POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Dragonette on July 03, 2007, 06:45:42 am
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I have been hearing that certain things are dangerous for us to eat esp with low CD4s, because of toxoplasmosis and other problems which I am not sure what they are:
smoked meat (salmon, ham, spanish jamon, etc), roast beef, sushi, any kind of raw, or not completely well done meat (including in vinegar like haring), sauseges like chorizo, salami etc
also: french cheeses: camambert, goat cheese, roquefort (sp.?), and any cheese which is "soft", smelly or has mold in it.
is this true? what is really dangerous? I do like to eat all of these things... ???
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Dragonette,
You may want to check out the info on this page:
http://rileychildrenshospital.com/document.jsp?locid=3171
And of course it's important to learn which foods might impair the effectiveness of medications. For example, on my regime I'm not supposed to have grapefruit or its juice (which I miss severely), or heavy doses of garlic.
Daniel
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that's a very comprehensive link, thanks!
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You're welcome. (We try when we can.) (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k267/deemark/Emoticons/newwink.jpg)
Some of those things I have avoided all my life anyhow, like raw meat or undercooked eggs. That's just gross! LOL
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The list is pretty comprehensive. Thanks Daniel.
One thing to watch out for is cheese. Some cheese is made from milk that isn't pasteurized, so read those labels. The soft cheeses you mentioned were included in the past because of listeriosis.
There are commercial washes available for vegetables and fruits, or you can use a cap full of bleach in a gallon of water to rinse them.
Aside from salad bars, steer clear of buffets. Often, the food isn't kept warm enough to prohibit bacterial growth. I personally don't like those buffets where people serve themselves. Especially children. YUCK! Who knows where they've had their hands. EEP!
Best bet is to eschew them altogether.
Oh, and I commiserate with Daniel. I love pink grapefruit, but alas, am not allowed them. ((sigh)).
HUGS,
Mark
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You're welcome. (We try when we can.) (http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k267/deemark/Emoticons/newwink.jpg)
Some of those things I have avoided all my life anyhow, like raw meat or undercooked eggs. That's just gross! LOL
I can't resist a "tartar steak".. raw meat, uncooked egg.. I must admit I feel like a villain when I prepare one lol but damn it's so yummy...
I'm surprised about ham, smoked meat, salmon, chorizo, salami, etc.. It never came to my mind that those could be dangerous. I will ask my doctor next visit ! Thanks for the info!
Milker.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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There are many, many items on that list that I continue to consume. Guess I'm just lucky, so far. Oddly, grapefruit juice is the only one that makes me nervous, and I don't consume it often at all - not like I used to. Everything in moderation? :)
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I love steak tar-tar but its a no-no :( but even before being positive it gave me an upset stomach to eat it...i usually paid for it later
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Hey Milker,
I hadn't heard about the chorizo. If a food is cooked thoroughly, there shouldn't be a problem.
The cold cuts, luncheon meats, bologna, salami, etc., are among the most dangerous things you can eat because they are made of ground meats, which means any contaminant is mixed throughout, and often are not handled properly.
I have known quite a few people to contract one type of food poisoning or another from cold cuts. If someone whose immune system is seriously compromised is going to consume them, they should be nuked for 30 to 60 seconds or until heated thoroughly.
As for steak tartare, I don't mind medium rare, but not raw - and with a raw egg no less!
If your immune system is weakened, I would probably not eat that at all.
HUGS,
Mark
(Who once worked as a butcher/fish monger and won't eat raw stuff).
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Hi,
I never stopped eating cheeses, even when my t-cells were at 16. And I was eating cold-cuts also, and fortunately never got ill. There are times when I would Nuke the cold-cuts, just to play it on the safe side.
A lot of food safety deals in how it is prepared and handled. One example,... Make sure you wash the cutting board very well ! The cutting board is where a lot of bacteria can be transferred.
Ray
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As for steak tartare, I don't mind medium rare, but not raw - and with a raw egg no less!
