--- Quote from: mecch on July 19, 2013, 08:01:33 pm ---
And bad kharma on all Americans who don't understand how this was an individual's racial profiling and bad and probably racist law conspiring to bring a black teenager down.
--- End quote ---
REALLY? I thought we were all warned about how this thread would go. I've stood silent with my own opinions here and elsewhere but to wish bad karma if people don't feel this is a racist issue?
leatherman:
--- Quote from: skeebo1969 on July 14, 2013, 05:21:29 am ---Like I said, I have no doubt Trayvon got the upper hand in the physical altercation that ensued. You can clearly see that in the photos of George Zimmerman after the incident had occurred. At that point, and under the stand your ground law, one is allowed to use deadly force.
--- End quote --- a bloody nose? a couple scratches on the back of his head? no blood on the "assailant's" hands? no medical attention required? Not much of an "upper hand" and surely, one would think, not reaching the heights of needing deadly force as Zimmerman was no where near being killed or receiving great bodily harm.
This "stand your ground" law (which the defense did NOT invoke; although the judge did erroneously use the phrase in the jury instructions about basic self defense claim) definitely needs some correcting
mecch:
I think it makes sense under Florida law and the way Zimmerman was charged, that he was acquitted. I also think, IMO, that Zimmerman racially profiled the young man, teenager, and foolishly got involved when he was explicitly told to back off. Zimmerman didn't follow with the intent to kill. Martin didn't know what was happening to him or why, but clearly felt threatened by Zimmerman, NOT A COP, following him. Zimmerman could have waited in his car, with his gun, and felt no threat whatsoever.
Instead, it was a perfect storm of a very bad decision by Zimmerman and a very bad law, that if I read this thread correctly, didn't even need to be cited in Zimmerman's defense (!!!), to still cast it's immoral vigilante shadow over the injustice that has just been delivered to Martin and his family.
Obama, the POTUS, says there's a racist element to this whole hideous perfect storm of sadness. I agree.
It's hardly vulgar or aggressive to members in this forum for me to wish bad karma on Americans who can't see how race played a role in this event and very unsatisfying judicial result.
If the majority of black americans are telling us there was a race element to this affair, who are we, non-blacks, to disagree? Please.
mitch777:
--- Quote from: mecch on July 19, 2013, 10:29:03 pm ---I think it makes sense under Florida law and the way Zimmerman was charged, that he was acquitted. I also think, IMO, that Zimmerman racially profiled the young man, teenager, and foolishly got involved when he was explicitly told to back off. Zimmerman didn't follow with the intent to kill. Martin didn't know what was happening to him or why, but clearly felt threatened by Zimmerman, NOT A COP, following him. Zimmerman could have waited in his car, with his gun, and felt no threat whatsoever.
Instead, it was a perfect storm of a very bad decision by Zimmerman and a very bad law, that if I read this thread correctly, didn't even need to be cited in Zimmerman's defense (!!!), to still cast it's immoral vigilante shadow over the injustice that has just been delivered to Martin and his family.
Obama, the POTUS, says there's a racist element to this whole hideous perfect storm of sadness. I agree.
It's hardly vulgar or aggressive to members in this forum for me to wish bad karma on Americans who can't see how race played a role in this event and very unsatisfying judicial result.
If the majority of black americans are telling us there was a race element to this affair, who are we, non-blacks, to disagree? Please.
--- End quote --- One person's viewpoint of someone wishing another bad karma is up for debate but I do agree with the rest of your post entirely.
bocker3:
--- Quote from: mecch on July 19, 2013, 10:29:03 pm ---If the majority of black americans are telling us there was a race element to this affair, who are we, non-blacks, to disagree? Please.
--- End quote ---
Really?? so we, "as non-blacks" can agree on something being racist, but we can't disagree?? Sounds a bit racist, doesn't it? Oh wait, am I allowed to have that opinion??
For the record -- I DO agree that racism was in the Zimmerman / Martin altercation from the get-go, but I simply hate when someone says that one can't have a different opinion on something, like racism, because of --- wait for it --- your RACE.