POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Pre-HAART Long-Term Survivors => Topic started by: ubotts on June 27, 2007, 11:03:50 am
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Hi all,
I started taking meds when my tcells were down to 27..that was in 2002..
Iam up to 241 in tcells, viral load is undetectable, but was wondering if i can
ever get past 300-350 in tcells............I have seen others numbers and it seems
iam the lowest.. :-\Does anyone have a clue as how i can get past at least 300 tcells.......thanks for trying to help me..
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I started meds at 4 t-cells and a 750,000 vl. It has been an up hill battle over the past 10 years on meds. I have been to 667 t-cells with an undetectable viral load then got gastritis and couldn't digest them any more. I went to 58 t-cells and THEN had to stop meds before I became resistant. I had not had a viral load in years.
I was off meds for 6 months. I didn't get a viral load until 5 months had passed. I dropped to 42 t-cells and a 35,000 viral load. It has been 2 years and for the first 18 months I could not get over 170 t-cells for the life of me. I went on 2 PI's and Videx EC and take them absolutely on time and don't miss.... I am finally up to 376 t-cells and undetectable viral load.
They say that if you are undetectable then you are alright. If you are healthy... you are alright...I say "GIVE ME T-CELLS" and emotionally I will be alright.
They can't even do a pheno on you without a viral load. I did hear that they can do a type of geno test without t-cells. Ask your doc and see if you can get that test. You might be borderline on your meds.
Good luck to you and keep up the fight....it is better than the alternative!
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I highly recommend doing fuzeon if you are a long-timer. You'll get your numbers up if you combine it with the new Prezista. If you can't handle injections once Isentress (new Merck intigrase inhibitor) (http://www.aidsmeds.com/archive/MK-0518_1639.shtml)becomes FDA approved in September you can combine that with Prezista.
Everyone I know that has gone on the Fuzeon/Prezista combo has had phenomenal results. I just posted a thread about my past year on this combo and I went from 500 cd4's and a VL of 30,000 (had been at that VL level forever... never was undetectable) and now this past month I have 1425 cd4's (yes!) and my VL has been consistently undetectable for 12 months.
I think a lot of doctors are very timid about recommending Fuzeon when, in fact, it's a miraculous drug. If you're not having higher numbers why don't you simply INSIST on a more progressive treatment regimen from your doctor? While I agree that an undetectable VL is the primary goal, if your cd4 count is still not high your immune system is still weak and it's not ideal. With the availability now of newer treatment regimens I totally believe in being more aggressive in my choices, and fortunately have a doctor that thinks the same way as he's in charge of the largest clinical trials in my area.
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Philly,
I was on Fuzeon for 3½ years (along with Sustiva and Tipranavir, then with Sustiva and Prezista). Although my VL reached undetectable, my T-cells never got above 220.
For me, Fuzeon was very effective in fighting the virus, but it did not work miracles with my T-cells.
I switched from Fuzeon to Raltegravir (aka Isentress) in March. My viral load continues to be undetectable, but my T-cells are still stuck at around 200.
Although my T-cells have hovered around the 200 mark for the past few years, I have not had any opportunistic infections or any other significant problems. So, it is possible to get along pretty well even with only 200 T-cells. Because of my T-cell level, I do continue to take Septra daily. I started to take selenium (200 mcg/day) a couple of months ago. It's supposed to help boost the immune system. I just had lab work done this morning. I'll know in a week or so if the selenium is doing any good.
Allan
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You are not alone. Poz for over 23 years and my T-Cells have never been above 350 since I began testing in early 1991. With that said, I can relay to you that I have always been asymptomatic (except for problems relating to medicinal side-effects), never having had an OI, and I am still on the "first-line" of medications with VL <50, T-Cell count of 348, 18%.
It is frustrating but as long as you can remain in good health, all things considered, its better to have a sustaining count than to be bouncing up and down continually. Here's hoping you see the 400's soon!
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I should have been more specific if I didn't make it clear. The higher t-cells have been from the synergy of combining fuzeon with prezista, NOT fuzeon alone. In fact, my physician purposely delayed my going on fuzeon for an entire year because of what he was seeing in the clinical trials of the fuzeon/prezista combination.
That was the point of my post. Evidently they are seeing the same thing in trials of the combination of Prezista and the new Merck integrase inhibitor I linked to.
My point is that with the newer drugs coming out there is no reason to settle for "stable" but low cd4's. Mind you, I began at diagnosis with <200 cd4's.
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Philly,
Your initial post was clear to me. All I was saying was that even though I was on Fuzeon + Prezista + Sustiva, my CD4's never got much above 200.
I think that even the best HIV regimen can only lower your viral load. Once the viral load becomes undetectable, then CD4's generally rise. But there are factors that are different for each individual that determine just how high they will rise.
Allan
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Oh, I apologize. I missed where you stated you were also on Prezista.
Well, all I can say (and haven't we discussed this previously?) that your experience seems to be outside the average. And of course, on the other hand my huge increase in cd4's is ALSO outside of the average, but still the average is still a decent rise in cd4's. I think every person in my support group that is on this combo has at least doubled they're cd4 count if not more. All have of course reached VL suppression.
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Before starting the Fuzeon, Tipranavir, Sustiva regimen in Nov. 2003, my CD4's were 12.
So a CD4 count of 200 is more than sixteen times my starting point!
Allan
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So really that's a huge increase if you think about it.
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My T-Cells rarely if ever go about 300, and most recently posted 220 after being 20+ years with AIDS. The problem about switching to a drug combination by other people's experiences is that HIV impacts every body differently and therefore the drugs work differently on every body. For me, AZT made me anemic, Sustiva made me a crazy loon that couldn't sleep, and PIs have given me Lipoatrophy. The combination I'm on (Reyataz, Norvir, Viramune, Epzicom) has kept my viral load undetectable.....and I am satisfied with that even though my Tcells are still in the 200 range. I can not switch to other drugs because by doing so may impact my ability to switch back if needed. Mutations to Epivir has already been detected and have lost drug susceptability to others. So, I have to stick to my combination of drugs, until they fail, or they become 'obsolete' by all evidence available to the medical community. The failure of my current regiment will allow me to hopefully switch to others that I haven't tried and will work in its place.