Life's burning question - to suck or not to suck

[AtomicA]

I'm hoping someone can help me out with the whole +/- relationship thing. I'll be honest, I'm not positive because I was some unlucky cherub who's roulette wheel happened to call my number one snowy afternoon... I use to have sex. Lots and lots of sex. After I tested positive nearly 2 years ago however, I pretty much stopped. Since then I've had sex a whopping three times - never in the same city as I live cuz I'm all about disclosing and that way if he freaks he can't run off and tell every homo that's ever had a bad thought about me. I guess maybe the idea of infecting someone else scares me more than the idea of becoming infected myself ever did. Anyway, now that I'm on meds and the VL is undetectable and I feel WAY better (if not markedly less intelligent, thank you sustiva) I've decided to try the dating game. I've even met an AMAZING guy who seems to think the sun rises and sets just for me. Well he's negative and I want to keep it that way but I have been getting so much conflicting information. How safe is oral sex? The STD doc I use to see and the guy who diagnosed me told me that it was pretty much no risk for my partner. My first HIV doc told me that she had patients who claimed to have gotten it only from oral sex but that it had never been confirmed, my second doc told me it's never been transmitted that way so long as I don't cum in his mouth and the nurse at the HIV clinic here said I may as well be cumming in his ass if he gives me head. Then I saw some threads on here about guys who've gotten it from oral sex only. Both me and my potential partner are pretty confused as to what risk there really is and does my VL being undetectable in any way decrease the risk I pose to him? The idea of gettig head with a condom on really does not appeal to me at all...

[RevMC]

I've heard the same things.  From what I remeber, if you ejaculate while he's doing the deed and he has bleeding gums then he's at risk.  Some say that the stomach acids kill the virus if they swallow.  Some say that the HIV is in any pre-   not sure of that part though.

I for one do not like using condoms for any reason.  I've never been able to feeel anything with one on.  I've had neg partners who have done the deed and I've made them stop before the point of no return and did not allow them to lick or anything like that.  Didn't want to take a chance.

Not sure if this helps or not, thought I'd add my 2 cents here and help keep this thread closer to the top so you can get more input without the thread being lost on another page.

Love and Light,

Rev. Michael

[poet]

Hi Atomic.  I guess you found the thread in which we were talking this through recently?  Officially, from what I remember on the National Aids Hotline as an information specialist, the Rev.'s take is what we were telling people since the beginning.  You and everyone else are getting mixed signals because, in my opinion, there is the possiblity but not the likelihood, so anyone counseling feels compelled to give a mixed message as well.  There is even research suggesting that hiv suppressed by medications is less likely to infect.  For studies to say that oral sex HAD to be the cause of infection, researchers would have to have locked someone somewhere and monitored every sexual interaction until infection which doesn't happen in the real world.

But, again in my opinion, it is for your hiv negative partner to work his way through to his decision on this, which he may revise and revise and revise and for the two of you to 'negotiate' what your boundaries will be, again with the right for either or both of you to revise/renegotiate things.  Win

[Eldon]

Hey AtomicA,

I agree with Rev & Poet. There is a posibility but not the likelyhood of him becoming infected. Just as Poet has mentioned, you both will want to set your boundaries through your negotiations.

There is a lot of mixed signals concerning this very topic.


Make the BEST of each Day!

[manchesteruk]

There are people who know a lot more about this than me but from what i've read and heard the risks or oral sex are minimal and cases of infection by oral sex are very rare.  I'm sure someone will come along with actual evidence to prove this instead of me just making assumptions!

[Ann]

Hi Atomic, welcome to the forums.

I'll tell you the same as I tell people over in the Am I Infected forum.

There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us two things. One, condoms are very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission. Two, oral sex is much lower risk than previously believed. We now have the evidence that oral sex is a very low risk activity where hiv transmission is concerned.

The thing with the reports of people being infected through giving blowjobs is just that - they are reports, not documented case studies that have been proven through genotype (or is it phenotype?) testing. Patient reports are notoriously unreliable for various reasons.

Your undetectable viral load (by the way, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the fact that the seminal viral load may be detectable despite serum viral load being undetectable) reduces the risk considerably. Another factor to take into account is your partner's oral health. If his mouth is in tip-top condition, this helps as well. Saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect, so plenty of spit helps too. If you are also avoiding ejaculating in his mouth, this again reduces risk.

You two will have to weigh everything up carefully and decide where your comfort levels lie.

And by the way, you can suck him to your heart's content without worry. You will NOT infect him this way.

You both might like to read through the condom and lube links in my signature line. Condoms have been proven to prevent hiv transmission, provided they are used correctly and consistently. A correctly used condom rarely breaks. They don't have to be a passion killer either. With a little imagination, they can be incorporated into your foreplay and they can actually be quite erotic - with a little imagination.

Good luck!

Ann

[anniebc]

Hi Atomic

I can't really add any more than what the guys have already told you, although some say it is possible to become infected through oral sex the risk is much much lower than unprotected sex.

While giving oral to a man a partner could become infected if infected semen got into any cuts, sores or bleeding gums..but if your partner has no dental hygiene problems then I see no real risk...in fact the risk, as I believe, is extremely low..but you have to do what you think is right and with what you are comfortable with...just my 2 cents worth.

Hugs
Jan

[newt]

While I respect the sage and correct advice given by others, I do have to say, SUCK FOR FUCK'S SAKE, life's too short to be bored for practically 0 risk.  Esp. closer to 0 than 0, since you have an undetectable viral load and heavily treated, kinda beaten and weary, measly viral population.

Life is supposed to fun n intimate and there's a trade off with risk, even getting in a car to go to the beach eh?

- matt "never met a man who gave head with a rubber" the newt

[Robert]

Newt's is absoltely right.  Life is too short.  Suck to your heart's content.

robert

[RevMC]

Have to add another comment here.

Like Newt said Suck for Fucks Sake.  Life truly is too short, use your imagination during sex and have one hell of a good time!!  We found it quite intriguing to hook up the camcorder to the t.v. and record when we were having sex, what a turn on that was to watch yourself, occassionally, and then re-watch it again.

Point being, be creative.

Now if only I can find someone to suck for fucks sake  <BEG>

Love and Light,
Rev. Michael

[Queen Tokelove]

I suck at sucking....

[Teresa]

Atomic,

My hubby is HIV+ and Im negative. The Dr. told us that if I performed oral on hubby that it was a low risk. She suggested that if I did we should use a condom, but it was up to me as to what I was comfortable doing.

Its up to your friend if he wants to take the risk (even if its a low risk). It might be a good idea to have him read this thread or the lessons here.

Hugs
Teresa

[RobT]

Atomic-
I know that I get confused over the mixed signals as well. When my partner initially found out about my diagnosis, he wanted to play; but as safe as possible. This meant wrapping everything in plastic. I know that the thought of sucking w/ the wonderful aftertaste of rubber and non-oxidil9 is ever so appealing, it disgusts me. I did make a promise to my man that whatever we do together, it will b as safe as possible. I do not want to chance possibly infecting him w/ even the most minimal amt of risk. Minumum risk does not equal NO risk. Giving in simply for the appreciation of my unprotective sex days, just for the 'intimacy' is not worth it in my book. I want to keep my man as safe as possible.
I know that I am making a sacrrifice here just to please him, but I want him to never go thru the trauma that I initially went thru when I received my diagnosis- I do not ever wish that to happen to any1 else.

RobT