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Meds, Mind, Body & Benefits => Insurance, Benefits Programs & HIV => Topic started by: mpositive on March 25, 2010, 12:53:56 pm

Title: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: mpositive on March 25, 2010, 12:53:56 pm
Effective Jan 1, 2011 for HRAs, HSAs and Health FSAs, over-the-counter drugs will no longer be reimbursed without a prescription.  Non-qualified distributions from HSAs will be taxed at 20% (currently 10%).
Ok, so that means, my FSA account will no longer pay for Aspirin, Tylenol and a host of other items.  What a huge bummer...that will cost me an extra few hundred dollars a year.  And 10% more tax on withdrawals from an HSA.  YAY!  ugh!

Individuals with a pre-existing medical condition who have not had insurance coverage for six months or more may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days of enactment and remain until 2014. Premiums for the pool will be established for a standard population and have a 4:1 age band.  Maximum cost-sharing will be limited to $5,950/individual and $11,900/family in 2010.

Ok, so based on this, it appears that the maximum an individual will pay is $496.00 a month.  If I am reading it correctly..

High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.

Effective in 2013, reimbursed medical expenses may only be deducted on tax returns if they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income.  This increase is waived for individuals age 65 and older for tax years 2013 through 2016.

Another bummer....

Effective Jan 1, 2013, FSA contributions will be limited to $2500 annually. 
STOP!!!  That's another $500.00 or so dollars a year to an employee....WOWSA!  Ok, I know there are good things in this bill too, but man, I am getting smacked around here.




Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Hellraiser on March 25, 2010, 01:00:03 pm
That 2.35% income tax on people making more than 200,000.00 a year isn't a 2.35% increase it's a .9% increase up from 1.45% (which they already pay).  Honestly if you make 200,000 a year and you're bitching about being taxed less than 1% of your income you should go to another country where making that 200,000 a year isn't even possible.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: LordBerners on March 25, 2010, 01:19:35 pm
High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.


Another way of looking at it is this:  income is a privilege, especially very unusual and enormous incomes like $200,000 per annum.  Taxation is best understood as a reduction in privilege - it is the original highly unequal income which is 'unfair'; the taxation makes it more fair.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: phildinftlaudy on March 25, 2010, 01:29:52 pm
Another way of looking at it is this:  income is a privilege, especially very unusual and enormous incomes like $200,000 per annum.  Taxation is best understood as a reduction in privilege - it is the original highly unequal income which is 'unfair'; the taxation makes it more fair.
and in many cases the tax codes particularly as they pertain to those with an ungodly amount of wealth need to be changed to be more fair -- call me a socialist if that is what seems to fit, but I just don't get how there are those out there with fortunes of $1 billion plus and still getting substantial breaks on their income tax and they are even to collect social security benefits....  I remember a professor telling me that analogy wise most if the income scale was a building it would be the Empire State Building and the majority of people would reside on the first floor -- the wealthiest on the top floor control the majority of the wealth -- that is just too great a disparity and we are seeing the consequences of that disparity now. 

I am always amazed though when people who suffer as a direct result of so many unfair policies that benefit the wealthy stand on the sides of those with the wealth that are benefitting -- all the while they are losing ground -- do they somehow think that if they support those policies that make the rich richer that they will somehow join them someday --- NEWSFLASH:  AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. 

And the tea parties and ways that many of those against Health Care Reform are acting (i.e. violently) are showing the true colors of many.

Sorry - had to vent....  (Breathe Phil, Breath..... ooohsa, ooohsa) :)
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Assurbanipal on March 25, 2010, 01:32:38 pm


Individuals with a pre-existing medical condition who have not had insurance coverage for six months or more may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days of enactment and remain until 2014. Premiums for the pool will be established for a standard population and have a 4:1 age band.  Maximum cost-sharing will be limited to $5,950/individual and $11,900/family in 2010.

Ok, so based on this, it appears that the maximum an individual will pay is $496.00 a month.  If I am reading it correctly..

Well... actuallly...$5,950 is the individual out of pocket maximum on co-pays, deductibles, etc.   The premium rate is not yet established.

High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.

As Warren Buffett points out, he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.  That is mainly because he doesn't pay Social Security taxes once he hits the Social Security taxable wage limit although he does pay Medicare taxes on all his wages.   That's a 6.2% tax rate that he (and his employer) do not pay on wages above $106,800.  By paying an additional .9% it means that the tax gap in favor of the wealthy due to Social Security payments goes down to only 5.3%.  

Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: madbrain on March 25, 2010, 01:42:51 pm
Effective Jan 1, 2011 for HRAs, HSAs and Health FSAs, over-the-counter drugs will no longer be reimbursed without a prescription.  Non-qualified distributions from HSAs will be taxed at 20% (currently 10%).
Ok, so that means, my FSA account will no longer pay for Aspirin, Tylenol and a host of other items.  What a huge bummer...that will cost me an extra few hundred dollars a year.  And 10% more tax on withdrawals from an HSA.  YAY!  ugh!


You can still ask your doc to prescribe those things for you and get reimbursed for them.

Quote
Individuals with a pre-existing medical condition who have not had insurance coverage for six months or more may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days of enactment and remain until 2014. Premiums for the pool will be established for a standard population and have a 4:1 age band.  Maximum cost-sharing will be limited to $5,950/individual and $11,900/family in 2010. [/i][/u]
Ok, so based on this, it appears that the maximum an individual will pay is $496.00 a month.  If I am reading it correctly..

$496 maximum/month in copays, but that's in addition to the premiums, which haven't been established yet.

Quote
High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.

I have never fallen into it either but I think it's fair, we have some of the lowest tax rates for developed countries overall, and get the fewest benefits - in particular lack of healthcare. It's a fairly modest tax increase and the benefit is tangible, especially if you later retire early (with lower income, and no longer subject to the tax) and now have access to healthcare that you couldn't previously have access to.
Some of my coworkers with stock options will be hit and are bitching about it - I hope they stay healthy their whole lives. Short-term thinking ...

Quote
Effective in 2013, reimbursed medical expenses may only be deducted on tax returns if they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income.  This increase is waived for individuals age 65 and older for tax years 2013 through 2016.[/u][/i]
Another bummer....

On the other hand, with access to insurance, your expenses should be capped to some smaller amount and thus the tax deduction wouldn't be as valuable. Currently the expenses are deductible only over 7.5% of AGI.

Quote
Effective Jan 1, 2013, FSA contributions will be limited to $2500 annually. 
STOP!!!  That's another $500.00 or so dollars a year to an employee....WOWSA!  Ok, I know there are good things in this bill too, but man, I am getting smacked around here.

Yes, that one is a problem. I have been contributing slightly over that amount the last few years to my HSA. I can see how it would hurt families especially, vs the current $5,000 FSA contribution limit.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: mpositive on March 25, 2010, 02:44:40 pm

I think someone hit a really good point though, although still hate to see how much hate out there for folks that make a lot of money.  Personally, I never have, and never will prescribe to the thinking that everyone should make similar amounts and be happy with that.   SS tax should not stop, that I always thought was a little silly.  But otherwise, I am completely against punishing someone for making more money.  Of course, the means at which they make their money should certainly be an issue.

Did not realize that the $496 was for copays and such and not the premiums.  Wow, that is scary, I thought it was a good thing at that number, now it's gonna be tricky.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Hellraiser on March 25, 2010, 02:48:07 pm
Someone who makes 200,000 a year still has much more disposable income than someone who makes 30,000 a year. 
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: mpositive on March 25, 2010, 07:30:55 pm
That is not true at all.  I am not sure how you figure things out.  Then again, I am not sure where you live either. 
If the person making 200k lived like the person making 30k, then your answer would be correct....otherwise, it is seriously flawed.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Hellraiser on March 25, 2010, 07:33:43 pm
No individual is taxed more than 49% of their income.  So 200k can never be less than 100k.  My income at 30k was about 25% so you do the math, unless the 200k guy was balling like a rockstar (and spending beyond his means) then yes his 100k is going to go further than my 22.5k post taxes.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Assurbanipal on March 25, 2010, 07:55:59 pm
With the possible exception of Berners I don't think anyone has advocated class warfare.  And because the American dream is in many ways one of improving one's financial position, its not likely that would sell very well in America -- nor has it ever sold for an extended period.

But to the extent there has been any recent class warfare in America, it was primarily during the Bush Administration and the wealthiest Americans won. 

If you look at the last 50 years there have been increasing returns to education and increasing rewards to the very top performers.  And that has slowly increased economic inequality.  But the Bush years saw the top tax rate drop dramatically, even though the richest 20% were already getting a bigger slice of total wealth.  Under the Bush tax cuts -- especially the cuts on dividends and capital gains taxes which generate so much of the income of the highest income people -- the average tax rate on someone who has a million dollar income is LOWER than the average tax rate for someone who earns the median income.

Economists fight over the details (especially over how much of the Social Security tax you should include) but the pattern is clear.  Economic disparity has widened, while the tax rates paid by the wealthiest individuals declined.  So there is a definite fairness argument.

