Author Topic: Dating (Read 8560 times)

bravebuddharich · « **on:** December 29, 2006, 10:22:32 am »

I really want to start dating again - haven't been on a real DATE for more than a year!! I want to get away from casual sex, and DATE. I find it excruciatingly difficult!! First of all, I find it quite difficult to meet single gay men, despite trying to find where they might be hiding here in Boston!! I've tried internet dating, I have an ad on poz.com, but I never ever actually meet anyone (I do get responses, and I've answered some ads, but when it comes to actually meeting, they always get cold feet). I'm 42 years old, and I feel "old" somehow. I know this is just a state of mind, but it FEELS as though if you are over 40, you might as well forget about it!!! I comb the listings in the local gay newspaper for groups, since I also want to make new friends, but I also want to be in places where I can potentially find dates. I've been really disappointed in this regard. I spent 5 years with a wonderful man back in the 1990's and I want a similar loving relationship soon.

I watched that LOGO show "Can't Get A Date" the other night; I thought Robert was someone I would really want to date! I liked him just as much at the beginning as at the end. (I loved the idea of the jazz improv singing before a date!!) I wish I could find places to meet gay men that are GENTLE - I dislike clubs, noisy spaces, etc. Nobody ever introduces me to anyone either (so if you know any single Bostonians....LOL!) I'm ready to date, just need to find guys to date!! Any good advice??

poet · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2006, 10:50:45 am »

Hi. I always say keep opening windows and doors. Your presence here makes you 'available' to guys in the Boston area. You already are on poz.com and I know that there are many guys from Boston on it as well. You might look for community groups (i.e. a jazz group) at a community center which I hope Boston has. Keep in mind that you would have a disclosure issue hovering since a gay men's group is not the same as an hiv positive gay men's group doing something together. If you have interests which aren't being met (as in the jazz singing, not the gay men

think about starting a group yourself. A single shared interest can bring you into the circle of others who share this single interest as well as, hopefully, others. We've had a recent thread in which guys here met other guys doing I have forgotten what, but the post of one guy led to the post of another guy who also participated where he lives. The worst thing for any of us of almost any age is to sit at home and wait. And I admit to suffering inertia when I might have met someone. Best, Win

marco23 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2006, 11:02:29 am »

Hey, first of all, 42 is not old! - you're 'retro'

. Why don't you follow up on the responses you get? Take a chance, you'll never know what happens if you don't try. How about friends? Have you asked them if they know of someone they can set you up with? I've also seen "Can't Get a Date", great show!, but the thing I always get out of the show is to put yourself out there, get out of your comfort zone and unexpected things happen - usually for the better. Take a chance...
You know how that saying goes, "Can't get a date...yes you can".

Blixer · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2006, 11:54:55 am »

Hey Brave,
I can totally identify with what you are saying even down to the point of "feeling old." I'm in St. Louis and I'd love to figure out where/how a person can meet good quality dateable material. I've found my first year with HIV to be similar in that I have been somewhat "afraid" to date. Sometimes I think I"m too selective, but I've also always told myself that I'm not willing to settle. That kind of sounds like the situation you are facing. I've always been told that it will happen when you least expect it or aren't looking for it. And maybe that's true too. But sometimes the wait seems to take forever and we can be pretty impatient, particulary when the age clock continues to tick away. For me, I walked into my latest Clinical Trials Study visit and there was a new nurse. Nurse Neal was very kind, thorough, cute, and in my age bracket. Little did I know that he was gay. As things have progressed over the past 10 days it has gone from meeting nurse Neal for the first time to a "first date" last night. Not sometihng I was expecting or counting on during this week. But it did happen. In the end, it may not go anyplace, but the point is as others have said, yes you can get a date and sometimes it is when we quit worrying about it so much. I had pretty much just decided I would be content to just live single and do casual sex thing. It was so much simpler. Maybe that's where I'll end up again, but at least for now I can say "don't give up... there is hope."

