POZ Community Forums
Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Nutrition & HIV => Topic started by: runnergal on July 18, 2010, 03:16:35 am
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I was at Whole Foods tonight and I picked up my dad some coconut oil (extra virigin - medium chain fatty acids - not the hydrogenation kind). I actually picked it up because 1 tablespoon is 130 calories and I figured it may help him swallow his pills, but on further research, I have read it actually good for the treatment of HIV. Anyone here heard or tried coconut oil as a supplement? Here are some interesting links FYI. http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-oils/organic-coconut-oil/health-benefits-of-coconut-oil.html http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/successstories.htm
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I have heard about that.
My opinion is, frankly, if your dad is on HAART, whatever tiny little effect coconut oil might have on HIV doesn't matter.
He should just eat a whole diet and HAART will do its proper work.
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God knows I'm all for natural foods, therapies and supplements for improving health generally. I've tried almost everything this past 5 years since diagnosis and I cannot honestly say that any one of these popularly touted foods (VCO, Flaxseed Hull, Acai, Aloe Vera Leaf, Sutherlandia, ...etc) stood out distinctly as a salient treatment for HIV, at least not according to my CD4 and VL count. I now am convinced that general good health is a result of synergistic effects from many sources. So I wouldn't place my last dollar bet on VCO. ;)
I now use VCO for many other uses (I concoct my own hair & face oil-it works) besides swallowing 50ml (minimum recommended dosage for any +ve effects) per day and trying not to puke immediately thereafter. Be my guess. ;D
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I like coconut oil and use coconut flour in my gluten free bread flour mixture.
The only problem is the amount of saturated fats in coconut oil. From what I've read, the virgin coconut oil may be better for you and, in fact, might actually raise the HDL cholesterol rather than the LDL.
I am skeptical about other claims made regarding coconut oil, or any substance being touted to cure myriad ills. Usually it is balderdash.
But I did find some interesting information regarding coconut oil, milk and water in this 2009 article from U.S. News and World Report :
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/diet-fitness/heart/articles/2009/08/10/do-coconut-oil-and-coconut-water-provide-health-benefits.html
Those MCTs may also act differently on your heart. Evidence shows that virgin coconut oil either doesn't raise cholesterol or primarily raises HDL, the good cholesterol, thus improving the all-important ratio of good cholesterol to the bad kind. When you look at that ratio, coconut oil "doesn't look too bad," though it's not as good as a combination of plant oils like olive and canola oil, says Walter Willett, chair of the department of nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health. But whatever the short term effects, it's unclear whether eating coconut oil over a long time raises the risk of heart attack or stroke any less than other saturated fats, says La Puma. Research on Pacific Island and Asian populations whose diets are naturally very high in coconut oil has shown unexpectedly low rates of heart disease, but those people also eat a mostly plant-based diet and are far more active than the average American, making direct comparisons pretty tough.
I believe, in moderation, there may well be some benefits to the VCO. But I don't believe it to be a cureall.
HUGS,
Mark
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I live in Thailand and I have encountered the idea here. There is a medium chain fatty acid in coconuts called lauric acid specifically mono-lauric acid that has been shown to have antimicrobial properties.
It is described as being a "functional food" in that the medium chain structure binds with the lipid (fat) coat of the microbe (viruses and bacteria including HIV). When HIV runs into the fatty acid in the blood stream, it binds to it and attempts to absorb the fatty molecules into its shell. It continues to do this until it "pops" the shell leaving nothing the but naked gene proteins which as now functionally unable to attach to anything- CD4 or otherwise.
This is of course a completely different but very interesting approach to HIV treatment as the ARTs which work at the genetic level.
I would say that the weakness of this approach is that it only affects free HIV in the plasma which has been estimated to be around (~2%). Can anyone confirm this? If so, it does not have any affect on the virus that is in reservoir lymphic tissue or already inside CD4 cells. Come to think of it, I am not sure that HAART can reach the reservoirs either. I think they all act when the viron is attaching to a cell. (can anyone confirm?) I am certain they cannot cross the blood-brain barrier. However it is an interesting novel approach.
