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Author Topic: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...  (Read 7337 times)

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Offline ds4146

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Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« on: September 08, 2010, 08:26:28 pm »
oh that's right....Obama!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39067928/ns/us_news-security/

Some things never change and we wonder why we have such a bad image around the world. The change in adminstrations has been amazing!

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 09:20:04 pm »
Wut! Bush is no longer in office?? I thought surely with the continued drone attacks killing innocent civilians in countries that we are not even at war against (Yemen, Pakistan) was a sure sign Bush was still in office. hmmm.

oh well

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 09:34:35 pm »
Wut! Bush is no longer in office?? I thought surely with the continued drone attacks killing innocent civilians in countries that we are not even at war against (Yemen, Pakistan) was a sure sign Bush was still in office. hmmm.

oh well
Although there are similarities, the big difference is - we actually get to hear about these attacks - if Bush was still in, we would have never known - there are still a lot of things that we probably don't know about that happened when he was in office (can we say torture at Gitmo?) ---- but, overall, I am losing any trust or confidence I have in any politician.  And, to top it off, I live in Florida (and South Florida at that) where we have had more politicians arrested on corruption charges in the past year than in any other time in history.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 09:38:52 pm »



   When I first saw the title I figured I'd get to see some nude shots of Michelle in some head down booty up photos.  I'm kinda disappointed right now.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 09:41:40 pm »
Although there are similarities, the big difference is - we actually get to hear about these attacks - if Bush was still in, we would have never known -

Somewhat agreed. Regardless if we hear about it or not it's not right, regardless who is behind ordering them. Dammit this is the US Military in 2010, if we dont ahve better technology/intelligence to negate civilian killings then we shouldnt be pulling the trigger.

@ Michelle head down booty up comment- ICKY!!

-W
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 09:45:26 pm »
@ Michelle head down booty up comment- ICKY!!


If shaven, I am in total agreement with you Willy.  Only old school guys like you and me like it nappy.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 09:45:49 pm »
Somewhat agreed. Regardless if we hear about it or not it's not right, regardless who is behind ordering them. Dammit this is the US Military in 2010, if we dont ahve better technology/intelligence to negate civilian killings then we shouldnt be pulling the trigger.

@ Michelle head down booty up comment- ICKY!!

-W
I agree on both accounts Will!

Of course, Barbara Bush head down booty up ---- okay, I did it again - just threw up in my mouth a little bit.... :-\
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2010, 09:49:49 pm »

 Barbara Bush head down booty up

OMG, this thread is degrading quicker than I thought it would.

w
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2010, 10:01:01 pm »
Of course, Barbara Bush head down booty up ----

All depends, is she looking back at you all coy like?  With one lil finger in the side of her mouth, perhaps?  Sounds kinda hot.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2010, 10:06:06 pm »
All depends, is she looking back at you all coy like?  With one lil finger in the side of her mouth, perhaps?  Sounds kinda hot.

OOOOOMG. Why, why why why  do I keep clicking on this thread.

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2010, 10:07:57 pm »
OOOOOMG. Why, why why why  do I keep clicking on this thread.



Just imagine Nancy R in nothing but her bloomers, Wumpala. That should calm your jangled nerves.

MtD

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2010, 10:11:15 pm »
Also:


MtD

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2010, 10:17:41 pm »
Also:


MtD

Look at that smile on Dubyah's face. He's proud of that rat's nest betwixt her legs.

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2010, 10:18:46 pm »

   LOL right below her is "Got Milk?"


  
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 10:19:40 pm »
Look at that smile on Dubyah's face. He's proud of that rat's nest betwixt her legs.

It's a goodly thatch. :)

MtD

Offline bocker3

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2010, 10:24:36 pm »
Somewhat agreed. Regardless if we hear about it or not it's not right, regardless who is behind ordering them. Dammit this is the US Military in 2010, if we dont ahve better technology/intelligence to negate civilian killings then we shouldnt be pulling the trigger.
-W

I'm going to assume that you've not been in the military (please correct me if I'm wrong).  Civilians die in war -- war is messy, mistakes happen.  It is terribly unfortunate, but it is, alas, reality.  While I agree that we should enter them ONLY when necessary -- if you think war should be clean and tidy, you are not thinking in the real world.  Additionally, if we didn't follow "the enemy" into other countries, they'd simply all flee there to avoid being shot at.  We know the Taliban and good ol' Osama seem to flit in and out of Pakistan at will.

Again -- not saying that it is a good thing that civilians get killed, but it is not surprising and is not, in my opinion, any sign of ineptitude on the part of the military.  War is chaos.

Mike

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 10:25:56 pm »
Look at that smile on Dubyah's face. He's proud of that rat's nest betwixt her legs.


