Author Topic: HIV Proviral DNA/RNA negative (Read 32118 times)

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #50 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:38:15 pm »

Thank you so much Ann for such a considered response, and sharing your experience of IV drug use. I hope you don’t mind but I cut, pasted and then printed out the text of your response and gave it to my said friend tonight. I then gave her numerous internet links and told her to get to an internet café (she has no internet) over the weekend and do some reading.

My parting words on the matter were that I am willing to take Monday off of work and drive her to the GUM walk in first thing on Monday morning. I told her to text me if she wants to take me up on the offer.

I think that is the best that I can do for her now without coming across as some sort of HIV police and interfering friend. I thought I was through with this HIV stuff and now this. On a side note a best friends neighbour who is also a casual acquaintance was diagnosed not so long ago and is quite open about her status. She is not a drug user, but just a standard heterosexual, living a normal, dull life in suburbia. Somewhat of an eye opener all this.

Anyway cheers for the advice, I think that it might just persuade her to pay this the attention that it deserves.

L

Ann · « **Reply #51 on:** June 25, 2011, 08:38:26 am »

L,

My injecting drug use days are far, far behind me. I haven't used since well before my 24 year old daughter was born. While I did end up with hep C (now cured) from those days, I got hiv the old fashioned way in '97. I too am what you might consider to be a "standard heterosexual, living a normal, dull life in suburbia". Hell, I live in the Isle of Man and I got my virus here from someone who was born Manx. (I'm originally from the States) Hiv is everywhere, not just in the gay community or in Africa.

And remember, all you need to do is use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse (and don't share works) and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!

I don't mind that you shared what I wrote with your friend - in fact I'm glad you did. Hiv is nothing to mess around with. If she did actually have a false positive result, she needs to know so she can protect herself in future. Same thing if she is positive. She needs to protect herself and her health in future by monitoring her virus and going on treatment when it is needed. But you're also right - you've done what you can and the ball is now in her court. I hope she takes you up on your offer to go to the GUM with her.

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #52 on:** August 26, 2011, 05:50:46 am »

Quick question, I think I know that the answer is no risk, especially after 8 years here, but thought I would check. Currently in Thailand in Phuket on a scuba holiday. Made a promise to myself that I would not indulge in any gogo type behaviour, as I like to live a life of celebacy.

Just sat in a gogo drinking a few beers and a dancer takes my new bottle and rubs and part inserts it into herself. It was a new bottle to I just drank from it thinking now problem. Is this definatley no risk. Another one sat on my lap naked and when I pushed her off she tried to kiss me and put her chewing gum in my mouth. I assume that is also no risk.

Cheers L.

Ann · « **Reply #53 on:** August 26, 2011, 06:59:19 am »

L,

You assume correctly. Nothing that went down in the gogo was a risk for hiv infection.

I've said it to you before and I'll say it again:

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse (and don't share works), correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!

You can have all the sex you want while you're in Thailand (or anywhere), just make sure you're using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse. Read through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them correctly. The first link is particularly informative.

Hmph. Thailand. Lucky you!

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #54 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:18:09 am »

Just on my annual Trip to the mecca of Thai boxing. To reward myself for winning several bouts I proceeded to accept the services of the hotel massage girl. She caught me off guard and started giving me unprotected oral. No risk there I know.

However I really fucked up, and she ask me to have anal sex with her, but there was no condom in sight. After about one minute I came to my senses. That was Thursday night. About 12 hours later I started a cocktail of Truvada and Stocric (Susitiva). Been on that two days now.

Today I took her for HIV testing and she was negative on the fourth generation testing. Should I continue with the PEP.

Thanks again for your time and commitment.

L

Andy Velez · « **Reply #55 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:22:28 am »

Someone else's negative test result should never the basis on which you decide your own HIV status. It's YOUR test result that matters.

You did have a risk albeit a relatively low one. It was a single incident and of relatively low duration. And it is significantly more difficult to transmit from woman to man than the other way around. Taking that all into consideration I would say that even without PEP the odds are you will test negative.

But whether to continue with PEP or not is up to you. Low risk is not the same as no risk. Most importantly you have to learn from this experience and always without exception use a condom for vaginal and anal intercourse. No exceptions.

