POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Moffie65 on April 04, 2007, 10:50:43 am
-
OK, to those like THunter, and Mike who have brought up an obvious error on my part, I repost the content of the first post so that the conversation can go on. However, my erasure of it the first time, does somewhat confirm a feeling that I have had lately that many of the vocal here are not necessarily in the majority. Some of the statements that were made by some of the posters, make my contributions here seem almost mental in nature, which dosen't encourage one to sit down and contribute much more than a few jokes once in a while. I lack the insight to see why looking at life in a really balanced and constructive way, which was not lost on Tim, and Mike, is any kind of "destructive and negative".. With that said, here is the original post.
Harness Your Own Power.
One of the things that we have to come to a balanced attitude towards is control. It is no secret that many people living with HIV, even with the best treatment available, will not make it to a long life. When we come to this world, many of us are submitted to things and knowledge that are not good for us. Sometimes the source of this information is from our parents. Many times it is from our teachers, or people that are committed to telling us the truth.
Somewhere along the way, we become adults and start to form and polish our own personalities into mature adults that have a place in the world, and try to make the planet a better place for our offspring. Many things can get in the way of our learning, and keep us from progressing along the way of knowledge. In my case, it was an overwhelming dogma from my preacher/missionary father and mother, which was their life, not mine. Mine was to be the best person I could be, given the skills and talents that are a part of my nature.
In our travels in this life, sometimes we don’t ever become challenged to take the step towards our full potential and for whatever reason, become disconnected with the person that we truly are. What does this mean to a person that is HIV+? And does it truly matter. This person thinks definitely so.
Something happened to me in the first few years of infection, and I covered it in my Blog, but I feel it is so terribly important that I wanted to share it here. Within the first six months of my infection, I came to a place of severe doubts and a total feeling of abject loss. I decided to try something that I had only heard of in passing, but never really given it much thought, as up to this time, my life was relatively fun and full of wonder and challenge. It was a particularly bad day at work, and so I left early as my work for the day was finished. I entered the house, filled a Rosenthal stem glass of wine, placed a dressing mirror on the floor, disrobed, lit some candles and incense, and sat cross legged in front of the mirror, and looked deeply into my eyes. WOW! What a shock! This was the first time in my 36 years that I had actually focused on the green eyes that I offered up to total strangers and friends every day of my life. Yes, it is true, the eyes are the windows of the soul, and to not allow yourself to experience this view means you are truly missing out. I spoke out loud and had a conversation with myself. It was scary and I didn’t necessarily enjoy it right away, but it gave me that open and honest therapist that I had always wanted. Remember, lying to the world is not something that is strange to mankind due to a habitual tendency towards lying. To lie to ones self, while looking into your own eyes is possible, but never believable, because in our hearts we know our own truth.
So with the ground rules set, I was able through about six of these sessions, to come to a place of familiarity with my life, and a whole different appreciation of things real. I finally realized that I was my own best Therapist, and many of the answers I sought about the reason for my existence and my reasons for being spared the certain death that most were experiencing at the time, were within my own grasp, and only had to take them to heart.
There are many of you who are not aware of my penchant for sharing my “secrets” of survival and thriving. I found that with my upbringing, I had accumulated a number of life mantras which were not of my own discovery, but came from people and teachers in my life along the way. Then and there I decided to take control of my life, and do the things that I wanted to do, rather than doing things the way other people’s expectations had dictated all my life. I created new and relevant mantras, ones that would work in my new life. I started at that time to place judgment in the hands of a higher power, as I soon learned that judging our fellow man, assumes their problems and responsibilities.
This last point needs further explanation. You see, when we see the way others are living their lives, and we place them under the magnifying glass for judging, we then assume some of the responsibility of their road, and whether or not they are doing it right. If we leave well enough alone, and let the other party make what we might think are mistakes and decisions fit for their road, then we are not assuming responsibility for their lives and their life path. When a person asks for our input, and we share what worked for us, then that is different. When someone is forcing their dogma on us, and we show them our way, or ignore them altogether, then we are not taking on their karma, just ratifying our own.
What this gave me was a very good idea of what was needed to stay alive at any given time in my infection. When I became incapacitated with PCP, twice, I never had any question about my survival, even though the medical staff sent me home to die. Through sheer will and the help of some very special people, I was able to come around, and have enjoyed a bumpy and full 12 years since that time. We need strength, cunning, wisdom, knowledge, and an honest familiarity with our own lives and souls before we can be capable of thriving with HIV, rather than just existing. Remember, you were designed to contain only the power that was created especially for you, don’t squander it on anybody but yourself.
Class dismissed. The views and experiences here are my own, and there is absolutely no scientific, psychosocial, or any other type of professional stamp of approval placed on the above experiences. This is also not meant to take the place of professional therapists, as I have once or twice used them also. This exercise worked for me, and it can work for anyone willing to take the initiative to make it happen.
