POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: Jeffreyj on October 30, 2007, 11:45:15 pm
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Wow, Edwards and Obama beat up Hillory pretty well in tonight's Democratic debate.
What do you guys and gals think???
She really blew the New York State Driving license issue...agreeing to give illegal aliens a DL....Wow
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Great, so once again the Dems will rip each other to shreds before they face the real enemy. :(
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I will move to Europe or Canada if a republican wins.
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will someone tell Hillary, Bush and Cheney aren't on the ballot next year. Hillarious.
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will someone tell Hillary, Bush and Cheney aren't on the ballot next year. Hillarious.
Funny I was going to ask you to tell the Republican candidates that Hillary hasn't been nominated either. Guess it's easier to pick on a girl than put forth policy.
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Clinton is the front-runner. She should expect to get beat up. That's the only way the other candidates can realistically score some points from her.
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Come on people, Obama is the only sensible Dem out of the whole mess. Do you guys really want a repeat of the Bill & Hillary show? Lets face it, either Obama gets the win or we get a Republican as president again. Besides, if any of you enjoy firearms the choices drop off fast.
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Now that the media has said Obama won the "debate", a guy who some here consider a gay basher,what do you do? Is Obama a gay basher because a supporter of his claims turning to Jesus helped him walk away from a homosexual lifestyle? God forbid, a democrat is elected,why not go for the whole enchilada and put Kucinich in the White House. He is pure of thought, a ardent appeaser and devout socialist.
Obama does say the war on terror is a hoax and the US should not fear terrorists or Iranian whackjobs with nukes. He also has said we should invade Pakistan. Hillary is for the war some days and against it other days depending on her audience. She voted for it. She claims the idiot in the White House tricked her. I really dont know what to make of either one of these candidates. Their strategy of appeasement at all costs is what got us into this situation in the first place. Appeasement of middle east whackjobs has been US policy since Reagan turned tail and ran out of Beirut.
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I think Kucinich is probably the best one of the lot - but I also realise he probably doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning the nomination.
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He sure did a bang up job of running Cleveland when he was mayor. It is the best experience he has on his resume, a real job, but judging from his recent voting record and statements it doesnt appear he learned anything from his disastrous time as mayor of the mistake on the lake.
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I like Kucinich, but am still throwing my support behind Bill Richardson.
I know he probably doesn't stand a chance, but I still would rather support the only person with any real experience.
Aside from that, I don't trust Obama. Not just the gay thing, but overall, he just hasn't impressed me and he has no experience to speak of.
If Richardson and Kucinich don't make the nomination, then I will probably support Hilliary Clinton. Edwards hasn't impressed me as yet, but it is still early.
HUGS,
Mark
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I think a ticket with Richardson on top and Ford or someone from the South would be a stronger ticket than any ticket with Hillarious,Edwards,or Obama. You have to take votes from the middle to win and Richardson and Ford can do that, the others are just too scary.
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Jack, who do you like on the Republican side? If all the DEMS are so bad, tell us who you want.
Ann- you like Dennis,-? He admitted to seeing A UFO for Gawds sakes.
Mark, I like richardson too, he would make a better head of State I think.
I love Bidon for VP regardless of who wins, he would make a great attack dog for the general election!
Ok Jack, come on....just be nice lol
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Rudy. Everyone else sucks. I guess Romney is OK but he will get killed because of his religion. The media will destroy him.
I wish I had seen a UFO and do not hold that against the Kucinich.
Biden,other than Richardson, is probably the only real grownup in the Dem group,but he is very verbose and pontificates on everything and tends to say really horrible things,like his comment about workers in 711s. If some one could put a monitor on what he says I think he might be a formidable candidate. I think most have forgotten about his plagiarism incident. Dude can talk forever and does.
After HIllarious' disaster last night, I think there a lot of Dems in smoke filled rooms wondering if their front runner is ready for prime time.
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I think most have forgotten about his plagiarism incident.
Right... where he correctly credited the words to who wrote them 9 out of the 10 times he used them in 1988, and the one time they were left off the RePIGlicans have never shut up about a red herring?
It's really sad and pathetic how you just repeat crap you know nothing about.
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Ann- you like Dennis,-? He admitted to seeing A UFO for Gawds sakes.
