POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: hopehope on May 24, 2013, 07:12:51 am
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I went to a hospital for anual blood drawing test. One person before me left some blood in the table, and the nurse sweeped it with one paper,but not very cleanly. When in my turn , I touched the place with my hand. After finishing my blood draw, about two minutes later, I touched the needle wound with the same hand. I am afraied it now. Because many persons come to this hopital for HIV test. Are there any risks to get HIV by this way.Do I need any test?
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Hope,
You do not need to test over this situation. Hiv cannot be transmitted from objects in the environment and that includes blood on a table.
Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies.
Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect.
Not one person has EVER been infected in the way you're worrying about and you are NOT going to be the first.
Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.
To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST FOR HIV OVER THIS HOSPITAL SITUATION, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.
Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv. Some of the other STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!
Ann
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Thank you very much, Ann. Somebody said the hiv virus won't die utill the blood become dried. Is it true? And Because the needle wound is deep enough into the vein. So I am worried about that. If there is some virus alive, it may go into body by the neeedle wound.
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Hope,
It's not only moisture content that matters, it's also pH levels and temperature. Hiv cannot remain viable and able to infect when it is outside the body.
If there were any validity to your worries, everyone in the world would be hiv positive by now.
You did NOT have a risk for hiv infection by any stretch of the imagination. YOU HAD NO RISK.
Ann
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Dear Ann,
Thank you very much. Can you provide some detail informaitons or materials about the hiv outside the body? There are too many different informaitons. I tried to move on ,but I find it isn't easy. If the fluid (blood) outside the body ,it can't remain infected immediately. This news will make great help to many persons in my city. Many persons here are anxious about HIV like me due to out date informations. But we don't know where we could get the newest information.I think i only can ask you for help. I don't know anybody can help us. We will very appreciate for you.
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Dear Ann,
Thank you very much. Can you provide some detail informaitons or materials about the HIV outside the body? There are too many different informaitons. I tried to move on ,but I find it isn't easy. If the fluid (blood) outside the body ,it can't remain infected immediately. This news will make great help to many persons in my city. Many persons here are anxious about HIV like me due to out date informations. But we don't know where we could get the newest information.I think i only can ask you for help. I don't know anybody can help us. We will very appreciate for you.
What information, precisely, are you looking for?
It has been common knowledge for decadesthat HIV cannot remain viable outside the human body, which is why it was so difficult to study the virus at all.
There is a wealth of information regarding this, of course. I just need to know what you need.
Here is the most rudimentary source I could find outside a paywall:
Survival of HIV in the Environment
From U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
July 29, 1999
Concerning the survival of HIV in the environment, two facts are:
HIV does not survive well outside the body.
HIV has to be grown in large amounts to be studied in laboratories.
Although HIV has been kept alive under certain laboratory conditions, medical authorities agree that the virus does not survive well in the environment. To put things into perspective, 1 milliliter (mL) of blood from a hepatitis B-infected person may contain more than 100 million infectious viral particles. In a dried state, hepatitis B virus, or HBV, may remain viable on surfaces for up to 1 week, and possibly longer. In contrast to the very high concentrations of HBV, the concentrations of HIV in the blood of infected persons are much lower. Estimates of the number of infectious viral particles range from a few hundred to approximately 10,000 per mL.
CDC laboratory studies have shown that drying HIV reduces the viral amounts by 90 to 99 percent within several hours. The concentrations of HIV used in some laboratory studies have produced results that have been used to alarm people unnecessarily. The results are not meaningful because:
the concentrations of HIV used were many times greater than that found in patient specimens;
the amounts of virus studied are not found in nature; and
no one has been infected with HIV due to contact with an environmental surface.
Neither HBV nor HIV are able to reproduce outside the human body, unlike bacteria or fungi which do so under suitable conditions. In laboratory studies of HIV and HBV, it was biologically necessary for these viruses to infect specific human or primate cells to complete their life cycles and thereby reproduce themselves.
