POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: KRBClapton on September 15, 2006, 11:34:10 am
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I noticed that CDC states that "95% of people infected will test positive in 3 months and 99% at 6 months." Simple question is the window period 3 or 6 months? And if it is 3 months, why hasn't the CDC updated their policy and percentages?
You all do great work. Thanks for everything.
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KRB,
The window period is three months and your guess is as good as mine as to why the CDC website insists on carrying outdated information. I blame the current administration in the White House with their penchant for Abstinence Only and mythology led hiv prevention programs.
The fact is that the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A negative result at six weeks must be confirmed at three months.
Is there a specific incident you're worried about?
Ann
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I am concerned because I have taken 3 HIV test: an ELISA at 6 weeks and two Oraquick (Gum Swab Method) tests at 12.5 and 14.5 weeks. All of them have come back negative. I am still concerned over this 6 month policy of the CDC.
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Ann, is a negative test at 6 weeks a good sign? I recently posted about my concerns, and had a 6 week test that was negative.. I was just wondering.
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1sp,
Return to your own thread.
MtD
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KRB, you are HIV negative. Period. End of story. No kidding.
Believe me, unfortunately if you search around for bits to feed your worst fears on the web you will definitely find them. However, that doesn't change the HIV science based reality that a negative at 13 weeks means you are HIV negative. THe exception would be if IV drug use or a seriously impaired immune system due to cancer treatment or such was involved. Since I don't believe either of those to be relevant to your situation you can count on the negative result(s) you have received.
Get off the worry wagon right now. You're good to go.
Cheers,
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Are there any scientific articles or studies on the Internet that prove the 3 month window as definitive and conclusive? If so, what are they and where can I find them?
I keep reading things about the generation of a HIV test. What generation is an Oraquick considered? What does it mean with respect to the other generations of testing out there?
Thanks
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Testing Articles from the CDC's Training Guide.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/gap/pmtct/Trainer%20Manual/Adobe/Module_6TM.pdf#search=%22Module_6TM.pdf%22 (http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/gap/pmtct/Trainer%20Manual/Adobe/Module_6TM.pdf#search=%22Module_6TM.pdf%22) You'll find your answer about window period and testing, oh somewhere before page 11.
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Thank you very much and keep up the excellent and superb work!!
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Is it possible to get HIV from performing oral sex on a female?
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KRB,
I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
Going down on a woman is NOT a risk for hiv infection.
Make sure you read the Welcome thread. Not only will you find our posting guidelines there, but you will also find links to the Testing and Transmission Lessons.
Ann
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Thanks for the quick and sorry about starting a new thread. I later found my answer on this website:
http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/stdchart.asp
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Would cuts in my mouth change whether oral sex on a woman is a risk?
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Cuts or nicks in the mouth does not change the assessment.
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Am I correct in believing that no one has gotten HIV from giving oral sex to a female or receiving oral sex from a female, and that the oral sex risk comes from giving oral sex to a male?
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Is testing warranted if all I have done since my 14.5 week negative HIV test was given oral to a female?
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No, you don't need to test.
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Am I correct in believing that no one has gotten HIV from giving oral sex to a female or receiving oral sex from a female, and that the oral sex risk comes from giving oral sex to a male?
I never got a response to this question. I am just looking for confirmation in my thinking.
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I never got a response to this question. I am just looking for confirmation in my thinking.
Is anyone going to answer this question?
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There is nothing more to answer. Your questions have been answered in previous posts.
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Just curious, how does one become an expert for this forum?
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KRB,
No, there's never been a proven, documented case of oral transmission when going down on a woman. And yes, the only risk associated with oral is GIVING a blowjob, and that risk is very, very minimal.
Most of us who give advice here are hiv positive. We don't just talk about hiv prevention, we live it. We need to know how to keep our loved ones safe. Some of us are in long term relationships with negative people and they stay that way because we use condoms. Condoms work. The people who give advice here also read the scientific literature on hiv transmission and testing - and understand it as well.
Ann
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Where can I find some of this scientific literature?