The usual counterargument is that fairness is all very well but a rising tide lifts all boats, the rich use the money so wisely that they grow the overall economy faster for everyone. Unfortunately, recent history doesn't help this argument.  The only significant period when econmic disparity narrowed in the past 40 years was during the Clinton Administration, when taxes were raised very moderately on the rich, the economy boomed and he left office with the federal budget projected to be in surplus until approximately 2022.  And total wealth (GDP) blossomed for all segments of society even the rich -- just not to the point where they got almost all the gains in GDP (vide Bush).

So, a return to the punitive marginal tax rates of the 50's is probably not needed nor wise.  But some reallocation of tax policy, some modest increase in marginal rates for the wealthiest in income and a return to the prior or modestly increased capital gains rates could generate more prosperity for all Americans, rich and poor.

Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 25, 2010, 09:33:07 pm
You all seem to feel like people who make $200,000 a year are not entitled to the money they worked hard for. It's easy to sit around all day and complain that you want some of every one else's money. I don't think that's fair. Why is the person making $200,000 a year any less worthy of their income than I am?

And I don't get this argument that "they don't need it". Says so? And so what? Is everything you own a "need"? Don't you think people might like to save a little bit of money? $200,000 a year is not that much. I grew in a household where the male head of the household was the only one who worked. He made about $500,000 a year and was able to support my entire family. My siblings and I went to private school, we had nice clothes, a nice house, and we never wanted anything. We went on vacation to Puerto Rico and Europe every year to visit our family, we went to Disney World once a year, etc. But you know what? All of that money was EARNED by hard work. My grandfather was never home, he was always away on business, he had a doctorate in nuclear physics. He earned his income.

People who want the government to steal from others and give it to them are just jealous. I thank God we have Republicans in office to defend our country from greedy people.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: madbrain on March 25, 2010, 09:42:17 pm
No individual is taxed more than 49% of their income.

Not only in income tax, and not as a percentage of total income, but if you count marginal tax rates, both federal and state, social security, medicare, and also account for sales taxes (what are the dollars good for if you don't spend them someday?), social security, and the employer-paid portion of it (it still comes out of the same pool!), it can add to quite a bit more than 49%, and you don't have to make $200k to get there.
It's mostly the middle-class who work for wages that end up getting taxed as those high rates actually.  The rich get to pay lower capital gain taxes, no SS tax, no medicare, possibly no state income tax if they have a residence in a state free of income tax. Warren Buffet famously said that he pays a lower overall tax rate than his secretary. It's a rigged system.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: SoSadTooBad on March 26, 2010, 12:20:30 am
it's definitely a rigged system.  as someone who lives in a high tax city in a high tax state, I can tell you that my marginal tax rate exceeds 49%.  until we send a clear message to washington, albany, scaramento and everywhere else that politicians spend our money without a care, we will only see this increase - not just high income people, but all of us.   a real investment in health care and health care reform is valuable and overdue, but that is not what we just witnessed being passed in washington.  a travesty. 
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 12:54:23 am
(http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/images/top_marginal_personal_income_tax_rate.gif)
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: tednlou2 on March 26, 2010, 01:14:44 am
I "accidently" got a look at my brother's partner's W-2.  He is a doctor and it said he made right at $185,000.  It said he paid like $43,000 in federal tax.  I was good at English and history, but sucked at math.  Isn't that below 30%--at least as percentage of income?  He also gets back decent refunds, so he actually paid in less.

Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: tednlou2 on March 26, 2010, 01:18:53 am
(http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/images/top_marginal_personal_income_tax_rate.gif)

This reminds me of what I've read about the tax rates back in the day.  Many were paying like 70% and I even remember reading how Frank Sinatra was paying around 90%.  I've heard that story over and over--I think during the election Obama's campaign made reference to it.  I guess this is how the U.S. got things done and weren't running debts to China.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 05:07:28 am