Hell yeah, Jeffrey. I nearly ran into one when I was out on the broom the other day. At least he saw his.
Ann
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Hell yeah, Jeffrey. I nearly ran into one when I was out on the broom the other day. At least he saw his.
Ann
My broom is in for its 50,000-mile check up.
Happy Halloween,
Mark
(Who loves Halloween)
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I don't like any of them.
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Biden has a couple other problems being the Dem candidate, he is a practicing Catholic. I am pretty sure he also had a brain aneurysm several years ago, and remembering the problems so many Dems had with Cheneys health history,wouldn't it be the height of hypocrisy to have a candidate with such a serious health incident.
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Isnt Biden also the guy who said something about Obama being a "clean" African American? If that isn't a racist comment, I have no idea what is. Add that to his 711 comment and maybe he shouldn't be on any ticket.
Its really funny there has been no uproar from Dems about this guys statements.
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Its really funny there has been no uproar from Dems about this guys statements.
Darlin' it's about time you were clued in. It's particularly sweet that a foreigner is gonna give you the 411 on this.
The reality is that it doesn't matter what you or any of the other ghouls from the Republican Party have to say on the impending Presidential election. You're gonna lose.
The Democrats can nominate Satan himself and you'll still lose.
Badly.
The sweetest thing in all of this is that the next President of the United States will be a Clinton, and a female one to boot. Not only that but she'll be presiding over a Democrat controlled Congress, she'll tax and spend and it'll be your money she does it with.
Fondly,
MtD :)
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Matty, Obviously you didnt see her performance the other night. Republicans are praying she is the nominee.
Her husband had the gift of being able to straddle every issue and make it sound like he was taking a firm position. Hillarious is not able to do it,most people aren't and thats a good thing. Hillarys only chance of winning against a republican is if Willy can get Ross Perot or some other third party candidate in the race.
So what are Dems left with if Hillarious is not the one? Obama is a very attractive candidate with great bullshit that all Dems love,but he and his staff are prone to some real whoppers,like the anti-gay preacher,invading Pakistan,and appeasing Iran.
I think Dems only chance to win is with Richardson. He is smooth. He is smart. He has real work experience,lots of it,something neither Obama or Hillarious have. He can talk himself out of any corner. The only scandal in his past that I can remember is he was the guy who was making the calls in attempt of find Monica a job to hide her before that scandal broke. He was not involved in any of other really scary scandal of the 90s,collecting FBI files on DEm and Rep enemies,selling seats on Sec of Commerce Ron Brown's round the world boondogles,pardon of Marc Rich in return for Library donations,the Enron cash payout for India project,or many campaign finance crim,including taking money from Bundlers that was collected from Chinese National(many suspect this was quid pro quo for the Loral missile guidance system Clinton granted Chinese access too.
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Blah, blah, blah.
Honey you can prattle on about last night, Bill, Ross Perot, the Chineses and all of that shit, but it won't change a thing.
The Demmykrats are gonna win. Not just that, but a certain Dem is gonna win and we all know her name.
So exercise your 1st Amendment Rights until your fingers bleed babe. For the next 4 years it's all just hot air.
:)
MtD
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Larry who? http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gop-will-let-craig-keep-his-earmarks-2007-11-01.html
“The leadership is going to leave it up to the Ethics Committee,” said Bennett.
McConnell asked the Senate Select Committee on Ethics to investigate Craig’s arrest shortly after it became public. Since then, little news of the probe’s progress has leaked from the secretive panel.
Craig’s name is attached to 84 earmarks in different annual spending bills. He is the sole sponsor of 22 projects, according to a database of appropriations earmarks compiled by Taxpayers for Common Sense.
Seven of those projects, worth more than $7 million, are in legislation crafted by the Appropriations interior subcommittee, where he served as the senior-ranking Republican until September.
Bennett, who is a member of that subcommittee, said there was no reason that Craig should not reap the fruits of his leadership on the panel.
Its really funny there has been no uproar from Dems Repubs about this guys statements.
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you are going off topic again. This thread is about the Hilarious' debacle on TV the other night. I wonder why she didnt employ that insane laugh she used on all the sunday morning talk shows a couple of weeks ago? Maybe she will bring that back this week when she is asked anything of any importance.
