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Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: bimazek on March 11, 2007, 11:15:20 pm
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sun tanning and HIV
i read this news report today and thought perhaps it can effect hiv replication...
news report today shows that suns rays produce Protein That Triggers Tanning and Protects against Skin Cancer
then i thought about my friends who are long term survivors of HIV and many take moderate sun 30 min on weekends or one hour when they can... they are tan
Researchers find that a protein activated to repair DNA damage also activates tanning, which can protect against melanoma
Scientists have determined that while it fixes damage to DNA caused by UV rays, the protein p53 also controls the mechanism for tanning. A powerful protein known as p53 has long been considered the master regulator of the genome because of its amazing ability to repair damaged DNA. Now scientists at Harvard's Dana-Farber Cancer Institute have discovered that p53 not only mends genetic material but also kicks off the chemical cascade that results in tanning.
The researchers report in Cell that when p53 is activated (in response to DNA damage caused by the sun's ultraviolet (UV) rays and other factors), it triggers production of alpha-MSH, a hormone that then prompts production of melanin, or pigment. Recognizing that p53 is the linchpin of this chain of events could result in a way to "give people tans without needing the sun" (or creams or sprays to artificially color their skin), says senior study author David Fisher, director of Dana-Farber's Cutaneous Oncology and Melanoma Program
so i did a search on google for scholarly articles... on this alpha MSH and HIV
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=alpha-MSH+hiv&btnG=Search
immediately it shows that this alpha-MSH
Anti-tumor necrosis factor and antimicrobial effects of a-MSH suggest that the peptide
might likewise reduce replication of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=alpha-MSH+hiv&btnG=Search
plasma alpha-melanocyte stimulating hormone are associated with reduced disease progression in HIV- … - group of 2 »
L Airaghi, R Capra, G Pravettoni, F Maggiolo, F … - J Lab Clin Med, 1999 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
... hormone (alpha-MSH) are associated with accelerated or reduced disease progression
in patients with HIV infection, plasma concentrations of alpha-MSH and two
Melanocortin peptides inhibit production of proinflammatory cytokines in blood of HIV-infected … - group of 3 »
A Catania, L Garofalo, M Cutuli, A Gringeri, E … - Peptides, 1998 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
... on normal peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC), alpha-MSH (1-13) inhibited
production of IL-1 beta and TNF alpha induced by HIV envelope glycoprotein gp ...
Cited by 20 - Related Articles - Web Search
a-Melanocyte-stimulating hormone peptides inhibit HIV-1 expression in chronically infected … - group of 3 »
W Barcellini, G Colombo, L La Maestra, G Clerici, … - 2000 - Soc Leukocyte Biology
... JL, Macken, CA, Perelson, AS, Wolinsky, SM (1999) Persistence of HIV-1 transcription
in ... and M. BOHM New Insights into the Functions of {alpha}-MSH and Related
Central Neurotranspeptide, Alpha-Melanocyte-Stimulating Hormone (a-MSH) is Upregulated in Patients … - group of 2 »
M Yamaoka-Tojo, T Tojo, T Shioi, T Masuda, T … - Internal Medicine, 2006 - J-STAGE
... associated with re- duced disease progression in HIV-infected patients ... A. Mechanisms
of anti-inflammatory action of the neuroimmunomodulatory peptide alpha-MSH. ..
Antimicrobial amino acid sequences derived from alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone - group of 2 »
AP Catania, JM Lipton - US Patent 6,887,846, 2005 - Google Patents
... Alha-melanocyte stimulating hormone (alpha- MSH) and melanin concentrating hormone
(MCH ... are associated with reduced disease progression in HIV-infected patients
Proopiomelanocortin-derived peptides and cytokines: relations in patients with acquired … - group of 2 »
Catania, L Airaghi, MG Manfredi, MC Vivirito, F … - Clin Immunol Immunopathol, 1993 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
... to have a role in disease progression in HIV-infected patients, it may be that a
potent endogenous modulator of cytokine action such as alpha-MSH is crucial to .
Anti-inflammatory actions of the neuroimmunomodulator alpha-MSH. - group of 3 »
JM Lipton, A Catania - Immunol Today, 1997 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click here to read Anti-inflammatory actions of the neuroimmunomodulator
alpha-MSH. Lipton JM, Catania A. Dept of Physiology, University ...
Cited by 165 - Related Articles - Web Search
ACTH-(1-24) and alpha-MSH antagonize feeding behavior stimulated by kappa opiate agonists.
R Poggioli, AV Vergoni, A Bertolini - Peptides, 1986 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ACTH-(1-24) and alpha-MSH antagonize feeding behavior stimulated by kappa
opiate agonists. Poggioli R, Vergoni AV, Bertolini A. ACTH ...
