My boyfriend gave me HIV

[Tylerwarrenc]

He told me he was "undetectable" and assured me it was next to impossible to get it. he showed me articles about studies where people didnt get it from there poz undetectable partners.
today i found out he had AIDS with a CD4 count in the low 50's a year or two ago.
he was diagnosed almost 3 years ago.
He didnt have AIDS when i met him btw just a CD4 count in the 300"s
How should I feel about this. I love him and he loves me, but i cant stand the fact that he undermined everything and sugar coated it. I'm thinking about leaving him. If you where me what would you do?

[buginme2]

If you where me what would you do?

Suck it up.  You were just as responsible as he was.  You are not a victim in this.

[zettainaoru]

Get into treatment first, after you are stable then deal with him.

[Irish Eyes]

Not only was HIV the furthest from my mind but also a relationship.

I ended up with a 2fer.

The person I contracted from has become my partner.
I don't think I've been happier.

Actually I got a 3fer.
I was apparently straight too. Go figure.

There will always be doubts and fears, but you have to have 'The Talk", spit it all out, everything, no matter how insignificant you think it is. Discuss it.

Since Dec.'13 I've had my list of questions and constantly add to it.

Slowly we've been wittling away at it but as I get my answers, and he actually gets to unload what he has bottled up, not only is the weight lightened for both of us but we become closer.

You already have a history and it takes two to tango.

Granted we are total opposites, I'm suit & tie business type, he's shorts and flip flops, oh, and an escort.
From day one (see my initial post in 'I just tested poz') I knew this would turn to some kind of a relationship.

My fear and ignorance concerning HIV has gotten me to perhaps the happiest place.

[mecch]

He told me he was "undetectable" and assured me it was next to impossible to get it. he showed me articles about studies where people didnt get it from there poz undetectable partners.
today i found out he had AIDS with a CD4 count in the low 50's a year or two ago.
he was diagnosed almost 3 years ago.
He didnt have AIDS when i met him btw just a CD4 count in the 300"s
How should I feel about this. I love him and he loves me, but i cant stand the fact that he undermined everything and sugar coated it. I'm thinking about leaving him. If you where me what would you do?

More information about your boyfriend, please.
His CD4 count has nothing to do with his VL. 

1) Was he undetectable the whole time you were having unprotected sex?  If yes.... Risk was low.
2) Had he been undetectable at least a year, before you started to have unprotected sex? If yes.... risk was very low indeed.

If the answer 2) is "NO" - then he misread the research.
Furthermore, at lot of the research was on straight couples in long-term monogamous relationships.  Are you a gay couple?  Gay couples were very quick to co-op the Swiss Statement because it was self-serving to do so. There is research on gay couples and the risk was never "0". 

3) Very low risk does not mean no risk. 

_______


"Suck it up.  You were just as responsible as he was.  You are not a victim in this."
Buginme - that is a PRETTY STRONG statement to a first poster here, and someone newly diagnosed.  How about some kid gloves!? Jeez!


In nicer language, what Bug is saying is that we are all responsible for our own sexual health and the risks we take or don't take.

Maybe your bf didn't realise his information was a bit false, that there was no risk.
Or, maybe he did, and misrepresenting it, for selfish reasons.  Only you 2 can figure that out.

Next, no matter what info he gave you, it was somewhat incumbent on you to do the research for yourself.  Like ask a doctor.  However, I agree that for a few years, there was a pretty popular "party line" that such a situation as you 2 was extremely low risk and maybe "no risk". 

This year I have notice more caution, and experts take pains to say, low risk does not equal no risk.....

Again if he knew point 2) above, (that the UD status had to be confirmed over several tests), and he misrepresented that to you, you have a bit of a gripe but it is what it is.

____

How do you feel about discovering that he had an AIDS diagnosis.  You never discussed how long he had been infected and his experiences of living with HIV?   The only thing you discussed was that he was undetectable as of last test?
If you did discuss his history of infection, and he lied about his experience, then I do think he's selfish with information and in relationships.