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KR,
You can try searching on the internet, but you might not have a lot of luck getting the full text studies because normally there is a subscription fee involved. I'm fortunate in that I have access to the NHS database - which includes access to journals such as BMJ and many others I can't remember the acronyms of - through the nursing college here on the Rock. Unless you've been trained to read scientific studies, you're likely to come to the wrong conclusion when reading them - so be careful. I'm not saying that to insult your intelligence either - those things are written in gobbledygook and unless someone has given you a decoder ring... ;)
I also have the NAM HIV&AIDS Treatments Directory and the NAM AIDS Reference Manual which are available for purchase through the AIDSmap website. I also have most of the i-Base information books, many of which are available for download at i-Base website.
And I've got reams of studies concerning transmission I've printed out from the database I mentioned earlier - they're in a binder next to my desk. I hardly look at them anymore, except when a new study is published, because I could recite this stuff in my sleep and according to my partner, I sometimes do.
Try reading the Transmission lesson that is linked to in the Welcome thread. Every last piece of information in there is backed up by research and studies. Tim Horn, the author of that Lesson, specialises in taking medicalese and translating it for the general public. He, up until quite recently, was the editor of a publication for busy physicans who want to stay up to date on all the latest research and wanted the information presented in a condensed, easy to digest format. You can trust the Lessons content here at AIDSmeds.
Seriously mate, this website is "founded and operated by people with hiv". If there's a better, more up to date or accurate website out there, I've yet to find it.
And that going down question you're so worried about, my partner has remaind hiv negative for seven years of doing just that. Do you think I'd let him for one second if there was a danger?
Ann
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Thanks Ann for replying to my above statements and being frank and open about your own experiences. You told me to read the Transmission lesson, which I did. I am still concerned because of this following paragraph:
Like the study of fellatio, evaluating the risk of unprotected oral-vaginal sex (cunnilingus) is difficult, given that most people surveyed in studies did not avoid other types of unsafe sexual activity. However, there have been case reports highlighting one case of female-to-female transmission of HIV via cunnilingus and another case of female-to-male transmission of HIV via cunnilingus. Both of these cases involved transmission from receptive partner (the one receiving oral sex) to the insertive partner (the one performing oral sex). There haven't been any documented cases of HIV transmission from the insertive partner to the receptive partner.
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KRB,
Yep, I know about those two cases but I don't put much faith in them. They are both old cases (can't remember off hand what the years were) and they were both based on what is known as patient reporting. In other words, that was the only risk the patient would admit to. There's never been a case where going down on a woman was proven absolutely to be the source of infection. If this were a real cause for concern, we'd be seeing more cases like this (c'mon, two in over twenty five years?) and we'd be able to prove, without doubt, at least some of them through modern genotyping methods.
Because patient report is so unreliable, there have been three large, long term studies of serodiscordant couples. In the couples who used condoms correctly and consistently for anal or vaginal intercourse, but not for any type of oral activity, not one, NOT ONE of the negative partners became infected. These studies involved hundreds of people over as many as ten years, which translates into thousands of person-years. And not one person became infected through any type of oral. This shows us that 1, condoms do work and 2, oral sex is far, far less risky than previously believed, going by the notorious patient report. These studies were mentioned in the Transmission lesson as well as the bit you chose to quote.
So the ball is in your court mate. If you want to worry and test over oral sex, that's your call. You have to conduct your life in a way that makes YOU comfortable.
You should be having regular, routine sexual health care screening anyway. If you don't already include this as part of your normal healthcare routine, it's time to start.
Ann
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Ann,
Thanks again for answering my questions. I know that you might be getting a little annoyed at my questioning, I do apologize for that. I will try not to post anymore questions on the oral-sex on a female topic.
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KRB,
I don't mind answering questiong - even when someone is questioning why/how we know what we do - as long as I get the sense that the information is being absorbed and understood. It's only when the same person keeps asking the same question over and over and over again that I start getting a little annoyed.
Just remember to use condoms for intercourse and get regular, routine sexual health screening and you'll be just fine. Think of it like going to the dentist for your yearly check up. You go even if you always brush your teeth and so you should always get a sexual health check up even if you always use condoms.
