POZ Community Forums
Off Topic Forums => Off Topic Forum => Topic started by: Jody on July 25, 2013, 09:57:27 pm
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What do I know out here in the New York City outpost of Queens but rumor has it that the gay (and gay friendly) bar Splash in Chelsea is closing. Back in the day when staying out late in Manhattan even on a work night, and hitting the clubs and bars was a lifestyle I couldn't live without, Splash was a destination.
I see Rawhide, long a staple on 8th ave. in Chelsea has shuttered its doors. Supposedly they were to move to the East 50's, I'm sure I'll be the last to know. Myself I find drinking too much, or even at all has become a bit tedious and I couldn't even fathom getting on the train to go out to these venues anymore. Going into Manhattan it is to go with my buddies to a museum, a show, Central Park, a nice restaurant perhaps. I guess some of the health conscious younger guys, often making less money than a few years back are staying home more often as well.
I mean when it comes to beer in particular I have to admit I have never been a fan of that beverage. And the great tap beers all taste like a bitter concoction from Hell to me as well as the stuff in a can. Then again I don't like coffee much either.
Still it is sad that the good folks that work there and depend on us to tear ourselves away from cable TV and the comforts of our sanctuaries are unable to get enough folks to do so. Competition factors in for these clubs and bars. Also lifestyles ebb and flow. Maybe when I am in my 60's (two years away) I will one night run screaming from the apartment and start to bar hop and club hop (with the other old farts-LOL).
Jody :) :(
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I can't even remember. Did I go to Splash in the 80's or 90's. It must have been the 90s. 80's we would go to Uncle Charlie or Private Eyes or Nell's if we wanted to be a little bit in the west village. Also there was Mars but we preferred Pyramid, still, but maybe back in the west village for Roxy, Tunnel for clubbing.
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Hi mecch. Splash opened in 91. Those years in the early 1990's were the last wild years for me.
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Oh, no! Whatever will we do?! (Which one is Splash again?)
(Fun fact if you know NYC gay bars: I used to be a 'bouncer' at Pieces by night while simultaneously database manager at Film Forum by day. I slept once or twice, haha.)
I actually thought of dropping into Nowhere tonight because I haven't been to a bar in God knows how long. The thought of acting nonchalant while sitting there with a beer I don't really have the stomach for hoping someone would casually start talking to me about Margaret Atwood or something sounded like waaaay too much effort, so I came home and tried to fix this guy's broken iPad instead. I regretted to inform him, I failed and all his home movies were lost to the ages.
On the topic of bars: is it actually true that almost no one goes to bars anymore or is that just something people say like "the Internet is making us dumb" and "get off my lawn"? I don't personally know anyone who goes to bars, but I don't think the people I know are representative of anything. Has Robert Putnam done a study? Surely there are research dollars available for this, if for anything.
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Ed and I were there once, in the very early 80's. Ed's brother took us there, and then later on, we went to the mine shaft. ::)
Ray
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Splash opened in 91.
My mistake,...This must have been the time when Ed's bother took us to splash. It was on our first visit around 1981 0r 82, that we went to the Mine Shaft.
Ray
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On the topic of bars: is it actually true that almost no one goes to bars anymore or is that just something people say like "the Internet is making us dumb" and "get off my lawn"? I don't personally know anyone who goes to bars, but I don't think the people I know are representative of anything. Has Robert Putnam done a study? Surely there are research dollars available for this, if for anything.
I have a feeling that the gay bar will have the same fate that DVD pornography has faced. The same fate as the dodo bird.
I think in all of 2012 I went to a gay bar twice, I can't remember going at all so far this year.
As the gays enjoy more of a mainstream existence the relevancy of gay bars seems to have diminished. I (and my peers) would rather just go to a cool bar. Since the gays are welcome in most places the need to segregate feels less needed.
Or, I'm just old.
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Since the gays are welcome in most places the need to segregate feels less needed.