If you have questions about HIV infection and AIDS, please call the CDC National AIDS Hotline at our toll free number, 1-800-CDC-INFO. If you wish to write to someone regarding this subject, please address your comments to us at:
CDC National Prevention Information Network
P.O. Box 6003, Rockville
Maryland, 20849-6003
Or send an e-mail message to hivmail@cdc.gov.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art17220.html
You may also want to avail yourself of our LESSONS section of this very website
http://www.poz.com/archive/2008_Mar_2168.shtml
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Thank you for all your help.
I read ANN's reply."Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies.
Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect."
I am looking for material refer to this. Could you and Ann help me? Thank you very much.
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Hi Hope , did you not read JK reply and thoughtful answers to your question ? If you read it again and click some links you will see all of your questions have been answered and then some .
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Hi, Jeff G. I have read the JK reply, and the link. But I can't find the material refer to the following comment. If I can find it , I will move on without HIV concern. And also the material will help many persons here like me. Thank you very much.
."Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies.
Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect."
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Survival of HIV in the Environment
From U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
July 29, 1999
Concerning the survival of HIV in the environment, two facts are:
HIV does not survive well outside the body.
HIV has to be grown in large amounts to be studied in laboratories.
Although HIV has been kept alive under certain laboratory conditions, medical authorities agree that the virus does not survive well in the environment. To put things into perspective, 1 milliliter (mL) of blood from a hepatitis B-infected person may contain more than 100 million infectious viral particles. In a dried state, hepatitis B virus, or HBV, may remain viable on surfaces for up to 1 week, and possibly longer. In contrast to the very high concentrations of HBV, the concentrations of HIV in the blood of infected persons are much lower. Estimates of the number of infectious viral particles range from a few hundred to approximately 10,000 per mL.
CDC laboratory studies have shown that drying HIV reduces the viral amounts by 90 to 99 percent within several hours. The concentrations of HIV used in some laboratory studies have produced results that have been used to alarm people unnecessarily. The results are not meaningful because:
the concentrations of HIV used were many times greater than that found in patient specimens;
the amounts of virus studied are not found in nature; and
no one has been infected with HIV due to contact with an environmental surface.
Neither HBV nor HIV are able to reproduce outside the human body, unlike bacteria or fungi which do so under suitable conditions. In laboratory studies of HIV and HBV, it was biologically necessary for these viruses to infect specific human or primate cells to complete their life cycles and thereby reproduce themselves.
If you have questions about HIV infection and AIDS, please call the CDC National AIDS Hotline at our toll free number, 1-800-CDC-INFO. If you wish to write to someone regarding this subject, please address your comments to us at:
CDC National Prevention Information Network
P.O. Box 6003, Rockville
Maryland, 20849-6003
Or send an e-mail message to hivmail@cdc.gov.
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Dear Jeff G, I have read this. But still can't find information which can prove the comment. "Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect."
And I also have some doubt on this CDC informaitons. Can you explian to me. "no one has been infected with HIV due to contact with an environmental surface.
Neither HBV nor HIV are able to reproduce outside the human body, unlike bacteria or fungi which do so under suitable conditions. "
No one has been ifected with HIV due to contact with environmental surface. Is it including the blood in the environmental surface? even small amout blood outside human body only for about 1 minutes? In my case, there is small amout blood in the table, and I touch the same place, then one minutes later touch my blood draw needle wound. Is there any risk?
HIV aren't able to reproduce outside the body. But if the virus outside the body, and then going to another body. What happen? Ann said the air, temputuer changes will damaged the virus very quikly. if this is true, I won't have any risk. But I can't find the material indicate this.
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HIV is not a contagious disease, as transmission outside the body would certainly indicate. HIV is an infectious disease, requiring specific cells, namely cd4 and certain dendritic cells, to come into contact with viable viral particles.
What attaches to these specific cells (located within the body, and lining the surface of the vagina and urethra, and sometimes underneath the foreskin of uncircumcised males) are glycoprotein stalks, namely GP120 and GP41. These stalks, that look like spikes dotting the surface of the virus, are ONLY able to attach to CD4 and similar cells, and NOT able to attach to skin, scabs, or any surface of (or in) the body that does not have these cells in abundance.
Can HIV be isolated from dried blood? Absolutely. Can it be cultured from dried blood? Nope. This is because the glycoproteins GP120 and GP41 quickly dissolve when removed from the protective temperature, PH, and anaerobic status found in blood, semen, and cervical mucosa.
