SCARED IN S.A. OVER W2W ORAL SEX

[Scared in SA]

Please could someone give me their honest opinion and if there is someone with a medical background, even better!  I need to know if this activity warrants me getting an HIV test done?

About 7 months ago I had unprotected oral sex with another lady.  There was no blood involved, I was more on the receiving end but I'm not sure if there was any bodily fluids exchanged.  I know alot of sites say it is risky and some that say it's not, but is woman to woman transmission been documented.  I'm going out of my mind with worry, so your opinion would be most appreciated.

Thank you

[Andy Velez]

Yes, diverse opinions have been expressed through the years, including some saying there is risk. But the bottom line is NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE. Theoretically transmission could happen in this manner, but in the real world of HIV it doesn't.

Even assuming the woman you were with is HIV+, her bodily fluids which would be most accessible to HIV are in the cervical area, which is far enough up inside her to make them inaccessible to your mouth and tongue. You have a natural protection in your own body: your saliva. It has effective inhibiting factors in it which would neutralize HIV IF there was any in the other woman's bodily fluids and IF you connected with them orally.

If she had been menstruating that would have been quite noticeable. Copious and fresh bleeding could be a risk but again, we have no documented evidence of such transmission.

What has often turned out to be the source of infection in a lesbian is that she has had unprotected intercourse with a man.

As for the aspect of receiving oral in the incident, you absolutely weren't at risk.

I can't help wondering if you are new to woman to woman sex. If you are perhaps the feelings stirred up by "experimenting" are the real issue here. As far as HIV is concerned I don't see any cause for concern nor for testing.

Cheers,

[Scared in SA]

Thank you for your quick reply.
Yes, this was the first time I've ever been with a woman.  Feeling totally guilt, disgusted and terrified!
I'm married to a wonderful man and feel guilty everytime I even look at him.  This was something that happened one evening while I was away on business.

There was no menstrual blood noted and I was more on the receiving then giving side.  We didn't use any toys and it wasn't too long.  Do you still think this is pretty safe to say that I was infected?  I've been getting quite a few symptoms lately and I'm not sure if this is just due to anxiety.  Swollen glands, headaches, no weight loss, small unraised red spots on one side of my body - about 4 of them, nausea and sore neck.  Please let me know what you think?

Thank you

[Sean Wandering]

me scared too, and will have test tomorrow, hope all the scared people here finally are fine.

and people here like Andy, Ann, Matt, RapidRod, etc are very nice, glad that we can communicate with them

good luck!

[Scared in SA]

Hi Sean .... thank you for the hello and best wishes message.  I hope your test tomorrow comes out exactly as I'm sure it will - NEGATIVE!  Will keep my fingers crossed for you.  I still have taken the plunge and had it done - so scared of the results and everyone on these HIV sites keeps telling me that I've got nothing to worry about regarding woman to woman transmission.  Here's hoping they're right

Take care and GOOD LUCK!

[Andy Velez]

Scared, you have absolutely no need to get tested other than if you think that's the only way you will have peace of mind about the HIV issue.

You weren't at risk in this incident. Really.

Guilt is a whole other matter. Lugging that around is unhealthy and it's not a love tribute to your husband or a sign of your higher integrity. It's just poisonous. The best thing you can do for all concerned is to accept what happened, take a breath and let it and get on with your life.

[Ann]

scared,

Symptoms or the lack of symptoms mean nothing where hiv is concerned. As you did not have a risk for hiv infection, your symptoms could not possibly have anything to do with hiv. If they persist, see your doctor.

Going down on a woman - cunnilingus - is NOT a risk for hiv infection. It is the cervicovaginal fluid, which is more of a thick mucus than a fluid, that is infectious and you won't get anywhere near this during cunnilingus. The fluid that a woman produces when sexually excited comes from two glands on either side of the vaginal opening and have not been show to be particularly infectious, rather like sweat or tears.

Plus, saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

You did not have a risk for hiv infection. If you cannot bring yourself to believe us, go test and collect your negative result. A test now will be conclusive.

Along with reading the Transmission Lesson, here's what you need to know about avoiding hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann

[Scared in SA]

THANK YOU ALL for your positive responses and putting my mind to rest.  Do you know if there are any documented cases of HIV transmission from woman to woman?  And if so, what was the reasoning behind it?  So, would you all agree that I've got nothing to worry about and shouldn't even worry about getting an HIV test?  Ann, could you tell me where this cervicovaginal fluid is found in a woman?  Sorry if I sound naive but would like to have all the info on hand.  Andy, I really appreciate your honesty and kind words .... it really helps me try to put things into percpective and will try and not be too hard on myself.  The more information I can get on wether this warrants an HIV test or not would be great!

[Matty the Damned]

Ann, could you tell me where this cervicovaginal fluid is found in a woman?

Hey Scared,

The fluids in question are found around the cervix, which is at the top of the vagina where it meets the womb.

MtD

[Scared in SA]

Hi Matt
Thank you for your quick response.  So basically there was no way that either of us could have got infected.  Afterall, excuse the bluntness but I only used my tongue on her clit .... no fingering and no going lower then that.  With regards to her going down on me - it was for quite along time, she used her tongue and fingers.  Is it safe to say that I shouldn't carry on with the worry over being infected and that there is no reason for me to get tested?  I really appreciate all your help here guys - A BIG THANK YOU!

[Matty the Damned]

Not a problem babe. You can be as blunt as you need to be. There's no point in being coy when talking about this stuff.

