Author Topic: Almost Embarassed to be from NC (Read 6131 times)

David_CA · « **on:** March 03, 2009, 11:54:49 am »

NC House Bill 361 was filed yesterday. Yep, I was always kind of proud of the fact that we weren't one of 'those' states with a DOM bill. From this bill:

Quote

Whereas, of the 15 states in the Southeastern U.S., only one has failed to pass constitutional amendments defining marriage as "the union of one man and one woman." Florida voters approved the question on the ballot in 2008, leaving North Carolina as the only state in the Southeast that has taken no decisive action to pass a marriage amendment...

As with most bills of its kind, the 'need' to be like others is mentioned, but nowhere is there a mention of states that DO allow for some sort of same-sex unions or marriage. There is no mention of Canada and many European countries allowing for them, either. No, we need to be like the rest of the conservative South. No, there are no other pressing issues at hand, such as the State's budget, environmental problems, etc. Instead, let's write discrimination into state law.

Text of the bill: www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2009/Bills/House/HTML/H361v0.html

General info on the bill: www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2009&BillID=H361

When will they stop trying to legislate morality? How about this: stay out of my bedroom / relationship and I'll stay out of your church.

David

Basquo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2009, 12:47:25 pm »

I think you should email each of the 4 a-hole sponsors and tell them something to the effect of "Look, you moron, is this really where you should be focusing your work right now? Is there nothing else going on that you could be doing?"

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:03:16 pm »

It's the South, what do you expect?

David_CA · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:39:44 pm »

Quote from: Miss Philicia on March 03, 2009, 01:03:16 pm

It's the South, what do you expect?

A lot more, actually. We've not had a bill like this introduced until now, so I guess that differentiates us just a bit. We also don't have much, if any, in the way of HIV laws like some states do (not all of them are Southern, either).

One thing that's not right about this bill is that they propose to put it to a vote. How many bills are 'signed' into law by vote? Certainly not many. I've voted in just about every local and state election and every presidential election. I don't recall any laws being decided by popular vote... just things for raising money for school buildings. Those BS senators are trying to hide behind a popular vote. They know damned well that they couldn't handle the heat from getting this into law directly. I wonder how many other 'similar' votes - voting rights for blacks and women, anti-miscegenation laws, etc - would have passed? Just because an ignorant public that has been given misinformation agrees with something does not make it a good law. We have elected officials to represent us for our best interest.

David_CA · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2009, 08:40:23 pm »

A good friend of ours, who is straight, has sent letters / email to those supporting this bill. She's also forwarded the info to a bunch of her friends to do the same. I hope those of you who are concerned about this sort of legislation living in NC will do what you can, too!

AndyArrow · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:40:38 am »

I would also try targeting Lewis, Crawford, Burris-Floyd & Hill as primary sponsors of HB 361 when it their next election comes around. I would do the same for James Forrester as primary sponsor of the senate version SB 272. Let them know this is going to be a campaign issue.

Also the current wording of HB 361, specifically as regards amending Article 14 of the North Carolina Constitution to include:

"Sec. 6. Marriage.
Marriage between a man and a woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid
or recognized in this state."

seems to implicitly violate Article IV, Section I of The US Constitution. This is the "Full Faith and Credit Clause". Which until 1996 would have been good enough to have it thrown out a Federal level. Since 1996 and the passing of the Defense of Marriage Act, Congress has proclaimed it has the power to override the Constitution in this matter. This is really a matter for the Supreme Court to decided, unfortunately with the current justices we have it seems unlikely the would overrule Congress. It's a scary world we live in.

I live in a state where same-sex unions (let alone marriages) are prohibited by statute so I really hope the voters of North Carolina see this bill as the bigoted amendment that it is. Have your friends get in touch with the American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina

http://www.acluofnorthcarolina.org/

to see what other action can or is being taken.

Good Luck!!
AA

David_CA · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2009, 08:09:27 am »

Thanks Andy! I guess the really sad and embarrassing part of this whole thing is how little uproar has been made about this. Hell, anti-Proposition 8 support was nationwide. We even had a rally / protest here in support of those it effects. It's amazing how quiet those same folks are when legislation doesn't directly effect them.

AndyArrow · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:21:29 pm »

It's very sad.

After the passage of Prop 8 it seems many activist are just willing to write off traditional red states as lost causes.