I thought it especially hilarious when asked about her qualifications for President,she stated being a childrens advocate and fighting Bush and Cheney. Hello. Bush and Cheney are not the ticket and being a chidrens advocate is really special. Its not her fault,she is trying to do what worked for Willy,being on both sides of every issue,but only Willy had the talent to accomplish that fete.
One more clusterfuck like the other night and she is finished. All the money from all the bundlers and mysterious Chinese characters won't save her. She is pissing off her base, and confirming what most sensible people already know about her,she is in not Presidential material.
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wonder who said this, hmmm.....
after reading some of the Hillary plan, I have to say, if we are gonna move in this direction,it doesnt seem that horrible
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The one thing many of you aren't thinking about is the importance of cultural lifestyle. Dem's are made up in large part of workers, both union and non union. Many workers have life traditions that can't be separated from the family or person. Here in America we value our country, our freedom and our people. Mess with any of these and you loose. The people I run with worry about fighting a war in America, loosing freedoms like firearms and loosing their take home money (money after taxes). Most people, in other words, hate most any tax, don't want anyone messing with their guns used for home and personal safety, and definitely don't want to see some nut job blowing up a school bus filled with young children. Many of us also hate to see children, the poor, old or ill suffer.
If the Dem's want to win the government back in a big way, they need to find someone who will honer most if not all of these values. The Dem's big mistake in the past was rolling over for the terrorists which opened up American soil to attack. The Dem's cut the military back so much, the US didn't have enough to defend itself and attack the enemy at the same time. They also tried to take away the one thing which makes many of us feel safer in our homes and when we are out and about, our firearms.
Find someone who will value and address these issues and they will stay in office for a long time. Dem or Rep. it won't matter which to the American people.
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me. It didnt sound that horrible,but the health system is only one problem and way down my list. The term "it doesnt seem that horrible" is not exactly an endorsement. I would say horrible is worse than bad but just short of catastrophic.
My priorities are taxes,spending,defense and honesty above fixing the health care system. I am trying to think of anything the government has fixed.
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I forgot. Dems might bring Algore back if Hillarious blows up again. It seems as if he has made as much as he can from his Global Warming scam. The hoax of a lifetime,that only someone as unscrupulous as Algore could have pulled off.
My favorite Algore story was right before the first Iraq War vote and he approached Bob Dole and told him he would change his vote to favor the war if Dole would give him more speaking time than Dems were giving him. Dole did the deal and Algore supported first Gulf War. Thats a real principled guy. Yeah, the same guy who attacks tobacco industry but was biggest supporter of tobacco farming subsidies.
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I'll be surprised if Hillary Clinton wins. So many people just don't like her personality and history. Several coworkers, mostly female, have basically said "I just don't like her. I can't explain why but I just don't." Many people vote from their gut and not their head.
I prefer to wait until the pack has thinned before I start considering who I want to vote for.
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I forgot. Dems might bring Algore back if Hillarious blows up again. It seems as if he has made as much as he can from his Global Warming scam. The hoax of a lifetime,that only someone as unscrupulous as Algore could have pulled off.
My favorite Algore story was right before the first Iraq War vote and he approached Bob Dole and told him he would change his vote to favor the war if Dole would give him more speaking time than Dems were giving him. Dole did the deal and Algore supported first Gulf War. Thats a real principled guy. Yeah, the same guy who attacks tobacco industry but was biggest supporter of tobacco farming subsidies.
you are going off topic again.~jack
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I missed it, but she's still my gal...
Just read an article featuring a just released Pew study that Hillary would beat Giuiliani by 7 or 8 points. I don't know too much about the art of politics, but I would bet my life she will trounce him in NY and other northeast states that he says he is the only candidate he can turn red. Sounds like wishful thiking on his part. He SCARES me more than Bush. I hate fearmongers and he is the epitome of one.
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He SCARES me more than Bush. I hate fearmongers and he is the epitome of one.
Indeed. I lived in NYC during his entire mayoralty, and I do not wish to repeat another 8 years with his authoritarian politics. If you dislike Bush on these grounds, I guarantee you Rudy will be doubly worse.
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I dont see how the person I saw on TV the other night beats any Republican. The Dems are in real quandary if she can't change and she can't. Obama is panning out as very green,so that leaves Richardson,Biden(whose gaffes will haunt him) and Gore. Gore is a very tired act and not much different that Hillarious. Richardson is the only Dem who has a realistic chance of getting the undecided voter or the moderate or whatever they call themselves.
