What do you say at work...?

[newbie76]

Hello.

I am not doing too well. Since last night I have fever. I could cope with that, if it wasn't that it reminds me of my status and that still scares the s*** out of me. I called the doc and she said it's quite normal, to take Paracetamol and to see her next Monday at our regular appointment when we will discuss starting therapy.

Now to my question. For those of you thatdidn't disclose at work, what do you say when you need to take time off? Say that you need to be off 1 day and then after a week you need 3 more days and so on... what is your excuse? I was thinking to say that I have some sort of chronic condition, but I guess they'd want to see some sort of official ceetificate and I wouldn't be sure what condition I could make up...

Any advice is appreciated.

[Dragonette]

Hi,

I have discolsed to my direct bosses but not to the Big Boss but he knows I have a chronic condition but that's only because I am not a normal employee but some hybrid. However, when you need to miss a day, two, a week, I don't see a reason to disclose. You are not taking time off because of HIV but because of the flue or another virus, just like anyone else. Most of my collegues are sick all the time with one thing or another, especially in winter and changing seasons. So I would do as you did before, take the days off as necessary if/when you feel unwell for whatever reason. I have been sick with a CD4 of under 100, but still it was the "normal" flues/viruses, not "the virus".

Hope this helps,

[newbie76]

I guess I am asking because at my workplace no one ever seem to take time off sick unless they're REALLY unwell.

The other thing is that I work mornings and a colleague covers the afternoons so if I take time off my colleague needs to cover my shift too and is normally quite thorough in asking what is wrong with me...

[Miss Philicia]

Well, it's going to vary from place to place and how you see that others are treated when they take off sick days.  I worked for 8 years at a place where you were given grief every time you were out.  It was a small design office with about 20 employees, and owned by an insane artsy couple that weren't really married but lived together.  Of course, I had to take time off from time to time but it was never excessive until around the last year when I was having mental issues, and I needed to see a shrink and this would make me come in an hour late one day/week, so I sat them down and finally disclosed.  Since it was an artsy place in Manhattan they were very understanding actually... maybe I should have said something sooner.  I really didn't want their pity though.

Then they laid me off.

[planonstaying]

I used all my vacation   when I  sick at the beginning of the year
I  went to personal with an fmla form from my specialist and was shocked at the level of support I got. i figuired I might need  100 hrs for Dr apointments and "issues"   they plugged in 650. I do work for a large corporation though and any  of my health costs are a drop in the 14000 man bucket so I knew that wouldnt even be a concern.  All the personel reps know their  disclosiing is the same as the  fortune 500  company  disclosing so  I  wasnt at all worried about that.  They also   have on many occasions went out of their way to accomadate  the handicapped  since they do so much busiiness with the govt

[Teresa]

Hubby is lucky that his Dr will see him at 4:00. He gets off work at 3:30 and goes straight there. Its across town so he barely makes it but they said they would wait for him if he runs into traffic. They are really good to him there.

Hugs
Teresa

[Peter6836]

You really only have to tell as much or as little as you wish. I found that telling people I have a chronic condition works. I had an intestinal virus as one of my OI's so I go with coitus. I am not specific about my condition it is really no ones business. I do everything I can to get to work and do the best I can.I have only disclosed to my personal friends. There are more people out there than we realize that have some sort of chronic condition. It is not rare. You only have to tell as much as you want to. I think if you talk to your doctor they should be able to help you out with this. I know mine has.

[Javicho]

I think the chronic condition works, at least for me I have Kidney stones so that's what I said all the time. Make sure HR or your direct boss knows if you want, at least if anythink some one can help or suport you. just my two cents

J.

[AlanBama]

I'd say it depends a lot on your work situation, and how comfortable you are, and how you think the news would be received.   I can tell you that for me, personally, I did not disclose on my current job for quite awhile....I have had HIV for 20 years, but still seem to miss less work than anyone else there.....but I do seem to have a lot of Dr. appointments that others don't have.   I lied a lot, saying "oh it's all related to my cardiac condition" blah blah blah, and then one day, I decided I had had enough lying.   The stress of keeping it a secret was doing more damage than anything, so I marched into my boss's office, closed his door, and told him the facts.