I agree completely with Ann here. You didn't have a risk for HIV and you don't need to test because of this.

Fond regards,

MtD

[Scared in SA]

BOY .... that was quick - THANK YOU Matt!
I just hope that all is okay and even without the testing - I need to put this behind me and get on with my life.  If there was no risk involved and I've been on all the websites to confirm this, then I suppose there is no need for testing?  Have you had any expierences with this Matt and do you have a medical background of some sorts to confirm what everyone has been telling me?

[Matty the Damned]

That's right mate. No risk means that you don't need to test. Though Ann's earlier advice to you about having regular STD screening if you're sexually active is good advice. Regular screening is a good habit to get into and some STD's (such as genital herpes) are transmitted by skin-to-skin contact.

Please understand that I'm not suggesting you need to test because of the sexual activity you've told us about.

In our Welcome Thread you'll find links to our testing and transmission lessons (which explain all you need to know about HIV) and our posting guidelines. The guidelines stipulate that only our Moderators (such as Ann and Andy Velez) and a number of authorised members can answer questions that people such are yourself bring to our forums. I'm one of those authorised members.

We only deal in facts backed up by science here. You can rest assured that whether it's myself or another authorised member who answers your questions, you're getting the right answers.

So yes, you can trust the advice we've given you. If we thought you had a risk, we'd tell you. And yes, you can get on with your life.

Regards,

MtD

[Scared in SA]

Thank you Matt for you honest advice and the time you've taken to reassure me - much appreciated!
I'm married so this was a once off encounter with a lady.  I've never cheated on my husband before and of course never been with a woman either.  This is something I deeply regret but hope that all is okay!
If you don't mind me asking, but where do the moderators getting their scientific information from and is it realiable and uptodate?

[Scared in SA]

I thought this was quite interesting and maybe you'd like to pass it onto people who are worried about oral sex and the transmission of HIV:

Receptive partner of gay anal sex  1 in 1,250
Insertive partner of gay anal sex  1 in 122
Receptive partner of straight vaginal sex 1 in 1,000,000
Insertive partner of straight vaginal sex  1 in 111,111
Receiver of penile oral sex  1 in 1,250
Performer of penile oral sex  Negligible
Receiver of vaginal oral sex  Negligible
Performer of vaginal oral sex  Negligible

[Ann]

Scared,

Numbers like those don't really mean anything and are counterproductive to our purposes here. Why? Because someone who has had, for example, unprotected vaginal intercourse, has been at risk and they do need to test. Looking at those numbers, they might decide to take their chances instead of testing. So forget the stats.

The fact is however, that there has NEVER been a proven case of hiv transmission occuring during cunnilingus.

Those of us who answer questions in this forum have been educating ourselves for years on the subject of hiv transmission and infection. All  of our responses are based on peer-reviewed, scientific studies published in medical journals - as well as knowing the basic science on a cellular level and human anatomy. Many of us are also living with hiv, so knowing what is a risk and isn't a risk is very important to us.

I have a partner who is hiv negative. We've been together for eight years and he remains hiv negative despite our having a full sex life. The only thing we do to ensure he remains hiv negative is to use condoms for intercourse. I don't just talk the talk, I walk the walk too.

You did not have a risk in your incident with another woman. If you did, we'd tell you and advise you to test. You only need to test if that is the only way to put this behind you.

Ann

[Scared in SA]

Ann, thank you for your honest advice and I will be trying my best to move on.  I suppose it's the guilt mixed with worry that keeps me going back to the same issues.  Maybe I should just do the test, put it behind me and get on with my life!  I thank God for giving friendly, helpful and encouraging people like yourselves to help others.  THANK YOU Ann!

[Ann]

Scared,

You're welcome.

Drop the guilt overboard - it won't do you any good. What's done is done - so you experimented a bit with another woman, it's not that big a deal in the greater scheme of things. Put it behind you and think of it as part of life's rich tapestry.

If you continue to have problems with the guilty feelings, perhaps some counseling would be in order. We can't help you with that here.

Ann

[Scared in SA]

Hi Ann,
I probably do need to see a counsellor for the guilt but as far as the HIV testing, fears I think all of you have put my mind to rest!  I think you are all doing a wonderful job helping people in need and from me, I just want to thank you!  You're all in my hearts and prayers.

[Scared in SA]

Hi all .... I'm sorry to worry you again but I've got a few symtoms that I'm still worried about and need your advice:

1)  Sore neck on the right hand side - can hardly turn my neck
2)  Tongue and palatte feel sore and mouth feels really dry
3)  The rash that I spoke about earlier on hasn't gone away yet
4)  Headaches
5)  Tired all the time

PLEASE .... are these any to be concerned about?  Are they not a symptom of ARS?

[Bucko]

There are no specific symptoms of ARS, Scared. we don't address anyone's aches and pains because no one can diagnose anything over the internet.

If you're feeling unwell, go see your doctor. But this is not an HIV concern.

Brent
(Who knows what it feels like to feel crummy sometimes)

[Scared in SA]

Hi Brent
Thank you for your reply and honest opinion .... I really do appreciate it!  I guess it's something I shouldn't try and diagnose over the internet, but everytime I read symptoms of HIV I think I have it.
Do you think the encounter that I had with another woman would warrant an HIV test?  What is your understanding and expierence regarding HIV?  Sorry for all the questions, but this is new and very scary for me.

P.S. Hope you're not feeling 'crummy' today!