, convinced him to devote himself completely to fine art.[1]


THE PAINTING IS ON DISPLAY IN THE NATIONAL NAVY ART GALLERY - so yeah it seems no big deal as long as it isn't publically a big deal, as it is these days, because we have to dismantle DADT.  Well, you have to break some eggs to make an omelete. Can't happen fast enough.  
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2010, 08:36:08 am »
1,000,000 Strong for Repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT)
http://www.facebook.com/Citizens4RepealDADT?ref=search&v=wall#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline red_Dragon888

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,845
  • Love and Be Love in Return
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2010, 05:25:54 pm »
Guess you know Paul Cadmus's famous canvas:  The Fleet's In



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cadmus

In 1934 he painted The Fleet's In! while working for the Public Works of Art Project of the WPA. This painting, featuring carousing sailors, women, and a homosexual couple, was the subject of a public outcry and was removed from exhibition at the Corcoran Gallery. The publicity helped to launch his career. He worked in commercial illustration as well, but Jared French, another tempera artist who befriended him and became his lover for a time, convinced him to devote himself completely to fine art.[1]


THE PAINTING IS ON DISPLAY IN THE NATIONAL NAVY ART GALLERY - so yeah it seems no big deal as long as it isn't publically a big deal, as it is these days, because we have to dismantle DADT.  Well, you have to break some eggs to make an omelete. Can't happen fast enough.  
Nice Painting...  Ahh the good old days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

Off Crystal Meth since May 13, 2013.  In recovery with 20 months clean time.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2010, 05:46:18 pm »
Nice Painting...  Ahh the good old days.

I personally feel things have gotten MORE conservative and backwards... :-\
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2024 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.