POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: tc400 on April 29, 2009, 10:03:44 pm
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hey guys... So I guess my story is very common, as my therapist told me. I was diagnosed with HIV four years ago, doing very well, on meds, no side effects whatsoever, feeling very good almost every day. For one year after my diagnosis, I almost never had sex, just wasn't feeling it. I started having sex again without disclosing my status, mostly with (supposedly) HIV neg men who were practicing safe sex. Then, almost two years ago, I decided it was unfair, and started disclosing my status. And the nightmare starts... I have met dozens of HIV+ guys, who basically assume we will have unprotected sex. Most of them know the risks, but guys are still unwilling to practice safe sex. Three months ago: wake up call: the local gay clinic called me because I had been listed as a sex partner with somebody who was infected with Syphilis and Hep C. I was OK though. How do you deal with this guys? I don't believe in re-infection. But Hep C scared the hell out of me! Should my only choice be 1. Heaving unsafe sex or 2. have no sex at all...?
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Syphilis isn't so much fun either. Trust me.
Condoms suck. They really do. I barebacked for years. Like you, I think that reinfection is a strawman. But, the other risks are quite real.
While I still don't particularly like condoms; I've decided to mitigate my risk by involving myself in what I hope is a monogamous relationship. Nothing is foolproof, but it's a lot easier than little white spots all over your body, a drippy dick, or yellow droopy eyes.
Anyway, that's just my strategy. Life is full of risks. Nothing is perfect. You will drive yourself crazy if you think that your choices are as black and white as "no sex" vs "use condoms 100% of the time". Use your head. Trust your instincts. And, think about whether what you're doing at the moment is the best choice for you.
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I trust you. Let's say that - at least - it's curable. I have not met a single hiv poz guy who practices safe sex... i am even wondering if that exists...
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A 3. option would be to look further until you find someone who wants to have safe sex too.
I mean, you could not be the only gay male to want safe sex in the whole world,or do you?
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I trust you. Let's say that - at least - it's curable. I have not met a single hiv poz guy who practices safe sex... i am even wondering if that exists...
I only practice safe sex and all my life only practiced safe sex (i.e use condoms). I fell in love with someone and for the first time in my life decided it would be OK to not use condoms, I thought he was being safe outside of the relationship and he was not. Lo and behold, that's how I got HIV. Woo hoo@! At 46 it's the only regret of my entire life, having let my guard down with the condom thing. ("If I could turn back time," thank you, Cher, you have no idea how I wish I could turn back time).
I honestly don't get why it's such a big deal to feel a bare cock in your ass or to feel a bare ass on your cock. I always loved sex with condoms and whether topping or bottoming, had no problems as far as sensation, etc. At the risk of offending all of you avowed barebackers I think it's disgusting other than in either a monogamous relationship or in one in which both parties agree to only bareback within the relationship and to always use condoms with everyone else (the kind I was under the impression I was in before I had a rude awakening).
Now that I am poz I will continue to only use condoms, I'm used to them, having used them all my life.
Was it worth it to have barebacked with my partner to now have to have deal with this hopefully manageable chronic disease for which there is no cure? The answer to that would be an emphatic NO.
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No bareback for me, I had unprotected sex only once in my life and I learned my lesson.
I have never been promiscuous (6 partners in 12 years of sexual activity, according
to World Health Organization promiscuous is everyone with more than 2 sexual partners per year),
but I just wasn't lucky. I was at the party and got drunk and the guy didn't use the condom :(
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I do believe in reinfection (be it with the same strain or other strain or even other species [egHIV2] of the virus). Even more important are other STD you might get like syphilis, hepatitis B&C, HPV infections, herpes and so on.
You can see various strains of HIV here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/HIV-SIV-phylogenetic-tree.png
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I trust you. Let's say that - at least - it's curable. I have not met a single hiv poz guy who practices safe sex... i am even wondering if that exists...
Not in my experience. People give it a lot of lip service, but I've never had another poz guy want to use a condom. Not once in the 13 years I've been poz.
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These threads are always funny to me. So many guys post that they always use a condom. That doesn't seem to match the reality of any of the HIV+ guys I know in person. Then, we have the re-infection (or super-infection) fears, which, if true, would leave most of the HIV+ guys I know resistant to just about every antiretroviral there is. The fact is, in my experience, I've never known an HIV+ guy to use a condom (except with an HIV- partner) and don't know of any experiencing major treatment failure. To each his (or her) own.