To date, millions of families have taken care of HIV positive loved ones, including changing bloody sheets, diapering them, wiping them of soiled bodily fluids, and comforting them as they perish - often without the protection of latex gloves or other healcare barriers. These people do not contract HIV.
Millions of couples where one partner is HIV positive and the other HIV negative live and have intimate relations, including procreation, without the negative partner contracting HV. Some of the positive partners have no discernible viral loads, others have high viral loads. Other than using a condom for anal and vaginal sex (or not at all to procreate, when the positive partner's viral load is suppressed through medication and/or the negative partner takes prophylactic medication to avoid infection) these partners live normal lives, bathed in one another's flora and fauna, without infection.
HIV can be isolated in sweat and tears. VIABLE HIV cannot be harvested from these fluids - because the environment strays beyond the acceptable levels of aerobic content, pH and temperature.
No doubt you have been reading about HIV being isolated in everything from dried blood, to corpses after nearly half a month, to wet blood.
But forgive me if I seem pedantic, but HIV is not "alive" in the manner you seem to identify it. It is a virus that contains ONLY RNA, not DNA. In order to reproduce, it MUST penetrate a host cell (the aforementioned cd4 cell and/or Monocytes, monocyte-differentiated dendritic cells) and then inject these cells with RNA, then the viral single-strand RNA genome is transcribed into double-strand DNA, which is then integrated into a host chromosome.
In no way, shape or form can these circumstances exist/persist in the environment. If these circumstances had proven possible, then HIV would necessarily be classified a contagious, rather than infectious disease.
These circumstances are difficult to achieve in the most optimal circumstances. The highest risk is receiving a transfusion with infected blood containing a high viral load, with a steep drop-off to infecting infected blood into your veins while sharing IV drug equipment, receptive anal sex, receptive vaginal sex, and finally insertive anal and vaginal sex.
I am struggling with the information you require to comprehend that you have had no risk in the scenario you present. I defer to the other moderators to communicate where I seem to have failed.
Some sources That will likely do little to assuage you, since parsing them depends on your ability to dissect first tiered peer-reviewed sourcing, and you have yet to demonstrate that you have read any of the sources I have supplied thus far:
Cunningham, A.; Donaghy, H.; Harman, A.; Kim, M.; Turville, S. (2010). "Manipulation of dendritic cell function by viruses". Current opinion in microbiology 13 (4): 524–529. doi:10.1016/j.mib.2010.06.002. PMID 20598938. edit
Douek DC, Roederer M, Koup RA (2009). "Emerging Concepts in the Immunopathogenesis of AIDS". Annu. Rev. Med. 60: 471–84. doi:10.1146/annurev.med.60.041807.123549. PMC 2716400. PMID 18947296.
Kumar, Vinay (2012). Robbins Basic Pathology (9th ed.). p. 147. ISBN 9781455737871
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Dear JK,
Thank you for your patience and long reply. I read it many times, again and again. It make me fill better. So What's your opinion? Is there little risk or no risk for me? Do I need any test?
I konw the infected materail must be injected into vein diretly which can cause infection. This is why I am so worried. Because the blood draw needle wound is connect to vein. I am afraid if there was some active virus contact the wound, and infect me by this way. Even there is no blood coming out of the needle wound then, But I think one or two minutes is not enough time to make the wound scabe and close completly.
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Hope,
You did not have a risk for hiv infection when you had your blood drawn. You are confusing your situation with the situation of intravenous drug users who are injecting INTO the blood stream. It's totally different.
We're not here to give you step-by-step microbiology or virology lessons, we're here to give risk assessments and you've had yours. NO RISK.
If you read the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
It does not matter if you've taken out a subscription - this rule still applies.
Please consider yourself warned!
Ann
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Dear Ann,
Thank you very much for all your help. I think I got your comment. There is no risk.I just want some material refer to the comment, if possible.I am very sorried for my annoy question.
All your work have make great help to me. Thank you.
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Hope,
You've already been given your answers by Jonathan and Jeff.
We're done here. I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!
Ann