Untrue in the majority of the world, and certainly the US. We are not all privileged.
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I have no idea on the health or otherwise off the London club scene . which has now sent me on a stream off thought about how much I enjoyed my 20,s , mid 50,s now.
For me it was the the King,s X / Brixton areas, at the moment I am remembering dragging ice up an empty warehouse stairs to fill the old bath tubs with to keep the cans off beer cold.
I cannot imagine the internet replacing going out on Thursday getting home Tuesday,buying fresh rag,s mid way ect.
I would hate to do it now , even if it was possable but during that time it was my life and at times I could not off been happier.
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Here on the Rock, we don't have any "gay" bars per se, but we do have "gay-friendly" pubs where affection shown between a same-sex couple doesn't raise any eyebrows. It's accepted, as it should be.
Most of the pubs are gay-friendly in fact, but there are a few where you'd get harassed without the staff intervening. They're becoming fewer in number, thankfully.
In most pubs, if you started harassing a gay couple or person or transgendered person, you'd get warned and if you didn't shut it, you'd be tossed out on your ear sharpish. Some will even bar you outright.
We don't have any places that would qualify as a sex club (ie bath houses and the like), regardless of the patron's sexual orientation. I'm reliably told there's a lot of "dogging" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogging_%28sexual_slang%29) (involving all combinations of people) going on though. ;D
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If the "dildo" is extinct the gay bar must be on the endangered list.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/cnn-dildo-blooper-extinct_n_3647511.html
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Further news on the gay bar scene in NYC...XL will be closing as will G bar and the Monster will not be renewing its lease. Also I believe I heard that the Eagle, which is on West 28th st. after years of being near the old Spike on the far west side, will go out of business next year to make way for the last thing New York needs and that is another condo development.
I guess restaurants will replace some of these establishments and in fact the only place I drink is in restaurants as I enjoy a glass of wine with my meal these days. Still the bar scene was cool for so many years and I hope most will survive and thrive.
Jody :(
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I have a feeling that the gay bar will have the same fate that DVD pornography has faced. The same fate as the dodo bird.
I think in all of 2012 I went to a gay bar twice, I can't remember going at all so far this year.
I go about once a month, maybe twice.
But even that is getting tedious, with all the cab fees, and or worrying about a designated driver.
It will soon be time for me to retire my glowsticks once and for all :(
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A couple of the gay bars (well at least one that i definitely know of in Wilton Manors - Fort Lauderdale's gay mecca) have closed...
And others definitely have noticed a dip in the number of people going....
I think that in the case of Wilton Manors, a couple of factors are coming into play:
1) over-saturation - there are like 20-30 gay bars in the area.... so there is not a concentration of crowd at any "one" particular bar;
2) many of the bars have the same owner(s) - so there is no "unique-ness" among venues;
3) many of them have lost that down home "grassroots" feel - they are now like corporate establishments.... almost like franchises
4) the rents/leases in the area have definitely went up causing most establishments to raise drink prices - in a town that is mostly service-industry oriented, many people don't make a wage that allows them to frequent as regularly - easier to buy some bottles, etc. and have people over
5) with so many gay people calling Wilton Manors home and so many other things to do there (restaurants, events every few weeks) many are doing those things - plus as said in #4, I think that having such a large gay community in such close proximity to each other, many people are choosing to entertain in the comfort of their homes...
It may rebound - it will be interesting to see how it plays out....
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http://movies.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/movies/the-secret-disco-revolution-has-a-political-subtext.html?_r=0
I saw this docu the other day. Just a reminder that all nightlife has its peaks and valleys but, at least in big cities, it mutates and survives.
Maybe gay bars are fading a bit in the zeitgeist, but I'm sure this depends on the region, the country, etc. I can't imagine bar culture dying out in a city like Hamburg, or New York, or in tourist towns like Key West. But who knows...
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I can't imagine bar culture dying out in a city like Hamburg, or New York, or in tourist towns like Key West. But who knows...