Yes, raw meat, raw egg, that's how it should be :'(
When I'm in France I eat a lot of "charcuterie", which is the cold cuts as you call them.. raw sausages of all sorts, cheeses, etc.. I always thought there was some kind of equivalent to a pasteurization for those products, no?
>:(
Milker.
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When I'm in France I eat a lot of "charcuterie", which is the cold cuts as you call them.. raw sausages of all sorts, cheeses, etc.. I always thought there was some kind of equivalent to a pasteurization for those products, no?
Sorry, no, Milkie. Charcuterie is not protected against bacteria any more than artisan cheeses are made with pasteurized milk.
Brent
(Who can not afford such niceties anymore anyways)
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I've never let the grapefruit thing scare me. I love grapefruit and have it for breakfast every Sunday. I guess once/week isn't going to kill you.
But, now here is a great example of how the VIRUS has affected by brain. The other day I popped into the store to buy some oranges. When I got home, I noticed a got a bag of grapefruit instead. I could have sworn the bag said "oranges". They certainly looked like oranges to me. That's why I'm on disability. If I can't tell the difference between oranges and grapefruits, then what good am I?
robert
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Rat poison...for example.
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well, the grapefruit can be dangerous for those on drugs like Lipitor because evidently the medication gets into the blood stream too quickly and therefore can put the Liver or other things at risk. So, there are times when food can be a problem. For instance, Most of my meds say to avoid herbs - which means I try to avoid ginger and other herbal remedies for colds.
And even though my Tcells are in the 200 range, I occasionally have Roast Beef, Pizza with peperoni, or the dreaded smoked salmon.
But my rules of what to eat are pretty simple: 1) if the meds come with a warning to avoid certain foods, I don't have them, 2) eat the most colorful fruits and vegies, 3) eat small well balanced meals about 4 times a day at home, 4) eat only on occasion out - not on a regular basis.
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That photo of the steak tartar makes me want to hurl. Gross.
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Is grapefruit bad only if you're on meds?
Milker.
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I eat everything. I guess that is why I put my weight back on so quickly, except grapefruit, yuck.
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And lest we forget the biggest heartbreaker of them all:
No oysters. Long ago my favorite meal consisted of two dozen oysters, blood-rare steak, lightly steamed veggies loaded with butter and crème brulee. Between cholesterol/fat restrictions and possible bacterial contamination, virtually everything listed above is a no-no.
Oatmeal and dry wheat toast can't compare but at least won't hasten my death.
Brent
(Who used to love food)
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That photo of the steak tartar makes me want to hurl. Gross.
The REAL steak tartare is made with a special read meat known in French as Chevaline. I'll leave it to Milkie to translate, but must admit to having loved it.
Brent
(Who ate some odd things when he lived in Paris)
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The REAL steak tartare is made with a special read meat known in French as Chevaline. I'll leave it to Milkie to translate, but must admit to having loved it.
Brent
(Who ate some odd things when he lived in Paris)
I'm afraid many more members would hurl if I translate :D But you're absolutely right, this IS the BEST tartar!
Milker.
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I keep seeing this steak tartar item pop up when discussions of "dangerous" food are started. Who eats this anymore? I am serious when I say I dont see this on ANY menu, at any restaurant I go to. Ok , ok, so maybe I don't go to 5 star restaurants....but who the f*** does???Raw meat.
We went to a BBQ and one item was tuna fish. One of the hosts had purchased a HUGE chunk of very nice tuna and he cooked the whole thing on the grill. Needless to say Kurt and I didnt eat any of it. (Kurt does not eat any seafood and I was wary of the temperature it reached. A lot of people who ate the tuna got sick.
You just have to be careful.
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Chevaline? Horse meat?!
Oh, God.
On a related note....I just found out the barbecue I am going to is going to have an actual PIG being barbecued- like the whole pig...head, hooves & all- on a pit.
Just baked beans for me, please.
I like my edible meats processed, cooked & unidentifiable.
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Chevaline? Horse meat?!
Oh, God.