He has been supportive, but not overly so.   I think some of us with HIV seem to focus on it more than people around us do, so I tended to internalize some things that probably no one else payed any attention to.  For instance, if I had to miss time for an appointment, I made sure to make up the time.   I have noticed others do not make up anything, so Alan has a new policy:  I do my job when I'm there, and when I have an appointment I take it and do not worry about missing work.   Life is too short to worry about what others think about us all the time, but I do understand that a job is essential and one must be careful about disclosing.  Do what feels right in your own situation, just follow your instincts.

Hugs,
Alan

[megasept]

Now to my question. For those of you thatdidn't disclose at work, what do you say when you need to take time off? Say that you need to be off 1 day and then after a week you need 3 more days and so on... what is your excuse? I was thinking to say that I have some sort of chronic condition, but I guess they'd want to see some sort of official certificate and I wouldn't be sure what condition I could make up...

Any advice is appreciated.

Answer: Exactly that----a letter from your Physician to HR or equivalent (whether you disclose informally or not is beside the point)
..."My Patient, Jenny Smith, is under my care for a chronic condition that requires time off for medical visits, and occasional unpredictable illnesses...Sincerely, Dr. Kildare, MD."

Never "make anything up"; always disclose the same thing (or less if the person has no direct authority over you) and no more. HIPPA Law in the US strengthens all kinds of protections over privacy and your records and diagnosis. The ADA is another related source of protection. I know people who have done this, and are happy with the result. Good Luck!

   -megasept

[beefbud]

It really all depends on your employer as others have said. 
I recently started a new position (luckily same company but different boss) when first diagnosed and have had 6 doc appts since. UGH bad timing.  After the second I pulled my boss aside and told him, "I have some ongoing health issues that I am currently being tested for and they require me to step out for an hour or two during the day as they are only open 9-5"  His response was, 'no big deal, if you aren't healthy you can't work, take care of you and im sure you'll make up the hour or two here and there."  end of story, all i have to tell him is, "i'll be back in a couple hours."  He knows.

[DavidinCA92284]

Depending upon the company you work for, taking time off during the day gets really noticeable - especially if you have a job that no one else is responsible for.   I use to work at a Fortune 500 and while the policy was to stay home when sick, and they didn't mark off the number of times I was sick, there was an expectation that one would work until the job was done - even if that meant working a 12 hour day. 

I think it's important to note that saying to your employer or boss that you have a chronic illness can label you as a person that might not be able to advance in the company any further - even though it's 'illegal' to descriminate against someone with an illness.   Employers will look at your 'dedication' - which is how many times you've been late to work, or review in their mind the times that you called in sick, to determine who gets the next promotion.   They certainly can write up a bad performance review, not reporting about any 'chronic illness' but claiming 'comments' from co-workers complaining of your unavailability.

For instance, i had to go to a once a week counseling/therapy during work-time.  The only time available was at 4 p.m. in the afternoon on a weekday.   My boss actually came up to me one day and asked if I could schedule my doctor's appointment at a more 'convenient time' - like after work!   For her to ask me this, it meant to me that it was becoming a visable issue for my co-workers and a negative on keeping me on as an employee.   They might have been looking for 'legal' ways to get rid of me - an employee taking off too much time during the day.

I would phone in sick once or twice, but if the situation got to the point where I had to be out more than a week, I went out on short-term disability.   Many organizations have a requirement that if you're out more than 3 days in a row, a doctor's note is required.   And, if the time out is more than that - it's a short-term disability.  You have to find out what the policy is for your work situation.   And, going out on short-term disability is actually a good thing - because it documents that you have a medical situation, without saying exactly what it is.

[vegaslocal39]

One thing that you said in your post disturbed me.  It was when you said that your co-worker is thorough about asking what the illness is.  You co-worker has no business asking such a question.  The issue is between you and your employer, not you and your co-worker.