Rank 6 State Income (per capita) State and local taxes (per capita) Rate
50 Alaska $44,872  $2,871  6.4%
49 Nevada $49,371  $3,245  6.6%
48 Wyoming $53,163  $3,714  7.0%
47 Florida $46,293  $3,441  7.4%
46 New Hampshire $48,033  $3,642  7.6%
45 South Dakota $39,103  $3,079  7.9%
44 Tennessee $38,090  $3,160  8.3%
43 Texas $42,796  $3,580  8.4%
42 Louisiana $39,116  $3,286  8.4%
41 Arizona $38,174  $3,244  8.5%
40 Montana $36,793  $3,158  8.6%
39 New Mexico $36,031  $3,114  8.6%
38 Alabama $36,372  $3,144  8.6%
37 South Carolina $35,419  $3,127  8.8%
36 Mississippi $31,836  $2,834  8.9%
35 Washington $48,574  $4,334  8.9%
34 Colorado $48,300  $4,359  9.0%
33 North Dakota $39,612  $3,637  9.2%
32 Missouri $38,084  $3,508  9.2%
31 Iowa $38,636  $3,589  9.3%
30 Illinois $46,693  $4,346  9.3%
29 West Virginia $32,145  $3,000  9.3%
28 Indiana $37,279  $3,502  9.4%
27 Michigan $39,273  $3,694  9.4%
26 Oregon $39,444  $3,719  9.4%
25 Kentucky $34,339  $3,243  9.4%
24 Delaware $44,889  $4,253  9.5%
23 Massachusetts $56,661  $5,377  9.5%
22 Utah $35,971  $3,446  9.6%
21 Kansas $40,784  $3,911  9.6%
20 North Carolina $37,508  $3,663  9.8%
19 Oklahoma $38,415  $3,761  9.8%
18 Virginia $47,666  $4,669  9.8%
17 Nebraska $40,499  $3,983  9.8%
16 Georgia $37,850  $3,735  9.9%
15 Maine $38,309  $3,835  10.0%
14 Arkansas $33,395  $3,351  10.0%
13 Idaho $36,492  $3,670  10.1%
12 Minnesota $46,106  $4,688  10.2%
11 Pennsylvania $43,796  $4,463  10.2%
10 Rhode Island $44,463  $4,533  10.2%
9 Wisconsin $40,953  $4,194  10.2%
8 Vermont $42,626  $4,410  10.3%
8 District of Columbia $70,730  $7,308  10.3%
7 Ohio $38,925  $4,049  10.4%
6 California $47,706  $5,028  10.5%
5 Hawaii $46,512  $4,920  10.6%
4 Maryland $52,709  $5,669  10.8%
3 Connecticut $63,160  $7,007  11.1%
2 New York $55,032  $6,419  11.7%
1 New Jersey $56,116  $6,610  11.8%

Federal Tax

(http://www.moneybluebook.com/images/2009-federal-income-tax-brackets-rate-schedule-comparison.jpg)
Then you have city taxes on top of those.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 09:40:52 am
I guess this is how the U.S. got things done and weren't running debts to China.

The USA is hardly the only country in debt. Most European countries take atleast twice what we take in taxes and they still are in debt. The USA was not the only country hurt during the recession. We may have more debt than other countries, but we have, unfortunately, been fighting a war that has been mostly pointless.

I just think it's funny, though that people who don't work think their opinion counts when it comes to taxing others.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Jeff G on March 26, 2010, 09:47:56 am

I just think it's funny, though that people who don't work think their opinion counts when it comes to taxing others.
[/quote]



Many of us who don't work now are disabled but have paid taxes in the past . Are you suggesting our opinions do not count ?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:02:37 am
Yes, that is what I am saying. People always seem to want some of what everyone else has and when they don't get it they accuse the person who has of being greedy, never realising that they are guilty of what they are accusing others of.

I have said before to my colleagues that I don't believe people who don't work should be able to vote, with the exception of those who are retired or those who have lost their job recently, but had been working consistently before. Your vote may end up dictating how my tax money is spent, why? I put in over 60 hours of week at work, when I usually don't even feel like putting in 1. I go to work because I need money to survive. I have countless times before about quitting work and getting on disability, but I've chosen to keep working. Every dollar I earn belongs to me and I have no one to thank for it but myself.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Jeff G on March 26, 2010, 10:05:42 am
 Wow , such a hardworker and humble to boot .
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:14:29 am
I don't need to be humble. Everything I have I've earned. The government doesn't give me any subsidies, I go out and work for what I have.

Maybe I am a little biased. I have a family member on disability, but there is nothing wrong with her. She worked for years and years and years and then moved to another state without finding another job. When she couldn't find one after a few years, she got depressed and then got on disability. She has been on disability now for 5 years and she has not looked for a job since. She brags about how she gets all of this stuff from the money she gets. She has an Iphone, with all the bells and whistles, top of the line computers, exotic birds and snakes, and a whole lot more. She sits around all day eating ice cream and whatever else she eats, and then calls my house to complain about how Republicans are ruining the country and if only wealthy people paid more taxes everything would be better for her.

To me, that is what most people on disability are like.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 10:19:08 am
I'm smelling bs.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Assurbanipal on March 26, 2010, 10:19:51 am
Yes, that is what I am saying. People always seem to want some of what everyone else has and when they don't get it they accuse the person who has of being greedy, never realising that they are guilty of what they are accusing others of.

