POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: Paul E on February 09, 2009, 12:40:26 pm
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Hi all,
I am scared to death, my HIV test results are due in tomorrow morning but I am now convinced it will come back positive. I didn't know what to do, I couldn't sleep at all last night, sO I thought I will ask for your help..
My story: about 1.2 year ago I had protected sex with a black sex worker ( she was from Africa ), I cheked the condom at the time, it wasn't broken, but I cannot be sure, I was a little bit drunk.
A few weeks later I started to develop all sorts of symptoms ( muscle pain, headache, swollen lymph nodes in the neck and groin area, pain in the joints, etc.
I was too scared to get tested, the symptoms got away and I tried to forget about it. Two months ago though ( 1 year after the encounter ) the symptomps appeared again , even stronger, and I got them since, no improvement.
I finally decided that I need to know and went and did the test, tomorrow I will get the result. To be honest, I am pretty surfe it's positive, I am terrified bit I cannot go any longer wondering if I have it or not.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Had the condom failed you would have known without a doubt.
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Paul,
As long as you've always had protected intercourse with ANYONE, not just sex workers, then there is no reason to believe your test will come back with anything other than negative results.
Ann
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Ann, Rapidrod, thank you for your quick responses. I am going mad here, I can't think of anything else.
I remembered I took a full blood test ( but not the HIV ) 7 months after the encounter and everything was ok ( red cells, white cells, etc ), but the fact that I have all these symptoms is driving me crazy.
I guess we will find out tomorrow.
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When you find yourself tensing up, take some good deep and slow breaths in and then out again. It really helps.
Your fears and your mind notwithstanding, nothing you are reporting suggests to me to expect other than a negative result. Good luck.
Cheers.
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Test results came back negative, thank you for your encouraging words before I went to the doctor to get these results. This is yet another example of symptoms meaning nothing when it comes to HIV.
Always use condoms and stay safe !
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Good news Paul, but remember a negative test doesn't mean that you are immune and can go out and make the same mistakes again.
Remember condoms at all times...NO EXEPTIONS.
Jan
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Hi all,
My story is this: i had unprotected oral sex ( giving and receiving ) and protected intercourse with a girl I didn't know before that night. Two weeks later, I developed flu-like symptmoms : headache, fever, muscle pain in the whole body, skin rash ( small red spots ) + swollen glands in the groiin and armpits.
Things that worry me to death when I am thinking of that night : she was very excitable, she was wet for the entire night, and we had a long foreplay without condom, so its very possible that her fluids got on my unprotected penis. Also, although in theory oral sex does not carry the risk of HIV transmission, i relized the next morning i had a beggining of a cold sore on my mouth, so there is also a possibility that her fluids entered my body during the oral sex.
To make things worse, I didn't check at the end whether the condom was intact, so I am worried about that as well. I read a lot on this site about HIV infection, but given my symptoms and my experience I just shared with you, I started to really believe I got infected this time.
Of course I will get tested ASAP and I will also ask her to test, but your advice. help in the meantime would be greatly appreciated I am going through hell ( again ) with this.
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Paul,
I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
You didn't have a risk. Neither going down on a woman, nor getting your dick sucked are risks. Going down on a woman isn't a risk regardless of what's going on in your mouth. And condoms have been proven to prevent hiv infection and when they break, it's really obvious. Not only do you not need to test, but you also do not need to ask her to test. Her hiv status is irrelevant as you did nothing risky.
Ann
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Ann,
Thanks for the reply. It's the fact that we played a lot without condom ( but not insertive sex ) that worries me. She was super excited, I was naked, so her body fluids most likely got on my penis even if we didn't have unprotected sex.
Also the fact that I got all the symptoms without even thinking about HIV. Normally your mind plays games but this time i wasn't thinking at all about the incident when I started to get all the usual symptoms, so this time is not my mind.
I will go through hell again for 13 weeks, it seems that we never learn :( Many thanks again for the encouraging words.
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it seems that we never learn
Paul,
Indeed, you aren't learning a thing from your time on this website.
Frottage (the rubbing of unprotected genitals together) isn't a risk. What you describe isn't a risk either. Just be happy you happened to be with a healthy, sexual woman who becomes lubricated when she gets sexually excited. You did not penetrate her vagina without a condom therefore, you weren't at risk. Not even if she happens to be hiv positive.
Get over yourself. If you put yourself through 13 weeks of unnecessary worry, so be it. Just don't think you'll be allowed to use this website to wring your hands over this NO RISK scenario.
Ann
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Hi Ann,
I have no intention to misuse this site, I am just extremely worried about the symptoms and perhaps I a was looking for some answers.
A skin rash appeared on my body today ( I had it already on the face ) and I freaked out, I am extremely tired and still swollen in my groin area, muscle pain, all the usual symptoms. As much as I am trying not to think about it, it is very difficult, the mind tells you that anything is possible ( even if in reality it's just a theoretical risk ).
I did a blood test yesterday the results came back today and my lymphocite count is below normal which adds to the anxiety.
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Fortunately, fears aren't facts. And there is no basis in HIV-science for you to be concerned.
There is no need for HIV testing.
I will also tell you that you can't come running here everytime you have another scare attack. As Ann has said, you need to apply the information you've gotten here to future situations. Just because you have had sex and may have some symptoms afterwards, that doesn't mean HIV is the issue. And it won't be as long as you always use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse.
It's just as simple as that.