Thank you for reading, and Peace, and Love to all.
Love,
-
Thank you Moffie, I'll be giving that some thought.
-
Moffie quit telling us that we won't be making it to a long life. I'm sick, sick, sick of it. We can all agree that some people will not have a long life regardless of HIV. But so many of your posts are laced with death. Just starting your post with death makes me not want to read it, even though you do have some intelligent things to say sometimes.
It is not what I need to hear right now, because death does scare me. There I said it. I am afraid of dying, regardless of my cheerful disposition. :D :D :D
rob
-
"It is no secret that many people living with HIV, even with the best treatment available, will not make it to a long life."
Rob,
I find it very curious that in the above 1075 words, you found only these to bring out of the text. This is very telling about where you are. This complaint, and command to stop telling the obvious truth will somehow soften your reality. I am so very sorry that it is so important to you to accentuate the real and obvious reality that you seem to be ignoring, and that is simply that this is a world wide site, and this pandemic is global. It is foolishness of the first order to state that globally EVERYONE on the planet has the same access to treatment and modern medicine that you obviously appreciate. Please stop telling me what to say, as after this many years with the bug, and this many years on the planet, I don't have any rose coloured glasses; I threw them away about 25 years ago.
If you feel my posts are too negative, please pass them up. I will not be sad if you do.
Love,
-
Telling other people not to give input is giving input. I think that people want to be heard here, and yes we sometimes need words of encouragement to climb Mount AIDS. I respect that you came close to death, so did I. I would not be alive without treatment. I realize that you have been through a lot. I just think that people need encouragement and that is why they come here. We are not all in the let the chips fall where they may mode when it comes to this disease. Being ornary gets us farther than being at peace with some cosmic power that does not exist, sorry I have never bought in to that. I wish I could.
rob
-
I realize that I am very lucky to have treatment. But are you some sort of cyber Dr. Kevorkian to tell people you are going to die so just get over it? I appreciate your cosmic ranting sometimes because it is beautiful in its own right, and sometimes I am in the mood for it. But dammit, your fixation on death and raining on everyone's parade get to be a bit much after a while. I am going to die I get it. But it won't be of AIDS, and it is my right to delude myself into that. Plenty of people here believe in the biggest delusion of all, GOD, or the cosmic forces, or Miss Cleo or whatever. You put your faith in crystals, and magical thinking. I put my faith in science. I do believe something better is coming down the line and its not death, not yet, not for me, not for many on this site. We have enough with the reality of the disease without you reminding us of impending doom, our resident Debbie Downer wawaing every bit of hope away. That kinda sucks and not in a good way.
rob
-
Telling other people not to give input is giving input. I think that people want to be heard here, and yes we sometimes need words of encouragement to climb Mount AIDS. I respect that you came close to death, so did I. I would not be alive without treatment. I realize that you have been through a lot. I just think that people need encouragement and that is why they come here. We are not all in the let the chips fall where they may mode when it comes to this disease. Being ornary gets us farther than being at peace with some cosmic power that does not exist, sorry I have never bought in to that. I wish I could.
rob
Hey Ms. Koi, don't let things get to you. Mr. Moffie perhaps is going through a very difficult moment right now or has been for a while and feels he can come here to vent. Some people vent more than others and it's sad to constantly have to be reminded that we are heading towards the grave faster than we may have anticipated. Don't let negativity get to you, breathe in and out, when you read a sad thread that may affect you just know that not everyone experiences AIDS the same way. I've talked to a guy from this site who lost his loved one, had KS and has been through many challenges and still keeps a positive outlook on life and wants to live and then there are people who simply focus on the negative aspect. If it affects you too much, don't read Moffie's threads no more, and I am not defending Moffie, I simply care about you too much to have to read things that can alter your state of mind.
Al
-
Hey Moffie
Thanks very much for the post. I know from when we contributed to Rev's post about death that we don't have very similar views about life beyond death - words like karma, mantra and power mean very little to me. I wish that they did - my cold, scientific, rational atheism makes me feel quite lonely a lot of the time. It definitely makes the world feel a lot harder. I was very aware of the proximity of tonnes of unyielding metal thundering next to me as I cycled through the city today. I am somebody who, lying alone in the dark, will feel the certainty of my own death and feel a moment of panic.
I remember when I was small I used to believe quite strongly in God. I was never Christened, but used to talk to him and think that he was sending me messages about how my day was going to be in the number of blue vs red cars my school bus would pass on the way into the rural town where I was educated. Psychiatrists/therapists call this "magical thinking" - the idea that the universe/God is communicating with us, and know what we're thinking. I still do it - from when I play the lottery to when I caught HIV (applying a moral judgement to a biological process). So maybe I'm not so coldly rational after all. Maybe I could do with a bit more rational thinking when it comes to protecting my health, and a bit less when it comes to issues of being ill, and dying.
