This Way Something Nasty Comes

[Matty the Damned]

In the beginning there was Wikipedia, an online psuedo-encyclopedia populated by pedants, wanna-be teenage cyber tyrants and Asperger Syndrome weirdos.

Then came Conservapedia, where inbred home-schoolers can learn about Jesus, the homosexual agenda and how christians are persecuted in these End Days.

Now direct from Sweden we have Metapedia because, let's face it, Conservapedia just isn't right wing enough. From the Metapedia mission statement:

Another important purpose of Metapedia is to become a web resource for pro-European activists. Metapedia makes it easy for our cadres to expand their knowledge on various important subjects, and also functions as a searchable reference.

Furthermore Metapedia gives us the opportunity to present a more balanced and fair image of the pro-European struggle for the general public as well as for academics, who until now have been dependent on strongly biased and hostile “researchers” like Searchlight, Anti-Defamation League, Southern Poverty Law Center, Simon Wiesenthal Centre, and such.

Don't be fooled by the nice neutral Ikea like main page. These people give a whole new perspective to the adjective "vile". Try doing a search at MP for "homosexual", "Adolf Hitler" (apparently he was a poet, artist and German nationalist) or "Negro".

MtD

[Basquo]

Oh, my, who is that handsome scholar in the wine-coloured housecoat on the home page?!  WOOF!

But really, Wikipedia is for when I'm considering doses and the 8-pound PDR is across the room, or the boyfriend won't answer the phone. So I'm very sorry that someone decided to mock it to further their own agenda.  I've been ignoring politics on the internet for several years, just skipping right over it.

At least xtube doesn't redirect to godtube.  Yet.

[Matty the Damned]

Wikipedia is also an excellent resource for delicate types interested in fey homecrafts and butterfly torture.

MtD

[AndyArrow]

It will be interesting to see if this website is allowed to stand or if the European Court of Human Rights will try to have it shut down.  They are breaking European statues (which they acknowledge) about denying the holocaust.

AA

[scud44]

Metapedia makes interesting reading - obviously written by a group, all with bright blue eyes and blond hair. who wear khaki shirts and shorts and are avid supporters of Hitler Youth.



Regards
Scuddles

[Matty the Damned]

A whois lookup on 'metapedia.org' reveals:

[Querying whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
[whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
Domain ID:D98176845-LROR
Domain Name:METAPEDIA.ORG
Created On:19-May-2003 22:54:18 UTC
Last Updated On:04-May-2007 13:08:04 UTC
Expiration Date:19-May-2010 22:54:18 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:GODA-027411605
Registrant Name:- -
Registrant Organization:NFSE Media AB
Registrant Street1:Box 1869
Registrant City:Linkoping
Registrant Postal Code:SE-58117
Registrant Country:SE
Registrant Phone:+46.13128990
Registrant FAX:+46.13128991
Registrant Email:admin@nfse.se
Admin ID:GODA-227411605
Admin Name:- -
Admin Organization:NFSE Media AB
Admin Street1:Box 1869
Admin City:Linkoping
Admin Postal Code:SE-58117
Admin Country:SE
Admin Phone:+46.13128990
Admin FAX:+46.13128991
Admin Email:admin@nfse.se
Tech ID:GODA-127411605
Tech Name:- -
Tech Organization:NFSE Media AB
Tech Street1:Box 1869
Tech City:Linkoping
Tech Postal Code:SE-58117
Tech Country:SE
Tech Phone:+46.13128990
Tech FAX:+46.13128991
Tech Email:admin@nfse.se
Name Server:NS3.LOOPIA.SE
Name Server:NS4.LOOPIA.SE

Note that blank fields have been left out by Matty the Damned.

So they're hosted by GoDaddy but registered in Sweden.

MtD

[scud44]

I tend to agree with Andy arrow that they might have a short web life

They're far to much to the right for me


Regards
Herr Scuddles

[AndyArrow]

I have sent and email to The Swedish Prime Minister Fredrick Reinfeldt requestiong action be taken.  I don't know how much weight an email from a US citizen will carry but it's a start.  I would hope other people would do the same.

