you're gay because your uncle cared

[leatherman]

MSNBC is reporting this interesting article: "Homosexual men may perpetuate genes by nurturing nieces and nephews"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35347847/ns/health-behavior/

One idea is called the "kin selection hypothesis." Perhaps gay men are biologically predisposed to help raise the offspring of their siblings and other relatives.

"Maybe what's happening is they're helping their kin reproduce more by just being altruistic towards kin," said evolutionary psychologist Paul Vasey of the University of Lethbridge in Canada. "Kin therefore pass on more of the genes which they would share with their homosexual relatives."

so make sure to love your nieces and nephews a lot and help them any way you can, or we (gays) could become extinct.

[MarkB]

Well I must have caught gay-ness some other way because my uncles were all a waste of space.

 

[Miss Philicia]

I had no uncles or aunts because both of my parents are only children.

[skeebo1969]

   My uncle really cared, I think.  He was my father figure until my step dad came along.  He was also a barber.  He also had one of those barber straps to sharpen his blades.  He also used that same barber strap to whip my ass.  Guess that's why I'm a mean SOB..

[GSOgymrat]

My brother better not hear about this theory: "See, you're biologically required to babysit my kid."

I don't think so.

[komnaes]

Uncles = Gay Recruiters

Funny..

[leatherman]

Uncles = Gay Recruiters

you did realize that's not at all what the article said, right?
(I just didn't want that prejudicial stereotype left out there )

[komnaes]

(I just didn't want that prejudicial stereotype left out there )

Ha.. ok.. how about:

Gay Recruiters = Uncles 

[leatherman]

Ha.. ok.. how about:

Gay Recruiters = Uncles 

sorry, i don't like you choice of the word "recruiter" and what that implies
People are born gay because it's genetic. Recruiting suggests changing someone's opinion or in a worse case scenario molestation. Recruiting is the exact opposite of what this article stated.

how about "Uncles = enablers/nurturers helping gays to be born"?

the article says that it's by uncles nurturing their nieces and nephews who then grow up to produce the gay offspring by attribute of "teh gay" being in their genes. The uncles produce no gays, nor "recruit" them. it's their sibling's offspring that continue to breed that produces more gays. Which was the whole point of the article. That gays do not produce or recruit gays; but our families continue to produce offspring who are genetically gay.

[komnaes]

how about "Uncles = enablers/nurturers helping gays to be born"?

A rather disturbing thought really. You mean my uncles have enabled me to be born gay? I hope you're speaking metaphorically.. .. though you did say something about genetic.

And I wonder how far can one go by linking recruiting to molesting. It probably applies more to the Catholic Church really if one wishes to go that far.

[Hellraiser]

No he was being literal.  You see when you were in the womb your uncle genetically engineered you to have a dominant flaming queen gene.

...of course he was being figurative.

[komnaes]

No he was being literal.  You see when you were in the womb your uncle genetically engineered you to have a dominant flaming queen gene.

...of course he was being figurative.

Haha.. in that case I owe my two closeted gay uncles a thank you. I wouldn't want to have been born anything less than a "flaming queen"..

And despite the fact that other than being deeply closetedly gay I should also thank them for not passing the alcoholic genes to me. I have enough bad genes to deal with really.

[Theyer]

Can,t wait to tell the coal mining uncles this one........

[Matty the Damned]

People are born gay because it's genetic.

And you can substantiate this claim?


MtD

[leatherman]

And you can substantiate this claim?

Are you just playing devil's advocate or are you proposing that people are not born gay but are changed or develop into being gay? If you have proof that homosexuality is not genetic and therefore comes by nurture, please quit wasting time by questioning my statements about the subject, please present us with your data. I'm sure quite a few people in these forums would be interested to see what data you have substantiating such a theory that homosexuality is not genetic.

Otherwise, I suggest you take some time, google up "gay gene", "gay genetic" or something to that effect, and study up on the subject. The science that had already come about is very interesting.

As a gay man myself, I believe it is a genetic trait which runs in my family. My maternal aunt is homosexual and though it's unconfirmed we believe that 2 of her deceased paternal uncles were also. (perhaps my own family situation actually gives some validity to the msnbc article's conclusion)

Out of curiousity then, are you gay, Matty? What is your belief on this issue? Do you feel that nurture forced you in the your sexual identity? Were you coerced to either be hetero- or homo-sexual? Or do you believe that you are genetically sexually attracted to the people you are, be they female or male?

[Matty the Damned]

So, you are not able to substantiate your claim.

Strictly speaking, I do not have to disprove your thesis on a gay gene. You asserted the point and the onus lies on you to produce the evidence. Which you have not done.

That to one side, the concept of the gay gene is a popular one. No properly constituted research project has ever been able to pin point a "gay" gene or collection of genes, As such the matter is is not resolved.