How you feel about all this is up to you to suss out, for yourself. And to make up your mind about how to go forward.

I hope I gave some more neutral unpacking of the situation so you can think it through with more info and precision than the shock that you are understandably feeling at the moment.

[mecch]

Heres a recent summary of recent research:
http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748/

So they are careful not to say "0" but they kind of want to say its "0"

_______________

Besides the glitch in the relationship,

Welcome you here.  How are you doing with this diagnosis.

[buginme2]

Meech harsh yes,  I'll give you that. It was late.  My apologies

True though. I don't like this laying 100% off responsibility on the boyfriend. Even you meech "he may have read the research  wrong."   What about the op?  I assume the op can read research just as much as the boyfriend could have.  Before having unprotected sex with your hiv positive boyfriend you need to do your own due diligence. 

If your boyfriend was undetectable and remained so during all your encounters then I'm not convinced you got it from him.  If his cd4 is low it sounds like he had experience some viral breakthrough in which case he is infectious. 

I'm sorry for being harsh but....your still responsible

[mecch]

If your boyfriend was undetectable and remained so during all your encounters then I'm not convinced you got it from him.  If his cd4 is low it sounds like he had experience some viral breakthrough in which case he is infectious. 

I agree with this.

Just saying Bug, we could inform newbies with constructive info, and welcome them.

[Jeff G]

I agree with this.

Just saying Bug, we could inform newbies with constructive info, and welcome them.

Welcome to the forum Tyler .

[Tylerwarrenc]

More information about your boyfriend, please.
His CD4 count has nothing to do with his VL. 

1) Was he undetectable the whole time you were having unprotected sex?  If yes.... Risk was low.
2) Had he been undetectable at least a year, before you started to have unprotected sex? If yes.... risk was very low indeed.

If the answer 2) is "NO" - then he misread the research.
Furthermore, at lot of the research was on straight couples in long-term monogamous relationships.  Are you a gay couple?  Gay couples were very quick to co-op the Swiss Statement because it was self-serving to do so. There is research on gay couples and the risk was never "0". 

3) Very low risk does not mean no risk. 

_______


"Suck it up.  You were just as responsible as he was.  You are not a victim in this."
Buginme - that is a PRETTY STRONG statement to a first poster here, and someone newly diagnosed.  How about some kid gloves!? Jeez!


In nicer language, what Bug is saying is that we are all responsible for our own sexual health and the risks we take or don't take.

Maybe your bf didn't realise his information was a bit false, that there was no risk.
Or, maybe he did, and misrepresenting it, for selfish reasons.  Only you 2 can figure that out.

Next, no matter what info he gave you, it was somewhat incumbent on you to do the research for yourself.  Like ask a doctor.  However, I agree that for a few years, there was a pretty popular "party line" that such a situation as you 2 was extremely low risk and maybe "no risk". 

This year I have notice more caution, and experts take pains to say, low risk does not equal no risk.....

Again if he knew point 2) above, (that the UD status had to be confirmed over several tests), and he misrepresented that to you, you have a bit of a gripe but it is what it is.

____

How do you feel about discovering that he had an AIDS diagnosis.  You never discussed how long he had been infected and his experiences of living with HIV?   The only thing you discussed was that he was undetectable as of last test?
If you did discuss his history of infection, and he lied about his experience, then I do think he's selfish with information and in relationships.

How you feel about all this is up to you to suss out, for yourself. And to make up your mind about how to go forward.

I hope I gave some more neutral unpacking of the situation so you can think it through with more info and precision than the shock that you are understandably feeling at the moment.