Cited by 88 - Related Articles - Web Search
Behavioral effects of alpha-MSH and MCH after central administration in the female rat. - group of 3 »
MI Gonzalez, S Vaziri, CA Wilson - Peptides, 1996 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click here to read Behavioral effects of alpha-MSH and MCH after central
administration in the female rat. Gonzalez MI, Vaziri S, Wilson CA. ...
Cited by 61 - Related Articles - Web Search
Antiinflammatory effects of the neuropeptide alpha-MSH in acute, chronic, and systemic inflammation.
JM Lipton, G Ceriani, A Macaluso, D McCoy, K … - Ann NY Acad Sci, 1994 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Antiinflammatory effects of the neuropeptide alpha-MSH in acute, chronic,
and systemic inflammation. Lipton JM, Ceriani G, Macaluso ...
Cited by 60 - Related Articles - Web Search - BL Direct
Central neurogenic antiinflammatory action of alpha-MSH: modulation of peripheral inflammation … - group of 2 »
G Ceriani, A Macaluso, A Catania, JM Lipton - Neuroendocrinology, 1994 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Central neurogenic antiinflammatory action of alpha-MSH: modulation of peripheral
inflammation induced by cytokines and other mediators of inflammation. ...
Cited by 46 - Related Articles - Web Search - BL Direct
Characterisation of ACTH peptides in human skin and their activation of the melanocortin-1 receptor. - group of 2 »
K Wakamatsu, A Graham, D Cook, AJ Thody - Pigment Cell Res, 1997 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
... Alpha-Melanocyte-stimulating hormone (alpha-MSH) is a proopiomelanocortin
(POMC)-derived peptide, which is produced in the pituitary and at other sites ...
Cited by 80 - Related Articles - Web Search - BL Direct
Changes in Hypothalamic Agouti-Related Protein (AGRP), but not alpha-MSH or Pro-Opiomelanocortin … - group of 4 »
JA Harrold, G Williams, PS Widdowson - Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications, 1999 - ingentaconnect.com
IngentaConnect. ...
Cited by 46 - Related Articles - Web Search - BL Direct
alpha-MSH modulates experimental inflammatory bowel disease. - group of 3 »
N Rajora, G Boccoli, A Catania, JM Lipton - Peptides, 1997 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click here to read alpha-MSH modulates experimental inflammatory bowel disease.
Rajora N, Boccoli G, Catania A, Lipton JM. Physiology ...
Cited by 44 - Related Articles - Web Search
MSH peptides are present in mammalian skin. - group of 2 »
AJ Thody, K Ridley, RJ Penny, R Chalmers, C Fisher … - Peptides, 1983 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
... Thody AJ, Ridley K, Penny RJ, Chalmers R, Fisher C, Shuster S. Immunoreactive
alpha-MSH was found in human skin and the skin of numerous other mammals. ...
Cited by 93 - Related Articles - Web Search
4-Norleucine, 7-D-phenylalanine-alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone: a highly potent alpha- … - group of 3 »
TK Sawyer, PJ Sanfilippo, VJ Hruby, MH Engel, CB … - Proc Natl Acad Sci US A, 1980 - pubmedcentral.nih.gov
... Abstract. alpha-Melanocyte-stimulating hormone (alpha-MSH) reversibly darkens frog
skins by stimulating melanosome movement (dispersion) within melanophores. ...
Cited by 62 - Related Articles - Web Search
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i'm not a biologist and have no clue about biology but if the melatonin was an inhibitor then why would black people be infected?
or i'm completely stupid?
And we all know that the virus doesn't like air, that's why we don't get infected by touching someone or coughing, the virus needs to be in warm areas of the body to replicate, why would any skin cell have anything to do with it?
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A suntan, or sunburn, is an immune response. For people with low CD4 counts, it can lead to overall fatigue, fever, flulike symptoms - which subside in a few days, when the tan fades.
For people with normal or healthy levels of a functioning immune system, I see no problem with exposure to the sun.
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but the immune response to sun has completely different proteins involved, i'm not sure why hiv would be involved here or i'm not understanding it?
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For those with seriously compromised immune systems, triggering a general immune response taxes the entire system. Sun poisoning comes to mind, only without the extreme exposure.
The proteins in the specific response ARE different, but the body responds the same, systemically, to a perceived threat.
LIke I said, with a relatively intact immune system, it's absolutely no biggie. For people with low immunity, it can be very painful and debilitating.
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but the immune response to sun has completely different proteins involved, i'm not sure why hiv would be involved here or i'm not understanding it?
Milker
What I think the article is stating as it is mentioned multiple times is reduced disease progression of HIV.
So basically this tanning stimulates the immune system to fight whatever and give an immune response. What that means to you is that its probably no better than taking a vitamin that helps the immune function.
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very interesting. I was very interested in jkinatl2 answer and will study this.
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When I started having several day's worth of fever and fluelike junk every time I went to the tanning bed, I started doing research.