There were also a few proof of concept studies done on mono-lauric acid that did show benefit, however they were quite small. One in the Philipines and one in Scandinavia somewhere.
--http://www.lauric.org/
In Thailand it has been known here for some time as a complimentary treatment. In Bangkok there are 'AIDS temples' where the coconut oil manufactures donate the oil to patients who cannot afford ART. When I heard this I was intrigued.
I was diagnosed at the Thai Red Cross AIDS research center where they have conducted several large scale clinical studies. I spoke to a doctors who approached me to participate in one of the studies. I asked her about coconut oil. Because these studies are funded by the large pharma, I was expecting the same sort of answers that some of the posts I have seen dismissing it out of hand as "balderdash" and the like. However, to my surprise she acknowledged it! She did comment that you would need a very pure source of oil and be able to drink enough of it every day.
Therein lies the problem with coconut oil. It REALLY tastes like COCONUTS!! Strong, concentrated, super-oily coconuts which are....HORRIBLY disgusting. Just the thought of drinking the oil provokes a very strong (and negative) psychological response. I have endeavored every day since diagnosis to drink 50ml (which was the amount used in the Philippines study) however I have had a success rate of about 0.1% :D
I have tried mixing it with juice, whey and otherwise concealing the taste with no success. I even bought empty gelatin capsules and a syringe and attempted to inject the oil into the capsules but this misguided endeavor just ended in a very oily mess. I would love to hear if anyone has actually been able to drink the stuff on a daily basis for any length of time.
I eventually gave up and resorted to just eating a coconut every day ;D
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I have been a regular consumer of coconut oil since I first heard about it. Unlike Natthai I do not find it disgusting; I like the taste of coconut very much. However, even I, liking the taste, cannot eat the four tablespoons a day (or 3 and a half depending on the source) that is often recommended.
In fact, the only use to which I can really put coconut oil on a daily basis is on toast, replacing butter. There are times when I eat "western" style breakfasts every day, and then toast with coconut oil is natural on the side. But then there are phases when I have a Japanese style rice-based breakfast every day for a while, and there is no way to incorportate coconut oil into that. Even when having toast, sometimes of course I just want butter! I like coconut oil but it does not have the depth or complexity of good butter. Of course, one could use co in place of butter in baking cookies and cakes, but that would result in far too much cookie and cake eating!
Another source is coconut cream, of course, which lends itself to mixing with yogurt and honey and pouring over fruit, something I do often. But none of this would come close to four tablespoons of oil a day. Edited to add:By that I mean, that you would need something like a cup of coconut cream (milk) to get the same amount of lauric acid as in four tablespoons of oil.
I have no idea whether coconut oil has done anything for me in these four years, at least as far as managing HIV is concerned. However, one thing caught my attention. Back in March I decided to lose weight fast, and for two weeks ate only brown rice and vegetables. I did lose weight, but I also, in the middle of the second week, had a sudden eruption of dermatitis, far worse than any I had ever previously had or have had since. I thought about this and wondered if perhaps going from a high-fat to a very low-fat diet was to blame. That day I began having spoons of coconut oil, and almost immediately the dermatitis went away.
I recently became infected with CMV, and I find the same claims which are made for lauric acid with HIV are also made with regard to CMV, so for a while afterwards I had co every day.
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I eventually gave up and resorted to just eating a coconut every day ;D
Do you feel like sharing your labs, if you know them. And if you are eating coconuts as an alternative to HAART, which you have refused? Or with HAART? Or just to try to avoid HAART.
I mean, would you ever take HAART?
Thanks.
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Do you feel like sharing your labs, if you know them. And if you are eating coconuts as an alternative to HAART, which you have refused? Or with HAART? Or just to try to avoid HAART.
I mean, would you ever take HAART?
Thanks.
He has his labs in his signature line.
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OOPs, scuzie! Well then it would be interesting to know the other information. And not because I want to jump on you about it, like you mention in your post that some people do.