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InchlingBlue... took the words from my mouth... I do not want tobe exposed to other nasties ... my health is going way to good and I want to keep it that way! but, if I were in a monogamous relationship... it would be an informed decision between my partner and myself.... otherwise playing unsafe if for others and not for me. Most men are D...A's and take too many risk HIV and or not...
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These threads are always funny to me. So many guys post that they always use a condom.
But they do, in the pretend world of politically correct safe sex propaganda. Yes, people should be using condoms, but they don't. In fact, on average, when a negative guy finds out you're poz, more often than not, they will ask if you're on meds and then ask if he can fuck you raw. I've actually had poz guys tell me that the one silver lining about being poz is that they don't have to worry about using a condom. It happens ALL THE TIME. In fact, I think I would probably post it here if I met a another poz guy for a hookup that wanted to use a condom.
The facts are that it is risky to bareback other poz guys, not because of superinfection, but because of other diseases like hep, herp or syph.
The best advice on this issue in my rarely humble opinion is for each person to make the decision that feels right to them, knowing full well what the risks are. For two adults who are poz to decide to have unprotected sex, while it might appear to many to be a bad decision, is, in the end, their decision.
i
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In fact, on average, when a negative guy finds out you're poz, more often than not, they will ask if you're on meds and then ask if he can fuck you raw.
Surprise, that "negative" guy is likely actually poz!
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I honestly don't get why it's such a big deal to feel a bare cock in your ass or to feel a bare ass on your cock. I always loved sex with condoms and whether topping or bottoming, had no problems as far as sensation, etc.
I never thought there was a huge difference in feeling. Its actually the symbolism of protected vers unprotected that is exciting or fulfilling or dangerous or full of meaning in a relationship, etc etc etc.
I am having same problem finding HIV+ who will have safe sex. But, I AM SURE the real problem is casual versus relationship sex. I mean, if you are going to build a relationship with someone, including sex, I think your partner would be will to compromise and cover his dick, all things great considered, its a small thing to give up.
NOBODY said HIV+ people have all the options of HIV- people. In other words, tough cookies. If you want to be HIV+ and have safe sex, find a HIV- partner who will certainly want that as well. Or an HIV+ who will compromise. The supermarket has, thus, turned into a specialty boutique with many less products. But, the quality has gone up. There is nothing you can do, can't turn back the clock!
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Of course, if the sex was happening in a relationship with somebody I cared for, who really cared for me, I am sure protected sex would not be an issue. I am really talking about casual sex. In response to posts:
1. I just learnt that I am SUPER promiscuous (I go way beyond 2 sex partners per year - I may even hit 10 or 15 on my best years, and I thought I was a prude!)
2. Superinfection does not exist guys. My doctor - who is also a dear friend - is very aware of the double discourse his colleagues have. Behind closed doors, they all know it's fairly rare! But they DO freak patients out about it. The very rare cases of superinfection that have happened in the past occurred under specific circumstances (i.e. both partners are not on meds, viral load very high, sex parties...). If you are on meds, it is almost impossible to be reinfected with a different strain of HIV1 virus (because we have antibodies AND meds are also protecting us). Reinfection with the HIV2 virus is however possible, but this virus is rare in the US/Europe. In other words, ask your doctors to provide you with the medical literature on the topic. You'll be surprised!
3. I know for a fact that many Top guys into bareback are negative and are ONLY fucking pozzies as long as they are on MEDS. A buddy of mine does that. I saw his test results: he is NEG. Sometimes he even fakes to be poz just to bareback with poz guys! Either he is fucked up, or he is ahead on his time? Who knows if in ten years from now a study will confirm that guys on meds are indeed NOT infectious at all (my belief)? I certainly don't encourage NEG guys to have unprotected sex of course.
4. What's the deal with HEP C? When my health clinic called me to tell me that I had been listed as a sex partner for someone who had tested for Syph and HEP C, they assured me that HEP C was not transmitted through unprotected sex. That was an STD specialist at gay clinic... He would know right? What's the experiences of people out there? Is that another 'scare' created to control the sexuality of HIV positive people? From what I understand, it is a blood-borne disease and therefore only contracted though blood contact. Considering the stigma associated with IV drugs (main transmission route), I wonder if some people are just not very willing to disclose the fact that they are drug users to their physician. It seems that fisting increases the chances of getting it logically... I really don't know what to think. Again, I am scared of it crazy. This is really the scariest of all infections on the list I think... The treatment seems really dreadful.
5. Apparently condoms DO NOT protect entirely against Herpes and Syphilis, according again to the STD specialist.
6. Another concern of mine: it seems that most HIV poz guys I meet like it "piggy"... LOL. No problem with that at all. But I don't NEED it piggy all the time. Some are really really unhibited, which is good, but I personally feel at odds with it sometimes.
