Newly POZ couple/condoms?

[jimbalaya]

Hi all,

So it's been two months since my partner and I tested postive..we went to the Dr. today for all of the bloodwork results, and he told us that we both have the exact same strand of HIV with no resistance.....

Once we start meds and get to Undetectable, how important is it that we use safe sex together (we used to have 3-ways but I think those days are over)...if we are just with each other and have the same strand....we don't have to worry about superinfection right?  especially if we are UD?   

I meant to ask the Dr. today, but forgot in the moment...we go back in 6 weeks to see how the meds are working, so I'll ask him then too, just wanted to hear your thoughts.    Thanks!   

[jkinatl2]

I have never used a condom with a poz partner. Even when I was far from undetectable.

Being UD (and in the absence of other STDs) I can't imagine there would be any legitimate risk for  problems.

[newt]

You can't get exactly the same HIV twice. Especially if it is fully supressed by meds.

Go enjoy

- matt

[jimbalaya]

woo hoo!   

[0608]

But...  I'm still new to all this, so if I'm just not aware, let me know.  It's just that I thought a + person could get infected with another strain of HIV that could do damage to his or her health.  So it was my understanding that a + couple would still do better by continuing to practice safe sex.  If I'm off, please let me know.

[Grasshopper]

You can't get exactly the same HIV twice. Especially if it is fully supressed by meds.

Go enjoy

- matt

But...  I'm still new to all this, so if I'm just not aware, let me know.  It's just that I thought a + person could get infected with another strain of HIV that could do damage to his or her health.  So it was my understanding that a + couple would still do better by continuing to practice safe sex.  If I'm off, please let me know.

[Ann]

we both have the exact same strand of HIV with no resistance.....

But...  I'm still new to all this, so if I'm just not aware, let me know.  It's just that I thought a + person could get infected with another strain of HIV that could do damage to his or her health.  So it was my understanding that a + couple would still do better by continuing to practice safe sex.  If I'm off, please let me know.

Jim and his partner have the exact same strain as each other, so they can't infect each other with another strain. They don't need to use condoms.

It's wise for any poz person to use condoms with another poz person they don't know well or aren't in a monogamous relationship with, but mainly because of the possibility of being infected with some other STI. Syphilis, in particular, can be more difficult to treat when one is hiv positive and there are antibiotic resistant strains of gonorrhea out there. Why chance it?

But if you know your poz partner and you can be reasonably sure they don't have other STIs, I wouldn't bother with condoms myself. My poz partner and I never use them with each other (but we do with other people).

[0608]

D'oh, missed that part about having the same exact strain.  Thank you for the clarification!

[jimbalaya]

Just to make sure, we asked our doc at our first post-meds appointment Wednesday...he said that we are a 'unique' case because we have the same strand and are taking the same meds...so while he never advises this,  he told us to drop the condoms and have at it.      (he did give a wink though, and say "but I didn't tell you that")

[Mishma]

Unprotected sex between 2 men with the same hiv strain (SUPER INFECTION, 2010) (SEX BETWEEN TWO HIV POSITIVE PARTNERS, 2010)
Feb 19, 2010  The Body


I'd like to know from a scientific point of view, what happens when 2 men with the exact same hiv strain have sex together.. Does it affect each - other's viral load? Or does the strain become more dangerous or something? I have read some time ago, that it may helps the immune system have new responses and that's good.. Is that true? Me and my bf have also HPV but no other STD's and we are strictly monogamous.. What's your opinion?

http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Q206890.html

      Response from Dr. Frascino (RIP)

Hi,

You read that two poz dudes who bareback actually improve their immune functioning. WHAT? Where did you read such nonsense, the Journal of Irreproducible Results? Is it true? No, of course not! Silly boy!

As for your question about two men with the "exact same HIV strain," that is really very hypothetical, because HIV evolves very quickly and quite differently in different hosts. HIV can replicate billions of times each day and consequently small genetic changes occur quite rapidly. So even though one guy may have transmitted HIV to another, that strain of HIV may (and often does) evolve very differently in the two men. If you think about it, this make sense. If the virus was exactly the same, everyone's clinical course would be very similar, and we know that's not the case, right?

[newt]

Ta MIsh, this just proves doctors can be thick. I stand by my previous post., You can have the exact same starin of HIV*, I have the exact (down to the weird nucleoside-affecting mutation) strain as my number one man of the time I got it. Bye docs. Hello healthy, happy, poz on poz shagging.

The clinical course of HIV is largely deteremined not by the virus but the individuals's immunological response to it. Doc really should understand this. Or perhaps stop answering people's questions.

- matt

* In general, as your majority or even perhaps 100% type

[leatherman]

Once we start meds and get to Undetectable,

blah, blah, blah about superinfection. LOL With all the pozzies who have been barebacking with one another for the last 20 yrs, if this was a problem, we'd actually be seeing patients with treatment failure as they became "superinfected". Of course, there has been no uptick at all in infections/treatment failure showing this to be happening at all in reality.

quite simply being UD lowers the chance of transmitting hiv to 4% or less; while being on meds means you are actively on both PrEP and PEP, which studies have shown to nearly reduce the chance of infection to 0% - no matter what strain/resistance profile/mutation you and your partner(s) have.

[jkinatl2]

We've been butting heads with thebody.com for a decade now. They contradict themselves, offer absolutely NO scientific data to back up their claims, and Dr Fransisco, Rest In Peace, was always one of the worst offenders.

I'd love to have had a conversation with him about his shoddy advice over there, in which he often contradicts his previous advice (then goes back and contradicts even THAT) but he's been dead for almost a year. Therefore he can't show us the data he used to arrive at his conclusion. Not that he tended to do that anyhow. It's eerily as if his learning curve evaporated around 2000, looking through his responses.

Why is it so important that you scour the rest of the web to antagonize this forum? When did we become such purveyors of inaccurate and incorrect information? We've "shown our work," as in quantifying our opinions by showing the relevant research.

I just don't get it. Is it that awful to simply have been misinformed? Happens to the best of us. I still can't remember that Percocet has Oxycodone in it, despite being reminded a million times.

[jkinatl2]

Doc really should understand this. Or perhaps stop answering people's questions.

- matt

Not to speak ill of the dead, but at least THAT has happened.

Frankly, I wish people who can't evolve and continue to assimilate new information WOULD stop repeating antiquated/incorrect information. I count myself in that group as well. If I ever become so resistant to new data that I refuse to budge, then it might be time for me to go out to pasture.

[Miss Philicia]

... and don't forget it