POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: newbernswiss on December 05, 2007, 08:26:15 pm
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I just go my Health Care Summary from BCBS. Reporting Period from January 2007 to September 2007 so far my HIV cost for meds and doctors visits are $ 30356.61, provider billed amount. If I had no insurance I could never afford to pay this amount of money.
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It is insane -- the amount that my insurance (Aetna) has paid so far in 2007 is $42,702.78. I can't even imagine what that would actually be if the non-negotiated amount was available. Fortunately, my out of pocket piece of the costs has only been $2,598.70.
I'm just ever so grateful that I have such good insurance -- I know that I am in the minority.
Mike
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Crikey!!!
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OUCH
Thank god for free health care in Australia!!
J
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Thankfully I have good Health insurance through my job. I pay a $5 copay for my prescriptions and Doctor's visits. But so many people here in the U.S. don't have health insurance or they pay a lot for health insurance. This is why I agree with some of the Politicians on changing our health care system.
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I recently saw a report in which it is estimated that the lifetime cost of treating a person living with HIV, in the UK, would be somewhere in excess of £500,000 (US$1,000,000).
I really don’t envy those people who live in countries where they have to rely on insurance and / or means tested help.
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When Mini was 19 months old, her PID called and said, "Congratulations, you now have a million dollar baby." That included 5mths in the hospital, blood work every week (then every other week), 2 surgeries, Broviac care products, in home nursing care 2x, IV supplies delivered to our house, OT, PT, ST, and Developmental therapy 2x/wk each, an MRI, AFOs (leg braces), growth hormone testing, 13 doctors in 2 states, blood transfusions, genotyping, and numerous med changes. She was "given" a medical card when she was born. Even when we had insurance through dh's work, we were allowed to use her card for 100% of her medical stuff. Otherwise, I'm not sure how we could've afforded everything. She's now almost 7 1/2 and I don't WANT to know what her total is now. I read somewhere that caring for a child who is dx'd HIV+ at birth through adulthood could be in excess of over $5million usd. I think even that number is low.
Mum
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Everyone here in the U.S. needs to watch the movie "Sicko." I did and it made me very angry. We need a major change to the health care system here. We shouldn't have to pay for medical care in this rich nation of ours. When I got the statement at the beginning of this year for how much Medicare Part D paid for my meds for last year it was in the $40,000 range. Unbelievable.
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We shouldn't have to pay for medical care in this rich nation of ours. When I got the statement at the beginning of this year for how much Medicare Part D paid for my meds for last year it was in the $40,000 range. Unbelievable.
At the risk of sounding a bit like Jack ;D :
No matter which system of paying for health care is used -- We will be paying for it. Money doesn't fall from the sky into the Treasury -- We, the People, pay taxes. So we will be paying.
Now -- having said that, let me pull back a little -- I do agree that we need a different system and I do agree that ability to pay shouldn't be a factor in receiving care. What I liked best about Sicko was that it laid bare how ridiculously expensive health care is in the US compared to most other nations. I just felt that need to point out that even with Single Payer health care -- it isn't free. My personal opinion is that part of the reason we are where we are is that we want the best of everything, we want it now and we want someone else to pay for it.
Mike
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I am so grateful to live in Canada where all my health care is free and even my meds are covered by a government run drug plan. Yes, we all pay with our taxes but we all get the best care available without going into debt or losing our homes.
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I watched Sicko also, Betty. It did make me sick, and ashamed of our country.
I don't think the basic rules of "healthcare for profit" will ever change, in my lifetime. Canada seems to be managing nicely..
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My meds were a little over 24,000 US dollars last year. My out of pocket max is 1,000 so in Jan, I pay a 1,000 and the rest of the year everything is free.
The year I was very sick with two bouts of PCP, a lymphoma scare and various other hospitalizations, my total hospital bills were over 500,000 dollars, we paid 50 dollars.
So thankful we have insurance, so pissed off at the high cost. When I was in the hospital each regular strength tylenol cost 11 dollars. I was taking 2 every four hours. I mean c'mon I get 500 tablets at Costco for 8 bucks!!!!