I remember reading the description of you looking at yourself in the mirror in your blog. I have read something similar in several self-help books. I'm somebody who looks in the mirror to shave, and that's it! A caustic acquaintance once said that my eyes only "save my face from mediocrity". I love my eyes - they're one thing I would never change and I sincerely hope they're the windows to my soul. I understand the message you're sending though - the need to look inside both literally and metaphorically. That the journey inwards is the most profound in life and that satisfaction comes from knowing what's true for you.
The other thing you said that rang true with me is that "judging our fellow man assumes their problems and responsibilities". I think you meant "assumes" in the dual sense of "taking part of the responsibility onto ourselves" and "roughly guessing". I certainly see a lot of the latter in medicine. I remember being part of a procedure on an alcoholic. We were trying to tie veins off at the bottoms of her oesophagus that were bleeding profusely - she was coughing up a lot of blood. The doctor doing the procedure started mocking her alcoholism "we'll get you right Teresa, just one more pint, eh?". It's a mindset common in the profession - this person drinks, that person smokes. They deserve it. Who are we to judge their lives and their problems?
Whenever I see stuff like this I go back to something I read in a book about how to consult well in medicine. I think it works well in life generally. Think of your life as a line. And the other person's life as a life. Now at this point in both your lives your lines intersect. Just a moment (although I suppose it could be months or years). What are you going to do to enable both you and that other person to get the most out of that brief time you spend together?
Thanks for thinking of me when you posted this.
Matt.
-
Well said, Al and Matty Mee,
I do appreciate Moffie, and his point of view. However, I understand that Moffie is seeing this disease through a different lens than those newly diagnosed. People who have had the incredible wear and tear of the earlier drug treatments were and are pioneers in this pandemic. They carry the battle scars from these treatments, and they were in fact human guinea pigs. I am deeply grateful to those who paved the road for others to follow. However, once again, I don't think that the people who have not been subjected to these earlier treatments are going to have the same experience as those infected earlier in the pandemic.
I think what makes me a little uneasy with some of Moffie's posts and perspective is that I sense a little of the "I suffered goddammit, and so will you, so don't even think you aren't going to suffer as much as I have Missy......"
I could be wrong here. Even if Moffie is completely correct, and the newbies will suffer horribly, why take away their moment of hope now? Perhaps this hope is what is going to carry them through to the next treatment breakthrough..
This is a bad disease, but things have gotten light years better. I have seen the meds bring people back to life, literally transformed before my eyes. I know people who have minimal side effects. I see hope.
In the end we are all going to die. We may die from disease or that proverbial bus, but I don't want to lose the joy of my joyful moments, for that fact.
-
Contrary to most of the ruckus this thread has inspired, I found this to be one of Moffie's most life affirming posts.
I see a thread about working toward greater self-awareness and creating one's own mantras for personal empowerment.
I see phrases like "thriving with HIV, not just existing".
I do see that line about some people, even with the best treatments available, will not see a long life due to this virus. I can't see that statement being argued very far, though. And we don't even have to look to far away countries for that. Anyone heard from TnBoy in the past few days? Lis has a current thread that comes to mind.
There seems to be a great deal of talk delusions and magical thinking. I took what I read here to be about the exact opposite- naked (literally) self-observation and working to strip away self-delusions.
-
Gee Moffie,
When you edit your entire post, you compromise every post that flows from it. I remember Thunter getting very upset when people do this. It does change the content of the entire thread.
I think we should leave what we say up here, so that we do not compromise what others say in reaction to our thread.
-
Argh! >:(
Koi's right on that one. That does burn my burger.
Everything I just spent time talking about just went out the proverbial window.
I need to work up a new mantra to deal with that...
-
Moffie,
I agree with your NEW EDITED CHANGED REVISED post. I think there is a lot of denial here. Some of the denial pertains to the denial of the fact that some people may not have the same degree of suffering thanks to the advances in medical treatments. Some people will be more fortunate than others.
There is a saying in the ghetto "Don't be a dream killer!". As a grad student I I worked with a young woman from Compton who wrote an essay with this title. The point of the essay was basically that no one should ever rob another person of his or her hopes and dreams, based on ones own bad experience.
The important message is that hope is a powerful thing, and that taking hope away from another individual is unkind, and often damaging.
I would think that one who has suffered greatly would want to let others have as many hopeful days and moments as possible. Don't be a hater, don't be a dream killer. Okaaaaaaay.
This does not diminish the value of your contributions and experience. I have gained much from reading your threads.
-
"That does burn my burger."
I don't want to burn anyone's burger, but I wouldn't mind heating a few hotdogs !
