HIV and financial security issues

[zeb]

Despite the news of the Dutch Rape Gang there's also good news coming from the Netherlands.

Nowadays it's possible for Dutch HIV patients to get a life insurance (that's no news) for a reasonable fee. What's new is that more and more some insurance companies are willing to accept a term of 30 years. the monthly fee is comparable to that of patients with other chronic illnesses. For example: if you want a life insurance to cover 110,000 euro's for 30 years you need to pay a monthly fee of 77 euro's instead of 48 euro's.

Besides the 30 year term it's also possible nowadays to get insured for bigger amounts of money. (for example 300,000 euro;s )

These possibilities are enabled thnk to tight cooperation of insurance companies and specialists in the medical field.

What this means for HIV patients is that they also can make long term financial plans and that they're enabled to buy their own poperty.

For me personally it means that I conclude that - even when insurance companies are willing to accept HIV patients - I have good hope for the future and feel myself less a walking corpse. Besides that it also means that HIV is more and more regarded as a normal condition instead of something that only happens to bad people.

The reason why I posted this is that I hope you'll also share this optimistic feeling with me, especially when it comes to your own helath and long term prognosis.

grtz
Zeb

[Miss Philicia]

While I'm happy for you it's probably difficult for me to truly share in your joy as your experience is not replicated for us in the US.

[redhotmuslbear]

While I'm happy for you it's probably difficult for me to truly share in your joy as your experience is not replicated for us in the US.  

Besides, life insurance would not be for the financial security of HIVers themselves, but for the beneficiaries of the policies.  I locked in a life insurance policy almost 20 years ago, but the only role I see for it in MY financial security is the ability to borrow from the cash balance at a low rate of interest.  MY financial security is influenced by my ability to earn income in order to invest a portion of my earnings in long-term instruments like retirement plans, stocks, and a home.  Wipe away my health insurance, and I'd be really hurting if I was on meds.  Shrink my income or inflate my expenses, and my ability to save for MY future is adversely impacted.

David

[Miss Philicia]

I'd like to have a small policy to cover the bodily excrement I leave behind on the earth.

As far as other things my career was greatly curtailed and side lined years ago due to bad health.

[zeb]

While I'm happy for you it's probably difficult for me to truly share in your joy as your experience is not replicated for us in the US.

Thank you, isn't there any movement towards these possibilities in the US? I mean, the biggest advantages in the battle against HIV are in most of the cases coming from the US. Besides that Belgium is now also following the Dutch example.

I don't know how it is in the US, but in the Netherlands a life insurance is needed when you want to have a mortgage wich exceeds 80% of the value of the property. The life insurance is in this way an ingedient to savemoney for the future: buying property can be useful for retirement incomes.

[Grasshopper]

Zeb is painting the picture rosier than it in reality is. One needs to be on HAART, have an undetectable VL for at least 5 years and have had no O.I.'s during that period. And so far, only a few people have been able to obtain  insurance on their mortage.

If you are not on HAART, but yet healthy and never had an O.I.  , you still won't qualify.

[Miss Philicia]

I mean, the biggest advantages in the battle against HIV are in most of the cases coming from the US.

I'm assuming you're referencing purely medical advances with HIV?  Yeah, we're good with that because it involves money for private pharmaceutical companies.

For everything HIV related that has to do with peripheral "quality of life" socially related issues we suck.

Actually to be honest I have no idea if HIV comes into play in obtaining a mortgage here.  I've not heard of it being a problem so I guess maybe one doesn't need a life insurance policy for it.

Can anyone else here answer this for zeb?

[planonstaying]

Not quite the same issue but having to do with financial security
A bit over a year ago I was involved in a protracted strike that hurt me, the company and all employees financially. Crossing was never an option but I was thrilled when I could go back to work. I have never been great with money  and I was hurting.
I took a loan against 401k  and caught up some  but was still  limping when I got sick and started missing a lot of work.   I was able to take a bit of cash out of 401k  butmost was locked as collateral against loan.  I have been just treading water  all year  believing I could withdraw  what I needed to  get solvent again when loan was paid off May 30. Well, I went to take cash and I couldn't.  I was really panicked all weekend but kept telling myself it was because of loan....
Well Monday the fidelity rep told me "oh noez that's the company match so not available" When I pointed out  most of it was in fact my contributions the answer became " Oh noez cant touch that till retirement, perm disability, or job loss because it was before tax contributions" I could get a 500.00 emergency disbursal with documentation though... I was so fucking pissed.  It was money  I had removed and I couldn't  take it in time of real need???  He really tried being "nice" at one point I did say great so  the only one who gets that cash is my sister  when I die of AIDS and he was  real quiet for a second and I felt like ass  shrill emo ass afterwards.   I can take out another loan July 1  30 days after last one and will be able to take enough to pay arrears mortgage( may,June atm), arrears prop tax,  utility balances, arrears condo assessment,  and almost all the credit card debt I ran up.  I finally did the hard thing and told everyone they weren't getting paid, when they would,I had come down with a chronic condition missed a lot of work because of it.    My credit  will have 3 months of black marks. Financial stress sucks.  Once i can get loan I will structure it so it's painless to repay unlike last one.  I have never been great with money and I have to change that. This stress has been and is  toxic. I can't  rely on working 60 hours a week to dig out of any messes when I am struggling to work 40. 