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Now that so many people have seen "sicko" and a few have actually tried to verify what he says and promotes in that diatribe I think it is useful to offer a little rational view/ opinion to the pot....... Those of you with full covered ( socialist) government paid medical coverage are very fortunate......someone has been paying for your care out of pocket in many ways ..maybe even you..."no free lunch" .... government doesn't get medicine, facilities or professional staff for no cost they pay for it...Governments get their income from you ..directly or indirectly...virtually everyone they ( the govmnt) does business with does so with the intent of being paid.......... In the oft talked about ideal of Canada and the UK there is a thriving "private" practice of medicine.....surely the patients of these Dr's could get "free" care... why don't they???? why is there such a demand for "private Patients /Dr's?" why do many of them travel to the USA for treatment????
In Mr Moores depiction of the evil USA, only greedy hospitals and greedier Pharma companies control the Medical market" and are squeezing exorbitant amounts of money from people who cannot pay.....he very carefully selects some really sad cases of people who have been short changed and applies that extremely broad brush totally across the whole system....... anyone who cares to look can find multiple cases ( thousands actually) in any city or town with a Hospital that are treated for little or no cost....virtually all emergencies are treated without question or regard to citizenship many times a simple questionnaire is used to determine "ability to pay" and frequently there is no charge or nominal charges....the county Hospital in Dallas provides more maternity care and services than almost all the other the other Hospital in the area put together and most of the time it is "free" also true of all the emergencies and "clinic" patients.....I know the same is true in most medium to large cities...... I find it particularly disingenuous for persons from other places who have no first hand knowledge of how the system actually works but yet have scathing comments about how terrible it is.....
If you have read the responses on this thread you have seen people who have insurance who are being treated and paying "nominal amounts for the meds and service they get...
you have also seen/ read about people on various "programs" that pay virtually nothing for their meds /services...unfortunately there are still some that either have none of this available to them or for some reason don't/ haven't qualified .
Some of you have lived in various places around the world...I have ....and I have seen on a very personal day to day basis how people live/work/ exist......virtually everywhere I have had occasion to work with the locals I have been approached with " how do I get to work/live in America"?..... I guess this isn't such a bad place!!!!!!
Nick
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http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=17836.0;topicseen
meanwhile a board member can't obtain any HIV meds... what a timely posting
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Thank God for the Veterans Administration! Just the short time that I was without health insurance was so stressful, literally that was all I thought about every waking second.
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I would really hate to see what my total bill is for a year. I know the meds are over 66 grand at this time per year. Not including Dr. visits, labs and tests. I have no idea what the total medical care is. I know it's nothing like the bills for my first two years with long stays in the hospitals. Eww, just the thought of two years ago creeps me out.
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Nick:
I am not saying that the United States is a horrible place to live. But I do think it's shameful that people in this country cannot get free medical care. I know people in Europe pay a lot in taxes etc. but it's nothing compared to what some people's medical care cost (mine included). It's the Bush administration's blind eye to the furthering gap between the wealthy and poor. Pretty soon there will be no "middle class." I wonder if they've already ceased to exist, except for some of my neighbors who seem to be making it in a middle-class sort of way. Of course I don't live with them either, and what seems like utopia might not be at all. I wouldn't be too anxious to put-down Sicko. I still stand by what I said earlier, that every American should watch it. Would I want to live anywhere else? At this time in my life (42), with established friends, school (even though I'm paying out the ass for that and it's free in Europe), disability (if only it would transfer), no. If I was younger and I had the option of moving to say, Europe, or even Canada, hell yes I would jump on it. I'm sure every place has its drawbacks. But to think this is the best country in the world seems a bit naive.
Peace-
Betty
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We certainly do need to rethink how we pay for health care in the US. No one should have to wait until they need "emergency care" before they can get it.
I do want to revisit something I said earlier -- no matter the system -- NOTHING IS FREE. Be it healthcare, schooling, whatever.... someone is paying for it. I think it is dangerous to throw around the word "Free" in this regard. Everything costs something.
Do I think the US is the best place to live? I don't know -- I've only lived in the US, so it's hard to say. There are good things and bad things in any country, I'd guess. The ol' "grass is always greener" thing. I'm here now, and my hiv limits my ability to try living elsewhere, so I'll have to make the best of it. I do know that there aren't too many countries where I could go from growing up on welfare to having the job and life I do today. I am ever so grateful for my insurance and financial stability -- yes, either could change pretty damn quick, but that is life and I'm taking what I've been dealt. There are far worse places that I could have been born.
