Undetectable.

[Poppy33]

Is this possible? 6 weeks ago I tested positive. Tcell ct 277 VL 109,996
After taking stribild for 3 weeks my tcell ct is 875 & my VL is 51
Doctor says I'm undetectable by weeks end. I really had a hard time this past month just as I'm sure many others have when diagnosed as positive. My anxiety level was thru the roof. Uncontrollably insane. I wanted to just give up as of yesterday. Today I feel like I can breathe a little better. Can anyone tell me what to expect next? Emotionally? Physically? Right now I am so physically and mentally drained, but feeling happy. I can't stop crying. I been crying all month, but today I thinks it's tears of joy.

[leatherman]

what you can expect is to live a "normal" life span, so make sure to properly prepare for supporting yourself when retirement time rolls around.    

[Poppy33]

Blushing...... Thank u. I hope so.

[zach]

i love UD posts

you're doing great, hold fast and stay the course!

[Ann]

Hi Poppy, welcome to the forums.

Is this possible? 6 weeks ago I tested positive. Tcell ct 277 VL 109,996
After taking stribild for 3 weeks my tcell ct is 875 & my VL is 51
Doctor says I'm undetectable by weeks end.
 

Of course it's possible. I looked at your posting history and you don't give any indication of your testing or risk factor history, but going UD so quickly is usually seen when the patient is dealing with a very new infection when they start treatment.

Explanation: In the first few weeks/months of infection, the VL is typically very high (not always, but usually). The person's body begins to mount a defence against the hiv, and sometime between a month and a year (everyone's different) the body will bring the VL down to numbers usually somewhere in the 20,000 to 50,000-ish range. (Again, everyone's different, I'm giving you a loose guideline.)

So what this means is that when a person is newly infected and starts meds, the body is also doing part of the work - as it would anyway - and the VL plummets to UD within weeks. There's also other factors at play here (such as less virus in the reservoirs), but that's the basics.

This is as opposed to someone who has been poz and untreated for years. There comes a time when their body can no longer mount such a strong defence against hiv, and so once again the VL rises to high numbers such as those seen in early infection. When someone starts meds this late in the game, it can take months to become UD.

You've also had an excellent CD4 recovery. If you had been someone who had untreated hiv for years, not only would it have taken longer for you to reach UD, you may have also struggled for quite some time to get your CD4 levels back up to normal levels.

The early days of hiv diagnosis are a rollercoaster of emotions for anyone, but this does get better in time. You're still very new to all this, so cut yourself some slack. You're doing what's most important - taking your meds - and sometime before the year's out you'll probably wonder what all the fuss was about.

As I said, it looks like you discovered your infection very early on which means you started treatment early, and so physically you really shouldn't have much trouble. It can take time for your body to adjust to the meds, so try to relax and give your body the time it needs. Don't make it harder for your body to adjust by being uptight all the time. Relax!

You're going to be just fine. OK?

Ann

[leatherman]

Explanation: In the first few weeks/months of infection, the VL is typically very high (not always, but usually). The person's body begins to mount a defence against the hiv, and sometime between a month and a year (everyone's different) the body will bring the VL down to numbers usually somewhere in the 20,000 to 50,000-ish range. (Again, everyone's different, I'm giving you a loose guideline.)

This is as opposed to someone who has been poz and untreated for years. There comes a time when their body can no longer mount such a strong defence against hiv, and so once again the VL rises to high numbers such as those seen in early infection. When someone starts meds this late in the game, it can take months to become UD.

you know I have the chart for that, Ann



and here's a chart of how taking meds has potentially adjusted the chart for you Poppy

[initforlife]

YAY Poppy! Great news for sure!

[Poppy33]

Thank you ann for ur response. I'm not sure I understand that chart. Is 875 cd4 too high? What should it be?  When I was admitted to the hospital I was admitted for having syphilis. I was told that's why my #'s were all screwed up. I had a moment where I thought maybe they diagnosed me all wrong because I was so sick when they diagnosed me. I'm confused. I won't see my doctor until August 11. I only know my #'s because the wonderful pharmacist at the hospital snooped around for me. Lol. I love her. She's been such a big support me. I built a istayhealthy chart but I'm not sure how to include it in this post. I hate taking the meds. I always have a freaking headache!!!! 27 days today.

[leatherman]

Thank you ann for ur response. I'm not sure I understand that chart. Is 875 cd4 too high? What should it be?

umm, i cannot foresee or predict your future* so that graph is simply a representation of what you could experience. Clearly with the information you have provided, your cd4 line and viral line are moving in the right directions. So, WooHoo! Don't look for trouble. Things are going very very well for you.