Best of luck and mabye 2007 will be your year!

bravebuddharich · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2006, 04:25:21 pm »

Thanks for the interesting responses - I long for connection, for being less lonely, and more loved. Wish I knew how to better work towards this goal.

There used to be a group called Gay Lab here in Boston, but the website is inconclusive as to whether or not it still exists. I'm looking for more ideas on places to meet - groups, clubs, etc. I'll keep on looking....

Many of the postive men I have met over the years seem ambivalent about dating. I think many of us give up, and take the easy way out and just have casual sex (I've done this from time to time). I also think as we get older, we get more settled in our ways, and less adaptable; we get used to being alone, the benefit of which is freedom to do whatever one wants to do. But I'd gladly give that up for someone wonderful!!

Tell us more about your date, Blixer!

koi1 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2006, 04:51:20 pm »

If a relationship is what you want, don't give up and settle for cheap empty sex, although you can still have it with your eye on the horizon.

rob

rick21007 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2006, 06:18:52 pm »

My brother always told me to wait for the right one!!!! I sure did kiss a lot of frogs in the meantime (and got hepb and hiv in the process, though not _exactly from kissing. ) but my prince did show up and he is sticking around. (thankyou gay.com) Dont give up the dream, bro.

Rick

Blixer · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2006, 09:46:25 pm »

Brave,

I do think that a lot of positive guys give up on dating. I'm only into this a little over 11 months, but I know for me I've met some negative guys that seemed ok about my status on the surface, but I was a bit ambivalent toward things maybe because of my own insecurities and feeling like damaged goods. I don't know, but even though I don't like the lonliness you speak of, I still wonder if I'm ready to put up with all of the potential rejection that I perceive could be out there. And maybe it is my own fears too. Maybe I'm afraid that I can't be the dateable person that I used to be for whatever reaon.

The date with Nurse Neal was very nice. We did dinner and had some very intelligent conversation. We talked out our virus a bit and what it means. We shared a bit of philosophy. He works in the clinical trials unit so he sees a lot of different things. He was talking about the "safe sex counseling and always use condoms when positive" verses the reality of life when a couple are both positive and what that might or might not mean. His own feeling and observation is that individuals are going to do what they decide to do. You can provide the data and the advice. And it was good to talk about "real world" issues surrounding this infection and dating and even the issues of having sex when positive. After dinner we went to St. Louis Bread company for tea and dessert and had more converstion about what we both had for goals in life. And out of that I came to realize that yes, I'm positive, but I'm going to set my goals and work toward them and this virus isn't going to take that from me. I think Neal was expressing the same thing. We ended the night with a simple spoken goodnight and then we corresponded via email talking about doing something else over the weekend. Will this be more than one or two dates??? I don't have a clue. But at least I'm out there and I'm interacting with someone in a similar situation to what I am and it did make me feel much more human than I had felt in a long time.

Thanks for asking about the date.

jcmiami · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2006, 03:01:38 am »

Hell I will be 44 in January, tested positive for AIDS on 10/2006 on, of all days, Halloween (is this an omen of things to come

?) Damn if Boston is bad, try Miami!!! I simply cannot get a date here period! I am over anything "casual", yeap looking for a "rest of my life" partner. I have tried the ads but it seems you have to be 18-30, muscular, good looking with money to get anyone to even "wink" at you on-line or the other extreme ultra-skinny "twink" types...what about us "average joe's"

? Oh yes, since we have so many different nationalities down here, they even want someone within their nationality! WTF!

Eldon · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2006, 03:16:13 am »

Yes, I AM Supporting You!

Hey Brave...

In this situation, you will want to go out and be Social and mingle with the others at events that are being held in your town. Keep your options open. You never know when, who, or where you might meet someone.

Take care of YOU!

Don't You Dare Give Up... Don't You Dare Give In...