I have said before to my colleagues that I don't believe people who don't work should be able to vote, with the exception of those who are retired or those who have lost their job recently, but had been working consistently before. Your vote may end up dictating how my tax money is spent, why? I put in over 60 hours of week at work, when I usually don't even feel like putting in 1. I go to work because I need money to survive. I have countless times before about quitting work and getting on disability, but I've chosen to keep working. Every dollar I earn belongs to me and I have no one to thank for it but myself.

You seem to be missing a couple of points here:

1) Many people who work and make far more money than you do think it is unfair that those who earn LESS than they do pay a HIGHER percentage of income in taxes.  (Unless of course you are Bill Gates in disguise, I think it is safe to say that Warren Buffet earns more than you do.)

2) Republicans do NOT represent the monolithic views of people who would be subject to this tax.  In fact  people who earn over $200,000 per year supported Obama by a slight margin in the 2008 elections.  The income group that tilted most toward McCain was those earning about $100,000 and they were about 50/50.

A

Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Jeff G on March 26, 2010, 10:21:29 am
I'm smelling bs.


I agree ... He is here to stir the pot I think .
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Assurbanipal on March 26, 2010, 10:21:57 am
I'm smelling bs.

I'm smelling family disfunction.

First we hear about his lovely life as what I believe he would describe (technicallly speaking, of course  ;)) as his grandfather's bitch.

Now the ice cream fetish.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Dachshund on March 26, 2010, 10:27:40 am

To me, that is what most people on disability are like.

You should report your sister to the authorities, instead of using your very slim anecdotal evidence to paint people with disabilities with such a broad brush. Give me her name. I'll report her, her birds and her snakes.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:37:46 am
I'm smelling bs.

what's bs? That's I work? Why is the idea of someone working so hard to believe?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 10:39:41 am
To me, that is what most people on disability are like.
Really? I don't know anyone that enjoys being on disability. Where is the enjoyment?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Rev. Moon on March 26, 2010, 10:41:01 am
I grew in a household where the male head of the household was the only one who worked. He made about $500,000 a year and was able to support my entire family. My siblings and I went to private school, we had nice clothes, a nice house, and we never wanted anything. We went on vacation to Puerto Rico and Europe every year to visit our family, we went to Disney World once a year, etc.

I have a family member on disability, but there is nothing wrong with her. She brags about how she gets all of this stuff from the money she gets. She has an Iphone, with all the bells and whistles, top of the line computers, exotic birds and snakes, and a whole lot more. She sits around all day eating ice cream and whatever else she eats, and then calls my house to complain about how Republicans are ruining the country and if only wealthy people paid more taxes everything would be better for her.

To me, that is what most people on disability are like.


::yawn::

the fetid aroma of your BS is overwhelming.

(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz42/livebythemoon/Pretentious-1.gif)
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:41:08 am
Boy, my comments about not working must have really struck a nerve. It makes me so angry, I think I'll go do some "tina", take 40 loads up my rear, and the philosophise to my meth head friends about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay more taxes to help me support my meth habit.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:42:14 am

::yawn::

the fetid aroma of your BS is overwhelming.

(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz42/livebythemoon/Pretentious-1.gif)

Sorry, what does my growing up wealthy, which was years ago, have to do with a relative of mine being on disability? I don't see the connection.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:43:50 am
Really? I don't know anyone that enjoys being on disability. Where is the enjoyment?

You get to sit around and soak up funds, while complaining about how those funding your lifestyle aren't paying enough. That sounds like a lifestyle to me.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 10:44:44 am
Boy, my comments about not working must have really struck a nerve. It makes me so angry, I think I'll go do some "tina", take 40 loads up my rear, and the philosophise to my meth head friends about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay more taxes to help me support my meth habit.

fascinating analysis
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Dachshund on March 26, 2010, 10:48:27 am
Boy, my comments about not working must have really struck a nerve. It makes me so angry, I think I'll go do some "tina", take 40 loads up my rear, and the philosophise to my meth head friends about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay more taxes to help me support my meth habit.

Honey, you're here. It's obvious you've already taken a few up the pooper.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 10:48:50 am
How old are you ATorrez? Do you have an incureable OI to go along with your HIV? When were you infected and how long have you been infected?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:51:40 am
(http://janeheller.mlblogs.com/meth.addict.jpg)

.... says wealthy people need to pay more taxes.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Dachshund on March 26, 2010, 10:52:47 am
(http://janeheller.mlblogs.com/meth.addict.jpg)

.... says wealthy people need to pay more taxes.

Tell your sister to put down the pipe.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:53:31 am
Honey, you're here. It's obvious you've already taken a few up the pooper.