I  think I may ask for SSRI, i have a lot of good days but still have some days i dont want to get out of bed i feel so overwhelmed. I can't afford to miss  any days   because i am emotionally bankrupt. i don't understand why i am so resistant to SSRIs.  I guess it's time to get honest look in the mirror and admit I need  more help while the ships still floating........GRRRRRRRRRRRR I am so frustrated  with all of this right now

Beyond just sharing some frustration with myself and the situation I would reccomend anyone contributing their money to a company sponsored 401k  have a  full understanding of it's accessability in the event  they have a situation it's needed.  I will restart  contributions again but will never  make  before tax contributions.

[ChaplinGuy]

As far as the mortgage question, I currently own 2 houses - both of which were purchased while I was positive (the first before I knew my status and the second just 2 months ago). I admit I do always laugh when I get those mortgage insurance promos in the mail, especially the ones that say "with no medical exam necessary."

I have my properties covered through my life insurance with my employer, which most large companies offer up to $300k-$500k without requiring an exam. And I still contribute heavily to my 401k - if nothing else, it reduces my total taxable income, which has immediate benefits. If I die early, well then my family is going to make out like a bunch of fat cats.

As for planning for the financial future, I am a heavy saver and invester, and always have been. I recognize my extreme good fortune to live the life I live - both in terms of health and income. However, we're not really facing a future any more uncertain than the regular Joe. We're all squirrels packing away nuts in hopes we live long enough to need to eat all of them. But there's no guarantees we'll be around to enjoy them. And that's just life.

[Miss Philicia]

So you do have to have life insurance for a mortgage you're saying ChaplinGuy?  So in fact, if you did NOT work for a large company that provides insurance with no qualifying medical exam you would not have been able to get the mortgage?

[zeb]

Zeb is painting the picture rosier than it in reality is. One needs to be on HAART, have an undetectable VL for at least 5 years and have had no O.I.'s during that period. And so far, only a few people have been able to obtain  insurance on their mortage.

If you are not on HAART, but yet healthy and never had an O.I.  , you still won't qualify.

Grasshopper,

You're not correct with this one. I don't know if you're Dutch too. But the guidelines were:
- cd4 > 200 within 24 weeks and VL < 500
- No complications (OI's I assume)
- on meds

Nowadays also people who are not on meds yet can be accepted.

the 5 years on meds is not an issue

grtz
Zeb

[jack]

you dont need life insurance to get a mortgage. Its nice to have in case you die your estate isnt stuck with mortgage to pay.  I have had to back out of two business opportunities because I couldnt get life insurance. Many small bus. use life insurance so partners dont have to work with the dead persons wife,they can buy her out with proceeds from life insurance. Its a must.

[Miss Philicia]

Grasshopper,

You're not correct with this one. I don't know if you're Dutch too. But the guidelines were:
- cd4 > 200 within 24 weeks and VL < 500
- No complications (OI's I assume)
- on meds

Nowadays also people who are not on meds yet can be accepted.

the 5 years on meds is not an issue

grtz
Zeb

Sounds like a reasonable set of standards actually.  And I'll add that I'm not being biased.  I've been on meds for 14 years and I'd not qualify for another year, assuming my current treatment continues to be as successful for one more year as it has been for the last year.

[Cliff]

So you do have to have life insurance for a mortgage you're saying ChaplinGuy?  So in fact, if you did NOT work for a large company that provides insurance with no qualifying medical exam you would not have been able to get the mortgage?

No, you don't need life insurance to get a mortgage in the US.  There are also some US insurance companies that will underwrite life insurance for people living with HIV (or guaranteed issue).  However, they tend to be expensive and not offer a significant amount of protection.

Offering life and disability insurance to people with HIV is great, but really it comes down to cost and how onerous the eligibility clauses are.

[Dragonette]

ik ben hou van Nederland 

modified to add: I'm beginning to understand how complex things are in the US. to be honest, after being in some really poor countries, like Cambodia, at first I thought, sure it is tough having HIV anywhere, but poz Americans tend to whine and complain, after all they have properties, boats, cars, the best drugs and treatment... but now I realize because of the moralistic backward majority in the US, things are way more complicated. I understand why there are so many infections (watching Farenheit 9/11 last night for the 3rd time also made me think a lot). I also understand that with the fierce capitalism, again having money is not enough, you can be downright refused insurance. This is a response both to this thread and the Africa thread btw. As usual, I don't know that I am biased till I break out of the bias.

[aztecan]

I bought my home in 2001 without luxury of life insurance, or rather, enough life insurance to pay off the mortgage.

I have a policy I bought many years ago which I am holding on to and whatever is offered through my employer.

I figure that should be enough to get rid of my carcass when the time comes and pay off any incidental bills.

Aside from that, I'm not worried about it. My home will be paid for in about 12 years and, aside from some miscellaneous credit card or medical bills, I have no need for life insurance because I have no heirs.

My family will get my property and what, if any, is left of any money in the bank. Aside from that, I don't worry about leaving anything else behind.

HUGS,

Mark