Mike
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One thing to remember when viewing any healthcare related dollar amounts is the difference between billed charges and provider reimbursement. Depending on where you are treated, the relationship between charges and what a facility is actually paid might be 10 to 1. Charges have little meaning especially in a managed care environment, and are very highly inflated over levels of reimbursement to the provider and the actual cost to the provider of providing the care (salaries, supplies, infrastructure, etc.).
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Betty, you are blaming the Bush administration? How about the Clinton administration? I just heard Hillary's interview where she said she dropped the Universal Health Care because it was too political. I don't think you can pin it on any political party. If it was put on the ballot next November to raise our taxes to fund Universal Health Care do you think it would pass? I don't believe it would have a chance in hell of passing.
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Hilary is a realist....she is well aware of the whole picture that is involved with "free" anything" whether the Dems or the Republicans support the program is almost irrelevant......the Congress as a whole is the problem.....someone has to pay and the power of the pen usually goes with the ones who have the most to lose......every Congressman / Senator or other administration official is always on the watch for the "people back home" will they support his/her decision? ...it usually comes down to" that depends" on who pays and who "gains"
One of the worst "voting" records in the world is owned by the US.....but that doesn't mean the "folks " at home don't let their representatives know what they expect of them... and I totally agree with Rod...."universal Health care will not survive " a ballot or a folks at home test.....in spite of the lopsided and highly selective view of MR Moore .....I have lived in a State where the idea and practice of the Universal Health care was ingrained...Massachusetts..but there was never a direct vote for it...the "politicians" gradually introduced it along with essentially free education over a number of years and there was little resistance ....I now live in Texas...even the mention of such a thing will get you hate mail and editorials in the local papers....I know there are other places with equally diverse opinions .. so if you live in the US and "universal Health Care for "free" is your goal you are on the road to long term disappointment.
I know personally several persons who have relocated to certain parts of the country because of the services and attitude of the general population in that particular place.They made rational decisions and took advantage of the possibilities....
Nick
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I'm always fascinated by these red state arguments in light of the recent trends in polling on this issue -- though I agree that God will be in the details:
By a 57 - 38 percent margin, American voters feel it is the government's responsibility to make sure everyone in the U.S. has adequate health care, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. Voters also feel 60 - 33 percent that the government should provide health insurance for those who can't afford it.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1114
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By a 57 - 38 percent margin, American voters feel it is the government's responsibility to make sure everyone in the U.S. has adequate health care, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. Voters also feel 60 - 33 percent that the government should provide health insurance for those who can't afford it.
What you get by a poll and what is actual, is two totally different sets of circumstances. I love how they give the percentages but never give the actual number polled.
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Thank God for the Veterans Administration! Just the short time that I was without health insurance was so stressful, literally that was all I thought about every waking second.
Mike, how difficult was it to get into the VA's program? I am a vet too, and am worried about soon losing my health insurance. Thanks.
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Hi,
Contact the nearest VA and let them know your separation date, along with your discharge status, and they should be able to hook you up if you qualify..
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Rod, I agree that things could have been done a long time ago. But the Bush administration vetoed the Congress' decision to have expanded healthcare for children. Bush vetoes anything it seems that doesn't have to do with extra money for the war that we shouldn't even be in. England, which I'm sure everyone knows, will be pulling out by the end of January. This administration makes me nauceous, really it does.
I'm not saying that America is a hellhole to live in. What I am saying is that a country as rich and advanced as ours should not be charging such outrageous prices for healthcare and turning people away because of it being a matter of money (or lack of insurance). Or giving second-rate service to people because of their financial situation. I know in reality if the government tried to pass universal health coverage, most people would turn it down. That's just how selfish a lot of Americans are. Most people in America are overworked, stressed out etc. When I sit at a redlight I observe people coming in the other direction. They all look like they're about ready to snap. OK, now I'm getting on my soapbox and I'll stop. It's just madness I tell you, madness. :D
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Betty, did you see why Bush vetoed it? An income of a hundred thousand dollars combined would be able to get free health care for their kids. Now is that ridiculous or what? Now if they are making that kind of money they can afford their insurance and co-pay. If they can't, they are living to high above there means.