On a related note....I just found out the barbecue I am going to is going to have an actual PIG being barbecued- like the whole pig...head, hooves & all- on a pit.
Just baked beans for me, please.
I like my edible meats processed, cooked & unidentifiable.
....and over eighteen.
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Hunter... no pulled pork barbeque for you?
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I had a horse meat burger in Nice once about 25 years ago.
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It's super tasty and ultralow fat. But I doubt few American would attempt it.
In Jean Marc's last few weeks it was the only thing he'd eat. I went to the special butcher with the plastic horse head over the door (ringed in red neon) and would order 100 grams of ground chevaline. As he was pretty much dead anyways, the doctors didn't say a word. And the hospital food was just nauseating.
Brent
(Who hears strains of Juliette Greco whenever he thinks of life in Paris)
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I keep seeing this steak tartar item pop up when discussions of "dangerous" food are started. Who eats this anymore? I am serious when I say I dont see this on ANY menu, at any restaurant I go to. Ok , ok, so maybe I don't go to 5 star restaurants....but who the f*** does???Raw meat.
I do (or I guess I did until recently). I buy ground meat, eggs, and voila, I have 80% of the tartar done. And when I went to France last month it was my first lunch. I guess it was my last tartar too :(
Milker.
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I have to say I draw the line at steak tartare but I have enjoyed pan seared pig intestines and quail eggs.
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I eat everything. I guess that is why I put my weight back on so quickly, except grapefruit, yuck.
I, like RapiRod, eat everything I used to with no consequences. I will check with my doctor to see what he says. Not saying that any of you are not correct, just that he knows my drug regimen and blood work.
Thanks to all for the info!
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I have to say I draw the line at steak tartare but I have enjoyed pan seared pig intestines and quail eggs.
Oh you mean chitlins...remember they must be simmered until tender(2-3 hours), a process that emits a detestable stench.
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I eat everything and too much of it!
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I think I'm going to be sick with all the talk of raw meat. Or, maybe I'm horny with all the talk of the raw stuff. ;)
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I've given up many foods that I just salivate for ... except.. Beluga Caviar... I buy imported from Russia through NYC... its one of my few pleasures in life... 2lbs cost me dearly but, it has such a intense and rich flavor... I've had this for breakfast every morning since childhood...
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As an update: as promised, the barbecue yesterday had the whole pig there. I simply couldn't eat any of it with the damn pig's head smiling back at me from across the way. Very 'Lord of the Flies'. I stuck with baked beans, corn, slaw, pickles and chips.
I once got grossed out watching a documentary about the meat industry & didn't eat red meat for about 5 years. This thread may very well inspire the same thing. Seered pig intestines? Barf.
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should we move on to beef cheeks?
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Hey folks,
If your CD4s are above 500, many of the food restrictions are definitely overkill. So, if your numbers are good, eat away.
But for those whose immune systems are below that level, a bit of caution is probably wise. I should mention that I was not quite truthful in my post regarding raw foods. I love sushi. Always have. Probably always will and my numbers are high enough I allow myself to indulge from time to time.
As for Chevaline, I had it when I was in Paris years ago, as steak tartare. It was wonderful.
The point of watching what you eat isn't that these foods will give you problems, but that, if they do, will your body be strong enough to fight off the subsequent problem without it developing further into something like septicemia.
By the way, the 500 CD4 cut off wasn't arbitrary on my part. That was the level at which the docs said we should be cautious back in the olden days prior to the cocktails. If your CD4s dropped below 500, they started talking meds and dumping other precautionary information on you.
Bucko, you devil!!!!! >:( >:( >:( You would have to remind me of oysters on the half shell. Oy, did I love those things.
Oh, and Beluga caviar, or even Sevruga, or American Golden. YUM! Love the stuff.
Bear, you were wise to avoid the Tuna. This idea of serving tuna seared on the outside and raw in the middle seems so popular these days. But kids, if it isn't sushi grade tuna, I want it cooked!
The bottom line is to use common sense, know your own body and then enjoy.