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #56 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:30:01 am »

I hear you Andy. I am just thinking that as her result is negative then it is likely that she would have had to have been infected in the last three or four weeks and therefore I am hoping that she is definitively negative. Just wondering if PEP was overkill.

Cheers.

L

Ann · « **Reply #57 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:35:45 am »

UK,

For insertive intercourse, PEP is overkill regardless of her test results. It's up to you whether or not you continue taking it.

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #58 on:** July 07, 2012, 08:39:28 am »

Thanks Ann, that's what I thought. A negative test result for her. I think that I will give the rest of the PEP a miss.

Cheers again.

L

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #59 on:** July 08, 2012, 06:28:03 am »

Because here in the land of smiles nothing is ever done correctly, I am wondering about my PEP regime. I have decided to continue the course. So went to get another 25 days worth.

The first three days worth were once a day of truvada and stocrin, one tablet each.

Today the doctor gave me the remaining 25 days, but there are 50 truvada, and the instrutions every 12 hours, but stocrin once a day. Is that a mistake.

Do truvada do two sizes?

Cheers in advance.

Ann · « **Reply #60 on:** July 08, 2012, 09:14:58 am »

Mistake,

Yes, it is a mistake. Truvada (tenofovir + emtricitabine) is only ever taken once a day and there is only one "size".

On the other hand... make sure you've not been given a generic version of Combivir. Combivir (zidovudine + lamivudine) must be taken twice a day. The individual drugs should be on the label somewhere, so check.

If you have been given Combivir instead of Truvada, don't worry about it - just take it twice a day as instructed. It's every bit as effective as Truvada, it's just more inconvenient with the twice a day dosing.

It is recommended that you only take the Stocrin (aka Sustiva, aka efavirenz) right before bed - and at least two hours after a meal to decrease the side-effects. You should also avoid a high-fat meal before taking Stocrin.

If you have indeed been given twice as much Truvada as you need, take the extras to a local ASO (aids service organisation) - I'm sure they'd appreciate having them. You can find an ASO near you over at the worldwide ASO database at aidsmap.com.

You really don't need PEP, but good luck anyway.

Ann

edited to fix broken linky

Ann · « **Reply #61 on:** July 08, 2012, 09:31:21 am »

L,

I've just been re-reading your entire thread. (I know, I need to get a life.) You go to Thailand every year and you should have realised by now that you need to take a load of condoms with you when you go.

My partner sometimes goes to Thailand with a mate of his and I always buy the condoms myself (or get them from the clinic) and make sure they go in his bag. (Yes, he does what he does over there with my blessings - provided he's using the condoms I pack for him. I know he treats the women with respect and that's my only concern outside condom usage.)

Condoms can sometimes be difficult to find abroad and in Asian countries, they can often be too small for European men. Take your own and always keep a few with you at all times, just in case.

You really need to wise up when it comes to condoms. OK?

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #62 on:** July 08, 2012, 12:27:03 pm »

Thanks Ann, I thought that it was a mistake. It is definately Truvada. So I will just take the one a day and donate the rest.

I don't bring condoms because I have no intention of having sex. I know you say they are safe, and to a point yes, but there is always that tiny chance of breakage that got me here eight years ago. That and the fact that regardless of what brand I use I can't feel nothing so it seems a pointless excercise having sex at all.

No feeling plus a small chance, even miniscule, what is the point. There is a small chance of getting run over crossing the road, but I don't do it unless there is something in it for me.

It's all academic anyway, I come here for Thai boxing, but when I get back to the UK I have an impending criminal trial, and I am looking at a five stretch. It is funny because I know everyone will say that HIV is not my problem, but the last eight years of near celebacy, plus angst, plus frustration has turned my mild mannered nature the opposite direction. I have tried dealing with my anger by taking part in MMA and Muay Thai but it hasn't worked. And now I have beaten an abusive drunken prick half to death when ordinarily I would have walked away, and that is because I am just pissed off the whole time.

Thankfully I am still young and maybe within the next 20 years there will be a solution, I have kept more than up to date on the research front.

Good of you to let your husband come here Ann. I can tell you now though, despite what any statistics say, the women here just won't insist on a condom. I hope that your husband is doing the right thing.