.... okay, and? The point is I have been proactive in bettering my life. I don't sit around waiting for money to come to me in the mail, money that I haven't earned.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 10:54:03 am
Tell your sister to put down the pipe.

I'll be sure to. :-)
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Rev. Moon on March 26, 2010, 10:57:47 am
Honey, you're here. It's obvious you've already taken a few up the pooper.

No Doxie, you got it all wrong.  Miss Ashley Torres of Catalan descent (her family's fortune must be old money from the house of Gaudí) would never mix with such characters or do such sinful things.  I'm surprised that she still calls the meth addict, ice cream-fed, snake collector her sister.  Quelle horreur!
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 10:59:00 am
How old are you ATorrez? Do you have an incureable OI to go along with your HIV? When were you infected and how long have you been infected?
I'll ask you again. How old are you ATorrez? Do you have an incureable OI to go along with your HIV? When were you infected and how long have you been infected?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 10:59:25 am
Someone here is obviously high as a kite and smoking a crack pipe, but they're in denial and projecting.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Dachshund on March 26, 2010, 11:00:07 am
.... okay, and? The point is I have been proactive in bettering my life. I don't sit around waiting for money to come to me in the mail, money that I haven't earned.

Okay, and you should have known better and then you could have a somewhat more legitmate argument. Unless you pay privately your expensive healthcare costs are passed on to others. Smart guys like you would have used protection before sitting on a diseased dick.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:03:30 am
Someone here is obviously high as a kite and smoking a crack pipe, but they're in denial and projecting.

I didn't know people high on crack were capable of putting together a thought. You must know from personal experience.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: GSOgymrat on March 26, 2010, 11:07:29 am
Am I the only person in the United States who doesn't wig out about paying taxes? I also work 50-60 hours per week but I choose to do that, as you do, ATorrez. I know that part of my working pays to teach kids that I don't have, pay for wars I don't agree with, and help people who can't work. That is what being part of a society is about and I don't expect a trophy. Part of my journey with HIV has been appreciating that I can work. I know from my experience, and particularly my partners experience, that it can all go away tomorrow.

If your sister is stealing from the system then you should report her. Not everyone who is on disability is stealing.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:12:05 am
LOL. It's my aunt, not my sister. My sister is not even 18 yet.

GSO,

The point I was saying, though, is that people who don't work should not have a say in where others tax dollars go. I don't mind my tax dollars going to education, police force, or other essential services. What I do mind, is people who do not work and soak up money they didn't earn, saying that THEY think I should pay more taxes to help them fund their lifestyle choice.

I have more respect for the person who gets out of bed and goes to work at McDonalds for $7.25 an hour, because atleast the money earned is his.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Moffie65 on March 26, 2010, 11:14:30 am
A Torres,

My judgement; you are a sad and very dangerous person.  Dogma is your dogma, and the things you say about many of us who have been in the fight for better drugs, better treatment, insurance, respect and help for HIV+s over the years is astounding.  It makes me sad that I really gave a shit for hateful people like you.

No I can't work, do I miss it? Of course.  I so very much wish I could work again, and yes, I really miss the money, but does that keep me from living?  NO.  Oh how I wish I had waited to get HIV until is had become a CHRONIC MANAGEABE FUCKING DISEASE but that wasn't in the cards, and my HIV has been dibilitating, miserable, introduced me to death and pretty much fucked up the end of my life.  Then I come to an HIV/AIDS support site, and I see some hateful person like you, spouting your vitriol for those of us who have no choice, or ability to really be productive members of society, and you rub that fact into our emotional and mental wounds; with the joy and satisfaction of a child.  I'm out.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Hellraiser on March 26, 2010, 11:20:36 am
So you're making some assumptions here that with some of us aren't really valid.

First, some people who have paid taxes for a large majority of their adult life are no longer able to work not because they do not want to, but because they cannot for whatever reason.

Second, you may become one of those people, but you will still have a say in how government is run

Third, the problem with healthcare isn't that people who can't work don't have it.  The problem is that people who do work but don't make enough money can't afford it.  There's also the fact that you (yes you) would be turned down for every health insurance you attempted to get because you have a pre-existing condition of being HIV+.  This bill allows those of us with a pre-existing medical condition to actually acquire healthcare, because the practices of the industry were unfair.

So instead of attempting to work up an ad hominem argument against people who don't or cannot work (of which I was until recently one) you should be focusing on the fact that this legislation is going to keep you from being completely unable to acquire the healthcare that you so desperately need.  I'm assuming you are not on Ryan White or ADAP since you are so viciously attacking those of us who require federal aid?  Those two funds are pulled from tax dollars if you weren't aware.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:33:38 am
No, I don't need ADAP or Ryan White, my job provides insurance to all employees and it can not be turned down. My prescription co-pays are $10 for 3 months for generics, $35 for three months for brands that do not have generics, and $70 for three months for drugs that do have a generic, but you choose the brand. I would rather not burden a system with my problems.