;)
-
"That does burn my burger."
I don't want to burn anyone's burger, but I wouldn't mind heating a few hotdogs !
;)
I'll bring the wiener if you bring the buns.
-
I'll bring the wiener if you bring the buns.
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D
-
Huh? What happened to all the beautiful writing I read earlier? It was very nicely done.
I thought this forum was all about OPINIONS and POINTS OF VIEW? Not everyone is gonna agree with everything posted by everyone else.
Well...........I took fancy to the MANTRA thoughts you wrote, Moffie. Especially the idea that we give up our "auto pilot" mantras--which should be reviewed for more updated ones that fit our current life. Good medicine.
xxx,
Mike
-
Huh? What happened to all the beautiful writing I read earlier? It was very nicely done.
I thought this forum was all about OPINIONS and POINTS OF VIEW? Not everyone is gonna agree with everything posted by everyone else.
Well...........I took fancy to the MANTRA thoughts you wrote, Moffie. Especially the idea that we give up our "auto pilot" mantras--which should be reviewed for more updated ones that fit our current life. Good medicine.
xxx,
Mike
Agreed. And it's a real shame when someone allows dissent to lead to the erasing of the original thoughts. Who loses in that scenario? Not the dissenters. It's the ones who DID get something from the original thoughts...and others who might later, but won't now since they are gone. It seems to me that allows the "other side" to win out ultimately.
-
T hunter, my point of view is not about winning. I just think that not all of us want to be reminded constantly that this disease could turn around and kill us. We know that all too well. That's all. Remember that this site is primarily about comfort and hope, at least that is what I thought it was for.
I notice that you keep jumping in everytime there is a disagreement. It seems to me that you will always be there to condtradict me, no matter what I say.
Potaaaato
rob
-
Well....shall we take this post the way of the other posts where the original one was deleted?
I'll start....
Pink car tires are cool but only on the beach after the Maury show proves I'm not the father of that chicken sandwich!
Please disregard cause Moffie ROCKS for putting it back. Well written whether or not some disagree with what is said! BRAVO Moffie!
-
Rob,
Wasn't really meaning this particular thread so much as just in general. Whether or not the "winning" is a goal, I think there are definite "losers" when posts get heavily revamped or erased. And the losers? All of us...the now and future readers of whatever thread it happens in. I'm basically just agreeing with what you said above about how it compromises the whole thread- the original idea and the responses to it. (As you know, that's a personal peeve of mine!)
Me
Edited to say: You are entirely too defensive. And for the record: It's poe - TAH - toe.
-
Thanks for the spelling lesson. I was having a Dan Quail moment.
:D
-
Dear All,
I'm VERY glad Moffie has re-posted his original entry. I encourage members to stand by what they have to say. Y'all just have to know sometimes you're going to get hurrahs and sometimes a razzberry response. Or indifference. That's just how it goes.
Also, I urge you all to speak for yourself and to avoid terms which imply you are speaking for others. Just say what is true for you. I get wary when someone uses terms like "many others feel this way" or "others who are afraid to speak up" and such.
Using that kind of expression is as Jonathan might say, "not scientific or quantifiable." But I do know it almost always leads to flames lighting up.
Cheers,
-
Moffie don't forget to leave the part where you tell us that we are all in denial.
If you are going to repost it, do it right. Just for the record. I thank you for restoring the thread. And yes I don't have to agree with you, and we both might look at that as a good thing.
rob
-
Tim,
I appreciated your post very much. Seeing the truth of one's self in the mirror can be difficult. Seeing the truth of one's reality can be difficult too.
Your post touched my heart today. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Christine
-
I still find it odd Rob, that out of 1075 words, only one sentence sent you over the top. This is your problem, not mine, and I will accept no responsibility for it.
Love,
-
Christine, and all who read this as a life affirming post, thank you very much. You all got the true meaning of me taking the time to write this.
Life is positive if we make it that way and for those in the group here who have expessed real and valid concerns with accepting their own mortality and their true place in life; (ie. now host of a deadly virus) I hope nothing more than an inner peace for all of you.
Like Matt said above, I learned this exercise from a Professor from UCLA, and it is not my own, but I told it as my own story, simply becasuse I am not qualified to speak for a Professor.
-
$50 says the back and forth on this thread ain't over.
Who's in?
-
K, there is a fine line between noting an absence of some lines above and using it as an opportunity to slap Moffie.
Also, it would be much less likely to start a flamer if you simply say how you FEEL when it seems you are being told you are living in denial rather than launching some scuds about it.
Saying how you feel whether it be offended or upset or misunderstood or whatever you feel becomes much clearer. And meaningful. And doesn't make the other person wrong. It just says where you're at and it may make the other writer realize something implicit in their remarks which possibly was not intended. (Or maybe it was but it's a much less combustible way of letting them know you think they're an a*****e, even if that's really what you'd like to say).