It's a goodly thatch. :)

MtD

Yeah, it's a bit much..  I didn't know it could get like that.  I only saw stuff like this when I was in treatment  for crack addiction...  that's how they kept it for some reason.  Crack makes the Bush grow evidently.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2010, 10:37:32 pm »
Yeah, it's a bit much..  I didn't know it could get like that.  I only saw stuff like this when I was in treatment  for crack addiction...  that's how they kept it for some reason.  Crack makes the Bush grow evidently.
Kind of reminded me of my mom's err, I mean my old girlfriend's....  ::)
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2010, 10:54:19 pm »
I'm going to assume that you've not been in the military (please correct me if I'm wrong).  Civilians die in war -- war is messy, mistakes happen.  It is terribly unfortunate, but it is, alas, reality.  While I agree that we should enter them ONLY when necessary -- if you think war should be clean and tidy, you are not thinking in the real world.  Additionally, if we didn't follow "the enemy" into other countries, they'd simply all flee there to avoid being shot at.  We know the Taliban and good ol' Osama seem to flit in and out of Pakistan at will.

Again -- not saying that it is a good thing that civilians get killed, but it is not surprising and is not, in my opinion, any sign of ineptitude on the part of the military.  War is chaos.

Mike

Whether I was/am in the military is irrelevant. I'm aware of collateral damge in war. I will back pedal somewhat and agree with you that we cannot fully negate civilian deaths, however it's out of control now and  all efforts to minimilize civilian casualties should be first and foremost, there needs to be more restraint.

This is NOT restraint..

On June 22, the US struck at a house officials called a “suspected militant hideout,” burying a few locals inside. When others rushed to the scene to rescue them, they launched another missile, killing 13 apparently innocent Pakistanis. When they held a funeral procession on June 23, the US hit that too, ostensibly on the belief that Baitullah Mehsud might be among the mourners. He wasn’t, but the attack killed at least 80 more people.

Nor is this...

"Out of 700 kills in Pakistan in 2009 only 5- 15 were verifiable Militant leaders."

a similar claim was made in the New York Times by counterinsurgency experts David Kilcullen and Andrew Exum, who wrote that drone strikes had "killed some 700 civilians. This is 50 civilians for every militant killed, a hit rate of 2 percent." In other words, in their analysis, 98 percent of those killed in drone attacks were civilians

http://www.newamerica.net/publications/policy/revenge_of_the_drones

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/01/02/us-killed-700-civilians-in-pakistan-drone-strikes-in-2009/

a 2% kill rate??????? Jesus Christ, Clearly there is something wrong. At 98% "collateral damage" someone needs to step back and re evaluate why we are shredding so many women, children and grandmas.

-Will

« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 10:56:35 pm by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2010, 11:02:36 pm »
Sometimes you have to kill a lot of innocents to get to the militants.  This is just military strategy you wouldn't be privy to you damn civvy.  Of course if you reverse course and say September 11th may have been targetting militant Americans and just accidentally killed some 1500+ civilians...

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2010, 11:07:55 pm »
Sometimes you have to kill a lot of innocents to get to the militants.  This is just military strategy you wouldn't be privy to you damn civvy.  Of course if you reverse course and say September 11th may have been targetting militant Americans and just accidentally killed some 1500+ civilians...

You know, I try to defend you to our friends and then you go and open your mouth. sigh.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2010, 11:09:16 pm »
You know, I try to defend you to our friends and then you go and open your mouth. sigh.

-Will

Touche.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2010, 11:09:52 pm »
You know, I try to defend you to our friends and then you go and open your mouth. sigh.

-Will

Perhaps this is an example of Trey's mastery of irony?

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2010, 11:14:16 pm »
Perhaps this is an example of Trey's mastery of irony?

MtD

Don't you have some kids you should be burning in an oven?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2010, 11:17:24 pm »
Don't you have some kids you should be burning in an oven?

They're busy chopping the wood.

MtD

Offline bocker3

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2010, 07:55:57 am »
Whether I was/am in the military is irrelevant. I'm aware of collateral damge in war. I will back pedal somewhat and agree with you that we cannot fully negate civilian deaths, however it's out of control now and  all efforts to minimilize civilian casualties should be first and foremost, there needs to be more restraint.

This is NOT restraint..

On June 22, the US struck at a house officials called a “suspected militant hideout,” burying a few locals inside. When others rushed to the scene to rescue them, they launched another missile, killing 13 apparently innocent Pakistanis. When they held a funeral procession on June 23, the US hit that too, ostensibly on the belief that Baitullah Mehsud might be among the mourners. He wasn’t, but the attack killed at least 80 more people.

Nor is this...

"Out of 700 kills in Pakistan in 2009 only 5- 15 were verifiable Militant leaders."

a similar claim was made in the New York Times by counterinsurgency experts David Kilcullen and Andrew Exum, who wrote that drone strikes had "killed some 700 civilians. This is 50 civilians for every militant killed, a hit rate of 2 percent." In other words, in their analysis, 98 percent of those killed in drone attacks were civilians

http://www.newamerica.net/publications/policy/revenge_of_the_drones

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/01/02/us-killed-700-civilians-in-pakistan-drone-strikes-in-2009/

a 2% kill rate??????? Jesus Christ, Clearly there is something wrong. At 98% "collateral damage" someone needs to step back and re evaluate why we are shredding so many women, children and grandmas.