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Thanks Andy, Ann,
I will not post here until I get my test results in 11 weeks time, I will have a full STDs check up.
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I am sorry I am posting again, but since my last post I developed further worrying symptoms: a very bad " flu " within 4 weeks and a rash that appeared on my penis ( many small red bumps ) and on my scrotum, rash on my chest & thighs, joints pain, chest pain, extreme fatigue ( i sleep for 10 hours and wake up tired ). I went to the doctor, he said it looks like an mild infection but he gave me Ofloxacin which I took for 10 days, the rash on my penis went away after 2 weeks but apart from the rash, i am still experiencing the same symptoms, I feel sick every day. I don't know what to do anymore, I also ran a full blood test which didn't show any abnormalities (??!). I am now fearing the worst, still one month to go until my 13 weeks tests :(
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Paul,
Nothing you've added changes the fact that you did NOT have a risk for hiv infection. Keep posting over this NO RISK incident and you'll be given a time out.
If you read the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
Please consider yourself warned.
Ann
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Ann,
I understand the no-risk situation with regards to my sexual encounter. What i didnt mention until now, is that I am also worried about a yellow fever vaccination that I had to take in country with a big % of the population being infected with HIV. This was about a week and a half after my exposure, the hospital was not clean at all an when they took the shot I could not see where they took the needle from ( whether it was a sterile one or not ). For some reason at that time I thought the vaccine came with it's own needle, but i started to doubt it after I experienced my symptoms. I started to think what if the needle was used before ? There is this possibility which scares me given my symptoms. Sorry I didn't mention this incident until now but I have been trying to convince myself that HIV symptoms ( if this is the case ) cannot appear in 4 days ( I started to develop symptoms 4 days after the vaccination and 2 weeks after the sexual encounter ). I hope this explains my fears and ( perhaps ) excessive posting. What do you think?
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Paul,
If you're worried about the vaccination, then you need to go back to the place where you had the vaccination and talk to the person who gave it to you. It's very possible you've had some sort of reaction to the vaccination and that's what is making you feel unwell.
Whatever is going on has NOTHING to do with hiv as you did not have a risk for hiv infection. Hospitals are not in the habit of re-using needles.
Ann
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Ann, Andy,
I wanted to ask you a question and please don't ban me or get upset because I am asking this: from your experience, it is possible to experience symptoms 11 weeks after a potential exposure ?
It's 11 weeks since my exposure and I feel even worse than before: my lymph nodes are super swollen, I have joint and muscle pain, pain in my arms, extreme numbness of my hands ( I can barely move them when I wake up ) , I have abdominal pain and extreme fatigue. I also noticed my gums are bleeding much more than before :(
I started to think this is due to what others describe as " rough " seroconversion and I am now very much afraid to go and test at 13 weeks.
Just wanted your opinion on this, please...
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No answers?
My symptoms are now so bad that I lost any hope, I am preparing myself mentally for the worst when I go and test again at 13 weeks. :(
Waking up every day with extreme numbness in my hands and feet, swollen lymph nodes, muscle and joint pain has removed any bit of hope I had a few weeks back that I will come out of this ok.
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Paul,
Exposure? What exposure? You didn't have a risk, remember?
Go see a doctor to find out what, if anything, is wrong with you. Whatever it is, it isn't hiv. You didn't have a risk for hiv infection.
Ann
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Many thanks Ann,
Since I learned that my gums are bleeding quite a lot, the oral sex I had makes me think there is a risk ( even if it categorized as theoretical ). Adding the fact that I didn't check the condom after the vaginal sex plus all the violent symptoms I had and still have since then gives me little hope for the test result.
I pray everyday that you guys will be right again and the test result will come negative...
Many thanks again for the encouraging words and for taking the time to reply to me.
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Paul,
I've already told you that going down on a woman isn't a risk no matter what is going on in your mouth.
Post again for anything other than to tell us about your negative result and you'll be given that time out you've been repeatedly warned about.
Ann
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Ok, I will not post about my symptoms anymore, but there is also sometiung else on my mind: is it possible at all to have HIV from open mouth kissing?
CDC seems to think it is a very low risk, but it is possible...
I kissed a sex worker in a night club in Africa two weeks after my " exposure ", we didn't do anything else, no sex, just open mouth kissing ( very stupid as the % of HIV+ in Africa is very high ) and no I think that is a risk: if she had a lession on her lips / mouth or very bad mouth hygiene, she could have passed the virus... what do you think?
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Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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No, kissing is not a risk for HIV transmission. ANYTHING sexual is risky theoretically other than using your own hand on yourself.
It's time for you to move on. We're not here to entertain every thought and fear that pops into your mind as if it is a serious risk. You've been told the basics about protecting yourself against HIV. Repeatedly.
If you come back again with more of what ifs and such, you're going to get a 28 day Time Out. Considered yourself warned.
Get on with your life.
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Today, i just received the shock of my life - I am HIV positive, the Elisa and WB came back positive.
The shock is even greater after 3 months of hoping that everything is OK, following two " no / low risk incidents "
My story is this, I had uprotected oral sex ( giving and receiving ) and PROTECTED, with no condom breackage with a girl 3 months ago and also kissed ( open mouth ) another girl in Africa ( but absolutely no sex ) 2 weeks after the first incident. The girl in Africa was a prostitute, so high risk, but other than kissing, we didn't do anything, zero, not even got naked !