I dont know if there is any candidate,republican or democrat who has a stronger resume and is more prepared for the job. This guy has done it all in government and has little baggage.
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I dont see how the person I saw on TV the other night beats any Republican. The Dems are in real quandary if she can't change and she can't. Obama is panning out as very green,so that leaves Richardson,Biden(whose gaffes will haunt him) and Gore. Gore is a very tired act and not much different that Hillarious. Richardson is the only Dem who has a realistic chance of getting the undecided voter or the moderate or whatever they call themselves.
I dont know if there is any candidate,republican or democrat who has a stronger resume and is more prepared for the job. This guy has done it all in government and has little baggage.
In the midst of his presidential candidacy, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani now faces a looming government investigation into his handling of the radios used by firefighters on 9/11.
The investigation, which will examine how the FDNY ended up using faulty equipment during the terrorist attacks and why Giuliani gave a no-bid contract to Motorola for that equipment, has been endorsed by New York City Councilman Eric Gioia, chair of the city's oversight and investigations committee.
"I will do everything in my power to get answers, to get the truth," said Gioia, "These families deserve answers and really the entire city and our country deserve answers."
Calls for an investigation were first proposed by filmmaker Robert Greenwald who has documented Giuliani's handling of 9/11 in a series of shorts for Brave New Films. In The Real Rudy: Radios, Greenwald documents how radios used by the FDNY on 9/11 were the same ones that malfunctioned during the 1993 attack on the Twin Towers. When - eight years later - Giuliani finally purchased new communications equipment for $14 million from Motorola, it was never field-tested. A week later, the equipment was recalled after a firefighter's mayday went un-heard. Giuliani reissued the old batch of radios. And on 9/11 when a police helicopter warned that the North Tower could collapse, more than 120 firefighters remained inside.
"To know that we had failing radios in 1993 and did virtually nothing until September 11 is shocking to say the least," said Gioia. "To watch this documentary and see the important questions that were asked and seemingly unanswered and ignored for so many years, it's disturbing."
More than 20,000 people signed a petition demanding an investigation into Giuliani's handling of the FDNY radios. In an interview posted on YouTube, Gioia confirmed that he will take the steps to initiate public hearings, including sending out letters to fellow council members and requesting pertinent documents. Greenwald praised the initial steps forward.
"Brave New Films is thrilled with Councilman Gioia's response to our petition for a City Council investigation into Giuliani's failure to equip firefighters with the radios they needed on 9/11." "The groundswell of support for our petition shows the depth of Americans' desire for accountability."
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Recent polling has made something pretty clear for Mitt Romney: He would have a hard time at best in the general election in his home state of Massachusetts, where he served one term as governor. The latest SurveyUSA poll shows him losing the state by an amazing 65%-31% margin against Hillary Clinton. And what's more, he might not even try to compete there at all.
In an e-mail exchange with Election Central, Romney spokesman Kevin Madden seemed to tacitly admit that they'll cede to the Democrats the state that elected Romney as its governor five years ago. "Massachusetts is a pretty blue state, and has gone to the Democrat candidate in national elections quite regularly in recent history," Madden said. "Our focus is on winning the Republican nomination and then taking the governor's message of bringing change to Washington to the rest of the country."
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Indeed Hilary took quite a beating....although she should have been expecting it. Being the front runner. However watching Obama and
Edwards attack her did little to endear me to either candidate. The fact that Hilary seems to talk out of both sides of her mouth didn't help
her case either. Personally I'd like to see the candidates (whether they be democratic, republican or independent) actually discuss the issues
and their particular solutions to the problems we as Americans face in the days ahead. Bitch fights may be entertaining...for drag queens
but Presidential candidates should address the issues and stop trying to tear each other down. The only thing I've learned by watching these
debates is just how low a candidate will go to get higher ratings in the polls...and that's a sad state of affairs in American politics.
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[A] solid majority of Republican white evangelicals (55%) say they would at least consider voting for a conservative third-party candidate if the general election is between Giuliani and Clinton. Overall, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning voters say they would consider backing a third-party candidate who holds more conservative positions than Giuliani on social issues like abortion and gay marriage.
