POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: possibleexposure on October 05, 2007, 06:33:03 pm
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Hello everyone,
I'm sitting here looking at a presciption for 30 a thrity day supply of Altripla in my hand. The reason I have this is because my doctor believes I may have been exposed to HIV last night due to some unprotected sex.
It all started last night when I met this guy at this bar who claimed to be in the porn business. On the way home he stated that he was HIV negative. But who the hell knows if this was true. We went back to his hotel and began doing the usual vanilla stuff (me sucking him and vice versa) and some intense frottage ( I don't know if i spelled that right). I had a couple of drinks so I was still a little bit tipsy. I then realized that my dick had slid into his ass without a condom. I honestly didn't notice this at first. This guy claimed to be a power bottom. There was absolutely no resistance at all down there. My dick just slid in. His hole was huge. I immediately told him we should be using condoms. He then stated he didn't have any. With me being on my back he was sitting on top of me. This guy was easily 6'2 and I'm 5'7. I felt powerless. I told him to get off twice. He resisted. Finally after what seemed to be a few minutes he got off. We then both jacked off. His sperm got on my unbroken skins, which I know is not risky.
My point is my dick was inside him without a condom for probably at least a few minutes. I went to see my GP this morning who advised I should start HIV medication to ward off any possible infection. She stated this was only useful after the first 72 hours. She also gave me an antibiotic shot.
Can anyone please give me some advice here? Do you think the Dr was overracting here or should I start on these pills immediately? I was reading about the side effects of Altripla and they don't sound pleasant.
Thanks for reading
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I hope your phrasing was off there. PEP is only effective if INITIATED within the first 72 hours. In actuality, anything taken more than a day after the event is only theoretically effective.
More to the point, HIV is a very difficult vitus to transmit. More so from the insertive partner from the receptive partner. I expect you to test negative from this encounter, and wonder if your physician did not perhaps overreact in prescribing PEP. Regardless, if you are commited to taking it, prepare for side effects. This website has a very thorough LESSONS section which details Atripla's known impact on the body and mind.
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You're right my phrasing was off it should have been before not after.
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OK, so you are still within the time frame in which PEP must be initiated in order to be effective. And the earlier it is started the better. As Jonathan said it's not something to be taken lightly as these are potent meds which often have uncomfortable side effects.
Also, if you begin the regimen, you have to wait 13 weeks after completing the regimen in order to get a final reliable test result. Given what you have described I would say the odds are you will test negative. But HIV itatus is never something to guess about. Personally I don't think your doctor overreacted by prescribing PEP. You had unprotected intercourse which is high risk behavior. I would rather categorize his prescription as cautious rather than overreactive.
It's also definitely true that the risk is lower for the insertive partner. But lower risk is not the same as no risk. So you have a tough decision to make about whether to take the meds or to not take them and consider how that will affect the odds that you'll ultimately test negative.
If you decide to begin taking them the sooner you do it the better within the 72 hour period.
Also, you need to stay awake to the dangers of mixing excessive drinking with casual sex. It's a very dangerous combination and definitely to be avoided in the future. And of course, condoms are a must everytime you have intercourse no matter whom it's with and no matter whether you are insertive or receptive in the situation.
Keep us posted and good luck to you.
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Thanks Andy for the in-depth response. I have decided I'm just gonna wing it and not take the drugs. It's a tough call but my gut feeling is that I'm ok. The porn star did state he was tested pretty regularly and that he was negative. He could be lying, but I'll just hope for the best.
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Hello everyone again,
My GP just left me a voice mail message. Last Friday she ran a viral load test and an HIV ELISA test. Both she said were negative and non reactive. I know that the HIV test to be accurate you must test three months after the last risky encounter. But could the viral load test pick up something from the night before? My GP had mentioned the viral load test is very sensitive and may pick up a "little something" recently? I find it hard to believe that anything would show up about 12 hours after an encounter. Any thoughts? :)
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No, test will show up that early.
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For a viral load test to be accurate how many days/weeks would have to pass?
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poss,
Viral load testing is NOT an approved hiv diagnostic test.
You can read about the various tests by clicking on the Lesson link in the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0)
Ann
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Ann you're right. I googled this and it said "the viral load test should not be used in diagnosing HIV." It's normally done when a patient is first diagnosed with HIV. I'm just puzzled to as why she ordered this. (She hasn't returned my calls)
I will just wait the three months and have the Orasure.