Anyone wishing to contact the Prime Minister of Sweden can use the link below:

http://www.sweden.gov.se/pub/road/Classic/article/117/jsp/Render.jsp?a=70244&m=popup&l=en

AA

[Matty the Damned]

Andy,

Matty the Damned appreciates and sympathises with your position, but he wonders if there isn't an issue of freedom of expression tied up in all of this. Should outfits like Metapedia be closed down or do they have a right to espouse their views no matter how revolting they might be?

Rather than forcing these odious pratts underground, wouldn't we be better served by leaving them out in the open where they are subject to criticism and rebuttal?

As you note, you're a US citizen and as such you enjoy certain constitutional protections. Those same protections allow people like Fred Phelps and Stormfront to run wild on Teh Intawebs. Shouldn't they also be taken out?

Please note that I'm not having a go at you here, but rather I'm saying these questions always perplex me.

Regards,

MtD

[AndyArrow]

MtD,

I understand your position completely. Free speech is a wonderful concept.

I do however think that some speech should be prohibited.

Holocaust Deniers need to be prevented from spreading their hate and that is why I am strongly in favor of the laws in France, Germany and Austria (to name a few) who make it illegal to deny the holocaust.  I wish the US had similar laws.  I know I am probably in the minority but that is my opinion.

I did not think you were having a go at me ... I always welcome other peoples ideas and thoughts in hopes that it will expand my thinkg and my views.

AA

[Matty the Damned]

Oh believe me, I'm not decided on the issue of unfettered freedom of expression.

Australians have no clear cut freedom of speech. Our constitution contains what's called a "implied right of political discourse" but not much else. Here our various Parliaments have considerable reign to restrict what people can and cannot say.

For example in New South Wales (my home state) we have laws which make it an offence to vilify homosexuals (or those perceived as being homosexual) and people with HIV/AIDS. There are also racial vilification laws. For these purposes "vilify" means "to incite hatred, contempt or severe ridicule".

It should be noted that no such protections are available for heterosexuals.

Hate speech laws have always left me conflicted.

MtD

[AndyArrow]

Internal conflicts are what make us human. 

At least to my way of thinking.  On this issue I have no such conflict but I understand why you do.

AA

[Matty the Damned]

I'm sure you don't Andy.

But wait until someone like Phyllis Schlafly attempts to categorise what you say as hate speech with all the attendant consequences.

Then you mightn't be so quick to stick your lavender coloured boot down another's throat.

MtD

[AndyArrow]

I have no such lavender coloured boot and don't shove my opinion down anyones throat.

I find hate speech & holocaust deniers indefensible, as do many EU countries, unfortunately for me my own country does not.


AA

[Matty the Damned]

Then you should bring all the power and wit at your disposal to argue against these people, rather than trying to shut them up by force of law. In that way you expose the falsehood of their various positions and by extension educate others.

You know, casting light into the darkness and all that.

My larger point is that your right to express yourself (which you seem to do with admirable regularity) rests on the same platform as the tragic and intellectually crippled folk at Metapedia.

MtD

[AndyArrow]

Then you should bring all the power and wit at your disposal to argue against these people, rather than trying to shut them up by force of law.

And I on the other hand think we should do both.  So, I think it is wonderful that you have brought the Metapedia website to peoples attention.

AA

[Matty the Damned]

And I on the other hand think we should do both.

I submit that it is not possible to do both,

MtD

[AndyArrow]

Then I respectfully disagree.

AA

[thunter34]

I'm of the mind that in freedom of expression situations, the answer tends to be in more speech - not less. 

Ugh...I didn't even think to look up Holocaust last night when I saw this.  The Negro entry alone was enough for me.

In terms of sheer personal revulsion, I think this stands as the nastiest Net Nasty I have seen from Matty's Mucky Bucket yet.

Animal innards and objects in orifices don't really phase me beyond shocked laughter.  This one did.

It earns its red link like no other I've seen.

[MarkB]

This site is a total nightmare. Its political intentions are stated quite clearly:

Metapedia has a metapolitical purpose, to influence the mainstream debate, culture and historical view.