Also, with California's massive media markets the news stations were eager to cover the story. With the economy being the ONLY news story right now unless you get a bunch of same-sex couples to march on BofA Corporate Center in downtown Charlotte the media just isn't going to cover it. I didn't hear anything about this until I read your post.

David_CA · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2009, 01:16:07 pm »

Yeah, it is almost like we don't count. After all, we're only the 10th largest state, in terms of population.

On the other hand, we now have our first female governor (a Democrat) who seems to be pretty much a proponent of gay issues. We also have a new US senator (also a fairly progressive Democrat) and were also pro-Obama as a state in the election. This does differentiate us a bit from the other Southeastern states the bill refers to. I guess it's up to the few of us here who are willing to try and help to keep this from passing.

YaKaMein · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2009, 01:47:21 pm »

Don't lose hope ... this civil rights battle is far from over.

Oceanbeach · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2009, 07:25:05 pm »

Quote from: David_NC on March 04, 2009, 08:09:27 am

Thanks Andy! I guess the really sad and embarrassing part of this whole thing is how little uproar has been made about this. Hell, anti-Proposition 8 support was nationwide. We even had a rally / protest here in support of those it effects. It's amazing how quiet those same folks are when legislation doesn't directly effect them.

The same judges who passed same sex marriage into law in the State of California last year, will be reviewing and hearing testimony on the constitutionality of Prop 8 tomorrow morning, Thursday, March 5th at 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM. Both sides of the issue will be heard. www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme. The millions spent by both sides of Prop 8 during the 2008 election and all the planning in far away locations such as Salt Lake City for the past 10 years to fight same sex marriage in California can prove poor financial planning by the churches as 7 judges make the final decision.

Have the best day
Michael

David_CA · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2009, 08:28:32 pm »

Michael, hopefully those judges will set the precedent we want! Actually, I hope California can serve as a 'model' for fighting these sorts of bills. I hate that 'we' had to spend all that money to fight Prop. 8, but I also think that supporting it will prove money poorly spent by churches. On the same lines, I'd like to see churches loose their tax exempt status for such political involvement. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as to the outcome of those judges decision!

David

AndyArrow · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:32:54 pm »

Quote from: David_NC on March 04, 2009, 08:28:32 pm

Michael, hopefully those judges will set the precedent we want! Actually, I hope California can serve as a 'model' for fighting these sorts of bills. I hate that 'we' had to spend all that money to fight Prop. 8, but I also think that supporting it will prove money poorly spent by churches. On the same lines, I'd like to see churches loose their tax exempt status for such political involvement. I'm keeping my fingers crossed as to the outcome of those judges decision!

David

On that note I thought I should tell you about a facebook group designed to highlight what the LDS church did during the election. It's called: 1,000,000 Strong to Strip the Mormon Church of it's Tax Exempt Status

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=84f95f40f3930b901299d440be47beea&gid=43097336387

The founder of the facebook group doesn't actually think the IRS will actually remove the Mormon Church's 501 3 c status but he encourages everyone who signs on to contact the IRS requesting they investigate the church's finances. I say here's to making the LDS church pay even more in legal fees and David that site might be a good place to post something about the struggle going on now in NC.

AA

marc11864 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2009, 10:10:51 pm »

We don't count. We aren't important and it is only a matter of time until we are added to the ovens.

Facebook groups and begging will not get you your rights when you are willing to hide behind a closet door.

You can't argue the case of Loving vs. Virgina if you aren't willing to be visible 24/7/365 to everyone you encounter!

You can't have it both ways and you can't only congregate in large groups at only Pride parades, the bars and the bath houses.

You reap what you sow.

David_CA · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2009, 11:16:14 pm »

Quote from: marc11864 on March 05, 2009, 10:10:51 pm

We don't count. We aren't important and it is only a matter of time until we are added to the ovens.

Facebook groups and begging will not get you your rights when you are willing to hide behind a closet door.

You can't argue the case of Loving vs. Virgina if you aren't willing to be visible 24/7/365 to everyone you encounter!

You can't have it both ways and you can't only congregate in large groups at only Pride parades, the bars and the bath houses.

You reap what you sow.

Huh? That would imply that we would deprive others of similar rights... besides, I'm always visible. My cloaking device hasn't worked in years.

Miss Philicia · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2009, 11:25:07 pm »

Yeah David. Keep down the hours at the bath house next month, k?