My real issue here is that you conflate the idea of "gay", a socio-cultural phenonmenon of Western origin, with "homosexuality" which merely describes a pattern of sexual behaviour found in all human populations.

Certainly the idiosyncracy of the western gay identity is homosexuality. But it is certainly possible to be homosexual whilst eschewing the gay identity.

My point? Becareful of biological determinism.

As a gay man myself, I believe it is a genetic trait which runs in my family. My maternal aunt is homosexual and though it's unconfirmed we believe that 2 of her deceased paternal uncles were also. (perhaps my own family situation actually gives some validity to the msnbc article's conclusion)

Interesting, but not really persuasive this. Confirmation bias, I think. Considering the issue in a non-objective light ensures that you find the answers which you want to find.

Out of curiousity then, are you gay, Matty? What is your belief on this issue? Do you feel that nurture forced you in the your sexual identity? Were you coerced to either be hetero- or homo-sexual? Or do you believe that you are genetically sexually attracted to the people you are, be they female or male?


This is as example of a logical fallacy called argumentum ad hominem. My sexual orientation and identity has no bearing on the rightness or otherwise of the argument I advance in this conversation.

MtD

[leatherman]

My real issue here is that you conflate the idea of "gay", a socio-cultural phenonmenon of Western origin, with "homosexuality" which merely describes a pattern of sexual behaviour found in all human populations.

Certainly the idiosyncracy of the western gay identity is homosexuality. But it is certainly possible to be homosexual whilst eschewing the gay identity.

in america "gay" is slang for "homosexual" so those two words are often interchangeable over here in our culture.
sorry you were confused by my colloquialism  though it seems you weren't all that confused about the issue.

[Matty the Damned]

in america "gay" is slang for "homosexual" so those two words are often interchangeable over here in our culture.
sorry you were confused by my colloquialism  though it seems you weren't all that confused about the issue.

"Often interchangeable" does not mean "gay" == "homosexual". In this conversation I would submit that a high degree of precision is desireable.

MtD

[skeebo1969]

  What does the *F* word mean?

[leatherman]

in this conversation I would submit that a high degree of precision is desireable.

why?

the only reason I was concerned earlier is that there is a vast difference in meaning between "recruiting" and "nurturing".  too often in america, gays (or would you understand it better if I said "male homosexuals"?) are frequently stimgatized with molesting and/or recruiting young boys. As this article was in no way describing pedophilia, I thought that distinction needed to be made, lest people infer the wrong ideas.

Personally, I was offended by Komanes attempt at a joke linking "gay" uncles to recruiters, and that's why I spoke up to try to politely clarify the matter and not to get into another pissing match with you. As I pointed out in America that's just another way (equating gays with recruiters) that  the bigots stereotype gays, excuse me, male homosexuals and it is an inaccurate depiction of that category of people.

[Matty the Damned]

I was not referring to your exchange with Shaun, though in my opinion you do seem to have been unduly sensitive to his comment.

I responded solely to your assertion:

People are born gay because it's genetic. [sic]

As above I submit that blanket statements such as yours are not supported by the evidence to hand.

This area is a complex one. If we consider what might predispose people to particular sexual behaviours or to adopt a certain sexual identity we find that there are myriad issues we should take into account.

For example, it is generally held that one's gender is genetically determined. XX == female and XY == male, but the extensive body of scientific research covering transgender and intersex folk demonstrates that an individual's gender identity is formed by influences that are beyond which sex chromosome she inherited from her father.

Whist "gay" can be an acceptable synonym for "homosexual" in many contexts, that use of words does not serve this disucssion well. Sexual identity (and indeed gender identity) do not revolve around binary concepts of "gay" and "straight" or "male" and "female".

These are fluid things for most people (despite how any individual may identify herself) and so the language we use to talk about them should be suitably nuanced.

MtD

[BT65]

Sooooo, if there's a gene for homosexuality how do you explain bisexuality, (which I am )?

[leatherman]

Sooooo, if there's a gene for homosexuality how do you explain bisexuality, (which I am )?

This article was discussing homosexuality and how that gets passed along, so i wouldn't begin to know how to explain you Betty. 

since Matty wants to challenge the concept of being born gay, which would be generic, I guess your mom mistreated you or someone molested you to make you that way. I just don't know snce I feel that I was born gay, in the same way my homosexual friends also think that they were born this way. You'll have to discuss your sexuality with Matty since he's obviously much more knowledgeable on how people get their sexual identities since it doesn't seem to be genetic. Maybe he knows the inner workings of becoming gay, lesbian or bisexual. I'm interested in finding out how people are made to be heterosexual (or it that a genetic trait?).