And as such, is a pointer to the resurgence of European Neo-Nazism:

German National Socialismis the ideology of the National Socialist German Workers Party which was led by Adolf Hitler. Its aim is creating [N.B. note the interesting use of the present continuous] a socialist state which is nationally aware, especially about matters of race and heritage. Post-war National Socialist parties have appeared in most of the White countries of the world.

... and how about this little snippet?

Culture
National Socialism, apart from other political movements, is not only concerned in political matters, it also consists of a way to regard culture and European heritage.
You can say that again.

Of particular interest to me was the glowing account of:

… South Africa's outstanding history … South Africa has the largest White population in Africa. The Republic of South Africa now [ ] includes 9 Black tribes who migrated into the area around 1500 and were granted independence between 1959 and 1981. [A most revealing take on the history of the region, in my view.] The incorporation of these developing cultures in 1994 has seriously stunted and endangered the Afrikaner Nation …

(As Matty mentioned earlier, see also the entry for Negro).

The debate about unfettered freedom of expression will run and run, but I'm not so sure we should only be '... leaving them out in the open where they are subject to criticism and rebuttal'. As groups like these have a specific political agenda (and a very definite end in view), I would rather they were compelled to come out into the open; made to declare themselves and their intent, and taken on in precisely that arena of public intellectual and political debate. We know what happens when we say nothing; or when we allow ourselves to think 'this could never happen again'.

Respect and regards,

A
 

[thunter34]

The debate about unfettered freedom of expression will run and run, but I'm not so sure we should only be '... leaving them out in the open where they are subject to criticism and rebuttal'. As groups like these have a specific political agenda (and a very definite end in view), I would rather they were compelled to come out into the open; made to declare themselves and their intent, and taken on in precisely that arena of public intellectual and political debate. We know what happens when we say nothing; or when we allow ourselves to think 'this could never happen again'.

I'm a bit confused by that last part there.  Isn't that just what "leaving them out in the open where they are subject to criticism and rebuttal" is?  That was my take on it.

And for the record, although I said (and still maintain) that this is the nastiest Net Nasty I have seen from Matty, I must say that I am particularly appreciative of this thread contribution from him - both for the exposure of this Metapedia site and the subsequent dialogue. 

[MarkB]

I'm a bit confused by that last part there.  Isn't that just what "leaving them out in the open where they are subject to criticism and rebuttal" is?  That was my take on it.

Apologies. English isn't my first language ... 

A 

[Dachshund]

Proven time and time again sunshine is the best antiseptic.

[chm02]

Proven time and time again sunshine is the best antiseptic.

Right on, Dachs!

As one who has lived under oppressive political regimes - from Libya to Myanmar to Colorado Springs - my experience has been that the more individual ideas are suppressed, the more potently septic and dangerous they become.

[BlueMoon]

Is this for real?  It reads like a parody, along the lines of Landover Baptist Church.  "Featured article -- Beat Up A White Kid Day."   

I'm all for suppressing speech and thought, until someone wants to suppress my speech and thought.

[Matty the Damned]

It's for real. The Swedes aren't famous for their sense of humour.

MtD

[AndyArrow]

Right on, Dachs!

As one who has lived under oppressive political regimes - from Libya to Myanmar to Colorado Springs - my experience has been that the more individual ideas are suppressed, the more potently septic and dangerous they become.

And yet in Germany (which punishes holocaust deniers) has less violent racialy motivated crime per capita than the US which doesn't punish hate speech.

[AndyArrow]

Here is a list of EU countries  who currently make holocaust denial a criminal offense:

Austria
Belgium
Germany
France
Italy
Spain
Slovakia
Poland
Switzerland
Luxembourg

[chm02]

And yet in Germany (which punishes holocaust deniers) has less violent racialy motivated crime per capita than the US which doesn't punish hate speech.

But there are so many other reasons why America might have more violent racially-motivated crime. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[AndyArrow]

But there are so many other reasons why America might have more violent racially-motivated crime. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

I believe by allowing hate speech we become  corruptor iuventutis

[Matty the Damned]

By allowing hate speech we become corruptors of youth eh?