I was told none od these incidents require an HIV testing, as there is no, or only a theoretical risk. I really wanted to believe that but my symptoms told me otherwise: i had/ still have all the symptoms, including severe PN and generalized rash even after 11 weeks of the incident so I decided I need to test and I got the frightening news.
These are the only two incidents in the last 12-16 months, I never had unprotected vaginal or anal sex, also tested negative 3 months ago ( there was a requirement for a visa ). I can't stop thinking, this is impossible even the doctor at the clinic was puzzled. He wants to forward my case to the medical authorities for further investigations and potenitally register the case.
To add to my extraordinary case, my wife now displays ARS symptoms after we had PROTECTED sex three weeks ago, no oral sex, just kissing and protected vaginal.
I don't know what to believe anymore, I am in total shock , please help/ advise !
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Paul, I'm so sorry to hear your bad news. There are some occasions in which HIV is transmitted orally - but these occasions are few and far between. And when oral transmission of HIV does occur one often finds, in the medical literature at least, that the vector is seminal, not vaginal, fluid. So your case poses a kind of conundrum and an unfortunate one at that.
A friend of mine, a gay man, recently seroconverted because of ONE incident: he swallowed an HIV+ man's semen when he was drunk. He told me had an abscessed tooth at the time and believes the fluid "washed" over the abscessed area (?) So oral sex under the right circumstances can be an effective route for HIV transmission. At least from men to women and other men.
Have you found a decent physician in the meanwhile?
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I just; got the news that the girl in Africa I kissed is HIV positive, which means I have got this from her, just from kissing her ! I must be the unluckiest person on the face of earth, what were the chances? I think we both had open sores in the mouth, that's the only possibility. Maybe because I had a drink ( I wasn't drunk ), the saliva was not effective in stopping the virus.
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The forum moderators will tell you that kissing has zero risk and certainly all of the current literature shows that kissing doesn't transmit the virus. Saliva isn't an effective vector because the enzymes in our spit kills HIV. Still, I feel bad about the situation. I hope you get decent health care. Take care of yourself.
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Sorry, but I don't believe that story one iota.
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So wait. You found out in just the last three hours that a sex worker in Africa that you only kissed is HIV+? How in the world did you learn this? Also, just back in February (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=25673.msg320815#msg320815) you stated quite clearly that you did more than "just kiss". In fact you stated that you were drunk and that the condom possibly broke.
Sorry, but I'm a little confused with this thread.
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So you got your Elisa result's back today and they instantly confirmed it via a Westen Blot test?
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Miss Philicia,
I think you misread my previous posts, just to be clear:
1. The February 2009 testing is related to an old story that happened back 1.2 years ago and I only went and tested in Feb 2009 Result- negative, conclusive. So, old story closed
2.New story ( the new post was merged with the old one ) - In July 2009 i had within the space of two weeks, two encounters:
a. oral unprotected, giving and receiving + PROTECTED vaginal with a girl. No condom breakage noticed.
b. after two weeks of incident a. I went to Africa ( Ivory Coast ) and kissed a sex worker there. JUST KISSED HER, we didn't have any kind of sex.
I reported both incidents asking the opinion of experts, as I developed extreme symptoms that I never had before ( including very painful peripheral neuropathy towards week 11 after the incidents in July 09). I was told not to worry, no risk neither in incident a nor incident b.
So, to summarize, , tested negative in Feb 2009, tested negative ( as part of a visa process ) in July 2009 ( but before the incidents a and b ), had the incidents in mid- end July and tested positive in October. No risk situation at all between FEb 2009 and mid-end July other than the described a and b above which everyone agreed was no risk.. So still puzzled how i ended up positive.
With regards to the girls involved in incidents a and b, I traced them asked them to test and one came negative ( girl in incident a ) but the girl in Africa just told me she is positive. So the conclusion is I got infected by the girl in Africa. i only kissed
You can form your own opinion, but what on earth, given my current situation, will make me lie about what happened?
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getshorty75- many thanks for your kind words, no, I didn't find a doctor yet.
skeebo1969 - Elisa came back positive yesterday, i waited for confirmation before i posted.
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skeebo1969 - Elisa came back positive yesterday, i waited for confirmation before i posted.
Oh I see. Man that's tough... So you got your Elisa back yesterday and they did the Rapid Western Blot test which you got back today?
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Interesting story...
This is just a "shot in the dark" but, has your wife been tested for HIV?
Maybe she has it (or has had it all along?) and you got it from her?
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I'm just wondering how he got the Western Blot done so quickly. Even in the West the Western Blot is slow coming...lol :D
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Yeah, and I doubt that you, recently infected, have severe peripheral neuropathy. Unless you're diabetic, and your diabetes has been out of control for quite awhile.
I'm curious about the western blot also. How'd you get the results so fast?
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Buddy, check your "facts" / "fantasies" before you keep posting here -
So far you said you had sex with a CSW in Africa back in possibly late Dec 2007, immediately developed "symptoms" but they were then gone but allegedly came back in late 2008. You said you took a HIV test in Feb 2009 and it came back negative.
Then you came back in July 2009 telling us that you just had sex with a very "excitable" girl - no mention that whether she was a CWS or whatever, again immediately "symptoms" and you also worried about being vaccinated with a dirty needle.
Your stories are that sex with those two girls - one CSW and one not-known - were protected, though you had oral sex without using condoms.
While repeatedly being told that your "encounters" were of no risk you kept after August adding new elements, the aforementioned vaccination with possibly dirty needle, then suddenly only just early this mouth you "reported" the open mouth kissing with a CSW after your July sex encounter, at a time you were supposedly having all sort of "symptoms".