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Rod, I am not a lover of anything Bush does. Like I said, it seems like the only things he lets pass through his veto-penned fingers are things having to do with spending more money on this war that we shouldn't be in in the first place. Like I said in another post "I think, therefore I am a liberal." And the Republican candidates don't offer much more. Not that I would ever vote Republican. I subscribe to Rolling Stone and read everything on the candidates. I like to stay informed, especially about the people I don't care for (kind of like the Godfather mentality, keep your friends close, your enemies closer). What, Roddles, may I ask is your big thing with Bush? Are you a Republican?(*gasping for air*)
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Betty, I don't vote a straight party ticket. Right now I don't see much of anything to vote for.
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back on topic!
I just received my statement for costs since Oct. 07, so I figured out the monthly figure and added on two months to account for the remainder of the year. My yearly costs for all prescription will amount to a whopping $89,832.07 How utterly frightening is that?
Of course, $36,000 of that is fuzeon alone.
Add on my doctor visits, labs etc. and then it's really scary.
I'd love to see an aggregate figure for the past 15 years of treatment.
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In UK, we are very lucky, i think its because of the percentage amount we pay on tax is unbelievable, that's why health care here is free, starting from the DR through out, if you have a job you pay your medicine at a lower fixed cost before it use to be £5, I think now its £7, this is the amount of any medicine a doctor can prescribe you. when it comes HIV med, its all free and even seeing the doctor,lab and you even have a health care adviser who follows up if you miss appointment, which is great! To get all that we have to pay higher taxes the government to support the health care, you are looking at, paying tax for the house you live, to the car you drive and work and all of them with different %, the more you earn the more you pay tax!
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Yasoza,
I don't know what the answer is for the U.S. I don't want to pay more in taxes to get better insurance. My property insurance went up 300% last year (LOVE Florida) and our property taxes have doubled, not to mention gas, groceries, and everything else and of course my co-pays for meds and doctors visits. My main concern is keep good health insurance for myself and my partner, that's all I work for anymore is health insurance for both of us. If my current employer were to drop DP benefits, I'd have to move just to continue getting benefits for both of us.
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An income of a hundred thousand dollars combined would be able to get free health care for their kids
Rod would you please provide a reliable link that proves this. I would respectfully ask you Rod, why should you receive the healthcare you receive provided by our taxes and no one else should be entitled to that life saving luxury? If you truly believe in the market system why don't you pay for your own healthcare? I just don't get it.
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An income of a hundred thousand dollars combined would be able to get free health care for their kids
Rod would you please provide a reliable link that proves this. I would respectfully ask you Rod, why should you receive the healthcare you receive provided by our taxes and no one else should be entitled to that life saving luxury? If you truly believe in the market system why don't you pay for your own healthcare? I just don't get it.
Do you have trouble reading the news as why Bush explained the veto? You know Hal, you always tend to stick your foot in your mouth. As to paying taxes, I've paid taxes for 34 years Hal. How many years have you paid into taxes? As for the rest of questions, I don't believe it is any of your (and being as nice as I can) fucking business. How's that Hal?
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Do you have trouble reading the news as why Bush explained the veto? You know Hal, you always tend to stick your foot in your mouth. As to paying taxes, I've paid taxes for 34 years Hal. How many years have you paid into taxes? As for the rest of questions, I don't believe it is any of your (and being as nice as I can) fucking business. How's that Hal?
As I would expect from you Rod. Sorry I'm off to work now Rod so my taxes can continue to pay for your healthcare. Something that I am more than happy to do. Something that I have been doing since 1967 when I got my first job. As long as you got yours I guess there really is no reason for you to worry about anyone else. I stand by what I say to you Rod everytime you callously dismiss the basic, decent, argument that everyone who pays taxes should be entitled to the same government run healthcare that keeps you alive. If you really believed what you say Rod you would pay for your own. How someone on Medicaid/Medicare can even comment on this topic is beyond me.
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Alright, boys... if you're going to duel, please take it to PM.
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The health care providers are having a Merry Christmas.
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The health care providers are having a Merry Christmas.
^
This is the best comment so far.
The reason their christmas is so merry (and after all isn't every christmas merry for this class?) is their political power. I would only suggest that we should call them 'The health care controllers', not 'providers'.
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My doctor isn't getting rich off me, that's for sure.
