Stop PEP? GF having side effects.

[redtailboas]

I'm in Thailand and have exposed myself at least 10 different times to 5 or 6 different bar girls / street hookers in the last 5 weeks (unprotected vaginal).

I've now got a fever of 100.6 and it seems to be rising (it started at 99.8 this morning).  My throat is sore and the glands are swollen in my neck. I'm also having light headaches. No diahrea or rash.  I can't even remember the last time I had a sore throat.   It's been awhile.

I know I've put myself at quite a risk, and I'll be having an ECLIA Ab/Ag test within a couple weeks, and follow up with antibody testing . 

Just need to maybe hear some support, though I probably don't deserve it.  I've actually been scared before this and keep on doing it.  I'm drinking and smoking marijuana and taking valium to take care of the stress, and this in turn has me screwed up and out looking for sex again.

This I think is a true risk I've put myself at, and I'm afraid I've pushed it one too many times this time.

I'll be starting myself on Zoloft today.  It helps with depression, but mainly it kills sex drive like nothing else out there. 

Please, no judgement, I'm on the edge as it is.  I really needed to just do SOMETHING, so I started this thread to get some of my thoughts out... Thanks for any input

[Andy Velez]

Well, as you realize you have to get tested at 13 weeks past the most recent unprotected incident to get a conclusively reliable negative result. No matter what your symptoms are that is never a way to know anything reliably about your HIV status. There is nothing HIV specific about anything you have reported.

HIV is not an easy virus to transmit. It is significantly more difficult to accomplish from female to male. That works in your favor. All but the smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to the virus. So if you test negative at 6 weeks the likelihood is that you will continue to test negative.

You've analyzed your situation. You seem to recognize you have a serious pattern of mixing excessive drinking, drugs and unprotected intercourse. Along with taking your HIV tests, how about getting yourself some professional help or looking into programs which deal with addiction. Hopefully you will get through safely this time. You need to take some steps to avoid putting yourself in this position again. In my experience that kind of change of behavior is not something for you to attempt to do alone. Get some support with it, professional and otherwise.

Good luck with your test and keep us posted.   

[redtailboas]

I realize symptoms are a poor indicator, but my temperature went up to 102.2 before I had to take tylenol yesterday. 

My throat is sore when I swallow only on one side.  Some of the glands are quite tender and sore. 

No respiratory symptoms thus far. 




Thanks for the words of encouragement Andy.  I really think I've taken it one step too far this time.  I DID make a visa run to Burma the day before yesterday, so possibly I came in contact with something else to give me these symptoms, but I didn't really have any close contact with anyone at the border.

I'm pretty much losing it here. Fever, headaches, sore throat, swollen glands... 

[Ann]

Red,

Symptoms aren't poor indicators, they're NO indicators.

The ONLY way to know your status is through testing at the appropriate time.

Do not keep posting here about your symptoms - see your doctor instead.

Ann

[redtailboas]

PLEASE answer this question.  I heard you Anne, but PLEASE ANSWER, SOMEBODY.   

The headaches, fever 102.2, sore throat on the right side went away after 48 hours...............


and then I felt 100% better for 15 hours and the sore throat came so that I could barely swallow back on the left side of my throat, this time with milder symptoms and fever of 100.4.

PLEASE, wouldn't this be impossible or at least highly unlikely - for ARS to go away, and come back again 15 hours later?? 

[Ann]

red,

The ONLY way to know your hiv status is by testing. No one on this website will tell you anything different.

You have put yourself at risk and you need to test.

The earliest you should test is at six weeks, as the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by that time. A six week negative MUST be confirmed at the three month point.

Symptoms are not a way of gauging your hiv status.

Ann

[redtailboas]

Please then, have you ever heard of someone's ARS going away and coming back?  PLEASE. 