Anyway, I am rambling. Thanks guys for your post. I guess this is just the very typical story of an HIV + guy getting his grove back and dealing with issues surrounding the infection... Thanks!
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Are we all referring to "on line" hook ups in this thread or "otherwise/real world/non-bathhouse"?
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Anyway, I am rambling. Thanks guys for your post. I guess this is just the very typical story of an HIV + guy getting his grove back and dealing with issues surrounding the infection... Thanks!
Did somebody steal your orchard? ;) Just kidding. The experiences you mentioned in your last post are very similar to mine.
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I never thought there was a huge difference in feeling.
This has to be one of the sillier things I've read on this website in quite awhile. Of course it feels better without a rubber that's why everyone in barebacking! :) Apart from condoms being "a moment killer" the fact that barebacking feels better is the major reason guys don't wanna use them. If it felt the same why not just slap one on?
That is one on the major obstacles for safe sex programs. All the reasoning and education in the world can't change the way it feels to bareback. No matter how dangerous it may be to bareback the boys are gonna still want that feeling.
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Folks keep forgetting that the biggest sex organ, so to speak, is not their cocks but their brains. If my brain tells me that it feels better without the latex, my cock or, er, hole will tell me so.
I used condom for the first 20 yrs of my sex life, including the whole time when I was in a relationship of 8 years. It just never occurred to me that I could/should go au naturel, and the practical reasons being I could do it longer with a condom and, at the time, it felt cleaner. My ex never wanted it bare either, of course only later would I find out that he was fooling around the whole time and then dumped me for a hot young Latino, which screwed me up big time.
Then I went on a barebacking rampage for a year and started bottoming, and by then I could confirm that it did feel better, or the sex was better anyway, if I used condom when I topped because if I didn't, it would be over within a minute.
So IMHO it's all in the head..
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You're a preemie, darling? And of course it's in your head, well when you're a bottom. I hesitate to remind people that a dildo is made of plastic last time I checked.
Anyway, it's all a blur when I'm drunk.
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You're a preemie, darling? And of course it's in your head, well when you're a bottom...
Oh boy, did I learn that fast...
I hesitate to remind people that a dildo is made of plastic last time I checked...
And it's a girl's best friend if I may add...
Anyway, it's all a blur when I'm drunk...
Yeah, but does it depend on whether you have to operate it yourself or someone is operating it for you.. ;)
Actually I have seen one in Japan that you could store some, er, liquid, whatever you fancy, in the balls and squeeze it out when you feel it's time (must be a pain to wash thorough afterward though).. I know, too much details, but I should have bought it..
Don't know if a Skryker is the solution to the OP but it surely has been mind..
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This has to be one of the sillier things I've read on this website in quite awhile. Of course it feels better without a rubber that's why everyone in barebacking! :) Apart from condoms being "a moment killer" the fact that barebacking feels better is the major reason guys don't wanna use them. If it felt the same why not just slap one on?
That is one on the major obstacles for safe sex programs. All the reasoning and education in the world can't change the way it feels to bareback. No matter how dangerous it may be to bareback the boys are gonna still want that feeling.
For those who don't notice the difference, I applaud them. I'm a top and for years came from sex maybe one in four times, until I stopped using condoms and then WHOA! Huge difference.
But like the original poster, I am mostly living a celibate life right now. Being on meds (side effects), working hard, having low testosterone, not wanting to give this to anyone else (assuming I didn't already), not wanting to get other diseases and not wanting to use condoms are just a few reasons why. To each, their own, as long as it harms none. And that's the real question.
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This has to be one of the sillier things I've read on this website in quite awhile. Of course it feels better without a rubber that's why everyone in barebacking! :) Apart from condoms being "a moment killer" the fact that barebacking feels better is the major reason guys don't wanna use them. If it felt the same why not just slap one on?
Well I'm glad to see Komnaes sees where I was coming from with my remark. I said there was not a "huge difference". In other words, feels incredibly good to be inside someone, with or without a condom.
I don't think its silly at all to consider the brain, and the entire body's feelings, more important than the peen.
The idea of a condom being a "moment" killer is in your brain.
"Condoms make me go soft" - its a physical manifestation of an emotional reaction to condoms.
"I'm too big for condoms." - Ok then go make some cash doing bareback porn, stud!
"It feels more intimate" - well, yeah it does, but its unsafe so grow a pair and make a trade off.
Drinking an entire bottle of champagne makes me temporarily feel better than just half, but half a bottle is delicious and I don't get a hangover.