I'll just keep being kind, helpful and loving to my brothers and their offspring, and get my gay genes vicariously passed along when they all continue to screw, passing along the gene that runs in our family, breeding generations of children some of whom will turn out to be gay, or homosexual or whatever the accepted phrase is in your community for being attracted to and having sex with people of the same sex.

  i just thought it was an interesting article that suggested how "gay genes" are passed along since gays don't biologically pass along their genes when having homosexual sex. I didn't realize that people here didn't accept that gay/homosexual people were born that way. Next I'm guessing that some of you people will tell me that you can convert or change my sexual attractions like those religious people claim.

[Matty the Damned]

since Matty wants to challenge the concept of being born gay, which would be generic, I guess your mom mistreated you or someone molested you to make you that way. I just don't know snce I feel that I was born gay, in the same way my homosexual friends also think that they were born this way. You'll have to discuss your sexuality with Matty since he's obviously much more knowledgeable on how people get their sexual identities since it doesn't seem to be genetic. Maybe he knows the inner workings of becoming gay, lesbian or bisexual. I'm interested in finding out how people are made to be heterosexual (or it that a genetic trait?).

I'll just keep being kind, helpful and loving to my brothers and their offspring, and get my gay genes vicariously passed along when they all continue to screw, passing along the gene that runs in our family, breeding generations of children some of whom will turn out to be gay, or homosexual or whatever the accepted phrase is in your community for being attracted to and having sex with people of the same sex.

  i just thought it was an interesting article that suggested how "gay genes" are passed along since gays don't biologically pass along their genes when having homosexual sex. I didn't realize that people here didn't accept that gay/homosexual people were born that way. Next I'm guessing that some of you people will tell me that you can convert or change my sexual attractions like those religious people claim. 

It's unfortunate that once more you resort to ad hominem calumnies and other fallicious devices to defend your position. I suspect you feel you are being attacked personally, which is not the case. I have merely challenged an assertion you have made, nothing more.

I have not disputed that there may be some genetic factor involved in determining human sexual identity. However, a reading of some relevant science suggests that there are other non-genetic factors at play, a position you seem to ignore.

Which is your perogative.

My view (formed from a reading of the research and analysis of the same) is that human sexual and gender identity is a complex interplay between genetic factors and environmental forces. This is reinforced by observing how non-western cultures respond to homosexuality.

Believe me, I can understand why you (and others) would hope for some sort of gay gene. It's the deus ex machina you hope will prove that gays are natural and normal thus confounding the homophobic bigots and haters.

Alas you cannot shape the facts to reflect your wishful thinking.

MtD

[leatherman]

see Betty? Matty does know so much more about how people figure out their sexuality, so you better ask him you question - but in a PM please , as that would be too personal and a hijack of this thread. thanks

My view (formed from a reading of the research and analysis of the same) is that human sexual and gender identity is a complex interplay between genetic factors and environmental forces.

so genetics DO play a part now? for who? how much? are some of us genetically queer and others nurtured into being homosexual?

Ah, thanks but nevermind. this thread really wasn't supposed to be how people turn out to be homosexual and I never claimed to understand all that. I just know the me and my personal friends who identify as gay know that we were born homosexual, and here in the Bible-Belt region of the US, we take a serious stand against being accused (even in jest) of "recruiting" others into "being gay".

[Matty the Damned]

see Betty? Matty does know so much more about how people figure out their sexuality, so you better ask him you question - but in a PM please , as that would be too personal and a hijack of this thread. thanks
so genetics DO play a part now? for who? how much? are some of us genetically queer and others nurtured into being homosexual?

Ah, thanks but nevermind. this thread really wasn't supposed to be how people turn out to be homosexual and I never claimed to understand all that. I just know the me and my personal friends who identify as gay know that we were born homosexual, and here in the Bible-Belt region of the US, we take a serious stand against being accused (even in jest) of "recruiting" others into "being gay".

It seems that for now there is nothing of substance to be gained by engaging you any further.

I look forward to what others may have to say.

MtD

[GSOgymrat]

I look forward to what others may have to say.

MtD

I'd just like to add that it is difficult to determine nature versus nurture when addressing a simple behavior, much less something as complex as human sexual attraction and sexual behavior. For one thing, we know that behavior can actually change brain's structure and chemistry. Even if you see that the brains of homosexuals are different than the brains of heterosexuals you can't be sure if the neurologic difference causes the behavior or if the behavior caused the neurologic difference. Also, even if people are "born homosexual" it could be congenital rather than genetic, meaning that hormones of the mother or some other biological process produces a physiological difference in the fetus that changes behavior.

It is highly unlikely there is one factor that controls sexual attraction. As with any complex behavior, there are multiple factors involved. That is why, in my opinion, the biological argument is not sufficient when advocating the rights of GLBT people. We deserve to be treated with respect and dignity because all of us are complex, unique creations and we should celebrate diversity rather than trying to force people into a prescribed set of behaviors.