See the chart in my signature line? see how crazy the graph is through more than a decade? That's when I was very sick with AIDS, in the hospital numerous times, on all types of early meds, and having all sorts of resistance issues. See when my two lines, cd4s and VL, split with the cd4s going up then holding steady and the viral load going down and holding steady? That's what happened when finally better meds arrived! you didn't even have to suffer through AIDS and then onto meds before your lines split and moved apart to "normal".

really you were just supposed to pay attention to what Ann was talking about in the first 3 months or so of infection. A viral load skyrockets upon infection and then drops... before waiting for years for things to go south. You started meds probably right along the time line when your viral load would have been dropping - and that's why you noticed such a drastic change so quickly. You hit HIV hard and heavy at the very start and in the long run will be very good because you preserved a lot of your immune system.

Normal cd4s? Anywhere from 400-1500 or thereabouts. Where should your count be? that all depends on your genetics. here's the rub. I bet, like probably every other HIV poz person, I bet you never had a cd4 count done BEFORE you were poz. So unfortunately, you will never know exactly what your pre-HIV normal was.

But don't worry, it's not about how many you have; but how well they work. Some of us have had cd4s under 350 for yrs and yrs and are rarely sick with anything; while some people have cd4s over 1000 and deal with a lot of health issues.

there's a lot more CD4 info in a previous thread (Question about CD4 counts....), and there's another link there to yet another post with a LOT of cd4 info.



*boy do I wish I could foresee the future though. I would have skipped the sex that got me infected  ; I would have known not to force Jim to live through those 60 days of hell in the hospital ; and the other day I would have known that these SC consumers (fellow pozzies) were not going to elect me Consumer Committee Chair - even though I was the only one running.

[Poppy33]

Wow. I viewed ur chart. You are an inspiration to me now. Thank u for ur response. Thank you so much. I am slowly but surely learning everyday. This last month has been very hard, but I think I am coming to grips. Most of the time my mind is all over the place. Feeling Sad, anxious, mad & scared more than anything..also, confused about a lot of information out there.  Some peoples stories help & others just scare the shit out of me.

[Poppy33]

Just so u know. I don't really feel sick in any way. I just have a constant headache that I'm sure is from the meds. I feel more anxiety than anything else. My mind plays tricks on me. All day long. Where it's getting a lot better it's still lingering enough to damper my spirit.  I lost a shit load of weight do to being sick with the syphilis, and then more with the constant panic attacks. In the last few day my appetite has come back and I gain 3 pounds.  I really want yo have a drink, but I'm scared with taking the meds. Ahhh how I can taste a corona right now.

[leatherman]

This last month has been very hard, but I think I am coming to grips.

it's all crazy, sad, troubling, and just generally f*ed up at the beginning. In time, things will be better. You'll put HIV into it's place in your life and move on with the new life you have now. The good thing is that in this day and age, the meds are awesome and outcomes are good

don't be confused about the information. Check out the lessons section here!
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Introduction_4702.shtml

Ahhh how I can taste a corona right now.

I was drinking Coronas (w lime, of course!) just this afternoon. I don't know what other meds you might be on; but your HIV meds aren't affected by alcohol. Drink in moderation; and don't drink and drive.

[Poppy33]

Lol. I tried a coors light last week. It made more dizzy than anything else. I got nervous and said fuck it! I'm not drinking. Any suggestions for this damn headache? How long will it last? My entire life? It doesn't go away. I see my doc in August. I was wondering what he's gonna say. I really don't want to consider switching meds. Too much anxiety goes into taking this one. Lol

[Poppy33]

I'm also only on one med. stribild. Once a day.

[Ann]

I'm also only on one med. stribild. Once a day.

You are on FOUR meds a day. Stribild consists of elvitegravir + cobicistat + tenofovir + emtricitabine. You can read about Stribild here.

While it may be Stribild causing your headaches, it is also very possible that it's stress causing them, or a combination of the two. If they continue, talk to your doctor about it. There are other med combos available.

[absopozilutely]

Hi Poppy, I'm on Stribild as well, headaches can be caused by it, but really any side effect is pretty rare now a days. As Ann said talk to the doctor and let them know you're getting headaches, do give your body some time to adjust to the meds, usually a week at most. You keep making comments in your posts about if things are going to be for the rest of your life, etc. look, you're going to have a long, probably happy, life. Your quality of life will probably not differ much from what it is now, other then the fact that we will get old. This isn't what it used to be, just a new chapter of our lives. I look forward to many more years of posting with you!

Abso!

[Poppy33]

Thanks abso. It's just all new to me. I may be a little depressed. Still trying to digest it all. Like I mentioned. The meds really mess with my mind. I'm always tired too. I see my doc on August 11. I have a list of questions for him. This site has been really helpful.