Thanks 8)
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Ok, having made your decision to skip doing PEP, you need to focus now on staying productively busy during the coming weeks. Doing that will make the waiting time go more quickly and comfortably than you may imagine possible at this moment.
Good luck with your test, keep us posted and now, get busy.
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Removed after kindly reminder from Matty.
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Tempe boy I've read your post and now I'm scared again. I questioned the same thing with this guy. Why wouldn't he have condoms on him. The only thing he said to me when I was penetrating him was "just don't cum in me". He also said after that as part of his job he was routinely tested. It could all be a lie but I just went with it. After reading all the side effects of PEP I elected to not do it. And now it's too late to even re-think it.
If I get HIV I'm just gonna let it run it's course and not take any drugs. It's my own stupidity anyway.
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Poss,
Please disregard the advice just given to you by Tempeboy. His intentions were good, but his advice was misguided. Review the previous comments from Jkinatl2, Ann and Andy Velez.
Tempe,
It's nice that you want to help out here in Am I Infected but you should take the time to read our Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) and familiarise yourself with our posting guidelines, in particular:
Only those Moderators and members who are authorized to answer questions in the Am I Infected? forum are permitted do so. Unauthorized responses may be deleted without permission of the poster. Repeatedly posting replies of this nature may result in a Time Out or permanent ban, at the discretion of the Moderator Team.
MtD
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Now my mind is running a mile a second. Wouldn't there have to have been blood present inside his rectum for it to pass to me? I didn't see any blood when I removed my penis (sorry to be so graphic). Everything looked cleaned when he finally got off me and I finally pulled. Plus there was some anti-bacterial soap by his sink which I used to clean my penis off. He told me he used a lot of dildo's in his movies so that's why his ass was more like a crater than a small hole. (again sorry to be so graphic) Would this be to my benefit as well?
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Poss,
Calm down here. I agree with the advice that Andy gave you earlier:
Given what you have described I would say the odds are you will test negative. But HIV itatus is never something to guess about.
. . . which is why you need to have an antibody test at 13 weeks. Not a viral load test, an antibody test. PEP is now really a moot point as it's too late to be any good at this stage.
I think the chances of you testing negative at 13 weeks are good. As you were advised earlier, you'd do well to go about your daily life, rather than freaking out in front of the computer.
MtD
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mtd,
I'm not freaking out in front of the computer. I'm just trying to rationalize this to myself so that I can go about my daily life without worrying. I got a wake up call from Tempe boy but I decided to roll the dice and not take the drugs. I'm very atheltic and in excellent health and according to my doctor that can play a very important part in all of this.
Tomorrow I won't be thinking about this at all.
regards
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Athleticism and excellent health are absolutely immaterial insofar as HIV infection goes. When I was infected, I was an actor/model with a six-pack and extensive training in stage combat. I was actually filming a television pilot at the time, and was in some of the better shape of my life. Being athletic has ZERO to do with susceptibility to HIV. I am amazed that your doctor would think this, and further amazed that he would express it. It's not only inaccurate. It's a lie, based on prejudice.
Insofar as your situation is concerned, the PEP window has passed. Personally, as I mentioned, I was ambivalent as to whether it was warranted at all. But seeing as how you had the pills in hand, I saw no reason not to take them if you so chose.
However, at this point, your risk, though low, warrants a test at the 12/13 week period.
I will not remark upon the other poster's advice, which was removed. Except to say that "I wouldn't even want to be in the same room as someone who is seroconverting" is perhaps one of the most offensive things I have ever heard attributed to a health care professional. A doctor who says that should be reported. A person who makes up such a quote should be ashamed. What you got from Tempe was not a "wake up call." It was singularly bad advice and misinformation.
I second Andy and MtD's advice wholeheartedly. We have to decide for ourselves our level of acceptable risk. Yours is obviously not inclusive of unprotected insertive anal sex, even briefly. This is good information to know,l to avoid similarly stressful moments in your future.
I certianly hope that, by tomorrow, you are not upset about your decisions. While we could parse science all day, the only thing that matters is that YOU choose your personal boundaries, and stand by them. Even if it sometimes costs you the occasional porn star.
While the risk to your physical health was minimal, the risk to your mental heatlh is much greater. I sincerely wish you the best.Please post when you have tested in 12 weeks, ok?