[Dachshund]

Personally, I was offended by Komanes attempt at a joke linking "gay" uncles to recruiters, and that's why I spoke up to try to politely clarify the matter and not to get into another pissing match with you. As I pointed out in America that's just another way (equating gays with recruiters) that  the bigots stereotype gays, excuse me, male homosexuals and it is an inaccurate depiction of that category of people.

It's the exact same bigotry you employ when you mockingly refer to heterosexuals as breeders.

[J.R.E.]

It's the exact same bigotry you employ when you mockingly refer to heterosexuals as breeders.

I hate that word "Breeders"  But in all fairness,  it's been used by several people in these forums.  Look at the Jersey shores thread. ( just one example)

R

[Dachshund]

I hate that word "Breeders"  But in all fairness,  it's been used by several people in these forums.  Look at the Jersey shores thread. ( just one example)

R

In all fairness I was only commenting in regards to this thread. Couldn't be bothered reading Jersey Shores.

[leatherman]

It's the exact same bigotry you employ when you mockingly refer to heterosexuals as breeders.

I never mockingly said "breeders". That's how you read it.

However, that's exactly what heterosexuals do in the continuation of the human race - breed more children. Just like genetics, it's a biological thing. I guess I could have said "procreate" to spare your sensiblities but this article was just talking about the general science of passing along genetic material to future generations.

[Ann]

I never mockingly said "breeders". That's how you read it.

However, that's exactly what heterosexuals do in the continuation of the human race - breed more children. Just like genetics, it's a biological thing. I guess I could have said "procreate" to spare your sensiblities but this article was just talking about the general science of passing along genetic material to future generations.

Every time I've ever heard or read the term "breeder" being used by a gay man, it was being used with obvious contempt. That's why offence is taken.

[RapidRod]

Every time I've ever heard or read the term "breeder" being used by a gay man, it was being used with obvious contempt. That's why offence is taken.

I'm gay and I'm a breeder but it has nothing to do with being gay but it is sexual. I raise dogs.

[Ann]

I'm gay and I'm a breeder but it has nothing to do with being gay but it is sexual. I raise dogs.

That's not the usage being discussed and you know it.

[denb45]

I really hate the term "Homosexual" it's a horrible 40 yr. old out-dated definition of what a "GAY" person is
and sounds so dam clinical to me, and in IMO, I really don't think that word even fits-in in the 2010 pop-culture     and as for ANY of my Uncles are Aunts being Gay  NO, I'm the only one in this generation
that I know of, so I got my gayness somewhere else, it didn't come form ANY of my family members  

[leatherman]

I'm gay and I'm a breeder but it has nothing to do with being gay but it is sexual. I raise dogs.

why, me too!  cocker spaniels

the three boyz (Aries, Zeus and Joxer) I have with me now are the great-great grandsons to the very first spaniel that Randy got me over 25 yrs. ago. That dam's name was "Apollonia's Purple Reign". (of course that came from the Prince movie "Purple Rain", and we played off that name to get the name of our pet store "It's Reigning Pets" and that's how I got my domain name of "reigningpages.com"

[skeebo1969]

I'm gay and I'm a breeder but it has nothing to do with being gay but it is sexual. I raise dogs.

  Mr. Vick is that you?

  I view breeder much like the term cracker, neither being very offensive at all.  Heterosexuals and white people haven't been discriminated against... kinda hard to offend the offensive party if you ask me.  All this hoopla   has me wondering what the motives are for such an arguement, honestly.

  

[RapidRod]

What do you say when heterosexuals use the term, "Breeder?" I don't believe the word "breeder" is gay specific.

[denb45]

I'm gay and I'm a breeder but it has nothing to do with being gay but it is sexual. I raise dogs.

"Breeder" "Heterosexual", and "Homosexual"  sounds very offensive and insulting to me, why are these words even being used in this forum 

[skeebo1969]

"Breeder" "Heterosexual", and "Homosexual"  sounds very offensive and insulting to me, why are these words even being used in this forum 

  I agree... truth be told all we are is a bunch of Fuckers!

[RapidRod]

"Breeder" "Heterosexual", and "Homosexual"  sounds very offensive and insulting to me, why are these words even being used in this forum 

I would rather be called a "Mother Breeder" than the other. Less offensive. 

[denb45]

I would rather be called a "Mother Breeder" than the other. Less offensive.  

I prefer "Str8", or "LGBT" sounds more modern- up to date, and less offensive  

Str8 meaning sex w/ opposite sex such as a man & woman

and, LGBT (or GLBT) is an initialism referring collectively to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people. In use since the 1990s and Today 

[Rev. Moon]

I prefer "Str8", or "LGBT" sounds more modern- up to date, and less offensive  

Str8 meaning sex w/ opposite sex such as a man & woman

and, LGBT (or GLBT) is an initialism referring collectively to lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people. In use since the 1990s and Today 

Trysexual is better for me.  Labels are just too restrictive (and in my opinion they are primarily social constructs).  At some point many of us have dabbled with a person of the gender that's not part of our main persuasion.

