Tonight On PBS--Guns and Adam Lanza

[tednlou2]

I know we've been instructed to not have a gun debate here, so we will have to be careful about discussing this.  Or, not discuss it at all.  I never understood such a huge issue being off limits, but it is what it is. 

 I did want to let anyone interested know that PBS is doing a two-hour special tonight, beginning at 9pm, EST.  It is late notice, but we have two PBS stations here, and the other runs the shows later.  I am sure they will rerun the programs through the week, or have them online.

The first is "After Newtown:  Guns in America."  The second is "Frontline:  Raising Adam Lanza."  That airs at 10pm. 

From the interviews I've seen, it seems his mother is viewed in a more favorable light, and they attempt to debunk many mistaken beliefs.  I will have to watch and see. 

[Joe K]

I know we've been instructed to not have a gun debate here, so we will have to be careful about discussing this.  Or, not discuss it at all.  I never understood such a huge issue being off limits, but it is what it is. 

Hey Ted,

I think you may be confusing a "warning" on not starting another gun debate post, after such a post had just been locked.  Other than denialists rantings, I'm not aware that any topic is off limits.  These warnings are pretty common, when a nasty thread gets locked, but their intent is only temporary, to allow emotions to cool.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe the moderators meant to never discuss guns again.

Joe

[emeraldize]

I agree with Joe's take.

I wish I'd know of this PBS set earlier -- I hope it's re-run soon.

So, on the topic of guns -- how 'bout Biden's newest -- Get a shotgun! And how he told his wife (cuz they live in a wooded area which I and a million others didn't know until today) if anyone comes, go up on the deck (implied a second floorview) and fire off a couple of shots. He said that would be more accurate (relevance?) and effective than an AK47 in terms of scaring someone off.  Joe was so impassioned, you can bet there's at least one shotgun in Biden's cave.

I felt like we were watchin' the modern-day Rifleman as VP.

[tednlou2]

Hey Ted,

I think you may be confusing a "warning" on not starting another gun debate post, after such a post had just been locked.  Other than denialists rantings, I'm not aware that any topic is off limits.  These warnings are pretty common, when a nasty thread gets locked, but their intent is only temporary, to allow emotions to cool.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe the moderators meant to never discuss guns again.

Joe

Thanks.  I had thought that surely the subject was not off limits forever, but wasn't sure.  I suppose this is where some communication on my part would have helped, with a simple question to the mods.

Ok, the program was interesting.  The first hour was about the history of guns in America, and how they came here from Europe.  One man says the murder rate went up, ever since the Colt 45 was introduced.  They discuss the Civil War factor.  Millions of guns were made during the war.  And, the government allowed the soldiers to keep the weapons after the war.  We went from guns being fairly scarce to having millions out there.  There is the discussion about whether the Second Amendment is an individual right.  I've always read it, as it is written. 

The second hour is about Adam and Newtown.  There are still many questions left unanswered about Adam.  However, it did provide a better insight into the mental illness Adam suffered.  Frontline obtained pics of Adam, from his youth.  His eyes seem vacant in every picture.  Frontline follows reporters from the local newspaper, as they search for information into the lives of the family, and how bad his illness was.  From a very young age, Adam couldn't not stand to be touched.

One family friend said shooting with him was the only way she could have something to do with him.  It was their only connection.  He had no interest in anything else, with her.  While it does seem like asking for trouble, I did come away with more understanding.  They show emails she had written to friends.  It is apparent she was very concerned about him, and loved him very much.  She was worried about him being "normal" and able to live an independent life.  There came a time when she realized that was not going to happen.  Her friends say reports of her being a gun nut or a survivalist are completely wrong.  They say she had guns, like so many others.  One person who knew them said she and others died, because she failed to lock up her guns. 

While watching it, I thought many would see it as sympathizing with a "monster."  But, he was obviously so deeply ill.  Making him a monster does no good.  I would not say this to parents, who lost their child.  They have the right to feel whatever they want.  Discussing his illness does help, and will hopefully help parents see warning signs, if they exist.  The show ends with the families promising to make change.  They say they need to get educated on gun laws, and they will be testifying before Congress and trying to change things.  They say they know the window of making change is closing very quickly. 