I have know a few people who were on ADAP in my state and they said the way they were treated was horrible.

You need to realise something about insurance companies, that many of you don't seem to realise. They are businesses, and business are in the money of making money. You name for me one successful for profit business that does not make a profit and still manages to thrive. My HIV meds each cost about $1000 a month. Now, I looked into my state run HIGH risk plan and tried to see how much my premiums would be if I went with them. The highest premiums with the state run plan were $500 a month, which is half of what it would cost to buy one medication for HIV. So with just one medication the insurance company has already taken a loss of $500, then add on the others that are needed to form a good combo.

Insurance companies are in the business of making money, as all businesses are.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 11:36:58 am
By ATorrez, March 24, 2010
Quote
I am a nurse and I love working with patients, it's the most rewarding job in the world.
Have you ever read the Nurses Code of Ethics? I hardly doubt it, it sure shows that you don't abide by it.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:39:27 am
Nurses code of Ethics says nothing about what you're talking about. Maybe you might point out to me where it clearly does, without interpretation or skewing it for political reasons.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 11:41:51 am
Now that I got your attention. How old are you and when did you contract HIV?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:44:23 am
I'm old enough to drink, not old enough to collect social security. I contracted HIV when I was barely old enough to be having sex with the guys I was having sex with.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Hellraiser on March 26, 2010, 11:45:01 am
Yes Health insurers are in the business of making money which is why they need to get the hell out.  The health industry isn't like say the car industry where you can pick and choose what you want and if you have enough money to buy it.  You either live or you don't, this is why there should be no profit motive for healthcare at all.  You build enough padding into the system to keep those who work in it paid, but no one should be buying yachts off of the money they can wheedle out of people with serious diseases.  Oh and Health insurers pay a lot less for drugs than the average consumer does if you were wondering.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:48:42 am
I know they do, there is a slip that comes in the mail everytime I have any "claim" filed with my health insurance company. It tells me how much the provider charges, or how much the drug cost, how much the negotiated rate was/is, how much they paid out, and how much of that difference is my responsibility.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 11:49:14 am
Nurses code of Ethics says nothing about what you're talking about. Maybe you might point out to me where it clearly does, without interpretation or skewing it for political reasons.
Here is two that you fail to do.
Preserving dignity
Promoting health and well-being
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 11:50:29 am
I'm old enough to drink, not old enough to collect social security. I contracted HIV when I was barely old enough to be having sex with the guys I was having sex with.

For someone who comes on a web forum accusing everyone of being "government bitch" (your words, separate thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31756.msg390975#msg390975)) meth addicts you sure are hesitant to disclose things about yourself except in the most vaguest of manners.  Gotta wonder about that.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:54:36 am
Here is two that you fail to do.
Preserving dignity
Promoting health and well-being


And how is what I am doing or saying against that? When I am in the hospital or with a patient I never make a comment about their living situation or anything like that, I'd be fired so quickly my head would spin. Just because I don't support people on welfare and government assistance telling me how much I should pay in taxes, does not mean I am not following the nurses code of ethics.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 11:56:46 am
For someone who comes on a web forum accusing everyone of being "government bitch" (your words, separate thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31756.msg390975#msg390975)) meth addicts you sure are hesitant to disclose things about yourself except in the most vaguest of manners.  Gotta wonder about that.

Yeah.... I wonder.... I'm under no obligation to give you information about myself, just like you aren't obligated to give me anything. For all I know you could be a nun who secretly likes to troll the AIDSMEDS forums, at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to me.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 11:59:25 am
And how is what I am doing or saying against that? When I am in the hospital or with a patient I never make a comment about their living situation or anything like that, I'd be fired so quickly my head would spin. Just because I don't support people on welfare and government assistance telling me how much I should pay in taxes, does not mean I am not following the nurses code of ethics.
I don't believe that you are meant to leave the Nurses Code of Ethics at work. When you walk out the door you are still a nurse and if you act this way around the patients you see I would state you are a piss poor one to boot.

I'll be the first one to say it, I don't believe your are HIV positive either.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 12:03:13 pm
secretly likes to troll the AIDSMEDS forums

Your dirty undergarments are showing again, or else you're projecting.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 12:03:36 pm
If only your opinion was the truth.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 12:04:31 pm
If only your opinion was the truth.

Should we set up a poll?  I'm like totally game.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 12:05:05 pm
Your dirty undergarments are showing again, or else you're projecting.