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Well jkinatl2 you sound quite studly. I do a lot of boxing and martial arts so I can relate to your job.
Believe it. She did make that comment about excellent health. But I don't think she meant that because of it I would avoid HIV. Only that my defenses would be stronger so perhaps I would have a better chance of fighting it off if it got into my blood. I don't know if this is possible, I'm not a Dr.
I agree with you about the comment a health care provider said about someone who is seroconverting is just plain offensive. It's also very hurtful and ignorant
I second Andy and MtD's advice wholeheartedly. We have to decide for ourselves our level of acceptable risk. Yours is obviously not inclusive of unprotected insertive anal sex, even briefly. This is good information to know,l to avoid similarly stressful moments in your future.
Well actually in regards to the above quote it really wasn't my decision to have the guy sit on top me and have unprotected sex. I asked him repeatedly to get off. I mention I am only 5'7 and he was at least 6'2. I would have probably had to punch him to get him off and I didn't want to start a fight in bed. In my mind it was kind of like a reverse rape. I always believe in condoms everytime. It was just a bad situation and I felt out of control. And do you know in the morning he asked me if I wanted to fuck him again. That's when I got dressed and got the hell out of there.
Unfortunately I am upset about my decisions. That's why I'm still here. But I'm not upset about my decision to not take the drugs.
I will post when I get my results. My Dr wants me to come back in a month for another viral load and ELISA.
thanks for reading
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In the meantime stay productively busy. I continue to say the odds are significantly in your that you're going to test negative.
Cheers,
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Guys and Gals,
Sorry to be a bother again but something else has come up. Tonight I went to a boxing class to get my mind off all this crap I've been going through. Just before the class ended the we did push ups with partners. We faced each other and after each push up we slapped hands. Kind of like high fiving but a little faster. I noticed the guy had bloodied nuckles which were on the opposite side from where we slapped. I am thinking perhaps there was a little blood on the other side as well. I didn't have an open sores on my hands but I do have big callousus (not spelled right) just below my fingers. If some of that blood got on my hands could I become infected this way? I didn't see any on my hands after class but maybe there was some small amount that I couldn't see. I know blood is highly infectious. Immediately after the class ended I washed my hands with soap and cold water.
Is this another potential worry? Any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated. Also was I right in keeping this in my original thread? :-\
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No this is not a potential worry and yes you did the right thing by keeping your new question in this thread.
High Fiving (bloody knuckles, callouses or otherwise) is considered casual contact and does not constitute a risk in terms of HIV transmission.
MtD
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Question folks,
My physician suggested I return in four weeks for a re-test of the ELISA and viral load. That would be this coming Friday. I know viral load is not approved for diagnostic purposes and the four weeks is not an accurate timeframe for the ELISA. However, according to my Physician the viral load can be accurate indicator of HIV infection 14 days after exposure.
I know the people who answer on here are not physicians but I just wanted their personal views on this. I have mixed feelings about going back and also the prospect of having my arm poked again. Although this is what she did recommend. Do you think re-testing this early is necessary? Or just a waste of time and resources?
Thanks
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poss,
Your doctor knows nothing about hiv transmission and infection. If he did, he would not be ordering any test for you at all. You were not at risk for hiv infection during the incident you describe with someone's bloody knuckle. You do not need testing over this incident.
A PCR is definitely not needed and may cause you more anxiety if you receive a false positive. ONLY RNA PRC tests are ever used - and then they are ONLY used in the case of a high risk incident, such as receptive anal UNPROTECTED intercourse with someone who you KNOW to be hiv positive. I can't help but wonder if your doc stands to benefit financially if you test with a PCR.
You didn't have a risk, you don't need to test, and you might want to find a more knowledgeable doctor for your healthcare needs.
Ann
edited for emphasis
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Ann,
My apologizes. I was refering to the incident that happened in the beginning of my thread. I had some brief unprotected insertive intercourse on October 4. I went to see my Dr. on Oct 5 who ran an ELISA and viral load. Both came back non-reactive. She recommended I return in four weeks for a repeat of both tests.
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poss,
You don't need PCR testing over that incident either. It's unlikely that you, as the insertive partner, would become infected from such a brief encounter.
However that does not make it no risk and you do need to test. As the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will test positive by six weeks, you'd be best off waiting for six weeks as four weeks is slightly too soon - and no matter when you test, you don't need a PCR. It's up to you, it's your dime, but you're most likely to test negative given the nature and brevity of your incident.