Apparently when someone's T Cells dip below 200, all bets are off insofar as "regular" physiological behavior is concerned.
Syphilis becomes neurosyphilis within months instead of years.
Lifting weights, that minor tear/repair routine, can make a person very sick.
Heretofore suppressed things like HPV and PCP start showing up in their wackiest and most evil incarnations.
Worst part is, you don't have to look like you are knocking on heaven's door to get those things. You can look perfectly healthy, but without an intact immune system, you can't withstand anything of consequence.
Things we relatively healthy-appearing people have to keep in mind (and I am telling myself this as well) is that looks can be deceiving. I have about two dozen T cells right now, but I look pale but healthy. However, if I were idiotic enough to, say, volunteer for a charity that builds houses this weekend, I would be very, very sick for days or weeks after. Probably weeks, since I am recovering from PCP.
We tend to discount the immune system's impact on our daily lives, because it's always there. But when it's not that reliable, seriously, all bets are off.
Again, if someone is on HAART and/or has a robust (or hell, normal) immune system, tanning stimulates that system. Taxing a system dedicated each and every day to coping with/eliminating millions of mutations of HIV pathogen is something we do at our own peril, however.
Like Sushi, it depends on the risk a person is willing to take, and the overall state of their health. And sometimes, the best way to find out those limitations is to give them a try. It took three or four bouts of sun poisoning symptoms (with barely ten minutes' worth of controlled exposure) for me and my doctor to pinpoint the cause, and to realize that I needed my immune system for other things.
Hopefully I will be able to bring my CD4 count back up, and when I am over 200, commence to tanning and weightlifting. Until that happen though, I have battles going on in my body that I am usually not even aware of, night sweats and fatigue notwithstanding.
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I don't know The Science like others here but I do know that sunbathing - despite how relaxing it may seem - does in fact put the body under quite a lot of stress. Whereas some moderate daily exposure to the ol' natural vitamin D is good for most people, overexposure is surely good for no-one. I also know that when the body is being challenged - say from an attack of herpes or the like - it is advised to stay out of the sun. Likewise, overexposure to the sun can also trigger off herpes/shingles attacks. My blood counts are all behaving so far, but if the day comes when they aren't I would definitely reassess how much time I spend bronzing.
I ADORE sunshine but I'm not a sun goddess who likes to fry anymore. My own personal daily dosage is perhaps half an hour early morning and/or half an hour early evening. I avoid being out in the sun between 11am and 3pm as and when I can. And despite having olive skin, I always slap on some Factor 15.
Melia (aka Little Miss Ray of Sunshine) 8)
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My viral load was above 100.000 copies after spending two weeks in the Canary Islands under the sun...
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i used to tan all the time. i worked next door to a tanning salon. on my first visit to my doctor after my diagnosis he asked if i tanned i said yes and he said stop. so i did.
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So that was an interesting conversion but which got me worried !
I live in sunny southern california, i work outside wearing shorts, so i can't avoid sun tanning.. today is about 80 degrees outside full sun, should I be worried and start covering me with lotion?
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I usually slather myself in sunscreen with an SPF high enough to work on the surface of the sun every day during the summer.
It's not so much for health reasons, but vanity. I don't look good with a tan.
But it's nice to know I've been inadvertently doing something right.
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this is interesting, I returned from a sunny, beach filled PR vacation and had labs drawn a week later and my VL was 80,000 from 29,000. Cd4's and % remained constant. Makes one wonder........
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As a two-time survivor of skin cancer, including as recently as a month ago, I would encourage the use of a good SPF number consistently like at least #15. According to my dermatologist and the surgeon, even on cloudy days it's a good precaution to have some on.
I can tell you from experience that surgery for skin cancer is not always the kind of easy op that Laura Bush had recently on her leg, particularly when it's on your face.
A sadder but wiser reformed sunworshipper,
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I would like to get out there in the sun and get a little color on occasion. And I do sometimes. It doesn't take long here in Florida. Too much sun, wears me out.
But !!, there is no way I spend any length of time in the sun without having at least a number 30 sunscreen on me.
I have also had plenty of squamous cell and basal cell carcinoma, and precancerous- removed these past 20 years. an unfortunate lesson to learn from.
Like my dermatologist says " Only use sunscreen on the skin you want to save !!"
Be careful out in the sun...
Ray
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Very interesting personal experiences
Many things i had not thought of,
but very very moderate exposure say fifteen minutes or 20 min on face and chest and back should be ok if a person has 350 or 400 or 500 T cells
i think?
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Hi Bizamek,
I'm a fast tanner, but i'm white right now (bad winter in southern cali, it was 60, which is basically the temperature when california freezes, but today it went up to 85 and after reading this post I stayed outside for I guess a total of 20 minutes in few minutes intervals. I rarely get any sunburn but I get brown skin fast, and i'm not sure what to think. I was thinking about calling my ID tomorrow to ask him about getting sun exposure, usually I turn from aspirin white to puerto rican in 2 weeks, with a 2 hour exposure a day, without burning.