[leatherman]

I have a list of questions for him

having a list is always an excellent move when visiting a doctor. It says in a subtle way that you care enough about your situation to ensure that those issues get discussed. It can influence a doctor to care more about you - because you care about you.  Twenty-two years under treatment of an Infectious Disease doctor, twenty-two year of medications and lab work and I always go to the doctor with list in hand. Even when I don't have any issues or questions, my list at least has my last labwork listed for comparison.

[drewm]

Congrats on the U.D.!

[Since1993]

When your immune system is suppressed, then suddenly awakened after the initiation of HAART, there is the potential of physical problems associated with the overreaction of a newly awakened immune system for several weeks to months.  Underlying inflammatory-related illnesses can occur along with a host of other problems until the body has adjusted to its new "normal" immune response post HAART.  It comes with the territory.  They treat the symptoms and move forward.

Psychologically-speaking, if you were prone to depression/anxiety pre-HAART, physicians will take that into consideration before prescribing a HAART like Atripla because it can exacerbate underlying depression.  It is perfectly normal to go through a psychological adjustment period post-HAART initiation, which can be fueled by physical problems and/or the medications you are taking.  It is very important that if you begin to experience depression, anxiety or persistent thoughts of death and/or suicide that you immediately contact your physician and/or go to the emergency room. 

[Since1993]

This is as opposed to someone who has been poz and untreated for years. There comes a time when their body can no longer mount such a strong defence against hiv, and so once again the VL rises to high numbers such as those seen in early infection. When someone starts meds this late in the game, it can take months to become UD.

You've also had an excellent CD4 recovery. If you had been someone who had untreated hiv for years, not only would it have taken longer for you to reach UD, you may have also struggled for quite some time to get your CD4 levels back up to normal levels.

17 years untreated, 120,000 VL, 25 CD4 count.

It only took 7 weeks on Atripla to become undetectable and 1 1/2 years to get CD4 count > 200.  Becoming undetectable is much easier than recovering CD4 count in later stage HIV infection.

[Poppy33]

Thank you so much. I am unaware of how long I had the virus before getting diagnosed. I still wonder, can my cd4 still go up higher? What are the chances of that?

[Jeff G]

Thank you so much. I am unaware of how long I had the virus before getting diagnosed. I still wonder, can my cd4 still go up higher? What are the chances of that?

It is a certainty that in time you will see an increase in your CD4 count ... undetectable is the first goal and then all else will fall into place in time . You are doing great !

[Poppy33]

Going to send doctor for first lab results tomorrow. Wish me luck!!

[leatherman]

first??

Best wishes!

[Poppy33]

Yes it was my first lab work don't after dx. Everything seems good. Re-test sept 9
Thank you for the best wishes.

[Poppy33]

Yes it was my first lab work don't after dx. Everything seems good. Re-test sept 9
Thank you for the best wishes.

[JustSmile01]

Just have to say CONGRATULATIONS! Recently found out that I am also UD after one month. Love this thread

[Poppy33]

Unfortunately my second test was not UD. My cd4 jumped up pretty high from 874 to 1275. My viral load went from UD to 89. I was sick with a cold for a week and the doc says that could be what prompted it to go up. I'm going back in two weeks for a retest. Wish me luck.

[JustSmile01]

That is true actually. I've heard that testing when sick is not good because the results are not really accurate. Having your cD 4 count jump like that is a huge leap plus I've heard that under 100 is still considered UD to most standards. A small jump isn't much to be worried about. If the VL was high then that would prompt them to look into a different medicine.

[leatherman]

Unfortunately my second test was not UD. ....My viral load went from UD to 89.

cd4s counts and viral load count are not necessarily straight-line functions. they can bounce around by small amounts before a person settles into UD. Besides ONE test means nothing! Your body and its functions are always in flux, so it is all about the trend of at least three tests taken over 6-wks to 6 months of time.

a VL of 89 means absolutely nothing. Five years ago anything >500 was called "UD".  nowadays if your count is under 100, that's close enough. if your viral load ever bumps up to say 1500, 2500, or something, you might have something to worry a little about and need to keep an eye on it.

I would also point out that UD doesn't mean "no hiv". it means the Hiv viral load is so low that it's too hard/tiny to count. Our HIV never actually reaches "0" because we have reservoirs of hiv that stay hidden. Periodically these reservoirs can "spill over" dumping HIV back into our systems. Our HAART acts like PEP and PrEP and takes care of the HIV but if you were unlucky enough to have a blood test done that day - then you would see a detectable viral load. The cold you had did impact your test. Your immune system was busy fighting, hence the jump up in your cd4 count. So whatever you do don't be surprised when it's back down again next time, because if you're not still sick at that time, then your immune system shouldn't be working so hard.

the gist of all this is: a cd4 of 1275 and vl of 89 is freaking awesome and you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

[Poppy33]

Thank you guys for the reassurance. It is much appreciated.