Whilst I am relatively young there are many aging men here with diabetes, exploding livers and nothing to lose, none of which use a condom. Why would they bother, its a brutal dog eat dog place.

Off to bed now. I have been taking my combination in the morning, so far touch wood no problems, I hope it stays that way, I have had three doses so far.

Thanks again.

L

Andy Velez · « **Reply #63 on:** July 08, 2012, 12:53:53 pm »

Quote from: UK-Mistake on July 08, 2012, 12:27:03 pm

I don't bring condoms because I have no intention of having sex. I know you say they are safe, and to a point yes, but there is always that tiny chance of breakage that got me here eight years ago. That and the fact that regardless of what brand I use I can't feel nothing so it seems a pointless excercise having sex at all.

Do what you want to as far as taking condoms. But I have many, many times heard that "no intention of having sex" comment. And then sex happens. You can always not use them if you have them. It's just good to have them for the just in case scenario is how I see it.

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #64 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:09:18 pm »

These drugs are dong quite the number on me. Not complaining, I appreciate access to them. Just wanted some advice. I have two more muay Thai matches. Should I proceed, or am I likely to run out of energy after one round. I know I feel lethargic and nausious, but I was expecting that. Is there any info on how they affect stamina. I am not sure whether to just come on back to the UK now.

Cheers.

Ann · « **Reply #65 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:58:51 pm »

L,

I've already told you that PEP is unnecessary in your case. Why you're continuing with it is beyond me.

As for stamina, sure, the meds could affect you short term. Why don't you just see how you feel after a workout?

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #66 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:57:07 am »

That's a grand suggestion Andy, if I come here again I will bring condoms just in case. I must be the only Western bloked on the plane from Heathrow who has come here a dozen times in a row without so much as a blow job, lol.

Thanks Ann for that suggestion. Just spent two hours in the gym and no effect on stamina. It's not the Truvada that does it, it is the Stocrin, rattles the head a bit, but has been getting less as the days go by. I think that it will hopefully touch wood not bother me at all soon.

Cheers.

L

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #67 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:44:39 am »

Met up with the same massage girl last night when I was out eating. She was delighted to see me and so grateful that I had taken her for HIV testing. I proceeded to give her a lecture on safe sex, although it was really myself who I was angry with.

Anyway we have hit it off and she came back to my room again with me. I had the good sense to stop off at the 7/11 and buy some condoms that I thought would stay in the packet. I chose Durex "Feather lite". Well the inevitable happened and using feather lite I did actually get some sensation. It's not great but better than nothing. Also practised oral sex both ways, obviously as I have read here a dozen times is no risk.

It has though led to an absurd situation. I have a girl in my room watching me take HIV medication because of an incident with her from a week ago, whilst she is sitting there thinking she is negative. lol. Anyway, just thought that I would check in and point out that the Durex Feather lites are just about doable. And also switching the time of PEP to before bedtime has done away with the hit round the head feeling.

Thanks.

L

Ann · « **Reply #68 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:39:08 am »

L,

You're welcome.

I'm glad you started taking the Sustiva at night (like you're supposed to) and also that you found condoms you feel comfortable with. Remember, you should be using them back home in the UK as well. Hiv has no respect for borders - it's everywhere.

Ann

edited to add... PS - This is important! With the Feather-Lites, you need to make sure you are using lube - particularly for anal. They are really only safe for anal if you're lubed up with plenty of water-based lube. If you have no water-based lube to hand, instead of using a moisturiser that might contain oil in some form, use plenty of spit. Proper water-based lube is best, but spit is better than something oil-based and it's better than nothing.

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #69 on:** July 13, 2012, 02:08:41 am »

Ahah one step ahead Ann. It's that wretched vaseline plus condom that got me here nearly a decade ago. I know all about the perils of oil based lube and condoms. I think that anal thing with her was a one off as we were without condoms the first time.

I have struck up quite a relationship with her, so off to purchase some more featherlites.

Thanks again.

L

Ann · « **Reply #70 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:42:07 am »

L,

Vaseline??? Ouch! That is probably the worst thing you could use with latex condoms.

You need to know that it's advisable to use lube even when engaging in vaginal intercourse, particularly if the sex lasts for a while. And it's an absolute must for anal, particularly with thinner condoms. Better safe than sorry.