Back to original point, if genetics are part of my gay tendencies I must be some sort of mutation in my family.  I can't find another person in my family (whether here in the States or the old world who is either gay or lesbian).  Moreover, I won't be able to nurture any nieces or nephews as both of my siblings have chosen not to have kids of their own.

[Dachshund]

I never mockingly said "breeders". That's how you read it.

However, that's exactly what heterosexuals do in the continuation of the human race - breed more children. Just like genetics, it's a biological thing. I guess I could have said "procreate" to spare your sensiblities but this article was just talking about the general science of passing along genetic material to future generations.

You ladies continue to forget about the search function. I could pull up the thread where you did use "breeder" as a derogative term. The delicate sensibilities of the leatherman were in full bloom after the mods chastised him. Actually I could care less what you call people, just another lesson in hypocrisy for the kiddies.

[skeebo1969]

Actually I could care less what you call people, just another lesson in hypocrisy for the kiddies.

Sounds more like an attempt at character assassination if you ask me, something I notice you take great pleasure in doing.  I think other than your usual followers the rest of us are big boys and girls and don't need any lesson from a teacher who obviously plays favorites.

[Miss Philicia]

Every time I've ever heard or read the term "breeder" being used by a gay man, it was being used with obvious contempt. That's why offence is taken.

No, I see it as more tit-for-tat after being called faggot by the majority population.. like calling a cracker a cracker by black folks.

Have you ever been called a faggot?

On the other hand it's context -- I might call you one Ann but you'd know it was in jest.

OPRESS ++

[leatherman]

I could pull up the thread where you did use "breeder" as a derogative term.

hmmm. once again, your interpertation of my words. And my sensibilites were/are not delicate per se. I was only defending my statements as I am now. Try to belittle my part in this discussion all you want; but I think that just makes you look like a jerk.

I'm not a hypocrite at all. I believe that the word "breeder" definitely applies to woman who is artifically inseminated and ends up with octuplets. Some of YOU may interpret the word "breeder" to be derogative; but I do not, nor do some of my straight friends and gay friends.  Perhaps YOU people who are offended need to make up a list of words so I know what not to say.

mikie
(who sees that no one was offended by being called "fuckers")

[carousel]

Every time I've ever heard or read the term "breeder" being used by a gay man, it was being used with obvious contempt. That's why offence is taken.

But the difference is that is not followed up by acts of violence and worse.

[Ann]

No, I see it as more tit-for-tat after being called faggot by the majority population.. like calling a cracker a cracker by black folks.

Have you ever been called a faggot?

On the other hand it's context -- I might call you one Ann but you'd know it was in jest.

OPRESS ++

I've never been called a faggot, no, but I've never called someone that either. As for using it in a tit-for-tat manner, two wrongs don't make a right and we're never going to get rid of the use of derogatory name-calling if that is the prevalent attitude.

And yes, context is everything. Now that you mention it, I have seen the term used here in jest before now, but I've also seen it used here with contempt to denote any straight person. I've also seen the word faggot used in jest here too (by gay men), but it's not a word I use even in jest. I don't like the word.

But the difference is that is not followed up by acts of violence and worse.

Don't be so sure that's always the case. There was an incident at my ASO where a gay man repeatedly called a woman"breeder", threatened to kill her and started slapping her in front of her two young children. Luckily others were in the next room and came to her rescue before too much damage was done.

[GSOgymrat]

"Breeder" "Heterosexual", and "Homosexual"  sounds very offensive and insulting to me, why are these words even being used in this forum 

Heterosexual and homosexual are clinical terms. The term "gay" is associated with a cultural identity, where homosexual and heterosexual are descriptions of behavior or attraction. There are men who have sex with men, and women who have sex with women, under certain circumstance that would not identify themselves as gay or lesbian. I wasn't using those terms to insult anyone, I was using them because they are more accurate. You may find the terms offensive but I think they are completely appropriate given the topic of this thread.

Breeder is a slang term and is supposed to be insulting.

[carousel]

Sorry Ann, but I don't see how you could compare the two.

10,000 people gathered in Trafalger Square last year becuase yet another gay person was beaten to death in the middle of London.  

Gay people do not go around beating or killing people just becuase they are straight.

[Matty the Damned]

Sorry Ann, but I don't see how you could compare the two.

10,000 people gathered in Trafalger Square last year becuase yet another gay person was beaten to death in the middle of London.  

Gay people do not go around beating or killing people just becuase they are straight.

Ah how about a little perspective?