HUGS,
Mark
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My body is pretty far below the 500 mark. Somewhere near 300 now....and that's the highest I have ever known it to be since I have no idea what my baseline might have been absent HIV. Nobody ever measures the t cell levels of the negative and healthy. When I was first diagnosed, I was petrified of eating just about everything. Generally speaking, I've eaten basically anything I wanted since crossing over 200. Thanks for the advice, Mark. I guess I will be ok since most of the stuff that is in the questionable area is stuff that grosses me out & I won't eat anyway. Raw fish eggs, pig intestines & meat fresh off the kill wouldn't have made it to my plate anyway.
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What, no hog innards?
I would have gorged myself on the pig at the barbecue, I love my dead animal.
Many people in this area will roast a goat that way for special occasions. Different, but tasty.
HUGS,
Mark
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How Safe Is Seafood?
For over two decades, researchers proclaiming the health benefits of fish — it's low in fat, high in protein, and rich in cardioprotective omega-3 fatty acids — have encouraged Americans to up their intake. The result: Each of us now eats a record 16.6 pounds every year, including double the amount of shrimp and salmon we consumed in 1994. But lately, headline-grabbing studies have warned that dangerous contaminants in lakes, rivers, and oceans may make seafood too risky.
The biggest health hazard is mercury, a toxic heavy metal linked to neurological problems in developing fetuses and children. Long-living fish have the highest concentrations of mercury. Last fall, reports from both the Institute of Medicine and the Harvard Medical School agreed with a 2004 governmental advisory that four mercury-tainted fish — shark, swordfish, tilefish (also called golden snapper or golden bass), and king mackerel — should never be eaten by pregnant women, women who may become pregnant, nursing mothers, and kids under 12. The advisory also recommended limiting the intake of canned albacore tuna and tuna steaks to 6 ounces per week for this group.
For almost everyone else, however, the studies determined that the benefits of moderate seafood consumption greatly outweigh the risks. In fact, the Harvard research found that people who have one to two servings of seafood each week might reduce their heart attack risk by a whopping 36 percent. If you're adding more seafood to your family's diet, vary the menu to reduce the risk of mercury contamination from a single source; choose low-mercury varieties like catfish, shrimp, and scallops; and switch to chunk light tuna, which usually averages one-third the mercury levels of albacore.
PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls), chemical compounds banned in the 1970s as probable carcinogens, are also found in some seafood. In 2004, a study found that farmed salmon, which accounts for 90 percent of the salmon in supermarkets, contained markedly higher levels of PCBs than wild salmon. The reason: Farmed salmon are typically fed a diet of ground fish meal and fish oils, which are high in PCBs. According to a 2004 study in the journal Science, there's a more than sevenfold difference in the PCB levels of wild and farmed salmon. Some consumer groups advise that you limit your intake of farm-raised salmon to a single, 8-ounce (or less) meal a month. The FDA, however, counters that salmon is a powerhouse source of cardiovascular-friendly omega-3 and that the likelihood of developing cancer from PCBs is much lower than the risk of heart disease from avoiding salmon — wild or farmed.
The Safest Choices
These fish and shellfish are low in mercury, PCBs, dioxins, and other contaminants.
Catfish (U.S. farm-raised)
Clams
Cod (Pacific)
Crab
Haddock
Halibut (Pacific)
Herring
Lobster
Mahimahi
Mussels
Oysters
Pollack
Salmon (wild, canned)
Sardines
Scallops
Sea bass
Shrimp
Squid
Tilapia
Trout (farm-raised)
Tuna (canned light)
Eat in Moderation
Limit your consumption of these fish and shellfish to no more than four 6-ounce servings per month. For women who are or may become pregnant, nursing mothers, and children under 12, the Institute of Medicine recommends no more than 6 ounces of albacore each week.
Albacore tuna (canned white)
Blue crab
Bluefish
Flounder
Halibut (Atlantic)
Marlin (blue)
Salmon (farm-raised)
Tuna (ahi or bigeye, yellowfin, and bluefin)
Be Very Cautious with These
According to both the EPA and the FDA, women who are or may become pregnant, nursing mothers, and children under 12 should avoid these fish because of the levels of mercury contamination in them.