Oh, I did see Biden's comments.  I get what he was saying, but telling people to buy shotguns and fire them into the air was stupid.  When they accidentally hit someone, I guess their defense will be the VP told them to do it. 

[emeraldize]

Here's the YouTube link. It's interesting because he implies firing it into the air, but makes actual comparison to the ease of use, likely hit of a target comparing an AK to a double-barrel shotgun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIuk3G9Xixc

[Ann]

Hey Ted,

I think you may be confusing a "warning" on not starting another gun debate post, after such a post had just been locked.  Other than denialists rantings, I'm not aware that any topic is off limits.  These warnings are pretty common, when a nasty thread gets locked, but their intent is only temporary, to allow emotions to cool.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe the moderators meant to never discuss guns again.

Joe

Joe, you're correct. The last gun thread got locked because emotions were running high in the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook and things were getting nasty (in the thread). If folks have calmed down now and can have a rational discussion without personal attacks, have at it.

But don't think for a minute that this one won't get shut down as well if things get too heated.

[mecch]

The takeaway from the Raising Adam Lanza documentary - the teacher (principal?) who says that Adam was really into World of Warcraft, really into the violent acts in the game, and then he flat out says it was a mistake for the mother to choose shooting as their joint activity.  (Of course, this is all hindsight.) Then the reporters sum up about how she really didn't care to mix into the support networks of other parents with kids with autism and asperger's.

Overall I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth, a judgement that the kid was royally fucked up and the mom was the kind of parent, both narcissistic and ignorant, who thinks parental love is the cure all, the parent who thinks he/she must know best what is right for their kid...  She didn't do what was best. That kid had a lot of power and insisted on his isolation and she seemed globally to have allowed this, he got it for himself and he inflicted it on her.  There's sufficient testimony in the doc that if she had availed herself of her community's resources, she could have protected herself and her community, and maybe had a different result with her son, as well.   But again, this is all hindsight.

____
That teacher who tried to build a relationship with Adam also explains behavior that seems to be PDA - pathological demand avoidance.
http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/related-conditions/pda-pathological-demand-avoidance-syndrome.aspx

It really seems like he managed to get the upper hand over this mom and that isolation and "freedom" provided the opening for his pathology to develop and finally express itself. 

Yes this is just armchair speculation.

[WillyWump]

- Get a shotgun! And how he told his wife (cuz they live in a wooded area which I and a million others didn't know until today) if anyone comes, go up on the deck (implied a second floorview) and fire off a couple of shots.

He also said to keep people away in an earthquake.."Buy some shotgun shells". LMAO. BRILLIANT! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rsUf19LHCQ

and then he flat out says it was a mistake for the mother to choose shooting as their joint activity.  (Of course, this is all hindsight.) T

I'll say it once, I'll say it again...You dont take a child who has known mental issues to a shooting range to try to soothe him.  That shouldn't be hindsight, but maybe I'm a different kind of parent but this conversation would never happen in my house.. "Oh whats wrong Adam, feeling a bit down? Let's go shoot some AR-15's"

-w

[mecch]

I mean its hindsight on the part of the community, looking back on the childhood of a psychotic murderer they knew.  The scout master said all the scouts were shooting guns too. 

I think its important not to hang the violence and pathology on his asperger's (diagnosis that no longer exists, by the way, now its all Austism spectrum).  Just like its wrong to say it's a about guns. Or its about the violent games.  Instead it seems like a perfect storm of bad living and mistakes and deficient parenting, that allowed a pathology to express itself.

[Joe K]

The takeaway from the Raising Adam Lanza documentary - the teacher (principal?) who says that Adam was really into World of Warcraft, really into the violent acts in the game, and then he flat out says it was a mistake for the mother to choose shooting as their joint activity.  (Of course, this is all hindsight.) Then the reporters sum up about how she really didn't care to mix into the support networks of other parents with kids with autism and asperger's.

If someone is going to blame a video game for violent deaths, they picked the wrong one.  World of Warcraft is about as violent as a Looney Toons cartoon, when compared to Modern Warfare, Halo, Grand Theft Auto and dozens of other games.  It frustrates me that folks like this principal can spout off opinions, that have absolutely no basis in facts.

Joe