The term "breeder" is used as a perjorative. It is only ever used to demean or belittle a person, much in the same way straight people use "faggot".

Ann was merely pointing out the contradiction in Leatherman complaining about a harmless (and not unfunny) joke by Shaun as offensve then using a term of derision such as "breeder" himself.

MtD

[denb45]

Heterosexual and homosexual are clinical terms. The term "gay" is associated with a cultural identity, where homosexual and heterosexual are descriptions of behavior or attraction. There are men who have sex with men, and women who have sex with women, under certain circumstance that would not identify themselves as gay or lesbian. I wasn't using those terms to insult anyone, I was using them because they are more accurate. You may find the terms offensive but I think they are completely appropriate given the topic of this thread.

Breeder is a slang term and is supposed to be insulting.

Heterosexual and homosexual are clinical terms, and do agree with that, it just really doesn't fit in today's society, all other derogatory slang-terms are completely inappropriate, and we all know what they are, so I won't post them in here, to explain anything else...enough said 

[leatherman]

I think I liked this thread much better when Matty and I were discussing whether gays were genetically or biologically created (though I still don't see the big difference there, in layman's terms ) or nurtured into being.  At least that seemed to be a little bit closer to the topic/article I originally posted about. 

SO I take it thatn that many of you don't agree that gay uncles prepetuate their genes by nuturing and encouraging their families to breed procreate, thus resulting in more "homosexuals" being born?

Breeder is a slang term and is supposed to be insulting.

breeder is NOT slang. It is a legitmate word. Plants, animals and people all breed and/or can be bred. It refers to the biological acts of procreation that result in further generations of said plant, animals or persons. I am not responsible for people that have twisted the meaning of of a legitimate word into some sort of offensive slang.

mikie
(who always thought he was just born "gay")

[leatherman]

Ann was merely pointing out the contradiction in Leatherman complaining about a harmless (and not unfunny) joke by Shaun as offensve then using a term of derision such as "breeder" himself.

harmless and "not unfunny" in YOUR opinion. I was offended, obviously like some of you were offended by my choice of the word "breed". So it's okay to insinuate that gays/homosexuals/faggots "recruit" people into being "homosexual"; but not okay to say that straight people breed/procreate/produce offspring.

thanks for clarifying all that. now I reallly do need that list of things that "might" offend y'all so that I don't step on your toes; but please go ahead and stomp on mine.

mikie
(whose delicate sensiblities have been offended now )

[GSOgymrat]

breeder is NOT slang. It is a legitmate word. Plants, animals and people all breed and/or can be bred. It refers to the biological acts of procreation that result in further generations of said plant, animals or persons.

Breeder is to animal husbandry as faggot is to a bundle of sticks.

[Matty the Damned]

harmless and "not unfunny" in YOUR opinion. I was offended, obviously like some of you were offended by my choice of the word "breed". So it's okay to insinuate that gays/homosexuals/faggots "recruit" people into being "homosexual"; but not okay to say that straight people breed/procreate/produce offspring.

thanks for clarifying all that. now I reallly do need that list of things that "might" offend y'all so that I don't step on your toes; but please go ahead and stomp on mine.

mikie
(whose delicate sensiblities have been offended now )

Just because you find something offensive doesn't make it wrong. It just means that you didn't get the joke.

There's an old gay rights slogan: 10% is not enough - Convert and Recruit! that's the place Shaun was coming from.

Another example would be the last episode of a 90s sitcom called Ellen where the title character did a skit about lesbian "recruitment" and a toaster oven. I believe that meme lives on in these forums in a couple of forms.

We often play on the homophobic notion of gay recruitment for humorous effect.

So your offence was misplaced.

There's a difference between someone cracking a joke you don't get and you slinging a perjorative like "breeder" around. And don't try that "breeder-is-just-a-word" defence either. You know exactly what it means and how offensive it's calculated to be.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not sticking up for the heterosexuals. They can look after themselves, but this idea that "breeder" is some twee little term used by charmingly Wildean gay chaps is simply untrue.

Where I come from the "breeder" is the shortened version. The full insult here is "breeder filth". It is designed to deeply offensive. And it's known to be. You don't even have to have heard it before to instantly know you're being run down.

My point? Don't be surprised if some folk get all fucked up when you use it.

MtD

/edit: missing word/

[leatherman]

There's a difference between someone cracking a joke you don't get and you slinging a perjorative like "breeder" around. And don't try that "breeder-is-just-a-word" defence either. You know exactly what it means and how offensive it's calculated to be.

So you think you know what I think? Why that's awesome that you can read my mind!  I hope you're reading what I'm saying to you now in my head.  I have already told you how I understand the word, just because you "think" it means something else does not make me wrong. If you really knew me, you would never think I meant it offensively, so please don't try to say that you know how I think, as obviously you do not. Stick to the muck in your own mind.