The hand that rocks the republican cradle could actually propel Hillary into the Whitehouse. Wouldn't that be a hoot.
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The only thing I've learned by watching these
debates is just how low a candidate will go to get higher ratings in the polls...and that's a sad state of affairs in American politics.
This has been going on since Jefferson campaigned against Adams. In fact, that one was much nastier. Can you imagine someone screaming "bloodthirsty atheist who walks in rags and sleeps amidst filth and vermin"?
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Exactly. Read "scandalmongerer" by William Saffire. It is about the Jefferson scandals and others of that time.
Makes todays politicians look like boy scouts.
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Jack...I just wonder, you told Matty that he was going "off topic" in this thread.
How can you say that in the "Off Topic" section?
Republican spin?
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My initial gut reaction to Hillary being a candidate...
I'd be surprised if Americans elected a woman as president.
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Yet a Pew Research poll this week had Hillary creaming Rudy by 8 percentage points. Yes, that's a year out from the election but it contradicts a lot of the feeble, parochial arguments being trotted out in this thread (like that everyone votes with a hunting gun up their shit shooter).
Look at it this way, on a state by state basis Republicans have to increase what they had in 2004 which they won BARELY -- care to tell me which state's electoral votes are going to flip from blue to red? Yeah, right. Iraq's gotten worse and more expensive, housing bubbles popping everywhere, impending recession etc etc. Sorry, just don't see it folks. Rudy will also cause many of the evangelicals to just stay home.
Republicans have more than double the Senate seats to defend than Dems do, which means Dems could very easily obtain a veto-proof Senate. Not sure how the House will go, but they have an uphill battle there and there have been quite a few "timely" retirements announced with Republicans, obviously not keen to throw their money into a pit that they'll lose in a campaign just to get a minority party committee seat.
Read it and weep, Jack (and Politico is a conservative web site):
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/6671.html
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A lot could happen in a year.
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Really? I never realized that. Good thing I inserted a disclaimer in my post.
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I'd totally vote for a woman president.
Obama has some nerve criticizing her on Iran and the Revolutionary guard.
HE MISSED THE VOTE and cast no opinion.
He has missed %80 of his votes since his run for President. I'm not sure why Hillary did not pounce on that...But she had her hands full, getting attacked from the 4 candidate, PLUS getting attacked from Tim Russart.
Pile on, shall we?
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jeff, I was just kidding with Matty. I have made the point many times that this is the Off Topic forum in defense of my nauseating habit of going off topic.
I dont think Americans would have any problem in electing a woman president and Hillarious still has a slim chance but she is gonna have to become more transparent, she is just not talented enough to play both sides of every issue the way her husband did, but than no one except Willy has that ability. He was a master.
If Hillarious can't handle questions from Obama and Edwards,she could have real problems dealing with our enemies. I guess she can pull the piling on a woman defense against republicans and the media will take her side but its not gonna work against other Dems. I want to see her use the piling on defense with US enemies.
And how does being a Childrens Advocate and fighting Bush and Cheney qualify you for the job? She listed those as her main attributes. Maybe she will start up with that insane laugh act again,that worked better than her attempt to take both sides of every issue.
Obama screwed up again this week saying he wants to appease Iran. This guy has no chance in general election.
Hell, even an old washed up old drunk like Chris Dodd looked good compared to these two.
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I'm just so surprised you don't like the Bill and Hillary. The story of a man in debt up to his eyeballs when he left public service, able to become a millionaire in the private sector. A man who cheated on his wife (with a woman) and yet she forgave him and they remain married. A man that gets paid to sit around all day pontificating while his wife works. Their story is a Republican wet dream (add sex with a man) if I've ever heard one. Change a few genders, throw in a little disease, and the Clinton's would be perfect for Aidsmeds.
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Since this debate, her lead has dropped 12 points in some polls! WOW!
Is America getting sick of Hillary?
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It seems the debate in question was her "howard dean moment". She seems to be almost as inept as Bush in answering questions. She doesnt mangle the english language like W but she just can give a straight answer on anything. She also uses "i forget" and " i didnt know", "i had no knowledge" way too much.
I dont understand the surprise over the planting of questions. I thought they all did this? We know the networks do it,so why should it matter if the candidate does it? Reminds me of when the media when nuts over George One not knowing what a scanner in a grocery store was. How much time does a President spend in a grocery store?