King mackerel
Shark
Swordfish
Tilefish (also called golden snapper and golden bass)
http://lifestyle.msn.com/foodandentertaining/thewinelife/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4992857>1=10173
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mmmm... goat! Such the must if one is cavorting with boys from Trinidad I might add.
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I've given up many foods that I just salivate for ... except.. Beluga Caviar... I buy imported from Russia through NYC... its one of my few pleasures in life... 2lbs cost me dearly but, it has such a intense and rich flavor... I've had this for breakfast every morning since childhood...
BELUGA FOR BREAKFAST? MARRY ME!! ;D ;D ;D
Milker.
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Oh Milker, I've read where your from France... the french men are "au magnitique" and really purty...
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All that tastes good is bad for you >:(
I love rare (raw) meat, raw milk cheese and sausages, cold cuts.
Just 2 weekends ago I had a nice picnic with some fois gras, saucisson, goat cheese, olives, a fabulous Camembert (from raw milk).
I did get very sick with a parasite once. But I'm not sure if it was because I ate bad sushi or bad ass. :o
Rich
(who likes it raw whenever possible)
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The other day I popped into the store to buy some oranges. When I got home, I noticed a got a bag of grapefruit instead. I could have sworn the bag said "oranges". They certainly looked like oranges to me. That's why I'm on disability. If I can't tell the difference between oranges and grapefruits, then what good am I?
robert
Answer: Your post makes us laugh, so that's what your good for (Court Jester) Robert!
8) -megasept (who has done far worse)
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When first diagnosed I avoided EVERYTHING that I'd been told was even a slight risk, but these days I'm a great believer in a little of what you fancy does you good. ;)
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hi folks i still can't get around the food thing,before the what not to eat i would like to be helped with the right foods to eat that promote the immune system i am stressed can't eat not to mention I am constantly terrified of dying
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hi folks i still can't get around the food thing,before the what not to eat i would like to be helped with the right foods to eat that promote the immune system i am stressed can't eat not to mention I am constantly terrified of dying
Hello Mandisa,
This link from the lessons will help give you a start ;
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Nutrition_7670.shtml
Ray
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I eat anything and everything I want. Even when my cd4 was 30. I don't worry about it. And for the last 17 years I've never had a problem. I live life, I can't worry about everything. Good luck.
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All of this talk about food is making me hungry!
My doctors get irritated with me, but I enjoy sushi, dressings made wtih uncooked egg yolks, and an Ethiopian raw meat and cheese curd dish called kitfo. In the latter, the spices blended have been used over centuries to kill paratsites and bacteria inhabiting the food. Much the same for wasabi, as well as spices and acids in dressings.
That said, I will not eat undercooked hamburgers or runny eggs anywhere. It's really a mouth-feel thing.
As for good foods..... yogurt, whole grains, and high-fibre goodies. Forget the commercial tripe about "973% of your immune system is in your intestines"--there's some heavy bending of science there. Still, yogurt will keep your intestinal flora healthy and flourishing, and that keeps down bad bugs. Likewise, whole grains keep your blood sugar from bouncing all over, and fibre keeps the contents of your intestines bound and moving freely so stuff doesn't get caught in there for ages. ....And, no, I'm not holding Amelia Earhart hostage, dammit!
On the gut tip, powdered glutamine is my favorite supplement of all. Buy it in 2-kilo lots from an NYC guy on eBay. 1-2 teaspoons mixed in sports drink or juice each days helps the GI lining repair itself, plus it's supposed to help with lymphocyte production.
Peace,
Davivd
Cheers,
David
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Oh you mean chitlins...remember they must be simmered until tender(2-3 hours), a process that emits a detestable stench.
Loves me some chitlins but hates cleaning them...I even clean behind the ones that claim to be already cleaned. You can kill the smell by putting potatoes and onions in with the chitlins when you cook them.