BECAUSE It IS ALL Within YOU to WIN!!!

poet · « **Reply #10 on:** December 30, 2006, 04:37:29 pm »

David, what struck me about your date with Nurse Neal, is that you have left things as though you have nothing to do with whether you continue to see him or not. You thought Neal was expressing the same thing about goals. Was the conversation eliptical enough that you weren't sure or weren't comfortable enough with direct discourse? I am not trying to pick on you, but since lot's of guys may be reading this, what struck me was the question of connecting with Neal as other than a clinician, as someone on a more personal level. It may be that you feel that you are simply trying to get to know someone again, getting the wheels going again, which is understandable. It's that damn E.M.Forster thing of 'only connect,' and I don't mean stars bursting overhead, but connecting with someone, feeling yourself able to go into his or her head and not continually lost. If you feel like it, it would be great to hear a bit more from you about where you were with Neal. Best, Win

gvolts5 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 30, 2006, 06:41:24 pm »

Dating isn't happening for lots of guys; cute, old, young, whatever. Most of the gay crowd is single nowadays, not too many guys are in relationships. If a relationship does happen, things go well for a certain amount of time, then it starts to fall apart, then it does fall apart. The pain and hassle of the breakup is often really difficult, that plays into this equation.

So my first point is this: just because you're single doesn't say anything about you. It doesn't mean that you aren't a terrific partner, it doesn't mean that no one wants you, it doesn't mean that you are too old, that you aren't cute, etc. etc. etc.

More likely it means that on a broader sociological level a large part of the gay crowd isn't doing relationships. Many prefer casual intimacy, many don't want to gamble on a relationship, many guys find that living single offers a better lifestyle, etc.

Ironically, the best way to get into a relationship is to live well on our own; to live life and live it well. So whether we are single or whether we are in a relationship, we still have to go to the gym, do the diet, read that book, take that class, and maybe even go to a concert a couple of times a year. (Not the opera though, we don't have to go to the opera, thankfully. Ha.)

Living single is awesome. Don't buy into the myth that it's lonely. Many guys say that their single years are their best. I'm not against relationships, they are terrific too, but living single can be just as fantastic.

John

Blixer · « **Reply #12 on:** December 30, 2006, 08:24:11 pm »

I don't want to hijack Brave's thread here so Win, I'm giong to start another thread to go into more of the issues and situations with Neal. I agree that understanding what is going on there can be valuable but it does diverge a bit from what I see as Brave's initial direction.

But I also want to agree with John. I think that being single can be awesome. I think one of the biggest victories you can have is when you come to the point where you decide that you can be okay if you are single. It doesn't have to be lonely. I have a best friend and we spend lots of time together. We are both single. I also think that there is a place for a relationship and if the relationship is built with the right person, then it can be tremendously enabling for both parties. I see a kind of synergy that develops in those types of relationships where each individual brings out the best in the other. Not that that can't happen as a single person, but sometimes the relationship just enhances that. So I'm glad to see John make his point and particularly when he says that "just because you're single doesn't say anything about you. It doesn't mean that you aren't a terrific partner, it doesn't mean that no one wants you, it doesn't mean that you are too old, that you aren't cute, etc. etc. etc.". I think that is so true. And I do believe that it is only when we are satisfied with ourselves that we can be the best possible partner in a relationship. Just my thoughts.

naftalim · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2006, 12:14:45 am »

Its all relative, isnt it? I'm 51 and straight, so no dates at all

Well, I did actually have a short long distance relationship with a really nice poz lady from back east for a while, but Im here and shes there. My problem is that I'm 51 and feel/think 30 so I want to date 30 year olds.

I agree that this is the hard part for me. I do have a small group of very close friends, and that helps keep me sane.

poet · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2006, 05:37:02 am »

Naftalim, you will be glad

to hear that many gay men are the same: they feel as though they are still (insert 18, 19, 20, upwards but ending before 30) and so ignore anyone who might be interested in them who is close to their own age.