-Will



I don't think that it is any less restrained today -- in fact I think it is far more restrained today then at any time in US history.  We killed 50,000+ with a single bomb on Aug 6, 1945.  There was a time when military strategy included killing civilians -- cities were bombed routinely -- not to kill soldiers, but to dismantle their ability to manufacture things and to kill morale within the enemy.  So, your outrage is actually being media driven.  50 yrs ago, these examples would never have seen the light of day -- not because anyone wanted them hidden, but because they wouldn't have newsworthy.

The main goal in war didn't used to be killing soldiers -- it was to make the other side want to stop fighting.  Of course war has changed and strategies need to change to.  The never ending media parade requires restraint that, quite frankly, drags war on longer and causes more casualties then would have happened otherwise, IMO.

Finally, my comment on whether or not you were in the military wasn't about whether you understood the consequences -- it was about whether you truly got the chaos that happens in battle.  I thought I knew -- until I found myself in Iraq with a loaded M-16, tanks firing rounds off in the near distance and Scuds flying overhead -- then I realized that I had no idea the chaos that is war.

Mike

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2010, 12:21:21 pm »
Finally, my comment on whether or not you were in the military wasn't about whether you understood the consequences -- it was about whether you truly got the chaos that happens in battle.  I thought I knew -- until I found myself in Iraq with a loaded M-16, tanks firing rounds off in the near distance and Scuds flying overhead -- then I realized that I had no idea the chaos that is war.

Mike

I thought you were a veteran, wasn't aware you were in Iraq, regardless, thank you for your service, its people like you that make this country what it is. You have my respect as do all veterans/active duty soldiers.

However I submit that the battlefield stress you experienced while standing under scuds is far different than the stress experienced by the Drone operators while sitting half a world away from the front line in air conditioned cubicles outside of Las Vegas. Not only that, but the situations I am referring to are drones attacking non-combat engaged targets where there are no US military personell within miles, perhaps hundred of miles of the target.

As far as your reference to the carpet bombings and nuclear strikes and strategies of 40- 60 years ago, that is ancient military history. And as you alluded too strategies have changed. In 2010 why are we targeting funeral processions and killing 80 people and missing the HVT, and firing on a group of civilians merely because they were "male" and of "military age". Is the enemy now anyone male and of military age?

More in line with the original post, Obama is carrying on Bush's legacy of rampant military strikes in sovereign countries which have not attacked us and we are not at war with. Any potential violations of International Law are being skirted due to coerced tacit approval from Paksitan due to Bush's strongarm 2001 threat to Musharraf (to which the implied threat still is there under Obama) that the US would bomb Pakistan relentlessly and stated "You can breathe with us in the 21st century or you can be bombed back to the stone age" If Musharraf didnt allow cross border attacks into Pakistan, to sweeten the deal Bush poured billions of dollars into Pakistan to prop up the shaky regime of Musharraf (only a portion of which is going to the intended purpose of fighting militants, we have no clue where the bulk of the money has gone), and Obama is condoning some of  these same gunslinging policies of the Bush era by continuing with Drone strikes on civilians and incursions into sovereign countries using threats and money, we are starting to see this in Yemen. How is this jiving with Obamas pledge to strengthen the View of the US in the eyes of the world?

With all this being said, I am not antiwar, on the contrary I come from a strong military family, my Gfather was a "full bird" Colonel, my father was a lieutenant, I get that war is necessary, I get that there is collateral civilian damage. But IMHO when we are killing 100 women children and grandmothers to get a couple verified militants we have gone too far. Certainly our capabilities are such that we can follow the suspected militant until we can verify his identity and ensure that he is not among a crowd of civilians before we pull the trigger on these drones.  In 2009 even McChrystal realized this and tightened the airstrike policy substantially and in doing so said "“Air power contains the seeds of our own destruction if we do not use it responsibly,” .. “We can lose this fight". However Petraus has since then reset the bar and loosened the policy somewhat. However IMHO much more can be done in restraining drone attacks on civilians

-Will

Ref::
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/world/asia/22airstrikes.html
http://www.truth-out.org/article/us-military-aid-pakistan-misses-its-al-qaeda-target
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a091101mahmoodextended
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/01/02/us-killed-700-civilians-in-pakistan-drone-strikes-in-2009/

« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 12:31:35 pm by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Thank God Bush is still in the White House...
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2010, 01:37:47 am »
If we hadn't deverted resources into Iraq, we wouldn't have to rely on these drones that kill so many innocent people.  This week the Pentagon released the names of 26 service members killed in Afghanistan.  It seems Afghanistan is the new Iraq.

On a side note, I'm very upset at Obama and Biden giving praise to Bush that he cares so much for our military members.  Let's tell it like it is and stop being so bipartisan and diplomatic.  Obama did this during his address from the Oval Office and Biden was just on The Colbert Report giving thanks and praise to Bush.     

 


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