Now get off the internet and get yourself into a winning mind-set for your upcoming matches, and good luck with them.

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #71 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:18:09 pm »

Hello Ann,

Thanks for the well wishes, three of my five matches went in my favour so not a bad result for someone in my mindset. I know this is an HIV specific forum, but I was just wondering. I have developed raised spots/rashes on the top of my feet and hands and on the palm of my hands, although there they are less raised. Is this likely syphyllis? I can't find anything to suggest that it is in any way HIV specific and I know that symptoms are unreliable in that respect anyway, due to the different manifestations on different people etc.

Cheers.

L

Ann · « **Reply #72 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:46:35 am »

L,

It might be syphilis, and it might not. The secondary syphilis rash is normally only on the palms of the hands and/or the soles of the feet, but it can be other places as well.

It could also be a reaction to those heavy-duty drugs you're insisting on taking (unnecessarily). That's where my money is....

Come on, you know the score... go see a doctor. Nobody can diagnose you over the internet.

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #73 on:** July 20, 2012, 02:44:38 pm »

Spent an hour with a GUM appointment. They took blood and urine for everything. The first Doctor that I saw there was very non commital about the raised rash on my hands and feet which is starting to spread slightly up my right arm. It is itchy on my feet. She said it could be the drugs or ARS, obviously as ARS is so non-specific.

She then asked her boss a consultant about my situation. He felt that I should not bother taking the PEP. But as I have survived two weeks and if this rash is the worst that is happening, if it is from PEP then I can live with it and finish the next two weeks.

They gave me an HIV instant finger prick test. Too early I think obviously two weeks after the event, but perhaps for a baseline. I am wondering if this is seroconversion rash then would I not test positive, given that I have had the rash since about Tuesday I think.

Anyway got to go back next week regarding other bloods to see if the drugs are messing with my kidney's etc.

Also she started on the post PEP window thing. Said 6 weeks, 3 months then 6 months. I told her 6 months is outdated. She said it was basically to cover their ass. But a 6 week quite frankly will please me.

Also despite her being not very comitting, she then said that because the girl had a negative fourth generation that there is a very little chance that she could have HIV anyway. Then said even if she did the odds were astronomically in my favour, so a lot of mixed signals. Don't want to tempt fate but no other symptoms yet to speak of, and my strenght and energy seem normal.

I know the drill, it is now just a waiting game.

Cheers.

L

Ann · « **Reply #74 on:** July 21, 2012, 08:18:34 am »

L,

So basically they told you the same things we did. You didn't need PEP in the first place.

Regarding the rash, the ARS rash is never raised or itchy, so that was wrong. Thing is, they probably don't see a real ARS rash all that often. Did you ask about syphilis?

Nothing else to add, other than it's refreshing to know at least one health care professional admits that when they say six months, they're doing nothing more than covering their ass. Six month testing is unnecessary.

Ann

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #75 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:40:18 pm »

Yep pretty much the same advice as your good self Ann. Actually I have done the maths and I know that statistics mean nothing, but a 1 in 2000 chance of insertive anal with a poz partner, multiplied by a 10 percent chance of PEP failure and then lets say for argument sake a 1 percent chance the girl is positive in a country that boasts a 2 percent prevelence, but I am taking into account her test. That adds up to about a 1 in 2 milliion chance. Better odds that a baby born to a positive mother. But stranger things have happened.

I will just keep plugging along with the PEP, as if anything a reminder to myself not to be such an enromous cock in the future. And with those odds etc that I have quoted, if I do end up Poz which I sincerely hope not then I will just accept it, with the exception of wearing a condom (The obvious clever persons choice), I can't do any more. Also most people I have talked to in SEA who are not there for the same reasons as me but there for whoring all say that they have at least one in every hundred condoms break, and that is with partners to whom they don't know their status and they don't take PEP.

This rash is just a bitch that has come along at just the wrong time to fuck with my head, but that's life. I am just trying to forget this and get on with the life I have back here in the UK.

Regarding the clinic, they even admitted that with their third generation tests the 3 month mark let alone the six month mark was overkill and that they had not seen a 6 week change, but as that is protocol I guess that is what is followed. In terms of syphiliis it is too soon for secondary symptoms so they say. Oh, also gave me a retroactive Hep B vaccination.