The huge amount of money Obama raked in last week is evidence of a seismic shift in support. Hillary needs to shake things up in a hurry. She needs to fire a lot of campaign advisors, cause if Obama is the only alternative he may develop a teflon like quality and then she is in real trouble.
Whoever the Dem candidate is, they will have a very difficult time straddling the appeasers and those who understand the realities of the world just like Rudy is gonna have a tough time winning over the religious right while trying to appeal to those in the middle.
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Jack, with all do respect, No one on the planet earth is more inept then George W. Bush in answering questions. And it's not even close!
Well boys and girls, ROUND 2 tonight. Should be interesting to say the least. CNN 8:00 est. Happy viewing everyone!
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Bush is horrible,absolutely horrible,the worst ever,but all kidding aside most know he just isnt a good public speaker. Hillary's double talk, evasiveness, and her constant claims of bad memory make her appear dishonest at best.
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Bush is horrible,absolutely horrible,the worst ever,but all kidding aside most know he just isnt a good public speaker. Hillary's double talk, evasiveness, and her constant claims of bad memory make her appear dishonest at best.
Show me ANY politician who isn't good at double talk, evasiveness or who doesn't have selective memory and I will show you a politician who will not win elections. I don't think this is a good thing, mind you, but it is a true thing.
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very true,but you have to be good at it,and Hillarious is awful. It should be interesting tonight,maybe she will bring back the insane laugh she used to avoid tough questions on all the Sunday shows a few weeks ago,cause she can't do the double talk. There are also some issues you have to be for or against and its obvious she either doesnt know where she stands on these issues or is just following polls as she demonstrated with the drivers license debacle.
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You would think Hillary would be better at it. After all, her husband is the best politician on the planet. Tonight should be interesting.
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Stella got her groove back.
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Being that politics is what i teach...er....used to teach if I could find a job, I wanna weigh in for fun. Everyone is going to go after Hillary right now. No one in the democratic party can beat her. Obama has no experience and black voters are overwhelmingly supporting Hillary because well they love Bill. Edwards lost all gay support and the hair drives me nuts. On top of that ... he has lost. He couldn't win the last time, people who vote in primary season remember that. It takes someone really special to overcome that...and it ain't Edwards. Biden looked good last night on the bits of the debate I could take...cause even as a civics teacher this shit is getting boring. Biden is just not as name worthy as Clinton so he stands no chance against her. That being said, yeah ann Kucinich seems pretty good, on gay issues he rules, but for even most democrats he is to liberal...he is like the pat buchanan of the democratic party...just a little to much make up on that drag queen. Bill Richardson...I like him....but no name recognition no cash flow. So Hillary has all that. She will be the major target of everyone. They will design questions to force her to take stands on issues that will damage her to certain people. She will survive it, and unless the Divine Mr. G (ore) enters the race....this is pretty much a lock. This from a political scientist point of view.
The Republicans have also begun targeting her because they know in order to beat her next year...you better start the rumors and the "flip flopping" commercials now to influence the voters. So its attack Hillary season through February. Happens every 4 years to the front runner.
In my personal opinion, I don't know who the Republican candidate will be, im thinking Guiliani like everyone else, but that rabbit hasn't come out of its hole yet. (No I dont watch Dr. Phil...I wish a giant rabbit would eat that big shiny head with that big mouth oh his though) The winner of next years election will be the one that comes out first with a SOLID exit strategy from Iraq. Thats what America wants. It would help them as well to start targeting areas within the Bush Administration that have held some sort of corruption of any kind and release what happened and how they would make sure they would fix it. Because this election is the anti-Bush election an anti-Irag election. Immigration is to dangerous to make a committal on...America is divided 50-50 on it. Unless you have a way of throwing all the illegals out and then bring them back legally to work, no one is going to be happy completely. As long as amnesty is mentioned people will be ok. The driver's license thing was dumb the way it was handled, she tried weeks no to answer that question...to bad she finally did.
Anyway, its been nice to talk on here about something interesting to me ... and not be about my own body! You wanna talk more about this I am game! Started out working on campaigns at age 5 and was the Head Page for the US House in high school. Now I teach it and I love it.
Matt