It seems to me that giving the kind of response I'm suggesting is much more likely to create an opening for a dialogue to continue rather than quickly degenerating into something which prompts a common response I have lately seen in other threads: Here we go again!
As you have accuratel expressed, you guys don't have to agree. I think it's also possible to disagree with getting nasty or flaming.
Thanks for your cooperation as well as from others.
-
It is not that one sentence, it is many of your other posts which are a bit on the negative side. And you are right, I should skip over them. I know I should not worry about any newbies reading them because it is fruitless. If you are going to hand out advise to people on how to let the cosmic powers guide them in their quest to enlightenment, and death is okay because it is the natural order of things, you will always get a comment or two from me. Many people including me appreciate some your posts. I was just as I said not in the mood to get one more reminder of how AIDS will kill me regardless of modern science.
rob
-
As someone who is HIV negative but very much touched by HIV I appreciate Moffie and his words. It gives me insight on what might happen and what he has been through. Maybe reading what Moffie has to say will in some way help me to help hubby in the future. I want to be prepared to what "might" happen in the future, but that doesnt mean that I live in fear waiting for it to happen. I just want to be the best I can be in helping hubby deal with all this now and in the future.
Hugs
Teresa
-
Yes Andy,
I realize that. I will take note.
Thanks, I think I did express what bothered me.
I will leave names out of it. I only mentioned the omitted part because I thought it was relevant. It is the "standing by what you say" idea that you brought up in the post before.
rob
-
I think I am going to go see Stuart Saves His Family. Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and some people like me god dam it!
-
Gee whiz, I came to this sight to look up info on Fuzeon needless injection-Bioject 2000 after fighting with Michigan ADAPT over getting denied re-up due to 100% LIS for Med D, (thankfully I got an extension for the month to 'work out the issue'), only to find that the new mail order pharmacy I am forced to use via MI ADAPT due to using Fuzeon to find that they never enrolled me, dealing with these unforeseen bumps in the road caused me to be late for my DR appoint.(my doc, allot like DR. House character, was not excited), come home back to phone said pharmacy about moving forward w/ Bioject, that I informed them 3 weeks ago was going to happen and was informed then 'we will have it to send when Dr says go, only to find we haven't ordered any, your our first so we have to order it....gee, the staff at my former, local pharmacy where prepaired, information I needed, and had educated themselves..(government knows best, ha ha, so much for 'specialty pharmacies', a specialist doesn't say 'that new fuzeon'..)
I see this thread and want to see what it might offer, maybe a new way for me to pull my hair out, and what to my wondering eye's should appear, something resembling a state committee member after meeting, meeting.
Thankfully, being HIV+ since 1986, AIDS 1987, I didn't run the other direction. Maybe being one of the ginnie pigs for so long, the countless hours in hospital beds, hearing my family being told it's time to contact the rest of the family that wants to see him alive 5 or 6 times, internal shingles, the sole survivor of my first HIV/AIDS Support Family, did something to me that made me stay.
But then I wonder how that new person, along, scared, confussed, on the verge of giving up making his/her first and only attempt to reach out for help would do, did do? What is being interpreted? Did people think before they typed?
I learned years ago that everyone's opinion has it's own value, for them and those they share it with. Often I have not agreed with others views, but was able to take something from it and learn, in some cases apply it to myself, at least take another look at my own.
Like it or not, we are in this together, each fighting our own battles. If one person says something that helps just 1 person through a battle, then we all win! When we fight each others methods, we all loose and with the current state of things, we are loosing allot of ground that countless friends, family, and strangers went to their grave fighting for so WE could continue to live!!
One thing I am glad of, we're not going to multiply funerals a week like before, but ask yourself this, do we want to start all over again?
Peace Health and love,
Ody
-
I think what makes me a little uneasy with some of Moffie's posts and perspective is that I sense a little of the "I suffered goddammit, and so will you, so don't even think you aren't going to suffer as much as I have Missy......"
Amen.
Plenty of other great insights too...
Mike :)
(who exercised his right to express his opinion and is not wasting any more time on the same old same old which will end up going nowhere and only piss people off in the end)
-
Nice job Moffie. You inadvertently recruited a new guy to the board! Welcome Ody!
-
LOL, K. You have a good time with Stuart and his family.
-
LOL, K. You have a good time with Stuart and his family.
Well, I am not a therapist, but I am a member of several 12 step groups...
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-
Nice job Moffie. You inadvertently recruited a new guy to the board! Welcome Ody!
Thanks for the welcome! It was nice to see Moffie's orginal posting had been re-placed when I came back! After reading it, well, all I can say is I was also exposed to the 'man in the mirror' technique so many moons ago...guess what, it works! Maybe you don't turn your life over to a higher power, but you find a very interesting person...