I've just scrolled up and discovered I never gave you my usual pep-talk on keeping yourself safe, so here it is, just in case you missed it in your travels around the forum.
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection.
Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Use condoms and avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
Ann
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If one only performs protected intercourse, vaginal or anal, without condom breaks and they have tested once for HIV and test negative. What is the need to test yearly for HIV?
By the way, I have been tested after every unprotected heterosexual exposure for every STD so there was no need for your standard statement. But thank you for caring for myself to remind me.
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Alright I have tried to resist posting again on here, but I can't. During the week after I performed oral sex on a woman, I have experienced some coughing and I have been blowing my nose a lot. I also find myself checking my stomach and sides for a rash and taking my temperature constantly. I apologize for posting again, but I really did try not to post again.
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If you have symptoms go to the doctor. There is nothing anyone can do for you on the internet.
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Any other comments, Ann?
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KRB,
Why would I have further comments? Going down on a woman isn't a risk for hiv infection. If you're worried about your throat, go see a doctor and get swabs done. We cannot diagnose you, you need to see a doctor face-to-face for that. You told me off for giving you what you seemed to think was obvious information last time I replied to you - and this information I'm giving you now is also obvious and a no-brainer. Go see your doctor.
Ann
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Everyone,
I really don't know you if you guys and girls care anymore since I probably ticked a few of you off, but I went to the doctor today about my sore throat. Because it is an university clinic, I was sent to a nurse. I told her that I wanted to have the full range of STD testing done. I am still waiting on the results on all of them, but HIV which was negative via OraQuick Advance. I still was worried while I was waiting, but I guess that will always be the case. When the doctor finally took a look at my throat, her response was "wow, your tonsils are huge." So she swabbed my throat and tested me for mono (which was also negative). She said that it looks like strep throat, but I will have those results on friday. She prescribed me antibodics anyway. I will inform you of the results of my other tests when I receive them.
Thank you for putting up with me!
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Have you ever had tonsillitis? Have you ever thought of that? You weren't at risk, so you need to stop the HIV thinking.
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Yes, I have heard of tonsillitis since it is commonly caused by a virus or bacterium. I am just hoping that the tests will reveal the true cause of my swollen tonsils. I am assuming by your response that tonsillitis is not a symptom of HIV. I know that your response will be "no risk, therefore no need to worry about symptoms," but I would still like to know.
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Yes, I have heard of tonsillitis since it is commonly caused by a virus or bacterium. I am just hoping that the tests will reveal the true cause of my swollen tonsils. I am assuming by your response that tonsillitis is not a symptom of HIV. I know that your response will be "no risk, therefore no need to worry about symptoms," but I would still like to know.
Tonsilitis is an inflammation of the tonsils. If you want to know more about it talk to your doctor. We're an HIV/AIDS website, we don't do tonsilitis.
It's all explained in the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0). Help us to help you by reading it.
MtD
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I am concerned because I have taken 3 HIV test: an ELISA at 6 weeks and two Oraquick (Gum Swab Method) tests at 12.5 and 14.5 weeks. All of them have come back negative. I am still concerned over this 6 month policy of the CDC.
KRB,
This oral incident you're so worried about must have happened months ago. You've tested conclusively negative over a no-risk event and not only that, but what ever is going on with your throat isn't very likely to have anything to do with it.
I get the feeling that you are equating sex with illness. That is pure myth - something cooked up in the fevered imaginations of the religiously dogmatic. In the real world, there are other causes of illness besides sex.
If you find you cannot sever the ties in your head between sex and illness, maybe it's time to sort that out with a counselor.
In the meantime, we've done all we can for you here. It's time for you to move on - and you are headed for a time out if you chose to use this site to continue questioning your conclusive negative result over a no-risk incident.
Ann
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Is testing warranted if all I have done since my 14.5 week negative HIV test was given oral to a female?
Ann,
The oral sex episode actually happened two weeks ago. The first testing questions were about another exposure.
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I am sorry about the confusion about how recent my oral sex exposure was.
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KR,
All I can say is that if giving a woman oral freaks you out so much, either don't do it or use a barrier such as clear plastic food wrap or a condom cut in half lengthwise.
