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Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: thunter34 on July 10, 2007, 11:43:38 pm

Title: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: thunter34 on July 10, 2007, 11:43:38 pm: Dear Members of the Flock,

I rejoice in bringing you the following. It is a 30 minute instructional video starring Kirk Cameron on how to steer lost little mo's back into the fold. Shot in San Fransisco, I felt it a timely lesson as we prepare for our own mission into Sodom.

Praise!

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=23ee92b285b362c916ca (http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=23ee92b285b362c916ca)
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: Life on July 11, 2007, 12:00:16 am: Is this where all suck ass actors go to make a buck?
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: allopathicholistic on July 11, 2007, 12:15:50 am: The new Pope says Kirky and his kind are all fluff anyway. I guess that means you too Pastor Tim

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2056515.ece
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: aupointillimite on July 11, 2007, 01:05:57 am: I love how following the Ten Commandments is the sole criterion for being a "good person."

This whole vid was a real meeting of the minds. Idiots interviewing idiots.

All of this makes me quite happy that I have a large academic interest in ethics, philosophy, and theology... the fact that Kirk Cameron can convince some "out and proud" homos that they're going to Hell with a bunch of specious, circular arguments makes a great case for liberal arts education.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: mjmel on July 11, 2007, 04:55:43 am: I watched 5 mins of the total 28 mins. I was really pleased with the first 5 gay interviewees comments.
If someone wants to throw the words of the Bible at me (always in judgemental fashion) I am quick to show I am not pleased.
I don't buy this business that the Bible is the Word of God verbatim.
I won't put Christ out of my heart....not for gays nor for Christians.
Just commenting.
xxx,
Mike

(amended post for clarity.)
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: thunter34 on July 11, 2007, 12:39:04 pm: I thought the transsexual was fabulous...."Let's just stop this interview right here!"

Honestly, I was just so stunned hearing Kirk Cameron prattle on like he did that I posted as a knee-jerk reaction. I had heard that he had gone fundamentalist in recent years, but hearing it straight from the horse's ass was a different experience altogether. It's kind of funny how this is billed as ministering to gay people in an non-offensive way. Sounds like the same old lines to me. Particularly funny in the most deliciously twisted way was hearing Kirk and crew speak of the perils of lying to one's self. Ummm......never mind. ::)

Blessed Be!
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: thunter34 on July 11, 2007, 12:52:00 pm: And for allo: I guess the photo below sums it all up.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: allopathicholistic on July 11, 2007, 01:02:44 pm: Quote from: thunter34 on July 11, 2007, 12:39:04 pm
I thought the transsexual was fabulous...."Let's just stop this interview right here!"

Honestly, I was just so stunned hearing Kirk Cameron prattle on like he did that I posted as a knee-jerk reaction. I had heard that he had gone fundamentalist in recent years, but hearing it straight from the horse's ass was a different experience altogether. It's kind of funny how this is billed as ministering to gay people in an non-offensive way. Sounds like the same old lines to me. Particularly funny in the most deliciously twisted way was hearing Kirk and crew speak of the perils of lying to one's self. Ummm......never mind. ::)

Blessed Be!

I liked how the TS stood her ground and didn't fly off the handle. All the interviewees as a matter of fact. What I didn't care for were Kirk's assumptions. How does he know someone's relationship with Jesus? A few quick [railroad] questions simply don't cut it. But he did make interesting analogies. I'm glad I watched. Oh yeah, true dat wit' da bling. Homey-stromey is livin' large
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: thunter34 on July 11, 2007, 01:08:07 pm: I've learned that I am only a commandment or two from total damnation (although I admit that I suspected that to be the case for some time now).

I've lied, lusted in the heart....and I've definitely coveted my neighbor's ass...

Is it getting warm in here or is it just me?
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: aupointillimite on July 11, 2007, 01:08:22 pm: Actually, there is a very interesting sociological change that this video represents.

Namely, that a video produced by fundamentalists regarding homosexuality twenty or even ten years ago would have used the words "abomination," "perversion," and "demon-possessed" a lot more often. They would have also solely focused on faggotry as if it was some uniquely horrible sin.

The fact that the producers of this video, while still coming from the same place theologically, realize that they aren't going to convince anyone with outright homophobia anymore. These steadfast Christian soldiers are bowing to the winds of the culture at large and including homosexuality among a list of sins rather than focusing on just it. They have also taken the rather remarkable step of interviewing Sodomites themselves, rather than focusing completely on the ridiculous behavior of liver-scarred drag queens at a pride parade.

Does this make the video progressive? Of course not.

However, it does show that American culture has changed enough to the point where they know that they convince and convert with outright bigotry anymore.

In that respect, this battle in the Culture Wars is being won.

Hooray for us.