Reading back your posts and knowing your panicky nature, it's hard to believe you only waited til now to mention the third sex encounter (second with CWS). The pattern here is that you just kept adding new twists to your "narrative" (cough * fantasies * cough) and drama (and now, a wife has suddenly appeared) and they are just not adding up.
Now please do yourself some good and go seek some professional help.
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Nice detective work Komnaes!!! ;)
I've read through the "Am I Infected?" posts too and I've been thinking the same thing all along, but didn't post my thoughts b/c last time I called some joker out on the carpet, I got blasted by a "moderator" - so don't be surprised if you get a lashing from her too!
Now, I just think..."Interesting story..."
I guess if he wants to believe he got HIV from kissing, then I'll let him believe that. Still doesn't change his status and we are a support group after all.
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I hope nothing I have written there could be considered offensive...
He might as well be tested positive but the plain truth is that unless and until we have a better straight forward narrative none of us can offer any help to him if what he wants is a validation that he did indeed got it from just oral sex or even kissing, or that Ann and Andy have been giving him wrong advises or false hope, he's not going to get it.
And what difference does it make to him now?
I am just getting very annoyed even as a reader/participant in forums other than "Am I" that there are few keep trying to find fault on the advise that HIV can only be transmitted through unprotected penetrative sex, and that others (mainly oral) are just theoretical. This is not our "opinion", we don't dream it up and try to force it on folks; it's an accepted view based on science developed since the beginning of this epidemic.
If his case is really so special, and some medical professionals do think it needs further investigations, than so be it. If based on his and some other similar "reports" that someday the whole medical/science community thinks that this safe sex massage needs to be re-thought (i.e. the risk of oral sex is not just academic/theoretical), then I am sure our mods' advises will change accordingly.
Otherwise he can come in again and again with the same old I-got-it-through-oral/kissing and you guys were wrong to tell me otherwise, he'd better be prepared to get his story torn apart, especially one with some many gaps.
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Shauny (Komnaes), I totally understand how you feel. If someone's HIV+, alright. Just don't try to be holier than the rest of us degenerates by posting some lame story about how it came to be.
I totally understand your frustration. What's even more frustrating, is that the newly diagnosed person may well believe the story him (or her) self.
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I don't buy that.
Lakis
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I didn't want to go into all this, because I think there are more important things I need to take care of- finding a doctor, looking into treatment, etc.
However, I would like to respond to some of the things posted:
- never had the intention to find a fault in the advise I was given - I think all of you, especially Ann and Andy have provided tremendous help and great advise and comfort to those who find themselves worrying. And I thank you all for that, for dedicated your time in helping others go through difficult moments
- There is no reason for me to lie, I posted since July all the incidents I could think off, which could have been the reason for my never ending symptoms. Initially I only thought of the sex encounter with the first girl in July ( which wasn't a prostitute ), as it involved vaginal sex ( protected ) and oral ( unprotected ). As my symptoms worsen, I looked back at all other incidents that could lead to the current result. The only " risky " ones were the kiss with the prostitute in Africa ( initially didn't give it a thought ) and the yellow fever vaccine. That is why you will see my posts bringing new elements, even if they are " theoretical ", I wanted to describe to the moderators any other events that can influence the final result and get their opinion. Yes I am panicky, but initially I was so convinced / only thought off the sex incident that I didn't even thought off / brought into discussion the other ones ( kiss and vaccine ). That’s the only explanation for the “ gaps “ you found in my story.
- Reality is I could never explain how this happen, I am not trying to change history, I always hoped during the last three months that I would be yet another case within the well documented cases in the history / science of HIV of non transmission through oral or kissing. I guess it is tormenting for me to know what I have done and still can’t explain why I ended up positive. I am not blaming anyone, I just can’t find any logical answer that’s all.
- finally, I find the comment regarding my wife ( and suddenly a wife appeared ) offensive and I hope the author will have the decency to apologize. My wife had nothing to do with the story, I was separated from her since April ‘09 and we always used protection before, so why mentioning a wife in my “ Am I infected “ ? posts,? I wasn’t with her from April since mid of September so she is not even a theoretical risk. I mentioned her now only because I am afraid for her health, we had protected sex when we got back together in mid September.
Thank you again all for taking the time and writing a response, when all my emotions will settle a little bit, I will start taking your valuable advice on medication, doctors, professional psichological support and the social aspects of living with HIV.
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It was yesterday:
To add to my extraordinary case, my wife now displays ARS symptoms after we had PROTECTED sex three weeks ago, no oral sex, just kissing and protected vaginal.
Just now:
I wasn’t with her from April since mid of September so she is not even a theoretical risk.
So you see, the big gap here is a wife you never mentioned until now. You were with her the whole time, presumably had an active sex life, though with protection (note modified below) (at least between Feb and April, or are you going to "add" now that nothing had happened between you and your wife that two months at least). Did she ever get tested ever? If you were so worried about all those oral and protected sex with other girls why not once did you mention her? The fact is spousal transmission is more common than you think, and before you come in again saying that I am trying to offend you and your wife, no, this is not a moral judgment, just a very possible route of transmission that you never mentioned while insisting the whole time that it was from protected sex and even kissing with other women.
(modified to add this - after another reading, he never mentioned that his sex with his wife before they separated were protected, but the one time recently in September)
Any health care would have spotted than before concluding your case is special, not without testing her first. Have you also mentioned her to them?