Milker
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Honestly, so long as your T Cells are within normal perameters, your risks seem roughly the same as any other person. Viral load has no bearing in this, thogh I imagine percentage might.
Here are some links which speculate regarding skin cancer and HIV:
http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-06-04-03#S5X
source:
Nguyen P, Vin-Christian K, Ming ME, Berger T.
Aggressive squamous cell carcinomas in persons infected with the human immunodeficiency virus. Arch Dermatol. 2002 Jun;138(6):758-63
[PubMed ID
Most of the info I found was relating to KS to the exclusion of other cancers impacting the skin. However, the study above was not. I was distressed to read that the study said:
<< Human immunodeficiency virus stage and the degree of immunosuppression were not associated with increased morbidity and mortality>>
This was only a single study however, and I have not seen much in the way of outside quantification in repetitive studies.
If it makes you feel bad, obviously stop. If it doesn't, from what I read, you are in the same situation as anyone else with your skin tone and your tanning history.
Interestingly, even spray tanning and lotions which stimulate melatonin artificially can trigger immune responses for those with low CD4 counts.
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I'm not worried about KS but worried about the experiences from people that have tanned and have had their VL rise?
I look so much hotter when i'm tanned !! ::)
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hey me too! Seriously :) - tho I also noticed when I was tanning, that I was starting to wrinkle around the eyes. That effect diminished when I stopped.
I have not seen any science linking moderate/recreational tanning and viral load progression or CD4 depletion. Of course, as you likely know, VL AND CD4 count can vary widely from blood draw to blood draw. Trends over time is the only rational way to determine the stability or direction of overall immune function.
My tanning only started to bother me when my CD4 count went below 150. That was five years ago. And please remember, I am from pasty-faced European stock, who would routinely go from trout-white to lobster red, then peel away back to trout. Tanning beds and self tanning helped a LOT for a long time, and I cannot imagine they would present a danger to anyone without a severely compromised immune system.
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I want to weigh in on this one and put my own experience with overall "mental" health and moderate tanning. Please note: I have no scientific evidence to offer anything other than my own experience. Sitting in the sun for a twenty minute meditation on the warmth of the sun and of how this light is necessary for growth on the most basic level, I'd say it's a good thing for me...on a mental level. From my experience, mental health and physical health are completely and utterly intertwined. Moderation is probably le mot du jour.
The sun makes me feel a little more full of life and excited about the sun-kissed whispers of the summer months ahead.
A little bit of a tan line can be so sexy.
Brooks
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hey milker,
I would not be too concerned about anecdotal evidence from a couple of people of viral load increasing after sun exposure. After spending a month lazing in the sun in Mexico my vl dropped from over 600,000 to <50.
I worship the sun, but limit my sunbaking (the sun is much more harsh here in Aus than in the northern hemisphere, so we refer to it as sunbaking as opposed to sunbathing) to an hour or so in the morning and/or evening, and I always use 15+. It is a good idea to keep out of the sun between 11 and 3 as it is just too harsh.
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I think AmosBoy's post made it. It's all about feeling good. So I will enjoy the sun and tan as I did before, that is no burning and going back home when i feel too warm, and at the same time talk to my ID and look at my VL and go from there :)
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I started tanning in July for a cruise that I took in September. I didn't over do it but I did continue to tan since that time. Obviously from my two sets of labs since starting to tan it hasn't had a significant impact on my CD4 or VL. I do realize there are issues with too much sun exposure and skin problems including cancer. But hey, I've got HIV.... I need something to feel good about. And if tanning makes me feel a bit better about myself and I don't over do it, then I'm probably okay. Like other things in life, I need to weigh the risks.
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For those of us who live with long, grey winters, summer and sunshine are a godsend. We have a fantastic nude beach here, and sitting naked in the sun with a beer in hand makes me fell soooo incredibly good. I've noticed that I dont get that nice, even glow anymore though, its more blotchy and reddish. Maybe its the HIV or age, who knows. I've been using sunscreen but my skin now reacts really badly to some, possibly because of my eczema. Some lotions actually make my hands peel.
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This is a really helpful, interesting thread. I wanted to ask this question before (about tanning beds). My doctor told me to go a few times, cuz of the depressing beige seasonal disorder. But my hypochondia makes me think I feel (s)icky afterwards.
Has anyone has a reaction to tanning lotions. I swear I had a weird rash once after using the stuff and will never use it again...
Drew
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I've left a voicemail to my ID about natural tanning (i live in southern california so tanning beds are not necessary) and waiting for the answer. I didn't think about how creams may be good or bad, so i'm interested in your findings too !