But whatever, you didn't have a risk of hiv infection by going down on a woman. Test again if you must, but be prepared for that disappointing NEGATIVE result yet again.
Ann
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Ann,
I am putting my sexual activity on hold for awhile until I can figure things out in my head with my counselor. Even though it does not appear to be helping any, your and the rest of your colleagues' advice has been very helpful.
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Ann,
In one of the other threads, you make mention of the few cases of cunniligus HIV transmission as coming from a study that was discredited. What was this study? How did it become discredited?
FYI: I am seeing a counselor and was placed on Zoloft to control my anxiety
Thanks
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KR,
The discredited study I was talking about was the one that resulted in different sexual acts being assigned a risk ratio. They were pulling numbers out of thin air.
There haven't been any proven, documented cases of transmission during cunnilingus. There has been patient report, but patient report is notoriously unreliable.
The most reliable studies we have on this subject are the serodiscordant studies. I also talked about them in the thread you comment on so I'm not going to repeat myself here.
Ann
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Does anyone have any theories on why the CDC classifies oral sex on a woman as a risk?
Thanks
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KRB,
The CDC is funded by the White House, the same White House that favours Abstinence Only sex education that has been proven to not work. The same White House that thinks stopping people who love each other from getting married is more important that basic Human Rights. The same White House that believes you will go to Hell if you have sex outside a traditional heterosexual marriage. Need I say more?
And if nothing else, it's a CYA (cover your ass) policy.
Ann
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Ann,
That is what I was thinking. It is just nice to know that my thoughts on their reasoning are not so far fetch.
Thanks once again
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Hello everyone,
Just bringing you up to date. I have received a 6-week negative test result from my cunnilingus episode. I know it is no surprise to you all but I just figured I would pass on the information. Thanks again for all your knowledge and compassion.
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Hello everyone,
I am just curious about the percentage of people who test positive at or before 6 weeks. I know you all continue to say that the vast majority test positive by 6 weeks, but what percentage is vast?
I don't even know if such data exists. If you all feel like such information might cause people in real risk to stop testing at 6 weeks, please PM an answer if you would so kind.
Thank you all once again.
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As it is repeatedly said, the confirmation result is from your 13 week test.
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Thanks for the reply RapidRod. I understand that my test was conclusive. I am just curious about the percentage that is all.
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KR,
I don't know of any specific percentages. What I do know, from five years of reading the Am I Infected forum, is that I've yet to see someone test negative at six weeks and go on to test positive after. And that is including people who have had definite risks, yet tested negative. As you have been repeatedly told, going down on a woman is NOT a risk.
I have also talked to several doctors and nurses at the clinic I attend and not one of them has witnessed a six week negative change to positive by the three month conclusive test.
I'm also fully expecting the window period to officially drop to six weeks sometime in the next few years. But for now, we stick to the official three month mark.
Ann
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Another update:
I had a 9 week Oraquick test, which was negative. The reason why I had another one was I have developed a fever and a horrible ear ache.
Thanks again
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Another update:
I am scheduled to take another Oraquick Advance test on Monday. This 86 days from that cunnilingus episode. I am really not expecting a response, but I just feel the need to keep all of you informed.
I will post my results soon as I receive them.
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Final update:
I tested negative at 86 days from a cunnilingus episode. Thank you all!
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I know I shouldn't be asking this question, but here it goes.
About a week after I got my test results, I began to have symptoms of a productive cough, fever, joint and muscle pains. After rest and some medicine, the fever and pains went away, but the productive cough remained. About two weeks after the fever and pains went away, both symptoms can back with an increase in the productive coughing. I went to the doctor and was given antibiotics. After two days on the antibiotics, the fever and aches went away. Four days on the antibiotics, cough has turned into almost a dry cough with it being productive in the morning as soon as I get up.
I am asking because the doctor said it was a flu-like illness and bronchitis (sp). Any chance that these symptoms could be caused by HIV? Beside the negative test result, could the fact these symptoms showed up as late as they did ruled out HIV?
Once again thanks and hope all of you had a great holiday season
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Here's an update for you.
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.