Thank you for this post!
Okay well he is 31, I am 22. He is a nurse so a blindly trusted what ever info i received from him. Naive on my end, yes. He found out his CD4 count was in the 50's when he was diagnosed and then begain treatment 2 and a half years ago. He says he was undetectable when he met me (10 Months ago) but I havent heard what he was before that or when. His CD4 when we met was high 300's and now 10 months later it is mid 400's. Still i do not know his VL except that he is undetectable which must mean <50/m.
So from what he says he was undetectable while we had unprotected sex, but 2 and a half years ago he DID have AIDS with a CD4 of 50. So im not sure if that meant it would have been easier for me to contract HIV even though he was undetectable or whether it even matters at all that he had AIDS with such a low CD4. He says its just a number.
I'm not going to leave him but i feel so misled and betrayed, i should have asked questions, i should have done research. Ive been young and dumb. 10 months has gone by and not one mention of having AIDS, especially at such a threatening level. He is very lucky a OI did not take his life.
Hes a good man. But how i need to know if this is because of having AIDS 2 and a half years ago of if this is just an unlucky coincidence, where i happened to be one of the very low percentage that are infected from someone activity on ART's/ARV's.

And does this make it any different for my infection? could it be more vigilant?

thank you all for your replys!
your like therapy for me..
 

[Miss Philicia]

It's irrelevant that he had AIDS-defining cd4 count when diagnosed and before he became your boyfriend. However, you don't sound as if you have been boyfriends for very long if the subject was never discussed on his part, as it's usually a fairly dramatic experience.

It also seems obvious that you took his word that he was undetectable, meaning you never looked at his actual lab reports to verify this. If you are in a zero-discordant relationship taking someone's word about this is like taking someone's word that they are HIV-negative and get tested every six months (hey, I'm clean!).

I realize you are only 22 and people at that age are often not properly assertive in these matters, nor educated. But still common sense dictates being cautious with someone you seem to have only been dating 10 months. How many months of dating went by where condoms were used, or did you just go right into dispensing with them?

Word from the wise: just because someone is in a medical profession doesn't make the the smartest kid on the block, evidence of this is that your boyfriend obviously wan't having HIV testing regularly if he was diagnosed with a cd4 count as low as you say.

[Tylerwarrenc]

It's irrelevant that he had AIDS-defining cd4 count when diagnosed and before he became your boyfriend. However, you don't sound as if you have been boyfriends for very long if the subject was never discussed on his part, as it's usually a fairly dramatic experience.

It also seems obvious that you took his word that he was undetectable, meaning you never looked at his actual lab reports to verify this. If you are in a zero-discordant relationship taking someone's word about this is like taking someone's word that they are HIV-negative and get tested every six months (hey, I'm clean!).

I realize you are only 22 and people at that age are often not properly assertive in these matters, nor educated. But still common sense dictates being cautious with someone you seem to have only been dating 10 months. How many months of dating went by where condoms were used, or did you just go right into dispensing with them?

Word from the wise: just because someone is in a medical profession doesn't make the the smartest kid on the block, evidence of this is that your boyfriend obviously wan't having HIV testing regularly if he was diagnosed with a cd4 count as low as you say.

We used a condom a couple times, but that was it.
And we have all his lab reports stating he was undetectable, i was tested 4 months in to the relationship and was neg and then tested 3 months after that again as i was going to continue to do, but came up poz.

And yeah thats what I dont understand, why he never told me about having AIDS, i understand we are a fairly new relationship, but 10 months, and 8 of those months we have lived together, shared our lives. yet no one mention...
I guess i dont blame him for not telling me, maybe he was afraid It would scare me away.
I loved him with or without the HIV. And he knew that i was willing to risk a possible infection, though from multiple "studies" (and i use the quotes with aggravation and denial) I came to believe i had almost 0 chance of being infected.

(Not blaming him!) Here are some that he showed me:
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmobile.aidsmap.com%2FNo-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study%2Fpage%2F2832748&h=aAQEuA267

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebodypro.com%2Fcontent%2F70369%2Fundetectable-viral-load-essentially-eliminates-hiv.html&h=aAQEuA267

[mecch]

Ok but is it clear now that the AIDS diagnosis previous to your meeting him does NOT mean anything about how you got infected?
 