Keeping with Brave's thread before venturing out, one of the problems which gay, straight or somewhere 'other' have- speaking for men since that is where my experience lies- is that yes, you can have a full life as John and David state being single. What you can't have is a shared life to the extreme degree offered by a relationship other than a close or good friendship which involves jumping over hurdles together which wouldn't be in place in a friendship, i.e. someone tricking. Best friends are allowed to have sex with others. The two people in a relationship, a partnership, however have to deal with what happened. Your finances are intermingled in a partnership in ways which they aren't in a friendship. But if you have chosen well and wisely, you have exactly that person you need right in front of you, 24/7, for good moments with your shared dogs/cats, for bad moments with a health crisis, for a career promotion which one receives and the other benefits from to bankruptcy caused in part by one partner's overspending.

In other words, to be able to become part of a relationship or partnership, one has to be willing to work for mutual benefit over individual benefit, that shared life over the carefully shared life and it is, as pointed out here, often difficult to let someone else interject into these decisions. Win

heartforyou · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2006, 05:38:52 am »

I am 51 and I am very convinced that falling in love and dating has no age limits. However the process is different and more relaxed, although the passion remains.
I personally have always felt that someone, somewhere, was going to cross my path. It did with Jean-Pierre, who died from a heart attack.
Never been waiting for Love , with a capital L. Don't think it is realistic anyway.
Just looking for hearts, connected and caring, with respect.

I did meet Rich at the Toronto AM in 2005. The connection was there, but it just didn't work out. In another life it will.

Dan had crossed my path even before that. He sent me some Pm's as soon as I joined. We felt good in each others cyber presence. Then we met in Montreal and I felt at ease with this man.

Dating for me is feeling accepted, respected, loved, empowered, energised by my partner. Sex : comes somewhere in the middle of the scale. Hugs and kisses,caresses and bodywarmth : that is what counts with me.
Holding hands and watch TV with my lovers head in my lap, that's the best part.

But most of all : no expectations. I just live the love. We are here for today. Tomorrow is a mystery and yesterday is history.

Hermie

poet · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2006, 03:04:53 pm »

What I had written up earlier in a program which my computer has now decided it doesn't want to or can't open, was what artists show us in their work. How the Henry James of Roderick Hudson, written about and during his perhaps closest approach to men, is so different from The Golden Bowl in how the relationships are handled. How Sargeant doing portraits for commission comes across quite differently than Picasso doing the same about his mistresses. How few books we might have ended up with had James Merrill not had David Jackson. Or how Merce Cunningham, although he was choreographing apart from John Cage, might not have done the work he has done during that time had it not been for the presence of his partner. The wearing emotions on our sleeves which we so worry about in dating, in the dating process, is what often shows in an artist like Frank O'Hara writing about a lover as opposed to writing about Joe LeSoeur, his sometime roommate. In other words, the allowing the emotions to be there, even if we get hurt in the process, is part of the reason for being in a relationship with someone, someone with whom this is where you can be, not the more distanced relationship between even best friends. Win

bravebuddharich · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2007, 10:30:50 am »

I personally don't care for the single life. I really do thrive better with a partner in my life. I miss the feelings of intimacy and connection. Since my friends are almost all long-distance right now, I also miss & want new friends, but I find many of the same issues there.

I always find myself in such a quandary where gay men are concerned: I am gay myself, but I find for the most part I dislike more gay men than I like, find them to be much too selfish, too materialistic, too... willing to hurt others, their feelings, this need for superiority, for mastery, at the expense of others. Yet I get clobbered for saying so - it's always turned on me, and I don't agree at all with that!

I am in love with my doctor. But I also resent him. I can't explain this well, it just IS.

I'm unhappy this morning, so it's probably not the best time to be posting anything. The holidays were lonely for me; family can only be there so much, friends would be nice to have around, as I go to movies by myself, eat by myself, do everything by myself! I had some casual sex, which was fine, but not really what I want. The mechanics are there, but the feelings aren't.