Honey, go back to your crack pipe or your tina or whatever it is you do. Just remember my tax dollars are keeping meth running through your veins 24/7.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Miss Philicia on March 26, 2010, 12:09:07 pm
Honey, go back to your crack pipe or your tina or whatever it is you do. Just remember my tax dollars are keeping meth running through your veins 24/7.

personal attacks aren't very pretty.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: RapidRod on March 26, 2010, 12:09:57 pm
There is no one that has HIV and or AIDS acts like that.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Tim Horn on March 26, 2010, 12:16:21 pm
Honey, go back to your crack pipe or your tina or whatever it is you do. Just remember my tax dollars are keeping meth running through your veins 24/7.

Not cool -- there's really no reason to take your argument to this level. Consider yourself warned. 
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Rev. Moon on March 26, 2010, 12:18:22 pm
Honey, go back to your crack pipe or your tina or whatever it is you do. Just remember my tax dollars are keeping meth running through your veins 24/7.

Sugah, I have reported you and your broad attacks.  Your judgmental ways will not work around here.  Whatever the reason was for you to join us you have seriously taken the wrong approach.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Moffie65 on March 26, 2010, 12:23:09 pm
So, A Torres is a nurse.................

For those of you who think your HIV/AIDS doctor or nurse, walks on water and is the end all and be all of HIV/AIDS advise;  Please keep track of this new and aggressive member of these forums.  You will soon enough learn that a title certainly does not make a person whole and wonderful.

There are other members of this website who are "professional" nurses, and I request you speak to this subject.  Tennessee, are you out there?  You know who you are, I'm just waiting for you to weigh in  :)
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 12:24:17 pm
Not cool -- there's really no reason to take your argument to this level. Consider yourself warned. 

Does it not matter that I have been atacked over and over again for my opinion? Double standard for oldies and newbies?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 12:30:17 pm
I'll probably get banned for this, but Tim Horn, if you look at this post where Moffie calls me out of my name and makes personal attacks, you will see below it that all Ann did was say "you know better than that". I, who just got here, get warned, but people who have been here for years don't?

I was simply using the same tone and attitude that was presented to me when I posted something. Should I sit and be attacked and say nothing back?

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31756.msg391149#msg391149 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31756.msg391149#msg391149)
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: skeebo1969 on March 26, 2010, 12:30:54 pm

   I guess this is one of those "new guy trying to fit in and not being allowed to" scenarios. ::)  I wonder why, a nurse of all people, would come to a support forum where people are afflicted with something that has caused death to this very day.  Atorrez, many of these people you choose to offend in this thread are survivors from the days of getting your diagnosis and being told to get your affairs in order.  Many of these people are the ones who have marched on the steps of their state capitols to get the government to wake up and realize something needed to be done back in the 80's.  Many of these people have suffered such side effects from meds and OI's that make it impossible to work.  What would you like for them to do, or I guess what should we do?  Sweep them under the rug, give them less dignity, let them die?

   I understand why Rod keeps asking how old you are, and  your sister/aunt should be on disability.  You should realize the trauma she went through to be both your sister and aunt.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: ATorrez on March 26, 2010, 12:36:53 pm
I understand why Rod keeps asking how old you are, and  your sister/aunt should be on disability.  You should realize the trauma she went through to be both your sister and aunt.


Another personal attack with no warning or consequences.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: skeebo1969 on March 26, 2010, 12:39:25 pm
There is no one that has HIV and or AIDS acts like that.

Rodney I totally agree, then again  his familiarity he has shown he has of some of us makes me wonder.


Another personal attack with no warning or consequences.

Just going with your story hombre, so now you're the victim here?
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Tim Horn on March 26, 2010, 12:40:16 pm
I'll probably get banned for this, but Tim Horn, if you look at this post where Moffie calls me out of my name and makes personal attacks, you will see below it that all Ann did was say "you know better than that". I, who just got here, get warned, but people who have been here for years don't?

I was simply using the same tone and attitude that was presented to me when I posted something. Should I sit and be attacked and say nothing back?

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31756.msg391149#msg391149 (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31756.msg391149#msg391149)

In yesterday's thread, Ann reminded both you and Moffie to watch your language. And here you are today, accusing a member -- and, quite frankly, it makes not difference whether it's a veteran member or newbie -- of meth use 24/7. So, yeah, you're officially warned. To keep yourself out of trouble, simply report any personal attacks to the moderators.
Title: Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
Post by: Tim Horn on March 26, 2010, 12:42:47 pm
Christ. I'm shutting this whole damn thread down. I can't see the conversation recovering from all the bullshit here. Skeebo, consider yourself warned as well.