By the way, there is an incredible variety of condoms on the market, A2z, have you (did you) try the really thin ones, in the right size? A bit expensive but really they feel almost like nothing at all.
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Folks keep forgetting that the biggest sex organ, so to speak, is not their cocks but their brains.
in my experience Mr Brain is a rather conflicted place when it comes to sex, somewhere between stoned, Disneyland and riding out with the bandits.
It seems a perfectly healthy choice to say to pass on condoms with other HIV-positive people. How long you need to know them beforehand is probably a trade between risks/benefits of shagging a hottie/your most dearly beloved and likelihood/frequency of extra trips to the clinic << this is not really an HIV-specific equation.
The odd HIV-negative bloke who's wanted to go sugar cane with me has been shown the door. Claiming the moral high ground when a bloke has a stiffie is a strange pleasure. Seems right too (for me). I respect their choice but I ain't participating.
- matt
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I just LOVE a British accent...even on web based chat!
Gary :D
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Being fairly newly diagnosed (32 1/2 days) I'm still looking at my dick as "the Dick of Death" It used to be my favorite play toy and something that I was proud of. I guess that this will pass over time.
The doc said I have been positive for a long time. Since most of my hookups were from a chat room, I decided to go on line and look for guys that I had hooked up with. I wanted to let them know to get tested. I also put a note on my profile that said I was positive. Warning: I did take any face pics off just to be on the safe side. I was shocked at the number of replies that I got from "Negative" guys asking to be barebacked with them being the bottom. One of them was from a guy in a wheel chair. You would figure that he would have enough challenges in life without this.
One of the guys that I regularly hooked up with said "Your lucky (being positive) as now can have as much sex as you want.".
As for the not being able to get reinfected part of this thread. I think that it is possible to get reinfected. When I got my confirmation test back everything was Reactive (meaning positive) except for the Western Blot. It showed Weakly Reactive. I asked my Doctor how this could be as my CD4 count is only 21? He's stumped as well, but is checking to see why this is. He's thinking that I may have been reinfected with in the last 5 to 6 months..
I know I'm new here but I have been doing some reading on this site as well as others. Before you all jump on me I know that every one is different and medical advise can only be taken as a generality rather than a fact. Even if it comes to your own doctor directed specifically to you . If you look at what is written you can see the following is common among the sites. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
1) The HIV/Aids virus multiplies at about 2 billion copies a day. Multiplying this fast and not having protine to prevent the HIV cells DNA from mutating is the reason that genetic mistakes happen. This is one reason why we have to change meds so often. From what I have read so far two people could have been infected on the same date by the same person. After a time they will both have different mutations of HIV in their system. Even though their numbers are the same and their strengths are at the same level. This is why having the exact same meds may work on one but not the other. I know that there is a blood test out there that checks your personal strains of the virus but I can't think of the name at the moment. I don't think that it's the viral load test as that checks the amount of your HIV in your system.
2) There are different strengths (HIV 1 to 5). If you are a 2 and a guy who is a 5 (like me) barebacks you you can be at risk of jumping to a 5 or at least he can add different mutations to yours.
3) With our immune systems being compromised we are also at greater risk of STD's and hepatitis. Condoms can prevent STD's. Although hepatitis and be spread ways other than anal or oral sex they do reduce the risk.
I'm sure that there is a lot more to this than what I have read so far but I will keep on reading and learning
I guess that in the end (no pun intended) you have to do what you feel is right. Personally anything other than jacking off a guy will involve the use of condoms.
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An HIV Poz guy that I know bottomed bareback for years. He has had syphilis, countless STDs and three anal operations for HPV and so forth. Unfortunately, he caught a nasty strain of HPV and now has an anal bag and can no longer bottom. I know condoms cannot totally prevent HPV but his type of anal cancer indicated that a condom would have saved his ass literally. He now speaks to groups about condom use. But when he is drinking, he says it was worth it. A bit weird I suppose.
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Eek god how grisly. And who are the audiences for these lectures?
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I trust you. Let's say that - at least - it's curable. I have not met a single hiv poz guy who practices safe sex... i am even wondering if that exists...
I do and I'm in a relationship with a negative guy who knew I was positive before we got together. Been together for four years now and still going! ;D
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Uh, that's not what the OP was talking about.
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By the way, there is an incredible variety of condoms on the market, A2z, have you (did you) try the really thin ones, in the right size? A bit expensive but really they feel almost like nothing at all.
I did. Throughout most of my 20s, I practiced safer sex, 90-95% of the time (though occasionally I screwed up.) Ironically, it was in my 30s, where I was far less active, that I slowed down on condom usage.