There will always be bars, but I can easily see them fading into the background of 'gay life'. I'm very out of touch with the kids these days, but when I was a young whippersnapper, the only way to meet another gay person was to hang out around truck stops or find a gay bar. I don't think it's like that anymore, so the bar loses a lot of its appeal.
If you're going to drink, it's cheaper at home, or you could just join a rugby team.
If you're going for sex, it's cheaper at home, and you can just get someone quick from Grindr or BBRT or NKP or whatever sick thing you're into.
If you're going out to meet friends, I think there's a trend (maybe not) toward meeting and *doing* something while socializing. Not just standing around drinking.
So, what's the draw of a gay bar now?
Incidentally, I almost went to Splash tonight, because there was an ACT UP thing there. I did go to the meeting last night, but protesting at Splash is a bridge too far.
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If you're going for sex, it's cheaper at home, and you can just get someone quick from Grindr or BBRT or NKP or whatever sick thing you're into.
If you're going out to meet friends, I think there's a trend (maybe not) toward meeting and *doing* something while socializing. Not just standing around drinking.
These are definitely two additional factors..
There are so many more events and other things that gay people can comfortably do together now and much of the time/resources that used to be used at going to gay bars are being diverted to other venues/events and activities.
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So, what's the draw of a gay bar now?
cocaine.
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I dunno, living in NYC in the 80s and 90s there were a godzillion other things to do besides go to bars. Or clubs. Which is already a choice. And what kind of bar? What kind of club. Already, rich choices. And then 100s of other things to do.
We went to bars to be in bars. (Or sometimes in summer because it was air-conditioned.)
Im sure there was always a percentage of people in bars who really don't like being there all that much. Now they can do something else, and uses social networks for the cruising...
Also bars cost money and money is tight, so maybe use social networks for the cruising and do something cheaper, or nothing.
I liked bars and clubs because there was a lot for me to enjoy. Really great people watching, performances. new music, meeting people from around the city and the world, dancing.
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I liked Splash because they had vodka. My bf liked it because they had a pool table.
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I liked Splash because they had vodka. My bf liked it because they had a pool table.
What kind of bar doesn't have vodka?
Anyway, I don't think the bar is going out of flavor its just gay bars that are going out. Last weekend I met a friend for drinks and we went to an awesome bar that was packed with the gays and straights. But it was a "straight bar". There were still gay people there, but it wasn't a "gay bar." www.tavernlaw.com (awesome drinks if your in the neighborhood).
Also, here in Seattle many (not all) of the gay bars just are not that nice. They definitely have an 80's-90's feel (dark, dank, kinda smelly).
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What kind of bar doesn't have vodka?
What kind of bar doesn't have a pool table? They're essential for all sorts of ball games. ;D
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In NYC in 91 a pool table was kind of different. It was Chelsea and the first bar without a dance floor. Kind of the new "lounge" thing "apres" disco. It also had the first shower in a bar that I recall. To get that dank dark 80's smell off the tourists.
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In NYC in 91 a pool table was kind of different. It was Chelsea and the first bar without a dance floor. Kind of the new "lounge" thing "apres" disco. It also had the first shower in a bar that I recall. To get that dank dark 80's smell off the tourists.
I don't know about today, but there were only two gay bars with reliable pool tables in NYC about 5-10 years ago: Phoenix, which is now some sort of lounge, and Nowhere, which I hear is still Nowhere. They had one at Pieces, but it was covered a lot for miscellaneous shows/performances/karaoke.
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The Bar on Ave A. 1980s.
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And now Rawhide is becoming something called a 'Project Pie' pizzeria.
http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2013/08/rawhide-gets-chained.html
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http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2013/08/rawhide-gets-chained.html
An interesting comment from above link by Ok.....
This is just what Manuel Castells wrote about 20 years ago in The Network Society -- disembodied networks of rich people are replacing local neighborhoods in major cities all over. It's all coming true.