Now when I look in the mirror I see my best friend, supporter, fan, motivator, and yes, worst enemy. I have grown to listen to that person starring back, he's an uneducated-educated nut that tells me I am my own wind beneth my wings and everything is just as it should be and questions me, 'How do you give up? I don't know how, do you?"
Odd as it will seem, that guy one day told me to start talking to mr virus....
Maybe it's just the times we come from, the 'cash in your life insurance policy and enjoy it while you have the chance cause you got about 2 years to live'....my watch must have stoped or I fell in a black hole cause 21 years later that 2 years has yet to end...
hmmm...I need some windex, those lip prints are distorting the view! :-* :D ::)
Peace health and love,
Ody
-
After re-reading this thread, I have observed that far more negativity is eminating from Scotttt who stated "I think what makes me a little uneasy with some of Moffie's posts and perspective is that I sense a little of the "I suffered goddammit, and so will you, so don't even think you aren't going to suffer as much as I have Missy......" And of course Strong Guy/Mike, who stalks my threads like a desert Turkey Vulture, affirming this statement, shows me that there is far more negative mud slinging coming from the balcony than from the speaker in the first place.
Wow, if that statement is even partially true, I have failed in my use of english and my assumptions that the experiences of any of us from the past really have any significance anymore. In one sentence, they build, and in the next, destroy with the surety of a death ray, and what is worse, there is not one iota of thought to the effects of those insinuations. It must seem like I am a pillar of strength for people to attack with such cruelty and blatant hatred. Wow, I sure hope none of you are ever in a place to help somone in a real lifethreatening position with this bug.
Wow, just wow!!!!
Ody, thanks for your observations and also welcome to this place. You have obviously found that some people have bought and paid for the line of the President and his Pharma supporters that this is no longer a disease that will kill you, but merely inconvenience you in your future life, MAYBE... I just hope it works out for everyone when He finds all this money in ADAP that could so very welll be used in Iraq, with his quest for that black gold.
Well, I guess that is all that can and should be said from this contributor.
-
Moffie,
I didn't attack you, I merely addressed what I perceive as a running theme throughout your posts. I just made an observation.
You however just attacked me.
It cracks me up how people will personally attack others in protest of "personal attacks".
Scott
-
Huh?
Well as a matter a fact I was there for someone dear to me in his moment of need who did eventually die. He was a member of my family, who would have made it had HAARt been around. So I am no stranger to death and its consequences. I just try not to dwell on it. I think we are being dramatic. I thought the situation was diffused by Andy. I guess not.
rob
-
hmmm...I need some windex, those lip prints are distorting the view! :-* :D ::)
Peace health and love,
Ody
HOLY SHIT! The new guy is FUNNY!
-
HOLY SHIT! The new guy is FUNNY!
I agree, that was hilarious!
-
I'm glad that Moffie replaced his original post. I first read this thread without Moffie's original post,
so I could read only the replies and follow-ups. Based on those, I would have assumed his post
was all about his view that many HIV+ now mistakenly believe that HIV is a "manageable" disease
and have an expectation that they can live a long llife. Those arguments have certainly been
hashed out in other threads before.
After reading the original post, however, I would never have guessed that it was more about
far more self-discovery and taking control of one's own life. I believe this is important for
everyone, including / especially folks who are HIV+ (or face other significant challenges in
their lives).
I am glad Moffie shared his experience of what has worked for him, and what he has
learned. I myself have been spent years of time and effort trying to understand myself and
what will make me thrive, not just exist. Unfortunately, the answers and understanding
I seek have eluded me thus far.
One comment of Moffie's that I take exception with is the following:
This exercise worked for me, and it can work for anyone willing to take the initiative to make it happen.
The comment seems to suggest that anyone who hasn't had success with this exercise just isn't putting in enough initiative. But I'm not sure there is a one-size-fits-all approach to self-discovery and understanding -- people learn in different ways.
Regarding all the disagreement and "attacks" that this thread has generated, I am rarely surprised
when this happens. Whenever someone posts to these forums, there is always the potential for
differing points of view and conflicts -- sometimes when we expect it, and sometimes when we
do not expect it. It seems inevitable with such a wide variety of people participating.
Regards,
Henry
-
HEY! LISTEN UP!
Scott, Moffie, et al. CUT IT OUT!
Stop trying to score just one last point against each other that is suddenly going to make it clear what an insensitive jerk the other guy is. Each of you has gotten some support from other members. Stop trying to get a 100% approval rating.
Leave it alone!
If you feel you have been attacked, report it to the moderators. Do not indulge in yet another one more one here. It does not clarify anything. It just perpetuates the cycle.