He bills Medicare $164 for my nearly hour-long appointments, and ends up getting around $100, and now he's looking at another 10% cut in Medicare allowances in Jan. 2008.
I'm guessing he's doing fine financially, but it's no thanks to me.
The big pharma's are doing better by me. My total for 2007 (fresh off my printer) is $38,307.71, and it would be much more if I always said yes. My rheumatologist wants to double up on the Humira this year (add $16,800), and I've stopped meds for the neuropathy. I don't know if it's prudent of me, but I get stuck on the thought that less is better (in some cases), and I settle for a dosage that manages things at a level I can tolerate (as opposed to a higher dosage that might completely alleviate the symptoms). Sometimes it's because the cost vs. benefit just seems so insane, but it's usually because I just don't want to throw anymore pills or injections at my body than the absolute minimum I can get by with.
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Everyone here in the U.S. needs to watch the movie "Sicko." I did and it made me very angry. We need a major change to the health care system here.
I saw it this week on DVD. Very interesting movie. The British interviews were the best. That one doctor who lives in a nice 4 bedroom house in a nice part of England and drives an Audi basically said he's part of a healthcare meritocracy and he seemed like a happy camper. I was in awe.
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neither could I lol
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I am on full healthcare cover and also a Government pension and I am still $7800 out of pocket since July - So much for the Australian System
Maybe the new Government will review healthcare so that the high earners pay as well
Regards
Scuddly
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Alright, because of this thread I asked the pharmacy what my insurance company was paying for my medicine. I am lucky and have only a 20 copay for my each of my 3 meds. But the insurance company is paying nearly 2500 a month for my pills alone (and they don't pay full price). Then add in my blood tests and doctor bills which I see when the insurance company sends me notices and I am at nearly 5000 a month. I see the ID doc every six weeks once for the blood draw and consult and then 4-5 days later to get the results and go over any new things we should do.
Add in the 3 psych meds I am taking and the 300 bucks I am paying a month for my COBRA insurance is a total bargain!
I am sooo thankful I have the awesome insurance that I do have. I really don't know how anyone can be HIV+ and get the treatment that they need here in the US without amazing insurance. This is insane. Anyone in England want to get married so I can have y'alls awesome healthcare? From what I understand its really great with the mixed of socialized and private medicine there.
Matt
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In the movie Sicko, they talked to a woman from the U.S. who had a friend in Canada who was letting her use his address to get healthcare. Sad when a country won't take care of its citizens but funnel trillions of dollars for a war all about oil.
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But in the US thanks to the lobbyists its all about the almighty dollar. Insurance companies, pharmacy companies, etc all lobby to make sure the american public believe that socialized medicine is the worst thing ever. People don't realize that a combination of the two will be fantastic, but it will cost the insurance companies business and cost the pharmacy business billions. I mean Bush vetoed a bill to give more children access to doctors calling it to close to socialized medicine. I really feel awful for anyone in the this country that doesn't have insurance.
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Thankfully we pay a national insurance payment along with income tax from our wages from our jobs over here in England and this funds our free at source national health service - I do feel for you over there - I really don`t envy your healthcare system of payment atall.
Denvaux
London UK
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Thankfully we pay a national insurance payment along with income tax from our wages from our jobs over here in England and this funds our free at source national health service
/quote]
So what do people without jobs do if you have to pay a national insurance payment?
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bettytacy,
The monies are deducted from our wages just like regular income tax and being use to it we don`t think of it as two taxes due to it being deducted at source - though it actually is. The money goes to fund our national health service and it`s there for all of us - our birth right as British citizens - employed, unemployed or homeless it does not matter as nobody is excluded healthcare - yes the employed pay for everyone. The system was brought in by a very socialist Labour party and it is one British policy that no political party dare revoke.
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Sorry about how that turned out in my previous post. I didn't mean to include my response in the quote. Anyway, I think that's fantastic. If only some of that would rub off over here.
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I didnt go though every post but did anyone see Micheal Moore's Movie "Sicko"
Its a must see to me..
Free health care in so many european countries as well as Cuba......France, England,
Canada.....
Now I as you why cant we have that same policy here..
It seems the USA would like us to dislike Canadians, the French, and cuba..
SO many americans say,
Iam proud to be an american.. >:(
Not if they were educated about how the health care system works for other countries.