If you got HIV from him, either he was not undetectable, or you are a very rare case indeed, or .... someone else?   (He should have been reliable undetectable for AWHILE not as of one test, to have been convincing a partner to bareback. Also I suppose one could go the extra mile and get semen tested...  But whats done is done.  He also may not have been a very critical thinker about any of this. )

Yes, his not talking about AIDS is odd and you should be querying him on that because obviously it upsets you.  As I said in my first post, its not the most relationship friendly, trust building action on his part.

[Tylerwarrenc]

Ok but is it clear now that the AIDS diagnosis previous to your meeting him does NOT mean anything about how you got infected?
 
If you got HIV from him, either he was not undetectable, or you are a very rare case indeed, or .... someone else?   (He should have been reliable undetectable for AWHILE not as of one test, to have been convincing a partner to bareback. Also I suppose one could go the extra mile and get semen tested...  But whats done is done.  He also may not have been a very critical thinker about any of this. )

Yes, his not talking about AIDS is odd and you should be querying him on that because obviously it upsets you.  As I said in my first post, its not the most relationship friendly, trust building action on his part.

Okay I understand now that the AIDS Diagnosis had nothing to do with it, and thats good to hear.
And his labs all state undetectable and he was for a while before meeting me. So i guess the only real thing would be that im a rare case (hard to imagine because we didnt have all THAT much sex. i mean we did not dip into actual intercourse that often and ive only been with him 8 months at that point. and 4 or 5 of those months i was negative. So Its that, or someone else. Which I highly doubt as well, for we are monogamous, however there was a time or two where a 3rd had participated. And we have stopped doing that for the better of our relationship. And there status was neg (all info on my partner disclosed of course) or undetectable, to which level i do not know.
So lets say I got it from one of those nights where that had happened.
Would that mean we would have to be extra cautious in any future sexual acts? Condoms and healthy behavior?
Could we risk passing our specific strains to each other and causing a more vigorous infection?
And is there a way to determine if our strains are the same? (meaning I got it from him and it is a none mutated version)

Thank you guys

[mecch]

Did you have anything that can be construed as an unprotected sex act with these 3rd parties??

Just checking... Are you confirmed HIV+ Western Blot?
Have you gone for labs yet?

You know, for the moment, the facts of possibly hideous luck, and a possibly less than frank boyfriend, are important.

But eventually for life its going to be about you and how to live well HIV+....

[mecch]

When you go for labs, all those questions of what strain etc etc will be answered.

Don't worry too much about what strain etc.
You are very fortunate (in your otherwise bad luck) to identify an HIV infection so quickly and medicine will keep you quite well.

[Tylerwarrenc]

Did you have anything that can be construed as an unprotected sex act with these 3rd parties??

Just checking... Are you confirmed HIV+ Western Blot?
Have you gone for labs yet?

You know, for the moment, the facts of possibly hideous luck, and a possibly less than frank boyfriend, are important.

But eventually for life its going to be about you and how to live well HIV+....

It was a mixture of unprotected and protected. it happened about 5 or 6 times, then we stopped.
And yes it was + on Western Blot. And im going for my first labs tomorrow!
And I am a health nut, however sexually i guess i always denied the risk of exposure and for that i will never completely forgive myself. but I will live well, if not better then i would if i didnt have HIV just more motivation to live a healthy lifestyle with healthy behavior.

[mecch]

It was a mixture of unprotected and protected. it happened about 5 or 6 times, then we stopped.

Bingo.  Why are you sleuthing your bf, undetectable, when you had unprotected sex with 3rd parties....

[Tylerwarrenc]

Bingo.  Why are you sleuthing your bf, undetectable, when you had unprotected sex with 3rd parties....

Me and him are fine, my first post i was upset about not knowing about him having AIDS, i thought it was a big deal, but other then that, yes this was an occurrence that took place a few times as unprotected intercourse, the 3rd was always either undetectable as well or negative.
Im sorry but it is a little hard to to believe you contracted from someone else only having unprotected sex 3 or 4 times all single occurrences and disregarding that the one your with sexually every other time being HIV+.
Also that was in the beginning of our relationship, i tested negative much after all that, becoming + It was when we where monogamous.