Rich from Boston

DanielMark · « **Reply #18 on:** January 01, 2007, 10:46:25 am »

I always find myself in such a quandary where gay men are concerned: I am gay myself, but I find for the most part I dislike more gay men than I like, find them to be much too selfish, too materialistic, too... willing to hurt others, their feelings, this need for superiority, for mastery, at the expense of others.

I hear ya, Rich! What anyone else thinks about that? Hey, that's their baggage not mine. They can keep it.

Better prospects in your new year, Rich!

Daniel

poet · « **Reply #19 on:** January 01, 2007, 11:53:25 am »

I owe you a direct reply to your issues, Rich. I realise that you are perhaps not in a good mood today, but am happy that you have known the intimacy and connection which, to my mind, is what we are looking for from and in a relationship. Not the ability to then say that 'my partner knows _____' or 'my partner lives at the _________' or another from Can You Top This. Which you commented on in the second line about materialism, etc. And let's face it, part of the connection is being able to say exactly what you feel to be true and not having to catch yourself in mid comment because you are sure that this will not be received well by the other person, the person (you) are perhaps trying to all but please (from the gay manual: How to Sell Yourself to a Potential Partner).

Interesting comment about your doctor, if, at some point, you can unwind that a bit for what you mean. Do you, for example, resent him because he is 'your doctor' to you, ignoring your feelings about him?

If nothing else, I hope you might 'resolve' today to see if some of us can help with the isolation, with the stepping out part, even if you get slapped around a bit in the process, so that you keep getting out there. Best, Win

Buckmark · « **Reply #20 on:** January 01, 2007, 12:48:06 pm »

Rich said:

Quote

I always find myself in such a quandary where gay men are concerned: I am gay myself, but I find for the most part I dislike more gay men than I like, find them to be much too selfish, too materialistic, too... willing to hurt others, their feelings, this need for superiority, for mastery, at the expense of others.

I've certainly had these thoughts myself (i.e. "all gay men are pigs"). When I think about it more,
though, I can't help but wonder if I feel this way because I am just bitter (ouch) because I am 42
and still single, when so many of my friends have good relationships. Then I also go on to think that,
since I am a gay man, don't I fit that description too (to some extent)? The answer for me is
yes. Though I've tried to learn from my past mistakes, I've certainly made plenty of them.

Applying this to my thoughts about why I don't have a partner, is the problem with me? Or with
other gay men? Both? Is there no problem here? The answer for me is all of the above.
I want to be accepted for who I am (I think most people do). That means my good side and
my ugly side. Yet I'm deathly afraid to show my ugly side, my faults, for fear of rejection. But
how will another person really get to know me unless they see it all? Likewise, am I willing to
to really get to know and accept everything about a potential partner (good and bad)?

I'm not exactly sure where I was going with this. Maybe it's that we need to communicate more
openly and honestly about who we are and what we want. Maybe it's that we need to accept
people for who they are, instead of wanting them to live up to our expectations. Maybe it's that
we need to be happy, comfortable, and accepting of ourselves, before we can be happy,
comfortable, and accepting of others (a prerequisite for a good relationship). Maybe it's that
we need to be happy being single, because we just don't know if/when we will meet a
compatible partner -- but we do have to keep putting ourselves out there if it is ever going
to happen.

Maybe these are just my issues, and not yours (or anyone else's). So I'm afraid I may have
hijacked your thread. I'm not sure if any of this will help you. It's all so much easier to write
about this than to actually practice it.