Anyway thanks for the continuing support, will post the six week results and then the three month ones.

L

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #76 on:** July 23, 2012, 03:02:52 pm »

Feel bad for making a nuisance of myself and using up resources here. Just a quick question. If the rash that I had that has now gone was seroconversion and failure of PEP then would I test positive in ten days time which is four weeks post exposure and the end of PEP.

Cheers.

L

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #77 on:** July 24, 2012, 05:37:01 pm »

Anyone? got any ideas about testing just after the completion of PEP. I know non-specific symptoms etc, but will testing after PEP and with the disappearance of symptoms confirm that it was not actually ARS.

Cheer again.

L.

jkinatl2 · « **Reply #78 on:** July 24, 2012, 06:19:05 pm »

Quote from: UK-Mistake on July 24, 2012, 05:37:01 pm

Anyone? got any ideas about testing just after the completion of PEP. I know non-specific symptoms etc, but will testing after PEP and with the disappearance of symptoms confirm that it was not actually ARS.

Cheer again.

L.

You really have no recourse but to wait six weeks after the end of PEP for a preliminary test, then again at three months.

Even if your risk was deemed high enough to warrant PEP (protip: it wasn't) the whole PURPOSE of PEP is to create a hostile environment in which HIV cannot reproduce. Therefore, even if you NEEDED PEP

and you did not

and if FAILED, you would likely not mount an immune response until six weeks-ish post treatment. You are on a similar medical regimen as many of us with HIV. And the point of that regimen is to suppress HIV replication. THAT is why HIV treatment is so effective. And that is why PEP extends the window period.

Since I already created antibodies a long time ago, I would still test positive myself. But being on an effective treatment regimen, my viral load is undetectable.

Which means that had I not already produced antibodies against HIV, I would be highly unlikely to do so unless/until I stopped treatment and my body reacted to the virus.

I know you are anxious, but there are no cheats here, no shortcuts. As a matter of fact, and not to drive a point further home, but you have taken an unnecessarily LONG journey through this process. Your choice, absolutely. But the consequences of that choice is a far longer window/testing period.

Wish there were more answers, or answers you liked.

Also, those statistics you quote are pretty much utter bullshit, based on disreputable studies and almost universally inapplicable. You will note we never, ever quote stats. It's for a reason. This site is based on hard science.

UK-Mistake · « **Reply #79 on:** July 24, 2012, 07:12:08 pm »

Thanks JK for taking the time to respond and an explanation to some extent of the whole PEP thing.

True there are not shortcuts for this particular nightmare that is HIV testing. Sadly true also that stats mean nothing in the real world.

I just take comfort in the fact that my partner has a negative fourth generation ELISA that I saw with my own eyes. That's gotta be some comfort for me. And this whole thing might just have saved her in the future after the thorough pigeon Thai lecture I gave her after the event, and asked the doctor to give to her whilst enjoying my trip to the hospital.

Cheers again.

L

Ann · « **Reply #80 on:** July 25, 2012, 07:00:37 am »

L,

The only thing I have to add to Jonathan's sage remarks is that the rash you've experienced is most likely to be a reaction to the Sustiva/Stocrin/efavirenz and it came on exactly at the time it normally appears.

It's very common for people to get this rash and it is the main reason PEP usually consists of Kaletra/Truvada rather than Sustiva/Truvada. They are equally effective, but you have a lesser chance of getting the rash with Kaletra. The trade-off is that Kaletra can cause diarrhea while the body adjusts to the med.

I've said it (how many times now?) before and I'll say it one last time - you were unlikely to end up positive over this situation, PEP or no PEP.

Now you're just going to have to deal with the extended window period - an extension you have created yourself unnecessarily.

We're really not here to hold your hand while you wait to test. I suggest you concentrate on other things in your life - like that criminal trial you've got coming up for beating the crap out of some guy? Maybe now is the time to seek out counseling to get to the bottom of your anger issues. Seeing a counselor will go in your favour in court, and it will help you in other ways too.

Ann

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Author Topic: HIV Proviral DNA/RNA negative (Read 32118 times)