Its just a business to them..
This is the richest State..AMERICA....so whats the problem.
Maybe I should ask George Bush..........Put that money into the health care system
and get our boys and girls back home..
I swear, I hate Bush so much, I shaved my off....
Hes a total idiot with the world's worst presidentical status, with americans..........
Hes is rated the lowest of all the presidents we have had before.
??? Anyone wondering why??
;) Because hes a total butthead.
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I didnt go though every post but did anyone see Micheal Moore's Movie "Sicko"
Its a must see to me..
Yes see replies #7, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20, 39, 43 ...........I saw it and I agree it's a must-see. If you haven't seen it, know that the movie involves not only sickness but also death :'(
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If you want to understand why it is so hard to change the American health care system, you need look no further than this very thread. There are so many misunderstandings and misused words that often we are not even all talking about the same issue. For example, there is no such thing as "free" health care as everything has a cost. What most people mean when they say free is universal health care, which implies that health care would be available to all citizens of a particular country.
You also cannot scream about how much any portion of your medical costs are because they must be viewed together to have any meaningful discussion of how to control those costs. Sadly the costs for our system are far too high and the most meaningful way of looking at health care costs is as a percentage of Gross National Product (GNP). I know, economics, how boring, but it does tell a sorry tale. Many countries with universal health care pay somewhere around 8-9% of their countries GNP on health care. The figure in the US is closer to 15% and when you factor in our very high GNP we are paying through the nose for health care that is not worth those extra hundreds of billions of dollars per year.
And do not be fooled into thinking that all that money is improving our standard of care, because most of it is eaten up by administrative costs. Another example, Medicare, which covers over 50 million Americans has administrative costs of about 3 cents out of each dollar. So it costs them $103 to provide $100 worth of medical care. Not bad at all for a government run program. Actually it is very low when compared with the 12-15% average administrative costs of a for-profit organization. But again, these costs do nothing to improve the quality of care, just the cost to provide it. Yet all of this is so intertwined that it is very hard, if not impossible to separate all the factors.
Reform will come to the US system, when the cost of not reforming becomes just too high. To do any of this will require major rewrites of many areas of law, from benefit legislation to liability, malpractice and at some point, we must take the "profit" out of health care. Until we are willing to do that, our current system will remain a patchwork of programs and benefits that create challenges for all Americans.
And just to set the record straight, the health care bill for children just vetoed by Bush, would have raised the cap for earnings for a family of four to $48,740 per year, hardly the $100K previously mentioned.
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I mean Bush vetoed a bill to give more children access to doctors calling it to close to socialized medicine.
not trying to hijack the thread but I'm glad s-chip failed as it was being financed on the backs of smokers (I stopped smoking just over 2 months ago ;) ) while the gov't tries to stop smoking. Not a very wise way to guarantee financing for kids health care.
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not trying to hijack the thread but I'm glad s-chip failed as it was being financed on the backs of smokers (I stopped smoking just over 2 months ago ;) ) while the gov't tries to stop smoking. Not a very wise way to guarantee financing for kids health care.
Actually, this might not be so bad -- if smoking gets prohibitively expensive, some folks will quit, thus lessening health related costs for them down the road. True, these won't be kids -- although the cost may prevent some kids from ever starting.
While I have to agree that it isn't the strongest foundation for funding kid's health care, the fact is that if the cigarette tax revenue actually ever did decrease to a level too low to support this, money would be gotten from somewhere else -- perhaps the savings from fewer smoking related expenses in Medicaid and Medicare.
Bottomline -- tax the hell out of cigarettes, it's a tax that can be avoided, but most won't. (Yes, I am an ex-smoker)
Of course, Universal care would be better -- but I'm not expecting to see it in my lifetime.
Mike
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OK, here in Hoosierville, they've taxed and taxed cigarettes (I am an ex-smoker as well). The tax on alcohol over the past almost 20 years has only increased about 2%. The price of a case of beer cost almost what it did when I was drinking in the late 80's. What if somehow a drug company comes up with a "magic" cure for smoking and the majority of people quit? Where are they going to get the money from then? I say, increase the tax on the booze. Be fair.