Regards,

Henry

Blixer · « **Reply #21 on:** January 01, 2007, 02:03:22 pm »

Hey Rich, I do totally understand what you mean about not caring for the single life. I hope I didn't give the opinion that I think that is preferable or that I think it is the way to go. I have just found that in the past when I was looking so hard for someone to keep me from being single was when I made the biggest mistakes. And the last time that happened I almost let someone destroy me. So I had to deal with some really deep issues. In the process of having my self esteem destroyed and allowing someone to do that I ended up just flat not caring. I locked my heart up went through a pretty miserable time. It wasn't until I accepted the fact in myself that I could be okay being single (not that I would prefer that) that I began to see some things that had gone wrong in the past and I started rebuilding my life. I also thought your comment on the casual sex was very interesting. I find that so true. It may satisfy for the moment, but I find it leaves me very empty later. I can also understand loving your doctor but resenting him. I think I've had similar feelings about individuals.

I'm sorry your New Year has started on a level that is lower than the best. I think the holidays can be difficult for a number of us. I found myself fighting a bit of despair at times. I guess maybe I've just either learned to cope or have numbed myself to it. Maybe that's bad. I don't know. But I do want to join in wishing you an improved day and a hopeful light for the new year. I hope you can find some support here as you continue your quest. Thanks so much for starting this post. I think it has brought out a lot and has made several of us think deeply.

Queen Tokelove · « **Reply #22 on:** January 01, 2007, 02:33:23 pm »

Hey! I can definitely relate to what you are saying. I am soon to be 38, not bad on the eyes but am alone. I often question myself and wonder if something is wrong with me. I have been alone now just over a year or a bit longer. I often lose track of time. At first I was having casual sex to scratch the itch but then it wasn't enough. I want more. But there actually isn't a lot to choose from here. I seem to attract guys old enough to be my father and that is just Eww. The guys around my age are either cracked out, involved, or drug dealers. And then even the young ones try to get with older women so they can get a reputation or notch on their bedpost or they are drug dealers too. And this is the neg men.

As far as poz people go, I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. I am not into support groups and doesn't feel that is the place to try to hook up with someone. I have tried the online dating sites but has not had any success either. Just wanted you to know that you aren't alone in your feelings.

DanielMark · « **Reply #23 on:** January 01, 2007, 03:26:09 pm »

I've certainly had these thoughts myself (i.e. "all gay men are pigs").

Henry,

I know you say the above may or may not apply, but I just want to comment.

I don't think ALL Gay men are any certain way. I do however frind a large percentage of us are too vain and selfish to dig deeper than the back of our wardrobes. LOL

Relationships take work. Period. Too many Gay men I've met don't seem to want to. Easier to just jump on to the next new thing, which unfortunately includes people sometimes. There's no meaning in that (for me).

Daniel

poet · « **Reply #24 on:** January 01, 2007, 04:55:19 pm »

Henry, I think that we are all saying the same thing about dating, the problems of how to date. If we are single, we are stuck (so obviously, right?) wondering why we are single. Well those who have partners were single before they had partners. Looking carefully at our friends who have good relationships, looking intently at their relationships, should help us with how they got into one, how they remain in one, whether or not we would change places with them and/or with their choice of a partner.

Again, 'we' do a dance around each other, 'we' single people. We often try to guess the sort of person which this sort of person seems to (from his/her profile) indicate that he/she would like to meet which may or may not be 'us.' But 'we' are still drawn toward him or her, so are stuck to some degree feeling compelled to perform, to do the dance. Which leads to a gap between who 'we' are and who 'we' seem to be or are trying to be. In my case I can assure you that I sent volumes of emails/messages out to potential takers this Fall leading to each and everyone disappearing in silence. I'm a poet. I'm a writer. How else am I likely to communicate except through words. TMI?