AndyArrow · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2009, 02:03:33 am »

Quote from: marc11864 on March 05, 2009, 10:10:51 pm

We don't count. We aren't important and it is only a matter of time until we are added to the ovens.

Facebook groups and begging will not get you your rights when you are willing to hide behind a closet door.

You can't argue the case of Loving vs. Virgina if you aren't willing to be visible 24/7/365 to everyone you encounter!

You can't have it both ways and you can't only congregate in large groups at only Pride parades, the bars and the bath houses.

You reap what you sow.

I'm sorry that you have such a low opinion of yourself, I suffer from no such self esteem issues.

As a supporter of the United States Holocaust Museum, I found your remark about being "added to the ovens" extremely offensive. Every January 27th is Holocaust Memorial Day. A major theme for this years events was "Stand Up to Hatred".

Maybe you missed the 2008 US Presidential elections but the internet (you know sites like facebook and other social networking sites) were very useful in spreading information and rallying people to a cause.

As for being in the closet ... I practically came out of the womb singing Judy Garland.

On a final note: I have neither reaped nor have I sown. The whole agrarian lifestyle just isn't for me.

marc11864 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:08:44 pm »

I can assure you Andy that I have anything but a low opinion of myself. In fact, I'm riding pretty high from my recent academic achievements upon returning to school after twenty plus years in pursuit of my Bachelor's degree so you needn't be sorry as I don't want nor do I deserve your pity.

A supporter of the Holocaust Museum eh? What an arrogant statement. Here's one for ya, "Gee, some of my best friends are Jews, Blacks, Gays, PWAs, _______ fill in the blank." But Andy, no one is free, while others are oppressed. You may not like the oven comment but unless we start cohesively to be visibly organized and formidable, I assure you that is the direction where we are headed.

Perhaps it is a good thing that you are offended because I am offended too.

I'm offended that it has become open season on GLBTs in the streets leading to the injury and deaths of Jimmy Lee Dean in Dallas, Lawrence King in Oxnard, Jerry Knight in Seattle, Jose Sucuzhaynay in New York and countless others over the past year.

I am offended that other minorities believe it is okay to throw rocks at patrons in our bars.

I am offended that because of inadequate council, we are not afforded the same rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I am offended that there is not one legitimate heir to Harvey Milk's legacy.

I am offended that my partner of four years and I are unable at this time to even live together due to the inequality of immigration laws.

I am offended that the new President feels my rights as a minority is an acceptable loss in Pursuit of his own interests.

I am offended that it is okay to use the excuse, "This is my day off" or "I have to work today" or "I'm not THAT out" to not appear in public in support of our rights.

I am offended that our heterosexual 'friends' will behind our backs vote against us.

I am offended that it is acceptable to remove our rights by majority vote.

I am offended that I am coerced into moving to a more GLBT populated location instead of being allowed to assimilate into the general population free from harm and judgment.

I am offended that religious organizations can protest at the funerals of our friends and loved ones based on their sexual orientation but it is NOT okay for them to protest at the funerals of Gulf War casualties.

I am offended that contrary to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, a religious entity has such sway in our country.

I am offended that for years methamphetamine and alcohol abuse has been not only tolerated, but encouraged in our ranks.

Need I say more?

If singing Judy Garland is your idea of a contribution to our cause it only serves to reinforce why we as a minority are oppressed.

I do come from an agrarian background and have also lived in urban centers across the globe and it is that kind of pithy statement that further separates the haves from the have-nots.

As Peter Finch's character Howard Beale states in Network, "I'm mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore."

AndyArrow · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2009, 02:42:09 pm »

You are the one who said you didn't count. I congratulate you on your academic achievements. As for all of the things you listed that offended you, I was not responsible for any of them.

Your being offended that there isn't a legitimate heir to Harvey Milk's legacy doesn't exactly compare to the Holocaust. You found my stating that I was supporter of the museum arrogant so be it ... I'm arrogant. Your remark is still offensive. You seemed to have then skipped over the next two statements. Most of what you listed as offending you are problems based on other peoples prejudices. That's why campaigns such as the Stand Up to Hatred are so important.

My reference to singing Judy Garland songs was only meant to tell you that I live my life as openly gay man. I wasn't using it to try to establish my CV of activism.