I wish they'd interviewed me, though. Believe me when I say I wouldn't have been rhetorically tripping over myself like those lame faggots.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: RapidRod on July 11, 2007, 01:24:48 pm: Damn I'm in big trouble.
My heart is bad.
I have lusted and I've whacked off so many watching Kirk, I can't count them and I still think he's cute today. I think I have to go toss one again while I have his vision in my head.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: lotuslander on July 11, 2007, 03:02:45 pm: There's a Nightline moderated debate on evolution vs creationism on YouTube. It's entertaining in that Kirk and his buddy go up against representatives of a group called Rational Response, who aren't having any of that God stuff and don't succumb to the badgering our Silly Sisters in San Franciso did. And of course, it's unedited.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65mjKTRm6E&mode=related&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65mjKTRm6E&mode=related&search=)

This is part one.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: Bucko on July 11, 2007, 04:14:42 pm: Am i the only one who found it scripted and fake?

I'll admit that I shut it down after fewer than five minutes. When the first guy says that he was "married for a bit, didn't work, so I thought I'd try women" (like a cashmere sweater?) I smelled an artificial argument where all the talking points can be brought out.

Kirk's attitude doesn't surprise me. Child actors are generally pretty fucked up. There's something about show biz that just twists people's thinking, especially the young.

Brent
(Who finds shilling for Christ distasteful)
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: pozattitude on July 11, 2007, 05:27:18 pm: I'm going to take this whole issue one big step farther. This is my view on religion.

Religion, of any denomination, sect or ilk, is the basis of nearly all that's evil on our lovely planet. Religion is not here to make anything better, it's only purpose to divide and separate us. We're the chosen people, you're not. Our God is the real God, yours is false and profane. Although we must show love and compassion for other members of our own religion, those of any other can be killed, tortured, and maimed because they're infidels. Religion, at its very heart, means I'm right and you're wrong, or you're right and I'm wrong, but someone's always got to be wrong.
I say that religion is the pretext for evil on our planet. Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds.

Rich
(who does not believe in any gods)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: Matty the Damned on July 11, 2007, 05:45:23 pm: (http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/matty_the_damned/hindley.jpg)

MtD
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: lotuslander on July 11, 2007, 06:13:49 pm: Now you've got me started.

I can only speak about Christianity but I do know that it's is a construct of man, not God. It is a form of government. It was the first form of government. Way back when in the Middle Ages, the Pope was the last word. It was based on greed and empire building. It was a vast fortune. Those who had the money paid to have a pope installed. Forgiveness for sins was sold. Originally, priests were not celibate; they married like anyone else. The church forbade marriage because whatever wealth the priest had when he died could then go to the church, not his family. If you spoke out against the church, you were executed.

I don't know how, but we were born with the need for love and the capacity to give love. It's when someone tries to qualify or quantify that that we get religion.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: Bucko on July 11, 2007, 06:59:52 pm: Quote from: lotuslander on July 11, 2007, 06:13:49 pm
Now you've got me started.

I can only speak about Christianity but I do know that it's is a construct of man, not God. It is a form of government. It was the first form of government. Way back when in the Middle Ages, the Pope was the last word. It was based on greed and empire building. It was a vast fortune. Those who had the money paid to have a pope installed. Forgiveness for sins was sold. Originally, priests were not celibate; they married like anyone else. The church forbade marriage because whatever wealth the priest had when he died could then go to the church, not his family. If you spoke out against the church, you were executed.

I don't know how, but we were born with the need for love and the capacity to give love. It's when someone tries to qualify or quantify that that we get religion.

Lotie-

Not to nitpick darling, but Xtianity was built on the crumbling ruins of the Roman Empire. Civilization's beginning keeps getting pushed further and further back, but they've located settlements in Turkey that go back over 10,000 years. Government's been around as long as someone's had a possession they felt was worth protecting, so that dates back more than 100,000 years, perhaps much much more.

But the kind of evangelical protestant xtianity that Kirk & pal does such a good job of shilling for comes from the Puritans who settled Massachusetts in the early 17th Century and has, alas been with us from the beginning of the US. They were persecuted in England because they were batshit crazy. Even the Dutch found them out of whack. They came to our country after having been driven out of Europe.

There's been a lot of patriotic air-brushing since the 19th Century, when Romantic types were looking for heroes. But never forget that these were bigoted insufferable fools who exiled mothers into the wilderness for heresy and who killed men and women in the superstitious belief that they were practicing witchcraft for decades after they'd arrived.

Brent
(Who grew up just north of Plymouth)
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: aupointillimite on July 11, 2007, 07:18:16 pm: Quite right, Brent. And it only makes sense that the Catholic Church would have become a de facto form of government during the decline and collapse of Roman administration in Western Europe. Catholic hierarchy is based on old Roman imperial hierarchy, and the Church was the only institution with any legitmacy and credibility in what had been the Western Roman Empire by 500 CE.

It was quite a chaotic time... essentially knocked that part of Europe to a level of economic simplicity that it hadn't seen since the Iron Age. And really, we can thank the Church for copying all those ancient books, poems, laws, philosophies, and ideas of the Greek and Roman civilizations... the ones that influence us today and stuff. The Germanic peoples burned or lost those documents, Christian monks copied them.