[buginme2]

I'm reverting back to my original comment.

Welcome to the forums

[mecch]

yes this was an occurrence that took place a few times as unprotected intercourse, the 3rd was always either undetectable as well or negative.

Taken on trust by word of mouth?  You are pretty naive but now your eyes wide open, for unfortunate events.

Im sorry but it is a little hard to to believe you contracted from someone else only having unprotected sex 3 or 4 times all single occurrences

Of course one gets infected this way.  And really a lot of transmissions are happening in these permeable free love arrangements where people are declaring their status as of who knows what previous confirmation when...

and disregarding that the one your with sexually every other time being HIV+.
Also that was in the beginning of our relationship, i tested negative much after all that, becoming + It was when we where monogamous.

Ok, if the dates don't add up, all you are left with is your BF as the suspected transmission risk. But don't jump through hoops.  And as all the research says, really it should have been close to zero.  And you have confirmed you have seen the consistent undetectable lab results to prove it.


Meanwhile, you don't seem to have had the greatest safe sex knowledge, nor perfect impulse control, but join the club... 

If its possible it was a third party, it would be a good thing, no?, for solving mysteries and reconfirming your faith in medicine and its guidelines?

[Tylerwarrenc]

I dosent really matter anymore who i got it from i guess, it maybe i tested - because of the window of time to show a + result, and in that case did get it from one of those events during a weird stage in our relationship, or i got it from him, either way, I just want him and I to be safe now. So we are going to use protection from now on.

I do hope that i got it from him and our strains are the same, so in case something happens down the road there is no risk towards reinfection of a new strain, and i only say that because i plan to be with him for the rest of my life.
But if our strains our different then that just means we have to be very careful. which is all fine, its just a matter of, if could, i would.

I understand the mistakes i made in all of this, but now its what can i do to prevent any further ones. Of course we are strictly monogamous now so its not others im worried about, its just us now..

[mecch]

I just want him and I to be safe now. So we are going to use protection from now on.

I do hope that i got it from him and our strains are the same, so in case something happens down the road there is no risk towards reinfection of a new strain, and i only say that because i plan to be with him for the rest of my life.
But if our strains our different then that just means we have to be very careful. which is all fine, its just a matter of, if could, i would.

I understand the mistakes i made in all of this, but now its what can i do to prevent any further ones. Of course we are strictly monogamous now so its not others im worried about, its just us now..

You seem to want quick tidy solutions to questions, and for your rationales for game plans . You have a lot to learn about HIV and also I do hope your bf is more knowledgeable then the first impressions I got from a reading of this thread.

If you are both going to be on HIV treatment then all this stuff about "strains" and "reinfection", again, is extremely low risk to no risk.  Frankly will be irrelevant to your sexual practices.   But then again, you want to believe you got HIV from extremely low to no risk contact.

I am glad you are going to be safe with him, anyway. 

[Dan0]

I dosent really matter anymore who i got it from i guess, it maybe i tested - because of the window of time to show a + result, and in that case did get it from one of those events during a weird stage in our relationship, or i got it from him, either way, I just want him and I to be safe now. So we are going to use protection from now on.

So Its that, or someone else. Which I highly doubt as well, for we are monogamous, however there was a time or two where a 3rd had participated. And we have stopped doing that for the better of our relationship. And there status was neg (all info on my partner disclosed of course) or undetectable, to which level i do not know.

I guess I'm a little confused from "It dosent really matter anymore who i got it from..." vs. the title of the thread of "My Boyfriend Gave Me HIV"

You need to educate (both of you) on how this works and how just because someone SAYS something, doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate!  Just the title of the thread seems to indicate that you - at some level - blame your BF for your present condition when it is obvious from the evolution of the story that you both are responsible and behaved with less due diligence that you probably should have.  Now, the lessons learned from this aren't necessarily to be just safe with one another but what YOU can do in the future to prevent infection (and we're not just talking HIV, here) by at, at least, knowing more information than you currently do and putting it to good use.