I have used the same response to any question that I find invasive and out of line.  Whenever anyone asks me a question that is none of their business (regardless of the subject), I respond with a firm but friendly, "Why do you ask?"  This usually shuts them up.  If it doesn't, a simple "I'd rather not discuss it." is a nice addition.

Try it...."Why do you ask"?  People never have an answer for that question.  The only answer would make them look foolish.  I mean who is going to answer, "Because I'm nosy and I can't mind my own business?"

 

[megasept]

One thing that you said in your post disturbed me.  It was when you said that your co-worker is thorough about asking what the illness is...
...Whenever anyone asks me a question that is none of their business (regardless of the subject), I respond with a firm but friendly, "Why do you ask?"  This usually shuts them up.  If it doesn't, a simple "I'd rather not discuss it." is a nice addition.

Try it...."Why do you ask"?  People never have an answer for that question.  The only answer would make them look foolish.  I mean who is going to answer, "Because I'm nosy and I can't mind my own business?"

 

Y E S ! Another related method is to simply restate any question one doesn't want to answer as another question. Example:
"I hear you asking me...[fill in the blank]...". I believe shrinks call this "parroting". Either kills the discussion or it gets really amusing. Seems like some of the folks here might want to learn this technique of non-responsiveness. Sure beats lying. Better for the soul.

  -megasept

[david3012]

Hi

I have tried this a few different ways over the years and have now pretty much decided on keeping quiet about the HIV and using holidays, made up appointments whatever to cover doctors appointments.

In the past, even when Ive had a good reaction to the HIV I have still felt awkward afterwards - people just seem to act differently and its so easy to lose control of who has info about you.

Good luck!

David

[pozMBiM]

Definitly depends on where you work. The only time I have been sick was my seroconversion. My doctor believed in hit it early and hit it hard, so I have been on HAART from the beginning. My fellow employees actually worried about me because I never took sick time off until then.

In any event, though I have to have a physical every year for my job, I haven't told anyone at work about my infection or my meds. Since they don't check for HIV in my physical, they are none the wiser and don't need to be. Should my number ever come up for a surprise drug test, then I'll have to tell the lab because Sustiva can cause a false positive. But they are precluded from telling my employer about any legally prescribed drugs I am on.

As for taking time off for my appointments, well I also take off time to get my teeth cleaned. It isn't unusual for people to take off time for  a routine doctor visit.

[northernguy]

I'm one of those who believes in going to the doc anytime something isn't right, even before my diagnosis (no co-pays in socialized medicine .  Over the last year (since HIV dx) the time-outs for appts has become noticeable, as I'm going to my GP, dermatologist and gastro.  I'm given the time, but it was noted on my performance review, along with "higher than average" sick days (9).  Not a big deal, I'm not going to jeopardize my health for a job.

[jms79]

...Should my number ever come up for a surprise drug test, then I'll have to tell the lab because Sustiva can cause a false positive. But they are precluded from telling my employer about any legally prescribed drugs I am on.

great post newbie76!  i was wondering the very same thing if/when i'd have a more restrictive job.

to throw this into a little tangent....as far as the 'sustiva false positive' thing, i had been looking up info on that a while ago.  i havent been in the situation myself yet, but i have been reading generally the same info:
 http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Workplace/Archive/Drug/Q148649.html
so, if you're uber-discreet about it for whatever reason, there are other alternatives than to just trust (...some of us have seen where thats gotten us :-P) whoever is giving a piss test...especially if you might live in a somewhat small community.

[sweetasmeli]

I won’t speak about my experience in Greece, as that’s a whole other kettle of fish. But I can kind of speak from both angles about my experience in the UK, and hopefully you can get something of use from that.

After I was first diagnosed in 2002 I was going through all kinds of emotional stress, from the diagnosis as well as relationship issues. I was a part time supply teacher and private tutor at the time.

I didn’t disclose as I didn’t just have one employer, as such; I had several (head teachers) at various schools. More to the point, I was nowhere near ready to disclose, to head teachers or, for that matter, parents of my private students. So I didn’t. But the stress of not disclosing, on top of the stress of dealing with my stress from diagnosis etc reached a point where it was almost unbearable. Time off through illness (brought on by the stress), having to lie when people asked me about my situation at home and the stress itself almost finished me off in the long run. It was one of the reasons I upped and left and moved to Greece in 2004, to escape it all.