I'm not locking this thread yet, but I'm getting close. Damn! I just don't like to give in and do that.
A comment like Buckmark's gives me hope that someone can express a diverse opinions and responses without matters degenerating.
-
Thanks for the post, Henry! That was pretty much my experience with this thread. That's part of what suprised me about the ensuing ruckus- this is one of the most uplifting posts I've seen from Moffie.
I'll leave it at that...before I succumb to my urge to make a comment about Henry and a Harness.
Oooops..Said too much. Gotta go.
-
Damn, I wish my computer at home was working.
Tim, I remember when you discussed your getting to know yourself sometime back, on the old forums I think.
Anyway, works as well now as it did then.
I did this last weekend. It was then I noticed the hump. I knew it hurt, but I'd never been in a position to see it before.
OK, no neckties for me. Maybe I'll start a fashion trend with sailor's scarves.
Reality is what it is. But, as you said - and much more eloquently - it is what you do with it that counts.
HUGS,
Mark
-
Henry,
"The comment seems to suggest that anyone who hasn't had success with this exercise just isn't putting in enough initiative. But I'm not sure there is a one-size-fits-all approach to self-discovery and understanding -- people learn in different ways. "
Guilty....
I work my ass off to not obfuscate, but this time, I f**ked up. I really didn't want to imply that it works for everyone, but I did mean that many don't have the muster to actually do it. Some have even confessed as much here.
Mark, glad this worked for you. I see it also works for others. Hopefully the hump will now diminish with the obsolesence of Kaletra with Olestra. Damn, I wish they would have told me, I wouldn't have even started that shit, because the Olestra is far more damaging than the bug I fear.
Andy, thank you, but who is going to tell my side and how these comments make me feel, if not me. Face it, mean is mean, that is simply the way I see it. Gee, I was reading them as though these people were in my living room, and saying them in front of me and my partner. If he heard people talk like this about me in front of him, he would throw them to the curb where they would become target practice for the Harley Biker neighbor who disdains hateful speech.
Just sayin...
Lock if you must, but I'll be checking out for the day, so I will not be contributing anymore to this discussion.
Gone.
-
Moffie, you're right, mean is mean.
And we're not sitting in a living room. Face to face can sometimes prevent the kind of misunderstandings that occur here. Also, saying what your partner would do to people for their comments here is taking/making another op to slam at someone. Stop! No more, please.
Hit me over the head for this, but I am going to say this to you, and in fact to everyone here.
That awesome effort you put into getting on with your life in spite of all the challenges to your health and otherwise, I'm asking you to put some part of that into NOT HOLDING ON TO AND NURSING grudges and insults, real or perceived.
Don't make me start doing more than warning here. But this stuff really has to stop.
-
I don't find the arguing between Moffie and those who agree differently constructive. Especially editing the original post, if the author of the thread is going to edit the thread. Scott/Koi if you feel like Moffie is a negative person then ignore him. He is entitled to say how miserable he feels the same way we are entitled to say how well we are doing on meds at the moment and how we are moving on with our lives. Arguing with someone who obviously feels like this is a death sentence and we are all going to suffer miserably will lead to nothing constructive. I only read what is beneficial to me, and this thread wasn't so next time I see a Moffie thread I will think twice about reading.
-
Thanks for the post, Moffie.
It reminded me of when I first found this site and first started posting. I don't know if you recall, but I was all over the shop, not really knowing what to think or which way to turn. My new reality resulted in humilation and anger with myself, knowing what I know and having seen what I'd seen.
I was lucky enough to have an employer that allowed me to take 3 months 'recreation' leave to get my head around things. I was also fortunate enough to have the funds and ability to use that time travelling and spending the time getting to know me again, to be introspective. It was quite a journey, and for those that may remember, it culminated in a candlelit night at home in the bedroom with just me, myself, I and the mirror. A long discussion ensued that resulted in me formally seeking and receiving forgiveness from myself. Then ensued my self proclaimed year of self-respect, where I took back control over little Steve and achieved a certain amount of contentment with me and my life.
We each have our own reality. I thank you for sharing yours.
-
The difference between someone living with hiv/aids and someone dying with it can be vanishingly small sometimes.
You can be on one side today and the other tomorrow.
-
Wow - this thread really took off!
There seems to be a great deal of talk delusions and magical thinking. I took what I read here to be about the exact opposite- naked (literally) self-observation and working to strip away self-delusions.
This isn't what I meant when I wrote about magical thinking - I wasn't equating it to delusions, or a psychiatric condition. It's part of the normal spectrum of human thought, and I mentioned it to point up the contradictions inside ME - how in some circumstances I can be cold, scientific, rational and in others I can see a connection with the Universe, and wishing those circumstances were reversed (death rather than lottery!).