So how can each of us in this thread get to point A? We can keep posting away. We can keep the doors open, suggest new ones to each other, admit our successes. Admit our failures. (In dating 2007, that is.) Try to be as open as David has been so that we can understand why we did or said what we did or said. Differ in our responses from time to time. Agree at times as well. Realise that, in my opinion, we have gotten to know each other via these forums in ways that can't compare to the personals, although here we are only voicing our opinions and insights and successes and failures and not primping to attract a mate. We flirt, openly. We show our emotions to each other. We do all the things, here, which we need to learn to do 'outside' the forums. In the personals. In the 'real' world of dating out there. Win

bravebuddharich · « **Reply #25 on:** January 01, 2007, 06:04:44 pm »

I've posted the same thing 3 times now, only for my computer to not have it go through. I think gay men are delusional, not pigs. Or most gay men, not all. My bad mood is because I've been trying so hard to socialize, and only getting more and more exhausted and frustrated. My doctors' appt. is tomorrow, hoping for continued good results. Meeting my new therapist on Wed., not sure if I will like him or not. That's the short version! Wonder if it will post!!

Buckmark · « **Reply #26 on:** January 01, 2007, 08:21:39 pm »

Daniel -- I apologize for implying that you believe all gay men behaved in any one
particular way (including the behavior of a certain species of farm animal). Clearly
that was going too far (and must have originated from within me).

Rich -- I know what you mean when you say that socializing can be hard, exhausting,
and frustrating work. For as hard as I've tried in 2006, I obviously have more work
to do on this in 2007. Best of luck to you with your upcoming doctor's appointment
and therapist's appointment.

Regards,

Henry

DanielMark · « **Reply #27 on:** January 02, 2007, 03:19:54 am »

Henry,

I didn't take that comment personally, so no apology required. I was just thinking out loud really.

Daniel

GSOgymrat · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2007, 05:48:49 am »

My partner and I were talking about dating the other night. He said he didn't think he could stand having to go on dates again. I think that being HIV+ and having to do the disclosure thing would suck but I used to find dating fun. Honestly if it wasn't fun I wouldn't have done it. Of course not every date goes well but then you have an interesting story to tell your friends the next day.

All my adult life I have heard "gay men are (fill in the negative adjective)" from gay men. It drives me crazy because these gay men are talking about themselves and their friends. It's some internalized self-hatred trip and I just don't buy it.

Another lie that I just don't buy is that gay relationships don't last. My older brother and his partner have been together since 1974. I know other couples who have been together 20+ years. I've been in a relationship over 14 years. Admittedly I'm first to point out that longevity isn't everything and no relationship lasts forever. However just because something isn't going to last doesn't mean you shouldn't give it a go. I dated a couple of guys that I knew from the start would not last. Both relationships didn't make it a year but we had a good times until it ran its course. Given the chance I would have done it all again.

One thing I have observed though is the longer people are single the more difficult it is to maintain a relationship. People get comfortable with doing what they want to do, when they want to do it. Having someone move in or moving in with someone else becomes more traumatic because their partner doesn't want to sleep at a reasonable hour, doesn't know those sheet don't go on that bed and has the gall to drink all the milk without ever buying a gallon and, dammit, I'm too old to deal with this crap!

That said, there are so many people on this forum who seem completely datable to me I just refuse to believe people can't get together if that is what they want to do. If I was single and looking there are several guys on this forum I would get to know better.

DanielMark · « **Reply #29 on:** January 02, 2007, 06:45:44 am »

If my current boyfriend and I split, I am certain I will never date again. Just as I am certain I will never "live with" another human being. Ten years living with my ex partner was enough to teach me that I do better living alone.

Daniel

PS: My dislike of certain other Gay men has nothing to do with them being Gay. It is just there are people in this world you like and those you don’t. Selfish and shallow people I don’t like. Immature needy people I don’t like. These are just not the kinds of friends I have or want to have. Age, race, or sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

poet · « **Reply #30 on:** January 02, 2007, 08:37:27 am »

Right on, GSO. We all learn to be flexible through being in a relationship. It's true that the longer you are on your own, planning your own meals, scheduling your own bedtime (regardless of that show on at ___ ) doing what you feel like doing when you feel like doing it, the easier it is to perceive problems in that someone else might have other ideas about meals, bedtime, when to have sex, how to have sex, etc. Flexibility needs to be added to that list of traits involved in dating. Win

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