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OK, here in Hoosierville, they've taxed and taxed cigarettes (I am an ex-smoker as well). The tax on alcohol over the past almost 20 years has only increased about 2%. The price of a case of beer cost almost what it did when I was drinking in the late 80's. What if somehow a drug company comes up with a "magic" cure for smoking and the majority of people quit? Where are they going to get the money from then? I say, increase the tax on the booze. Be fair.
I'm fine with any "vice taxes" (here in Virginia, they are loath to raise tobacco taxes) -- but read my last post -- if people were to quit, en masse, the savings in health care expenditures from people no longer killing themselves with cigarettes would help mitigate the lose in revenue.
Mike
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I'm fine with any "vice taxes"
not me. I think we all should be able to do whatever we want with our lives. Ski down hill (and smash into a tree), smoke a cig, take drugs, drive a race car, etc. - as long as we pay taxes and aren't hurting others. Otherwise WHO gets to decide the "vice"? Why should cigarette smokers pay for other's health care? Why shouldn't over-eaters be taxed extra? Or anyone that doesn't exercise?
This gets back to what others have said on this thread. Americans don't pay for our healthcare in reasonable ways. Rather than tax the "vices", why not a tax on everyone and give everyone basic healthcare? Demanding that the unhealthy (the smokers) pay for the healthy (as in the children with s-chip) peoples insurance without paying for the unhealthy's medical treatment (as a smoker paying the taxes NO ONE would cover the cost of the Chantix for me to stop smoking. I paid for it myself) is just dumb.
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not me. I think we all should be able to do whatever we want with our lives. Ski down hill (and smash into a tree), smoke a cig, take drugs, drive a race car, etc. - as long as we pay taxes and aren't hurting others. Otherwise WHO gets to decide the "vice"? Why should cigarette smokers pay for other's health care? Why shouldn't over-eaters be taxed extra? Or anyone that doesn't exercise?
This gets back to what others have said on this thread. Americans don't pay for our healthcare in reasonable ways. Rather than tax the "vices", why not a tax on everyone and give everyone basic healthcare? Demanding that the unhealthy (the smokers) pay for the healthy (as in the children with s-chip) peoples insurance without paying for the unhealthy's medical treatment (as a smoker paying the taxes NO ONE would cover the cost of the Chantix for me to stop smoking. I paid for it myself) is just dumb.
Your argument goes back to the need for Universal Health Care -- a position I wholeheartedly agree with. However, given where we are, I have no problem with taxing things like cigarettes and alcohol, because, unlike food, people can live perfectly fine without them. Therefore, no one is "demanding that the unhealthy pay" for anything -- it's is there choice.
Now, there is definitely someone making judgement calls here -- but seeing as we are no where near doing what is needed (i.e. taxing everyone and covering everyone's healthcare), we should be doing something. Insuring that children get a good start seems to make a lot of sense to me.
Finally, the old argument that one group shouldn't have to pay taxes to support some other group when they don't get the same thing is useless. Everybody pays taxes that are used to do something they either do not agree with (Iraq, for example) or don't use (welfare, for example). This has always been and will always be -- I do my fair share of "supporting" others through my taxes -- and I happen to think that I SHOULD be doing this, so I'm not complaining. Yes, I'd like lower taxes just like almost everyone -- but I don't want to have mine cut on the backs of folks less fortunate than I. Not to mention, I want the safety net there for me, if my circumstances change -- I may not always have my current salary or my current insurance.
Mike
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Hi there,
I am one of those that very rarely throw things away. Still got my original positive diagnosis from the county health Dept. from 1985. I keep receipts, all that stuff. I sorted by date and bundled all my pharmacutical/ doctor / specialists, receipts for 2007. Over the past 4 1/2 years, I have quite a stack !The 2007 stack is about two inches thick, and rubber banded very tightly. I used to sit down at the end of the year with the calculator, and figure out exactly what I spent, and what insurance paid, over the past year. I may sit down and do it for 2007... But then again maybe not...Depresses me too much.
On another note Aetna officially ended yesterday, and I am now on Humana. I am going to the doctors office tomorrow, to let them copy the new insurance card, and I've got to go to Walgreens to give the new insurance carrier information to them. I did mange to squeeze an extra month of meds out of Aetna. I didn't think they would do it, but they did. I now have a little back up meds, just in case of emergency. I am thankful to have insurance, I couldn't afford it either.
Ray