The quote from Cicero is nice, but I think it runs a touch dramatic. I have to agree with Chm here when he says you're tripping yourself up with a logical fallacy.

MtD

[chm02]

We have to be careful that we are not outlawing ideas, not because all ideas are equally good or valid, but because of the repercussions of their suppression.
I think that in between giving hate speech free rein and its complete suppression, there's a balance to be struck.
Outlawing hate speech altogether is too much like denying the existence of certain ideas, which I think is dangerous not only on a national, but also on a personal level. If the man next to me has a dagger, I would rather know about it than not.

[AndyArrow]

By allowing hate speech we become corruptors of youth eh?

The quote from Cicero is nice, but I think it runs a touch dramatic. I have to agree with Chm here when he says you're tripping yourself up with a logical fallacy.

MtD

Again I disagree ... we believe what we are taught as children.  Ask most Americans ... or heck as most anyone who the first President of the United States was and they will tell you George Washington, because that is what we were taught in school.  However the US declared Indepence in 1776  and George Washington wasn't elected until 1789.  Jon Hansen was the first President and George Washington was then ninth.

I too believe a balance needs to be reached but I find holocaust denying indefensible,

AA

[Matty the Damned]

I think we all agree that denying the holocaust is indefensible both morally and factually.

I was taught many erroneous things as a child which I have subsequently come to reject when I learned the truth. I do not accept that we protect our children by shielding them from the unpalatable realities of the world such as there are horrid people (like those running Metapedia) who tell appalling lies and spread hatred.

Surely it's better that young people (people of all ages for that matter) learn to identify such falsehoods and how to address them by means of critical thinking?

MtD

[chm02]

I too believe a balance needs to be reached but I find holocaust denying indefensible,

AA

Yes, as do I!
But to push such ideas out of sight is too close to denying them.  As Nietschze said, when in the business of slaying monsters, one must be careful not to become a monster oneself.

[AndyArrow]

I hardly think Belgium, which punishes holocaust deniers, is likely to become a monster.

As I have said, I know that my opinion in the minority but nothing you have said changes my opinion. 

I have seen no horrible consequences from the EU states that criminalize this form of hate speech.

AA

[chm02]

I hardly think Belgium, which punishes holocaust deniers, is likely to become a monster.

As I have said, I know that my opinion in the minority but nothing you have said changes my opinion. 

I have seen no horrible consequences from the EU states that criminalize this form of hate speech.

AA

Perhaps you are right, perhaps there would be no great consequences.
But that notion doesn't sit well with me, an American in 2008 who has watched our nation's Constitution and Bill of Rights be systematically dismantled by an administration who keeps telling us there will be no great consequences.

[thunter34]

Perhaps you are right, perhaps there would be no great consequences.
But that notion doesn't sit well with me, an American in 2008 who has watched our nation's Constitution and Bill of Rights be systematically dismantled by an administration who keeps telling us there will be no great consequences.

word.

[AndyArrow]

Perhaps you are right, perhaps there would be no great consequences.
But that notion doesn't sit well with me, an American in 2008 who has watched our nation's Constitution and Bill of Rights be systematically dismantled by an administration who keeps telling us there will be no great consequences.

I don't really see the correlation between the brazen acts of the Bush Administration and a law criminalizing holocaust deniers. 

And I will continue contacting representatives from EU countries to try to shut down Metapedia.

Since I seem to be offending people on so many issue I think I shall discontinue to post

[Matty the Damned]

Andy,

You more than welcome to continue lobbying for the closure of Metapedia. That's your right. Further I'm sure I speak for all of us in this thread when I say that you haven't offended anyone.

On the contrary, it's been a most stimulating and interesting conversation.

Be well,

MtD

[chm02]

Oh! I didn't mean any offense! And you certainly did not offend me!
I enjoy the exchange of ideas, actually.

[chm02]

I don't really see the correlation between the brazen acts of the Bush Administration and a law criminalizing holocaust deniers. 

The correlation is that both are/have been about the supression of free speech.

...just explaining myself here...

-Mark

[GSOgymrat]

Adolf Hitler according to Metapedia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCJTR3XeiAc