If you insist on the PCR, make sure it's an RNA, not DNA.
I'm fully expecting you to test negative and so should you - but remember, only a three month negative antibody result is conclusive, and any positive PCR result must be confirmed with a positive ELISA plus a positive Western Blot.
Ann
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Hello again,
Just over seven weeks ago I had some unprotected insertive anal sex with a guy who was an escort and porn star. Today I went to see my Dr. for a follow-up appointment. She re-tested me for HIV (Oraquick) and thank God the result was negative. I know it's a bit early for complete assurance, but I do feel lot better. I will test again in January just to make sure.
Just a quick question. What do the mods think about using condoms during oral sex? I've heard so many different opinions on this. It's considered low risk and hence many people don't use them during oral sex, or at least the ones I know. But low risk is not no risk. I don't mind wearing one when Im being sucked but I myself do not like sucking rubber. ;D
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Ya, a commonly asked and reasonable question since opinions vary somewhat.
There is no HIV risk to a man who is receiving unprotected oral sex. There is a theoretical risk of transmission to someone performing oral sex on an HIV positive male. But:
It's a theoretical risk. There are no documented cases of the virus being transmitted in this way in the history of the pandemic. Recent studies of serodiscordant couples and oral sex revealed that there were no transmissions in the sample groups.
Given that people have real not theoretical sex and that there are no documented cases of transmission, I'd say go ahead and suck nude penis. It's ok.
MtD
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Matty,
That's what I wanted to hear !! ;D I've sucked and been sucked so much in my life, and no doubt some of those people were poz, yet I'm still negative. It's just always been at the back of mind usually during the act there are reports of people getting it from sucking. I suspect and hope most of them are either bogus or they had unprotected anal as well.
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PE,
Keep in mind that there ARE other STIs you can get from sucking and it's possible to have one with no symptoms. When you go for your routine sexual health care checks, it's a good idea to have them give you a throat swab as well as the other various tests. Hiv is not the only thing you should test for - you're more likely to pick up something like chlamydia or gonorrhea.
I hope your recent testing included a full STI panel.
As for hiv, I don't expect your result to change, but remember to confirm your result at three months.
Ann
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Well I wanted to follow-up on my possible exposure in October. I got tested two weeks ago and the result came out negative. I'm sure glad I didn't do the PEP.
But you know what? I did something kind of stupid last week. I hooked up with this guy in LA and we played around a bit without a condom. We didn't really have anal sex per se but he did probe a bit with the head of his penis. What I mean is his dick went into my ass (maybe an inch or less). This went on for about a minute or two. He didn't cum but I don't know if there was pre-cum.
This really isn't a risk right? Or should I be worried again? ???
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We didn't really have anal sex per se but he did probe a bit with the head of his penis. What I mean is his dick went into my ass (maybe an inch or less). This went on for about a minute or two. He didn't cum but I don't know if there was pre-cum.
This is a practice called "dipping" and the biggest problem with unprotected dipping is that it leads to unprotected fucking. Unprotected fucking is a definite risk.
Look, the reality is that you've probably not been infected, but I'm not prepared to call this a no-risk situation. As such I advise you to have an HIV antibody test 13 weeks from the date of this exposure. You should probably be screened for other STD's as well. Just to be sure.
If you want to remain HIV free you're going to have to start using condoms when you fuck someone or let someone fuck you.
MtD
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wow that was a quick response
great........another hiv test. well its my fault. I got caught up in the heat of the moment. you're right about the condoms.
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I agree with Matty. You definitely need to get tested even though in all likelihood, based on what you have reported you will test negative.
Forget about that heat of the moment stuff. You're responsible for your health and anytime you have unprotected intercourse or even dipping you are putting your life at risk. It's as stark and as simple as that. You can have all the sex you want with as many guys as you want to, but when it comes to hiding the salami, whoever is putting it in has to be wearing a condom. Every time. No exceptions. We don't want you to be coming here someday to tell us you just tested positive so stop risking your life.
Good luck with your test. Keep us posted.
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Andy thanks for the wake up call. I've gotta stop this behavior. It's destructive and could end up making me positive.
Matty is that photograph of you? It's very powerful. ;)
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You're welcome. Take it to heart, put what I said into practice and you won't become another guy who has to say, "I didn't think it would ever happen to me."