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Do you feel like sharing your labs, if you know them. And if you are eating coconuts as an alternative to HAART, which you have refused? Or with HAART? Or just to try to avoid HAART.
I mean, would you ever take HAART?
Thanks.
I don't think there is any alternative to HAART, that is a very potent and specific class of drugs (especially not coconuts). Treatment isn't indicated for me right now according to my doctor and the treatment guidelines so I am looking for things to do in the meantime.
One problem with the novel lauric acid found in coconut oil is that it can only (in theory) affect the naked HIV virons floating around the blood stream, certainly not any virus that is inside a cell or reservoir. I have read that less than 2% of the total virus is actually floating around in the blood stream.
My strategy is to avoid treatment as long as possible. There is so much research going on in HIV right now, billions and billions of $$. Who knows, there might be developments in a new class of drugs which are less toxic and more enzymatic specific (less side effects) and more efficacious (HAART^2 ?) or a novel approach to fighting the disease may be discovered, or a vaccine or a cure. It sure is the premier disease in terms of attention and funding of the biomedical field right now. Of course if my labs indicate a need for treatment or I start to get OI's then I will have to reappraise the situation. Also I find that reading others opinions and advice on this web board to be very helpful.
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I will have to look more closely at the coconut oil. Here in CR coconuts are plentiful.
There is one next to my house that is constantly full.
I am not sure why I thought you were on antivirals with your high numbers but I am glad to see you are holding off for a better option. When the labs drop we should start the meds but holding off may be a good idea.
Back to work for me and thanks for the new idea. Soon I could be on everything but rollerskates!
Hoover
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I have read it actually good for the treatment of HIV.
This is an oft trumpeted, and indeed perenniel, suggestion, but there is no decent study which shows a jot of benefit HIV-wise. It may have other nutritional properties, but HIV...coconut oil....money not well spent in my humble opinion.
Because...if it worked there would by now have been a decent study, and we'd all be slurping it.
- matt
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While on the topic of coconut oil, I should mention that I gained about twenty pounds a few years, and that was at about the same time I gave it a try. Considering the fact that the recommended dose--four tablespoons a day--contains around five hundred calories, that is unsurprising. I've finally lost all of that weight and then some, and I am not going to be going back to anything like four tablespoons a day, ever. Maybe one.
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-four tablespoons a day--contains around five hundred calories....
That many calories is a bit distressing...
We get the green coconuts called pipas and drink the juice.
These being young coconuts, they do not have the meat solidified.
I wonder if they are still "possibly" as healthy as the ripe ones that have been processed.
In the past the Pipas were used as a plasma substitute.
Finding that information may be difficult.
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-four tablespoons a day--contains around five hundred calories....
That many calories is a bit distressing...
We get the green coconuts called pipas and drink the juice.
These being young coconuts, they do not have the meat solidified.
I wonder if they are still "possibly" as healthy as the ripe ones that have been processed.
In the past the Pipas were used as a plasma substitute.
Finding that information may be difficult.
Yeah it is a lot, I have almost given up on coconuts because of the logistics of taking them. I wish someone would take the coconut oil and put it in a gelatin capsule similar to the way they do with those largish golden fish oil capsules. That would totally solve the taste problem.
Regarding the young coconuts. There are two things about coconuts that people commonly mistake. There is the coconut water in the middle of the nut. This is just water, it is very healthy in electrolyte balance (similar to Gatorade but with less sugar) but it doesn't contain the lauric acid. The fatty monolauric acid is in the white meet of the coconut. So you can either eat it, crush it into a coconut "milk" or press the oil out of it.
But coconut milk is quite different than coconut water. The milk is what you want.
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Oh for another pill to solve some of my problems......
Maybe I can start using the oil in cooking.
The green coconuts are difficult to cut and there is almost no meat in them, only water.
With that said, they cost about $0.20 each and are a refreshing drink after the gym.
Time to get back to work.