Just because you find something offensive doesn't make it wrong.

exactly! see, we do agree. Just because some people were offended by what I wrote doesn't make what I wrote wrong.

So your offence was misplaced.

therefore all you people offended by me biolgoically discussing that people breed and pass on genetic material, your offense was just misplaced.

There's an old gay rights slogan: 10% is not enough - Convert and Recruit! that's the place Shaun was coming from.

maybe old gays in austrailia. I'm never heard that before. And quite honestly, gays in the southern part of America, the bible belt, would never say something like that. Slogans like that would get a lynch mob after you pretty quick.

Breeder is to animal husbandry

evolution says that people are just evolved animals. personally if more people cared about "breeding" (ie what genetics they were passing along), or "social breeding" or being "in-bred", etc (looky there! other uses of that same word. are those offensive too?) maybe we'd have healthier people on the planet by now.

[Hellraiser]

You really find the terms heterosexual and homosexual offensive?  I could say I find the term human being offensive because I think people is much more modern, but that's just silly.  Words have meaning as long as they in use in the modern lexicon.  I actually think gay is a little bit weird because older people still use gay as a synonym for happy and queer as a synonym for weird.  I die a little bit inside when someone refers to themselves as queer, because in my mind it's like they just called themselves weird.  It's also a stupid way to try to claim yet another term to define sexual identity which is mostly a hopeless cause anyway.

The article (before all this got derailed) was about Uncles caring for the offspring of their siblings.  Who share 50% of their DNA and thus the ability to carry on their genes.  The author of the article intimated that if being gay is genetic this is their only way to "procreate" sort of vicariously.

PS:  I think you're all acting like 10 year olds.

[RapidRod]

Posted by: Hellraiser PS:  I think you're all acting like 10 year olds.

[Ann]

Breeder is to animal husbandry as faggot is to a bundle of sticks.

evolution says that people are just evolved animals. personally if more people cared about "breeding" (ie what genetics they were passing along), or "social breeding" or being "in-bred", etc (looky there! other uses of that same word. are those offensive too?) maybe we'd have healthier people on the planet by now.

Well Mikie, I guess the next time you refer to straight folks as animal husbandry practitioners, I can refer to you as a bundle of sticks.

[skeebo1969]

PS:  I think you're all acting like 10 year olds.

 How come Rodney gets to have the giant laughing emoticons and all we get is these little boring yellow dots with lines?

[Matty the Damned]

How come Rodney gets to have the giant laughing emoticons and all we get is these little boring yellow dots with lines?

'coz he's worked out how to inline an image.

MtD

[RapidRod]

How come Rodney gets to have the giant laughing emoticons and all we get is these little boring yellow dots with lines?

As the commercial states with the two little girls and the pony. YOU DIDN'T ASK.

[skeebo1969]

'coz he's worked out how to inline an image.

MtD

Oh! Are you serious?!?!  Oh, wow..  I was joking.

[Matty the Damned]

Oh! Are you serious?!?!  Oh, wow..  I was joking.

No. I just felt you needed stuff explained to you.

MtD

[Moffie65]

  What does the *F* word mean?

Since Skeebs needs clarification on things I thought I would clear this one up.

F.U.C.K.  was an acronym that was placed on the top board of the stocks used in the early colonial days of this country to punish someone "For Unauthorized Carnal Knowledge".  Seems like the early Christians gave us this cool and usefull word, for which I am eternally grateful.  Somehow, between now and then, it has also become a "bad" word by the same crowd.  Oh republican Christains. 

Hope this clears it up for you Thomas.  :O

[Hellraiser]

Since Skeebs needs clarification on things I thought I would clear this one up.

F.U.C.K.  was an acronym that was placed on the top board of the stocks used in the early colonial days of this country to punish someone "For Unauthorized Carnal Knowledge".  Seems like the early Christians gave us this cool and usefull word, for which I am eternally grateful.  Somehow, between now and then, it has also become a "bad" word by the same crowd.  Oh republican Christains. 

Hope this clears it up for you Thomas.  :O

That's an urban legend.  The actual etymology of the word is unknown although my money is on a dialect of Norwegian which uses Fukka as a verb meaning to copulate.

[BT65]

That's an urban legend.  The actual etymology of the word is unknown although my money is on a dialect of Norwegian which uses Fukka as a verb meaning to copulate.

Don't argue with Daddy Tim.

[skeebo1969]

Since Skeebs needs clarification on things I thought I would clear this one up.

F.U.C.K.  was an acronym that was placed on the top board of the stocks used in the early colonial days of this country to punish someone "For Unauthorized Carnal Knowledge".  Seems like the early Christians gave us this cool and usefull word, for which I am eternally grateful.  Somehow, between now and then, it has also become a "bad" word by the same crowd.  Oh republican Christains. 