Anyone that knows me well, will understand when I say that not being able to be open and honest was more difficult for me than the stress itself; it went against the very essence of who I am.

What sweet wise Alanbama said rings with so much truth:

The stress of keeping it a secret was doing more damage than anything

However, I am glad to report that I’ve progressed a lot in the last couple of years, with my perspective about HIV and many things, including my views on disclosure. I firmly advocate the notion that as long as HIV+ people continue to live in secret because of their being HIV+, they continue to help perpetuate the very stigma that they abhor. 

When I was toying with the idea of returning to the UK in Dec/Jan, I purposely went to see the head teacher of one of main schools I did supply work at. I went to ask if he would consider having me back and to explain everything around the circumstances under which I suddenly left, including disclosure about my status. He was understandably shocked and dismayed for me, but also very understanding and compassionate. He assured me that if/when I decided to come back, work would be waiting for me as and when I wanted it. Now I have actually made the decision to go back, all I can do is hope he remains true to his word. 

Whenever we disclose we take a chance with how the recipient will react. For me, disclosure is no longer an issue about trust – whether it be with family, friends, employers or work colleagues – for me, it is an issue of separating the wheat from the chaff, that is, the people I want in my life and the people I don’t. If, on my return to the UK, it turns out the head teacher I told won’t put his money where his mouth is, I will chalk it up to experience, be thankful that I know where I stand and move on to the next school.

However, as many have said here, and I fully understand, disclosure in the workplace does depend on your work situation/employer/how much you want/need that particular job and how comfortable you are with your own diagnosis.

To be honest, apart from the ‘losing money’ factor (if all sick days are used up), I have never understood why people stress out or feel guilty about taking time off from work for sickness. Getting ill is a part of life, HIV+ or not; it’s the reason sick days were thought up. And I’ve never admired those who drag themselves into work almost crippled with the flu or unable to speak from laryngitis or seemingly at death’s door with whatever. I used to think to myself (or even say it to those I knew well enough): Bugger off home with your germs and don’t come back till you’re better! Since being diagnosed, I’m even more inclined to think/say that! And any employer in his/her right mind would to!

If you’re not comfy or ready to disclose, the way I see it, you have 3 choices:

1)   Lie (which I personally would never advocate)
2)   Just say you have a chronic condition (which is true) or
3)   Just say nothing.

If you opt for saying nothing, all you can do is hope your employer doesn’t get p**sed off at you if you end up having to take lots of time off. That’s one of the reasons I opt for disclosure, to pre-empt that scenario.

It so bloody sucks that we even have to ask these questions! Hmmph! In a world without ignorance and stigma about HIV/AIDS, this wouldn’t even be an issue! GRRRRRR!!! (sorry, here endeth my mini rant)

By the way, I loved vegaslocal39 and megasept’s responses to this part…

if I take time off my colleague needs to cover my shift too and is normally quite thorough in asking what is wrong with me...

Made me LOL! I was going to suggest going into graphic detail, like “Man, I was hugging the toilet bowl all night!” or “Hell, it’s a bitch trying to puke and poop at the same time!” etc…:D

Best of luck with your decision!
Melia

[SASA39]

But what one can do when his boss is homofobic, whole country is HIVofobic , and he has a lot of friends with small kids............and what to say to my f&m in low .I would be dead in a spot from shame.........
                 Al

[sweetasmeli]

Al
I cannot speak for you nor what you should do, only for myself and what I would do.

I stand by what I said in my post: For me, disclosure is no longer an issue about trust – whether it be with family, friends, employers or work colleagues – for me, it is an issue of separating the wheat from the chaff, that is, the people I want in my life and the people I don’t.