Hoover
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a refreshing drink that causes the runs
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Oh for another pill to solve some of my problems......
Maybe I can start using the oil in cooking.
Or as lubrication.
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Or as lubrication.
get out of my head! ;D
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Must it always go back to sex?
There is Off topic for that chat.
Hoover
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It's all about the sex
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Another thing to consider about coconut oil (other than it being yet another supplement fad) is that it is one of those fats you need to avoid if you have high tryglicerides, which is common with some meds.
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Another thing to consider about coconut oil (other than it being yet another supplement fad) is that it is one of those fats you need to avoid if you have high tryglicerides, which is common with some meds.
Good call shark, that is a definitely a consideration. It may have an advantage over other saturated oils in that it is a Medium Chain Fatty (MCF) acid whereas the others are LCMs. When I was looking into the cholesterol impact I asked a Chemical Engineering colleague about this and he said that the length of the chain as well as its saturation both have an impact.
Also, it cannot be understated just how disgusting it tastes. It might kill the virus just be being so noxious...
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besides swallowing 50ml (minimum recommended dosage for any +ve effects) per day and trying not to puke immediately thereafter. Be my guess. ;D
my experience exactly...
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I would never consider taking coconut oil unless I was diagnosed with wasting syndrome. Many, if not most of the meds used to treat HIV caution against trans and saturated fats in excess, and high blood pressure/high cholesterol are not to be taken lightly. A thirty year old who has a heart attack? It's more common than you think.
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I would never consider taking coconut oil unless I was diagnosed with wasting syndrome.
I dun recall VCO being used for wasting.
Wasting is caused by many factors; one by mainly the damage of the mitochondria in redistributing healthy fats to cells. Taking NAC may help restore and then some. ;)
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I dun recall VCO being used for wasting.
Wasting is caused by many factors; one by mainly the damage of the mitochondria in redistributing healthy fats to cells. Taking NAC may help restore and then some. ;)
faulty distribution of fat due to mitochondrial cellular dysfunction is lipodystrophy, not wasting -- these are two separate issues.
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faulty distribution of fat due to mitochondrial cellular dysfunction is lipodystrophy, not wasting -- these are two separate issues.
We are pretty off topic now but since it ws brought up, is there any suppliament (or drug) that can mitigate mitrochondrial cellular dysfunction? I read that CoQ10 has someting to do with protecting mitochondria but I don't know if there have been any studies or anecdotal reports of it having any influence on lipodystrophy?
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Therein lies the problem with coconut oil. It REALLY tastes like COCONUTS!! Strong, concentrated, super-oily coconuts which are....HORRIBLY disgusting. Just the thought of drinking the oil provokes a very strong (and negative) psychological response. I have endeavored every day since diagnosis to drink 50ml (which was the amount used in the Philippines study) however I have had a success rate of about 0.1% :D
I had similar feelings, no matter what I did, the coconut oil tasted disgusting and I didn't want to take it as I would feel the taste all day and feel disgusted and not very good...but today I found a solution!
here is a very good recipe:
Banana Orange Smoothie
1 banana
½ cup orange juice more or less, depending on how thick or thin you want it
3 tablespoons virgin coconut oil - liquefied
1 tablespoon Coconut Cream Concentrate
3 tablespoons organic whole milk vanilla yogurt
3 ice cubes
Blend everything together in blender! This is also good by adding 5 frozen strawberries. Enjoy!
There was almost none of that horrible taste or smell that usually accompanies coconut oil...the orange juice and banana masked it very well. And to be honest, I actually enjoyed this drink and I'm going to make it for my friends too, it is delicious and I guess it is even more healthy than just drinking coconut oil, as there are vitamins from orange and beneficial bacteria from the natural yoghurt :) :)
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ABC, although your intentions are doubtless the best, as a negative HIV person you should be writing only in your own thread in AM I NFECTED. That's the rule of the site. You can if there is something appropriate write in OFF TOPIC as well, but you're best off sticking to that other forum.
Thanks for your cooperation with our rule.