I am not sure why you didn't see that as a possible "logical" reason - presuming that what you've said so far is truth - and that was and still is why we don't see the way you see it as "logical".
What is logical is that the whole science behind transmission tells us that the risk of oral transmission and protect penetrative is at best (or worst) extremely low and academic, and none-existence for kissing. As for the vaccine, it would have to have been administered by the nurse almost immediately sticking that needle in you right after finishing the person in front of you, which you probably would and should have noticed and one would hope that as at least an adult you would have protested.
God knows I would - so what is not "logical" to us is that none of what you have described - added in episode to heighten your "risk" - is in the category of risky. And what we see even with those few posts are gaps.
It's not even about "moral" or anything - just science - and if you confined yourself in the "Am I" section none of us would be able to step and have stepped in pointing out those gaps. If it's only about you, as a fellow HIVer, me and none of the others would ever think of tearing your story in such manner. Those forums are read by hundreds if not thousands of people regularly, worrying needlessly about those same perceived risks.
By allowing yours to stand, it opens up the whole Pandora Box as Ann, etc will be continuously challenged by anyone who has read your posts - see, that guy got it from just kissing too, while in reality we don't know what's been missing from your story, and I will stick to what I said:
If his case is really so special, and some medical professionals do think it needs further investigations, than so be it. If based on his and some other similar "reports" that someday the whole medical/science community thinks that this safe sex massage needs to be re-thought (i.e. the risk of oral sex is not just academic/theoretical), then I am sure our mods' advises will change accordingly.
Not to mention that as of Oct 8 you were still not tested:
I am preparing myself mentally for the worst when I go and test again at 13 weeks.
And now you're back with both a primarily and WB confirmation tests, with results, which the latter usually takes weeks?
Give us a break already, will you?
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My wife had nothing to do with the story, I was separated from her since April ‘09 and we always used protection before, so why mentioning a wife in my “ Am I infected “ ? posts,? I wasn’t with her from April since mid of September so she is not even a theoretical risk. I mentioned her now only because I am afraid for her health, we had protected sex when we got back together in mid September.
Now I'm really confused! ??? I suspect the main reason people are doubting your assertions is that you contradict your own story over and over again.
If your wife is not even a theoretical risk, why would you have the slightest bit of concern that she is experiencing symptoms? If what you report is true, her symptoms must be completely unrelated to HIV. [Unless of course she got it from kissing you? :o]
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I have spent the last days reading the lessons about medication and planning my life going forward and I hope I will learn as much as I can from other's experiences with medication as I will need to make my decision when to start it. I will also need to find a doctor and run the specific tests, but for some reason, I am not ready mentally to do that yet. I am confused, scared and worry about the family a lot, I feel like I need to be there for them, make sure they are OK before i can take care of myself.
Has anyone gone through this? It would really help to hear how you coped.
I would also like to respond to sdguyloveslife - why am I concerned about my wife? because the first thought I had when I got the results was - I pray to God she is Ok ! She should be OK as we only had protected sex after a long time at the end of September. However my panicky nature combined with the results of my tests make me fear any little symptom she now displays - running nose, headache, sore throat, etc. That's all it is… I think I am not the only one to worry about the partner when they get the results.
One final question for all those who had / have peripheral neuropathy- what did you do to ease it? I can't rest during the night because of the pain / burning sensation in my arms, legs and upper body ( like thousands of needles poking my body ). Other than ibupofren, is there a medicine to ease the pain?
Thank you in advance for your responses
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Wow, so it seems your fantasy has taken on the form of self-medication by using over the counter drugs?!
While PN is not uncommon among us HIVers, one-third or so, most have it as a side effect of HAART. The virus can cause PN but in most cases they happen to folks with high viral load as their infection has been left advancing and untreated for a much longer period of time. Very rarely severe PN as you have reported happens at so early a stage of infection (possibly 3 months as you have "claimed"), well, unless you've also taking been driving (typo - modified as drinking) heavily, are diabetic, have hep C and a combination of any of the above.
You really should get some professional help...
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It is highly doubtful that you have peripheral neuropathy from your HIV - your infection is far too recent and you're not on meds that might cause this condition. Others in the thread have already told you that you don't have peripheral neuropathy as well - didn't you see those responses?
Why not go to a doctor and get a proper diagnosis instead of this nonsense of "self-diagnosis from reading the internet" you've been doing so far?
Also, why are you worried about your family? Drama, drama, drama!!! You're also worrying needlessly about your wife. Drama, drama, drama!!! They're not going to "catch" your HIV unless you're having unprotected sex with them. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but as others have suggested -- you really ought to consider seeking some mental health help.
How about this...instead of using the internet to look up all these diseases and conditions and diagnosing them to yourself, why not use it to seek out a doctor and a mental health provider?
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What a messy story.
Hope your wife is negative and that you'll do fine as well.
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Komnaes, why do you have to be so aggressive and give ridiculous interpretations to what I am saying?
Who said anything about self-medication or over the counter drugs?
I only said I was reading the drug lessons on the website to educate myself on the treatment options and what is the best time to start treatment. I would like to know a little bit before I talk to the doctor and follow a particular drug regime that he/ she will recommend, especially about the side-effects and the resistance.
I never mentioned anything about self-medication or over the counter drugs, perhaps you will be kind enough to explain how you concluded I want to take over the counter drugs?!!