I don't actually care what people think of me, not any more. If anyone has an issue with my HIV status that is their problem, not mine. If they are uncomfortable in my presence, again, that is their problem not mine. And I'm not saying this because I haven't been through it or come up against stigma, because I have. As many people on these forums know, my HIV status was exposed in my Greek village some time ago and, as a result, I was fired from my teaching job here. So I have had to deal with people talking and staring and gossiping about me, first hand.

I struggled for a long time. And the only time I freed myself from the pain and shackles was when I decided to stop caring what anyone thought about me and be open and honest about who I am, HIV status and all.

Like I said Al, I cannot tell you what to do, only what I have done. But I don't have a partner nor a child. And I don't live where you live. I don't know exactly what you would face as a result of a decision to be open about your status. I like to think I would behave the same wherever I was and whatever my personal situation, but I don't like to speculate with hypothetical situations.

I doubt I would continue working for a homophobic boss, nor would I choose to stay in a HIV-phobic community. I like to think I would aim to educate that community or, failing that, I would move on somewhere else. If my family-in-law were ashamed, then I would look at it as their shame and not mine. I would aim to educate them too and, failing that, keep them at arms length or even eject them from my life. I'm not one of these people who believes blood is thicker than water. I believe we have the ability to choose who we want and don't want in our lives; sometimes those choices are more awkward, but not impossible.

I don't understand your concerns about having friends with small kids? Can you explain?

Melia

[SASA39]

Facts :
1.I`m 43 ..........in this age one could hardly expect to find another job especially in a transition country with a lot of bribery........And my first job as a mechanical engineer was good but a short one due to a hospital treatman 4-16 Oct.My previous jobs were physical by nature.( without payed social  or pension security ).And my boss was homophobic ( he has spoken once about that he is worried because his son could be in a strange company of ballet dancers........and said: "They are probably all faggots" ). Also it was a very stressful job with tons of related Excel sheets and CAD drawings so one must be highly focused all the time(and with that heavy burden on your back and Sustiva time it is a really heavy ).And it was from Mon-Sat 06,45-16,45 with 15 miles travelling .................

2. As I have write before here is HIV stigma enormous.People do not wanna be in the same room with hivers.They are also angry because "we with our expensive medicine  are stealing their part of social security cookie , and we just have got what we have deserved".And our "friends and neighbours" would be happy just to see me and my wife miserable, because we were working hard to achieve our place ( my wife is PhD.D ) without any gossips.

3.My wife is a public worker , we do know a lot of people and because of my wife`s job which includes a kind of a health care , I`m afraid that she would be suffering physically and emotionally in case of disclosure.

4.My friends have a children too and they would expell us from their company for sure because of their children`s health and their ignorance regarding this disease............

5.My children would have a life long tattoo of a HIV ( like Jews ) and everytime someone could say ( in lack of other arguments ) : " Your daddy is HIV , he is a disgrace to a human society , maybe you are too.....?"

And they are just innocent girls with a lot of laughs and fun ( 5& 10 ).When I hear them laughing my heart is breaking.............

I feel inside my self like i have betrayed whole my family ( my ancestors , mom & dad ) and that there is only one solution to my problem.............

6.One doc has said to me : " Do not tell a living soul ! "

7.There are no support groups at all and only schrink  supposed to work with us is a pompest lady who gave me her propositions (" read , play music , life is beautifully, why do not tell your friends and see who is a real one" ? ! ?..................Yes i have seen other hetero patients in a doc`s checkup , but in a second if they see that you want to talk about this matter they hide themselves in a shell, saying : " I do not know a thing.............."Same story is if you want to talk to that mather with doc`s.

8.Because of the notorious image of my country we need visa`sa for almost any country,and it is hard to get a working papers for us now because of HIV testing...................

9.VL and CD4 device are broken , no resistance test and a occasionally shortage of drugs supply are normal here.............and all   our state hospitals are in a lousy state ...........

10.Sexual life is 0.My wife is scared and she has told me that she does not want our children to become lonely one day.........

So it is not a surprise that I`m heavily depressed.........and for the first time in my life I just do not what to do...............If there was not this forum I think that I would be gone a long time ago............Again it is not about myself it is about my dearest..................what options do I have ?
                             Al