As for the rest, I guess when I come in here there's some part of me that subconsciously looks for the stuff I need. I mean I read everything, but I find myself stopping to read more closely something which fits my outlook that minute, that hour, or that day - sometimes that's Moffie, sometimes it's MtD, sometimes it's Thunter, sometimes it's Rob.... you get the idea.
As a newbie, I would really hate for people to have to edit what they say because it provoked a discussion. Plus it makes everybody who posts subsequently look a bit mad. I found Moffie's post really insightful, and I could definitely find parallels in my own life w/o necessarily buying into his entire world view. Take what you need and leave the rest!
As for suffering. People do in all kinds of different ways. Nobody wants to do it. So I don't see any kind of martyrdom in what Moffie writes - just another human experience. I'm glad he shared it... It doesn't make me feel as though my pain is any less valid, just because I've yet to crap myself on public transport (which seems to have been the bar on previous threads!).
All the best,
M.
-
Thanks for reposting the original post Tim.
First off, apologies for my delay in responding to your threads; I've been in recovery mode these last few days, following my recent travels. Took it out of me more than I care to admit...totally worth it though!
I am posting this in both your threads as:
a) It is relevant to both topics and b) I’m a slow typist and I just had the heads up that this one may be locked by the time I actually get finished!
I, for one, spent most of my adult life afraid of anything to do with death: the great unknown. I refused to attend funerals, refused to discuss my parents’ will-wishes and refused to even contemplate the mere concept.
Being diagnosed with hiv did nothing to alleviate my fears. In fact, my diagnosis pretty much sent me into a frenzy, as far as having my own mortality thrust in my face goes! Well, for the first 2 or 3 years anyhow…
I bounced around (like a fart in a jar, as you like to put it, Tim :)) for a long time after first being diagnosed, ricocheting from one state of mind to another. I spent some time overly positive to the point where I was bordering on being manic. I spent some time completely lost and wallowing in a state of depression. I also spent some time paddling (just ankle-deep) in de Nial, wanting to believe that hiv didn’t cause aids and wanting to find a herbal or nutritional cure. Thankfully, that phase didn’t last too long. But it served a purpose, as most experiences indeed do.
Now, over four years into my diagnosis, I am more comfortable in my own skin than I have ever been in my entire life. I finally like myself; I like myself a lot. In fact, would go as far as to say I have quite a lot of a love thing going on with myself nowadays. Which can only be a good thing surely. ;)
I have learnt/am learning how to accept hiv as an intricate part of who I am. At the same time, recognising that hiv does not define who I am. And I have learnt/am learning that there really is nothing to fear in this life except for fear itself. Moreover, I am more at peace with the certainty of my own mortality and that of my loved ones. I can say in all honesty now that the prospect of death - of me or my loved ones - no longer scares me.
I have now discussed my parents' wills with them. I have also discussed/even shared giggles about some ideas about my own funeral wishes with my dad and friends, though am yet to put it in writing. And I am slowly compiling a will (of sorts), well more of a list of 'who gets what' in the event of any premature departure by me. Such matters are no longer morbid or scary to me, just pragmatic and realistic. Saying that though, I still remain icky about funerals and have a rule that I'll only attend funerals of people I love. And my own of course (though I will do what I can to be late for that, or better yet, not turn up at all! :D).
I totally get Tim when he talks about harnessing our own power. Fear disables us. Fear is disempowering. Letting go of fear is the first step towards self-empowerment.
Being realistic is another important step. Hope and optimism are essential too.
At 35 years old, it has taken me a long while to realise that fear sucks power from humans like an invisible and almost undetectable force. I have suspected it as such for many years, but only totally grasped that notion merely a few months ago.
My participation here on Aidsmeds (after joining 18 months ago) started helping me realise it, along with my personal experience of living with hiv. Not to mention the eternal love and support from my family and friends plus an intensive but effective course of cognitive behaviour therapy have all contributed to me now living a fulfilling and pretty much fearless life.
Tim, people like you have helped to shape my perspective on hiv/aids. You have helped me make the role it plays in my life real. You have also helped me open my eyes to the world of hiv/aids, and the reality of that world, not just my own reality.
I thank you for this frank and heartfelt thread. I also thank you for the hand of friendship you have extended to me during my time here so far on Aidsmeds. It is a hand I would indeed be honoured to shake one day. And if that day should never come, I want you to know that you are on my list of Folk I Would Like To Meet, even if I never actually get to meet you.
Mr Moffie, I salute you.
Always with respect and admiration
Melia
-
Matt,
I was actually referencing post #5 when I said that about talk of magical thinking. I was just saying that I didn't see this post from Moffie as being much about any kind of spiritual delusion...more a suggestion for an exercise in self-discovery.
Just FYI. And great post, btw.
And I bow once again at the feet of Miss Melia. Well said.