With regards to PN, I am not a heavy drinker, no diabetes and tested negative to hepatitis C in July, However, allow me to correct one statement you have made: there are studies that show that AIDP, a form of PN can develop during acute infection.
Finally, I am going through a really rough time and you are not helping at all by giving your own interpretations to everything I say and keep insulting me. I am looking for answers on how to cope with my new condition, the stress, etc by learning from the lessons and listening to the others who go through the same thing.
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sdguyloveslife thanks for the advice. There are studies that show that AIDP, a form of PN can appear during seroconversion. PN is diagnised based on the pacients symptoms and during the last 2-3 weeks I had severe burning / pain ( " needles " ) in my arms, legs and upper body and also severe numbness. I could not sleep during the night because of the pain and I already scheduled a visit to the neurologist.
As for the family, i dont think its crazy to think of them and hope they are OK. Why do you think its drama? I am newly diagnosed and I am just hopiing my wife is OK, we used protection, so she should be, but its human nature to still worry until you know for sure.
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Komnaes, why do you have to be so aggressive and give ridiculous interpretations to what I am saying?
Because your story is NOT credible. Let's let aside all those gaps and low risk incidents you've reported.
Why don't you enlighten us - when did you get tested? As of 7 Oct you said "it's 11 weeks since my exposure" and on 8 Oct you said "I am preparing myself mentally for the worst when I go and test again at 13 weeks". So? Today is only 16 Oct?
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There are studies that show that AIDP, a form of PN can appear during seroconversion. PN is diagnised based on the pacients symptoms and during the last 2-3 weeks I had severe burning / pain ( " needles " ) in my arms, legs and upper body and also severe numbness.
LOL!! I knew you would go out and find a "study" that proves your point!! All you've proven is that you're good at internet searches...you can do that with just about anything!!
Paul, I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I have concluded that I agree with Komnaes and the others...your story just doesn't add up. There are way too many holes and inconsistencies.
Also, I also did a little confirmatory research on my own...
Your "western blot tale" is the dead give-away. When you first go to test, they draw blood for an Elisa - test it, and when it shows up positive -- they draw blood AGAIN to do the Western blot - ensuring that it's a completely separate sample. They NEVER use the original blood sample to "confirm" a positive result!! This is Standard Protocol because if by chance the first "tube" or sample got mixed up and wasn't actually your blood, they would just be repeating the same error. Therefore, there is no medical facility or lab in the world that can give you your elisa and WB results in the fashion that you tell us they were given to you.
So, I'm sorry to say, I don't believe your story. I'm checking out...I don't wish to participate any longer in keeping this phony thread going.
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Your "western blot tale" is the dead give-away. When you first go to test, they draw blood for an Elisa - test it, and when it shows up positive -- they draw blood AGAIN to do the Western blot - ensuring that it's a completely separate sample...
That was MY trap... ;D
Oh well, might as well, he ran. Hope he does go get some help though, in whatever form that is appropriate for his "condition".
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komanes, I find this insulting, but I will respond although its not a happy memory - 12th of October at a private clinic ( I am not in / from the US ). The result came back positive, I could not believe it, I asked for a re-test / confirmation.
Re-tested again ( they told me with HIV DUO ) and the result came back positive to both tests in the HIV DUO the next day, 13th of October, they told me its conclusive. What else do you want to know?
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You just won't give up won't you.. the same pattern. So what DID you have? An ELISA and a Western Blot as you mentioned or now a whatever followed by a HIV DUO?
HIV DUO looks for antigen first so it's usually ordered within a month after reported exposure. The incident that allegedly concerned you most happened back in August, so why took a DUO test now?
So was the first test that you had?
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Paul
Welcome to the Forums. Sorry you are not exactly "feeling the love" yet. Just so you understand though, there are some reasons. You see, what you've told us so far is that you were: (1) likely infected through a very unusual set of circumstances, (2) have a very rare early onset of PN and (3) are afraid that you have infected your wife through an unlikely method of transmission.
Any one of these items would be highly unlikely and the combination seems really improbable. That doesn't mean it is impossible; but it does cause one to wonder if there might be a different explanation. And there is one that we see a lot here. That is that, when faced with a potentially positive HV test result, people can panic and go into overdrive. A recent example was a guy named Prayerblue.
Prayerblue got a false positive ELISA after some fairly improbable theories of transmission. But by the time he finally got a definitive western blot test he had 123 posts and had asked for help on about 6 different topics. Now he seemed like a nice if confused kid, and we are all happy that he tested negative in the end, but after folks respond to one or two of those panics they tend to be a little wary of further emotional investment when another poster with a potentially similar list of improbable issues comes along.
So, just as a suggestion, you might want to spend a little more time talking about your test results – exactly which tests you took, when and how you’ve interpreted the results you got back. Folks on the forums (including some of the ones who have already responded in this thread) can be very helpful in interpreting those results on the off chance you’ve overlooked something. And it might help you get a better overall response too from some of us who are holding back a bit.
Of course, you need not do anything different, this is just friendly advice.
I’m hoping that perhaps you have overlooked something. But if not there’s a lot of valuable help available on this website. It sounds like you have already found the lessons. (http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Introduction_4702.shtml) They are a great resource. Of course, the most important resource, if you are infected, is to develop a good relationship with an experienced doctor who treats a lot of HIV patients. If you need help finding a doctor (and are in the US) you might want to start by looking for members of the American Academy for HIV Medicine (directory at www.aahivm.org)
Best wishes to you
Assurbanipal
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Thank you Assurbanipal it is refreshing to see such a balanced and polite post like yours following the ones I had so far.