Hope this clears it up for you Thomas.  :O

I meant the other *F* word

 FROG

Thomas
(who persiates Mathew and Timmy splainin things to me)

[Ann]

That's an urban legend.  The actual etymology of the word is unknown although my money is on a dialect of Norwegian which uses Fukka as a verb meaning to copulate.

"Fuck" does NOT stand for "for unlawful carnal knowledge" or
"fornication under consent of the king".  It is not an acronym for
anything at all.

   It is a very old word, recorded in English since the 15th
century (few acronyms predate the 20th century), with cognates
in other Germanic languages.  The Random House Historical
Dictionary of American Slang (Random House, 1994, ISBN
0-394-54427-7) cites Middle Dutch fokken = "to thrust, copulate
with"; Norwegian dialect fukka = "to copulate"; and Swedish
dialect focka = "to strike, push, copulate" and fock = "penis".
Although German ficken may enter the picture somehow, it is
problematic in having e-grade, or umlaut, where all the others have
o-grade or zero-grade of the vowel.

read more at the source

[Moffie65]

Since Skeebs needs clarification on things I thought I would clear this one up.

F.U.C.K.  was an acronym that was placed on the top board of the stocks used in the early colonial days of this country to punish someone "For Unauthorized Carnal Knowledge".  Seems like the early Christians gave us this cool and usefull word, for which I am eternally grateful.  Somehow, between now and then, it has also become a "bad" word by the same crowd.  Oh republican Christains. 

Hope this clears it up for you Thomas.  :O

I apologise for the error, and back out of the room to my corner.  I should have known I was wrong, and refrain from revisiting this thread.  Assholes!

[skeebo1969]

I apologise for the error, and back out of the room to my corner.  I should have known I was wrong, and refrain from revisiting this thread.  Assholes!

  Rut roe, so what does asshole have to do with all this?  Instead of talking about assholes  can we discuss a topic I want to talk about now?  Anyone hear about Phil Harris and his massive stroke?

[RapidRod]

  Rut roe, so what does asshole have to do with all this?  Instead of talking about assholes  can we discuss a topic I want to talk about now?  Anyone hear about Phil Harris and his massive stroke?

Tom that was sad to hear. He had that operation and was doing well then the next thing you heard was that he passed away. You never know.

[skeebo1969]

Tom that was sad to hear. He had that operation and was doing well then the next thing you heard was that he passed away. You never know.

  Out of all the guys he was my favorite one.   His boys gave him hell, but one thing you could tell is he loved the ground they walked on.  He was always concerned about them and it was this concern, IMO that got him back out there far too early after the scare they had last season with that clot in his lung.

[leatherman]

Assholes!

That was beautiful Moffie and I couldn't agree with you more.

However , we discussed this earlier - you included.
They are "fuckers" not "assholes". Though no one has yet to give me that list of approved/unapproved words, I do know that Skeebo helped us find out that no one has challenged the epithet "fucker". Why even a moderator has tacitly given approval of that word by continuing the "discussion" along those lines rather than trying to guide this train wreck back to the original topic.

Now all you fuckers can go back to fucking discussing whatever the fuck it is that you fucking want to discuss, since hardly any of your fuckers seem the least fucking bit to be interested in talking about the fucking topic. 

Who the fuck is Phil Harris anyway? Ah! all Praise to Google.

Happy Valentine's Day Assholes and/or Fuckers!
(take your pick. we're sure to find out which one is more offensive soon. LOL)

leatherman aka the Fucking Great Big Bundle of Sticks 
(who is in a good mood cause he's gonna go get laid today and who as the OP really hopes some line has been crossed enough now to get a reasonable moderator to close this thread )

[skeebo1969]

leatherman aka the Fucking Great Big Bundle of Sticks 
(who is in a good mood cause he's gonna go get laid today and who as the OP really hopes some line has been crossed enough now to get a reasonable moderator to close this thread )

  I might be getting lucky tonight also....  I better go shave.

[denb45]

The Year of the Tiger begins on February 14, 2010  Chinese New Year: Year of the Metal Tiger***** Happy Chinese New Year***** to one and all!

****Kung Hei Fat Choi!**** all you Assholes and Fuckers  

[RapidRod]

  I might be getting lucky tonight also....  I better go shave.

I better go to the store. Another storm warning with 8'' and winds to add to the 28" we already have on the ground. Damn global warming. 

[leatherman]

I'm sure glad I moved from OH to SC. Though we just had 3 inches of sn@w on Friday (even down at Myrtle Beach!), it was all melted by today. However up in the part of OH where I was living, they have 36 inches of sn@w on the ground and you know that shit ain't melting until April

Kung Foo to you too, Den!

Happy VD everyone else!
mikie
(the Coca-Cola addict who doesn't say or type the two evil words: sn@w or P&psi)