Now, of course... the idea of a religion constituting government is nothing short of ridiculous. But this is now, not 1500 years ago.

And yes, Kirk's brand of Christianity would probably be unrecognizable to even the "heretics" of the Late Roman Empire... who disagreed with the Roman church... but weren't completely batshit insane like the fundies.

Benj
(Who owns more books on this historical period than should be allowed.)
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: marc11864 on July 12, 2007, 06:02:15 pm: Does anyone else feel as unsettled as I do that Kirk chose to give an interview while driving on Bay area roads? :o
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: pozniceguy on July 12, 2007, 06:35:46 pm: I watched as much as I could ..about 10 mins... then decided this was way too much propaganda and one sided BS to listen any more.....I think that any "celebrity" who uses their notoriety to push this type of pseudo "love your neighbor" stuff is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for a cause... especially since the underlying message is so clear..."gay is wrong" ..no matter how many words and modifiers are used that is the message...
To Hold the "bible" as your guide is such a shallow sales pitch...that book has been rewritten, edited and "interpreted" dozens of times in many languages.....most of the original texts that were used to "create the bible" have not been widely studied or accurately translated.....Of course the constant reference here is to the "new testament" conveniently ignoring the earlier "Old testament" ( except for the 10 commandments ) writings and the long history of Buddhism , and the many oriental dieties that are widely accepted by a majority of the world population....
Overall I think this guy is a jerk trying to regain some sort of standing in a "film" or as a "reporter" since he can't be a "child star" any longer.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: GSOgymrat on July 12, 2007, 06:52:07 pm: I admit I didn't watch much of the clip. I've come to the conclusion discussing religion between people of different belief systems just isn't very productive. It just gets people riled up. No one is going to convince me that Jesus is my savior and I'm not going to convince anyone of faith that Jesus isn't their savior, and I don't even want to try to do that. For me it doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality. I don't agree with many core Christian values and I don't agree about the nature of the human experience. It's a pointless argument and the best we can do is agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: allopathicholistic on July 12, 2007, 07:35:21 pm: Quote from: pozniceguy on July 12, 2007, 06:35:46 pm
Overall I think this guy is a jerk trying to regain some sort of standing in a "film" or as a "reporter" since he can't be a "child star" any longer.

I disagree. I think Klueless Kirk is a good boy at heart, he's just, well, clueless. I think his current standing in film is starring in Christian movies, mostly of the Left Behind series

So in the video it said the effeminate won't get to Heaven. Who's gonna break the news to poor Simon Cowell? :D
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: CaptCarl on July 12, 2007, 10:00:59 pm: Quote from: allopathicholistic on July 12, 2007, 07:35:21 pm
So in the video it said the effeminate won't get to Heaven.

So then I take it that effeminate straight guys are doomed, and butch gay guys will make it through the Pearly Gates?
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: ndrew on July 13, 2007, 12:04:47 am: Ugh, that was like choking on regurgitation.

I wonder though, "a man should not lay with another man as he lay with a women," sounds more like one should do group sex or three ways...

This also does not address hermaphrodites. If you are born with a penis and a vagina or parts thereof, what then? I guess you just fuck yourself.

Drew
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: allopathicholistic on July 14, 2007, 11:47:26 pm: Quote from: abqcarl on July 12, 2007, 10:00:59 pm

So then I take it that effeminate straight guys are doomed, and butch gay guys will make it through the Pearly Gates?

Quote from: ndrew on July 13, 2007, 12:04:47 am
This also does not address hermaphrodites. If you are born with a penis and a vagina or parts thereof, what then? I guess you just fuck yourself.

lol you guys
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: aupointillimite on July 14, 2007, 11:57:11 pm: Quote from: ndrew on July 13, 2007, 12:04:47 am
This also does not address hermaphrodites. If you are born with a penis and a vagina or parts thereof, what then? I guess you just fuck yourself.

I think in that case, you become a perpetual motion machine... eternally bouncing between the gates of heaven and hell... can't get into one on a technicality... got of the other on a technicality.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: Razorbill on July 15, 2007, 03:04:20 pm: to note aupoint: Benedict says there's no more limbo. You have to park yourself somewhere. I'd opt for Paris.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: JDP3 on July 15, 2007, 07:48:43 pm: Jesus, protect me from your faithful.
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: fondeveau on July 15, 2007, 10:04:53 pm: http://www.ucccoalition.org/

At the United Church of Christ, we love you just the way you are.

God made Adam. God made Eve. And, Steve, too.

So stop broadly condemning all Christianity with such a broad brush -
Title: Re: Youth Pastor Tim Presents: How to Minister to Gay People
Post by: Matty the Damned on July 15, 2007, 10:09:17 pm: United Church of Christ? That's not a REAL church, it's paint-by-numbers, make-your-own-rules-as-you-go-along diet christianity for those who can't deal with the fact that homosexuality is prohibited by the Bible.

MtD