So lets focus on the tests ( once again I am not in / from the US, if it makes a difference ):
- I could not wait for 13 weeks, so I went to a private clinic and asked for an HIV test. told them the whole story, they told me they can do an antibody test, with results in a few hours, but it's not 100% sure as its less than 3 months post exposure. Took that, came back positive. Panicked and asked to re-test/ reconfirmation
- they told me HIV DUO is an accurate and conclusive test and it looks both for the virus in the blood and the antibodies and they would recommend that as a re-test / confirmatioon. Took that, results back positive for both.
Is this not conclusive ? Is this not the same as Elisa + Western Blot? Shall i doubt my test results?
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Paul
Others are more knowledgeable than I on testing, but ithere are certain things that do seem problematic and you should check out.
First, antibody tests (ELISA) do give false postive results. So your first test only told you that you MIGHT be infected. A follow up Western Blot is the usual confirmation test, not the DUO test.
Second, it does not take 13 weeks to get a followup Western Blot or an ELISA. The whole 13 week issue refers to how long it takes for antibodies to potentially show up in your blood after infection, not to how long the test takes. Most people that are infected have antibodies earlier anyway (at six weeks).
But at this point it's been 3 months since your last risky exposure. So the whole 13 week waiting period is moot anyway and I don't understand its relevance to you.
My understanding is that the DUO is a replacement for the ELISA test, designed to give earlier results, but not a final confirmation of status. I believe the "DUO" refers to the combination of a regular antibody test wth a p24 antigen test, which can pick up potential infection earlier. But since you already tested (potentially) positive on an the ELISA you didn't need another screening with the DUO. Instead, you need a Western Blot test.
Best wishes
A
Edited just in case the above was not clear
Is this not conclusive ? No
Is this not the same as Elisa + Western Blot? No
Shall i doubt my test results? You should get a Western Blot
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Assurbanipal, you gave me a little hope again !!!
I will go to the clinic on Monday and ask specifically for a Western Blot test. My understanding from what they explained to me was that the second test they performed is similar to Elisa and Western blot and it is conclusive ! if this is not true and there is hope, I will go and test again ! I am but confused now, could it be all a big mistake??!
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komanes, I find this insulting, but I will respond although its not a happy memory - 12th of October at a private clinic ( I am not in / from the US ). The result came back positive, I could not believe it, I asked for a re-test / confirmation.
Re-tested again ( they told me with HIV DUO ) and the result came back positive to both tests in the HIV DUO the next day, 13th of October, they told me its conclusive. What else do you want to know?
Paul,
Assurbanipal has already given you accurate answers and I just want to support what he's said.
First off, you need to find somewhere else to test, because the place you've been going to doesn't know what they're talking about.
The Duo test does NOT test for the virus itself. It test for antibodies and the p24 antigen. The p24 antigen is only present in the first couple weeks following infection. You'd know this if you ever bothered to read the Am I Infected Welcome thread like you're supposed to, and followed the testing information link provided there.
If you'd bothered to do read the Testing Lesson, you'd know that any antibody or p24 positive result MUST be followed up by a Western Blot before hiv diagnosis can be made. False positives are common with antibody tests. Conditions that can cause false positive results are pregnancy (not your problem) and underlying auto-immune diseases.
And guess what, your symptoms could well point to an auto-immune disease. So, instead of chasing an illness you could not possibly have (you haven't had a risk for hiv infection), why don't you go see a doctor, instead of an hiv testing clinic, and find out what is really wrong with you?
Until you've had a positive WB result, you are NOT considered hiv positive.
Go to a clinic that knows what they're doing and re-test. If you get another positive antibody, make SURE they follow it up with a Western Blot.
Ann
PS - you posted while I was typing. Please, do what I suggest and go to a different clinic. The one you're going to is wrong about the tests.
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ann, thanks for the advice, It is now clear what I need to do:
1. go to another clinicand re-test. I will ask for Elisa and if positive ask for Western Blot to confirm
2. Go see another doctor and find out what else might cause my symptoms.
Many thanks again for your patience and for taking the time to respond to me.
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Paul,
You're welcome and good luck with the testing.
As you are not yet confirmed as hiv positive, I'm going to merge this thread back into your original thread in Am I Infected. If you do get a positive confirmation (which I doubt), you can start a new thread in Just Tested.
Ann
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Paul,
I re-read your entire thread earlier today out of curiosity about a few things. Something struck me when I noticed you said you started having symptoms four days after your yellow fever vaccination. That got me thinking about things I've read about possible links to vaccinations in general and autoimmune problems, so I started doing a little bit of research. I found lots of things, but one of the most lay-man friendly was this:
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Yellow-Fever-Vaccination.htm
Scroll down to the "adverse reactions" section and read. You might want to make sure any doctor you see knows you started having symptoms a few days after receiving this vaccine. There might not be any link at all, but then again, there might, especially in light of the fact that autoimmune problems can cause false hiv antibody tests. I want to emphasise that I am not a doctor. I'm just giving you something to discuss with a doctor face-to-face.
And before you ask, don't freak out if you read the contraindications section. Even if you are hiv positive, this would not have anything to do with you as you would have only been recently infected. So ignore that. Besides, it's highly unlikely you've had anything other than a false positive as you had no risk.