Good Luck!

[tednlou2]

Welcome to the forums.  I am sorry you tested poz. 

Okay, I am confused by your posts.  You begin the thread saying you may leave him over this.  Then, you say you won't.  Then, you reveal there was a 3rd person, but who was neg.  Of course, you don't know that.  Then, you say there was an "occurrence" with a third, but then said 5 or 6 times.  You said the person was either neg or undetectable.  How would you know this?  It seems like these 3rd guys were more than one person and one occurrence.  This seems like different guys and all bareback.

Am I reading that right?  I don't want to misrepresent what you said, or what you meant.  Why would you automatically jump to your bf sugar-coating things and your infection came from him, when it seems you had many other exposures, which were bareback?  You say you've seen his labs, but I doubt you saw the other guys labs.  You seem to have this notion that AIDS means he was more infectious.  People are usually most infectious, when they are newly infected.  But, it is true that someone with untreated HIV and a CD4 count at the AIDS definition could have their vl soar again.  But, having had an AIDS dx does not mean someone was more a risk, than someone who was never diagnosed with AIDS.  And, you saw his labs, which showed he was UD. 

[zettainaoru]

Im pretty sure its not from your boyfriend. The risk was too low.
Dont blame him OK.

And YES, you can get it from a single exposure with random people that dont know their status.

[Poppy33]

Lesson learned.

[absopozilutely]

Me and him are fine, my first post i was upset about not knowing about him having AIDS, i thought it was a big deal, but other then that, yes this was an occurrence that took place a few times as unprotected intercourse, the 3rd was always either undetectable as well or negative.
Im sorry but it is a little hard to to believe you contracted from someone else only having unprotected sex 3 or 4 times all single occurrences and disregarding that the one your with sexually every other time being HIV+.
Also that was in the beginning of our relationship, i tested negative much after all that, becoming + It was when we where monogamous.

Just for the record I had sex with a guy who lied, twice second time I got it. To me looking back it was never a matter of if I would get it, it was when, because I was stupid and uneducated and naive.

[timmm55]

I dosent really matter anymore who i got it from i guess, it maybe i tested - because of the window of time to show a + result, and in that case did get it from one of those events during a weird stage in our relationship, or i got it from him, either way, I just want him and I to be safe now. So we are going to use protection from now on.

I do hope that i got it from him and our strains are the same, so in case something happens down the road there is no risk towards reinfection of a new strain, and i only say that because i plan to be with him for the rest of my life.
But if our strains our different then that just means we have to be very careful. which is all fine, its just a matter of, if could, i would.

I understand the mistakes i made in all of this, but now its what can i do to prevent any further ones. Of course we are strictly monogamous now so its not others im worried about, its just us now..

I hope it's NOT the same strain. It sounds much like in the Partner's Study, where 4 people did get HIV, but all 4 were from outside the relationship. I've yet to find a proven case of undetectable (<50, 1 year or more) HIV transmission.

25% of the people who say they are HIV- really don't know.

[Tylerwarrenc]

So what does it mean if we have the same strain or HIV?
what is the deference? 

[zettainaoru]

It means there IS such thing as undetectable HIV transmission and that the risk is not 0% (Though the risk is extremely low).
So PEP or condoms need to be use.

hmm... could it be possible that he had viral blips when you have unprotected sex with him. But i think viral load in blip is not that high.

[mecch]

It means there IS such thing as undetectable HIV transmission and that the risk is not 0% (Though the risk is extremely low).
So PEP or condoms need to be use.

hmm... could it be possible that he had viral blips when you have unprotected sex with him. But i think viral load in blip is not that high.

Maybe. Probably.  But by coincidence two people might have the same strain even though one didn't pass that virus to the other.  Right?

[mecch]

If there are clusters of transmission in a small population, I might guess the same strain comes up.  No?
I don't know much about strains. Does science identify millions of different ones like fingerprints, almost?
People who know about criminal transmission might know just how sue one can be that one person definitely caught HIV from another, by exact strain matching.