You say we need to organize and be visible and yet when I gave David two suggestion on how to start organizing and getting the message out the rest of the world about this discriminatory amendment to the North Carolina constitution you dis guard them although you've offered no constructive advice on fighting the proposed legislation.

"You reap what you sow" is a rather old fashioned statement and since you have NO idea what anyone here is doing to fight injustices it seems odd to criticize them.

So how about rather than being mad at me start a grass routes campaign of your own.

Merlin · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2009, 03:07:37 pm »

I wonder if they have gay marriages or people on Mormon motherland in outer space before they beamed their BS on earth. The truly scary thing is that a cult religion can actually influence the Supreme Court to motion a state wide vote on Prop 8 when it ruled earlier on the Constituition of equal rights for all. Amazing. It's clearly a revision of the Constitution.

What next? Closet Scientology homosexuals?..Nah...that's too ....hmmm...it does exist doesn't it?.. LOL.

David_CA · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2009, 03:57:56 pm »

Merlin, AFAIK, the Southern Baptists are about as set against us as the Mormons (or is that Morons) are. They may not give as much financially, or may... I don't know, to push for this type of legislation, but here in the Southeast, they are a bigger influence in terms of using religious arguments against us.

Andy, I appreciate your suggestions and the info you've given. Hopefully, others will follow them as well.

Marc, I'd be curious as to specifically what YOU suggest those of us in NC do.

AndyArrow · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2009, 04:51:14 pm »

The possible bright spot in legislatures decision to amend the NC constitution rather than just passing a law banning same-sex marriages, is that a bill would become law as soon as the governor signs the bill.

The next election is November 3rd so that gives a little time to campaign. Although in this case I don't think you have much of a chance of changing the minds some elderly baptist woman into believing that God doesn't hate us. Since this will be an off year election cycle the voter turn out will be (historically speaking) low so a small number of voters can swing an election. So all those liberal college campuses would be a good place to target.

I also thought in trying to highlight this situation nationally that sending emails (or some other old fashioned form of communication) to Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. No guarantees that she even consider mentioning it but it would be easy to work into her broadcasts when she talks about Prop 8. AC at CNN might be another one to try. I'm at least gonna give it a try.

STAND UP TO HATRED

AA

GSOgymrat · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2009, 04:19:29 pm »

Here is an update.

Elon poll: Half oppose N.C. gay marriage amendment

RALEIGH (AP) — About half of North Carolina adults oppose a constitutional amendment that would prohibit same-sex marriage, according to a poll released Monday that suggests state voters may be unwilling to follow their Southern peers in approving such a ban.

The Elon University poll (pdf) released today found that 50.4 percent of respondents oppose or strongly oppose such an amendment while more than 43 percent of those in the survey said they would support or strongly support it. The remainder refused to answer the question or said the didn't know.

Hunter Bacot, Elon's poll director, said the numbers surprisingly mirror national surveys, indicating North Carolina may be more moderate than expected on the issue. About 30 states nationwide have added that prohibition to the state constitution, including California, which approved an amendment in a heated campaign last year....

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/03/23/article/elon_poll_half_oppose_nc_gay_marriage_ban

David_CA · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2009, 04:46:59 pm »

Thanks for the update! I wonder if some of the supporting senators and representatives, whom some of us have been contacting, have changed their views.

Tar Heel · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2009, 05:53:21 am »

Hey David, look at the bright side.... we could live in South Carolina!

David_CA · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2009, 07:54:57 am »

Quote from: Tar Heel on March 24, 2009, 05:53:21 am

Hey David, look at the bright side.... we could live in South Carolina!

How true. It's always good to keep things in perspective and remember our blessings!

jampdx · « **Reply #26 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:14:20 pm »

I guess you should move out here David

David_CA · « **Reply #27 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:16:14 am »

A friend sent this poll on the subject in the Charlotte Observer to us. If anybody wouldn't mind influencing the results (in a positive way), vote 'No' in the poll.

Jody · « **Reply #28 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:20:39 pm »

Hi David...thanks for your efforts down south...As you point out North Carolina (and Virginia) went for Obama, voted down Elizabeth Dole and has many fine advocates for justice. It doesn't matter where we live, there are good and bad folks everywhere. Here in New York we are known as ultra liberal but there are many conservatives, some of whom are basher types, so hate is all over. Keep up the good work!!!

Jody

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