Ann
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Many thanks Ann, I will definetely mention this to the doctor. I hope you meant " other than a false positive " in your post :) ( not a false negative )
I also thought of the yellow fever vaccine and also the Ofloxacin pills I took for two weeks in August but my " auto-immune " disease symptoms ( mainly neuropathy) developed 2 months after takiing the vaccine and one month after taking Oxoflacin. there is still a therotical possibility and I will discuss it the doctor.
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Paul,
Sorry, I did mean false positive. I usually catch when I do that before I post.
It could still be an underlying autoimmune problem even without the vaccine. Some can have intermittent symptoms... and you were having unexplained symptoms earlier this year. You wouldn't be the first here to have a false positive due to an undiagnosed autoimmune problem. And sometimes, false positives just happen. Who knows, with the ignorance that clinic has shown about how to confirm a positive result, maybe they were reading the tests wrong. It wouldn't surprise me.
Hang in there an find a new testing center.
Ann
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Oh, and by the way, one of the case studies I read today concerned a young man who didn't start having problems until quite a few weeks after his YEL jab. Please don't ask me to dig it back up for you... my head was spinning by the time I got through all the links.
Ann
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Thank you Ann for taking your time to look into this, it's really touching.
There are many possible causes for what I am going through, I will take it step by step, HIV re-testing is the first thing I will do ( this time with Elisa and Western Blot ).
Regardless of the outcome, you, Andy and other people on this site have been wonderful and patient with me, thank you all for everything.
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Paul,
I have to admit I was kinda irritated with you during your time in Just Tested - for the same reasons others were irritated with you (and that's why I was staying out of that thread). However, I understand now that you were given incorrect information by incompetent people, so I feel a little more compassion for you.
Good luck with the new testing center and good luck with the testing.
Ann
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Paul
I see that you posted a question to my last post, but that Ann addressed your concerns. So I just wanted to log on and wish you well.
Reading the whole combined thread it does seem quite unlikely you have any HIV infection. But do remember to stay safe in the future.
Best wishes
A
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Thanks Assurbanipal,
Re-tested again today at a different clinic, insisted for the " classical " Elisa test, will go an pick up the results in two days. I explained to the doctor the whole history,the symptoms, etc, he said we should wait for the test results. He didn't give me much hope for a good result unfortunatelly... He explained to me that a Western Blot will be done if this comes back positive.
So this time, the proper procedure should be followed. I am going mad, but I cannot do anything else other than wait. Thank you for your encouraging words and the time spent to respond to me.Regardless of the outcome, I will allways appreciate what you guys have done for me in the last months.
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Paul,
Thank goodness you found a doctor who knows about the need for a Western Blot! I understand you're in a country that probably doesn't have a lot of hands-on experience with hiv, but it's still really no excuse for the ignorance you've previously encountered when testing. Diagnostic tests should be common knowledge amongst medical practitioners, no matter what the prevalence is of the illness being tested for. Especially when it comes to something like hiv testing. It isn't exactly rocket science, after all!
I suspect this doctor also has some ignorance surrounding hiv transmission (because he should have recognised you had no risk) but at least he knows the testing procedure. If you get another positive antibody and it's disproved by the WB, please do make sure you're investigated for a possible autoimmune problem.
Keep us posted.
Ann
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Thanks Ann,
the doc also ordered tests for syphilis, gonorhhea and chlamydia. We had a long chat, he mentioned that if any of these were present than it could have increased the risk of HIV transmission. In other words a combo of syphilis and HIV in an infected person, might increase the risk of HIV trasnmission to another individual. I am not going to comment on this, just what he told me. We will wait and see.
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im sorry ann for posting here... but is this really possible??? whatever happened here????
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im sorry ann for posting here... but is this really possible??? whatever happened here????
Only those Moderators and members who are authorized to answer questions in the Am I Infected? forum are permitted do so. Unauthorized responses may be deleted without permission of the poster. Repeatedly posting replies of this nature may result in a Time Out or permanent ban, at the discretion of the Moderator Team.
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I was also keenly following this story. I notice that the last login date from Paul was Nov 24 while his last post regarding collecting results was October 18th.
Hopefully everything turned out well for Paul and his HIV tests results were proven to be negative.
Im guessing if they were positive he would have confirmed this to us.
Sorry Rod for replying. As you can imagine its a interesting thread for worried folk with similar risks.
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I was also keenly following this story. I notice that the last login date from Paul was Nov 24 while his last post regarding collecting results was October 18th.
Hopefully everything turned out well for Paul and his HIV tests results were proven to be negative.
Im guessing if they were positive he would have confirmed this to us.
Sorry Rod for replying. As you can imagine its a interesting thread for worried folk with similar risks.
No sorry to it. Did you think you were special? Read the posting guidelines of this form.
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Alan, you need to follow the rules of this site. Only those who are authorized to do so are permitted to write in threads of other members. You need to stick to your own thread.
Not doing so can get you Time Out or even banned. Please take note and don't do it again.
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Hi, is there a chance I can talk to you Pour, can anybody tell me how can I reach this guy, I have a very similar story with him I wanted to contact him,
I would highly appreciate ur help..
All the best
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Hi, is there a chance I can talk to you Pour, can anybody tell me how can I reach this guy, I have a very similar story with him I wanted to contact him,
I would highly appreciate ur help..
All the best
So you decide to post directly under a post where one of our moderators has just admonished another member that they are not authorised to reply to any thread but their own?
If you have questions about hiv transmission or testing, create and ask them in your own thread.
And make sure you read our posting guidelines - and abide by them - before you post anything else.
Ann