I am hyperventilating and am so paranoid I can't even leave my room.  I've become nocturnal and I have a hard time making myself even go to get something to eat once a day. I'm in Thailand and I'm afraid social services are a little short in Chiang Mai....If I was in America I'd be in the psych ward. Now I have a total of about 12-15 exposures over the last month with risky partners.  This is not a "i got a hand job with a condom on and wiped my butt with public toilet paper can i get HIV".  I can't even find one single heterosexual person who has posted this type of risk...  I know...I'M the moron here, not the people with low-no risk situations.

[Ann]

red,

Sorry, but symptoms mean nothing where hiv is concerned. You could be seroconverting because you have put yourself at risk, however, you could also have some run of the mill, ordinary illness. We can't diagnose you here.

You're just going to have to suck it up and test no sooner than six weeks. You put yourself at risk and there's nothing any of us can do about that.

Ann

[redtailboas]

about 5 weeks back I cheated on my gf with several sex workers in thailand.  3 weeks after the contact I developed a rash on my chest and stomach and penis.  no other noteable symptoms.  tested negative antibody and antigen at 3 weeks and another negative antibody at 4 weeks.

my gf and I had sex the day after the rash began. 

when realizing it wasnt bug bites, I went and got PEP from a dr.  I lied to the dr. and told him id had a risk and wanted PEP in order to keep my gf's name out of the hospital records.

he prescribed combivir and stocrin for PEP.

first week, she was fine. but then a week in, started to vomit anytime she ate.  she then started developing a rash on her elbows knees the last day and this morning she said it has started on her face and back. no blisters. sounds minor.  she said it looks like little bug bite tiny bumps.

no other symptoms besides diarrhea and malaise.

of course, what we're hoping is that this isnt ars, and that it's just side effects from the meds.

Q: assuming that, and in your opinions, does the rash and vomiting sound serious enough to stop the PEP?

 she still has an appetite.  no fever. about 11 days into the PEP.  PEP started 24 hours after our sex.

please, im looking for opinions here.  believe it or not, you likely know more than the thai dr's do.  the closest specialist is 4 hours away.

thanks much

[Ann]

Red,

I have removed the thread you started in the Treatments forum and merged it here with your original thread, which is the ONLY place in these forums you should be posting until you have been diagnosed hiv positive.

If you read the Welcome thread before posting like you're supposed to, you would have read the following posting rules:

With the exception of the “Am I Infected?” and “Off Topic” Forums, the AIDSmeds.com Forums are intended for people who have been diagnosed with HIV (or their loved ones/caregivers).  If you are questioning or unaware of your HIV status, please refrain from posting messages or questions in the Forums intended for HIV-positive people.

[

Please do not start a new thread every time you have another question or thought - regardless if you think your questions are related to each other or not. It helps us to help you when you keep all your thoughts or questions in one thread and it helps other readers to follow the discussion. Additional threads will be merged.

Are you out of your mind prescribing extremely strong meds for your girlfriend when you are not a licensed doctor? Of course she should stop taking those meds when she's not under the direct supervision of a qualified doctor.

Are you still having unprotected intercourse with Thai bar-girls? That's what brought you here four years ago and I would have thought you learned your lesson. If you DID learn your lesson and HAVE been using condoms, then you haven't had a risk and you're putting your gf through all this misery for no good reason.

If you have NOT been using condoms outside your relationship, then shame on you. Not for the sex, but for the UNPROTECTED sex. I don't give a monkey's how much sex you have or with whom, just stop putting yourself and others at risk by doing it without a condom.

We need some clarification here, but regardless of your risk, your gf should not be taking hiv meds without the supervision of a doctor. All sorts of things could be happening to her. We're not talking about taking aspirin, after all. We're talking about serious, heavy-duty meds.

Ann

PS - you need to know that some people can have a potentially FATAL reaction to stocrin called SJS. SHE NEEDS TO STOP TAKING THOSE MEDS!!!!

[redtailboas]

the sex was unprotected... no condom..sorry, forgot to add that.

qualified?. well it wouldn't be easy to easy to find here

i thought vomiting and rash are not to uncommon...

what about if she stops the stocrin?  and continues with the combivir?

[Ann]

Red,

I would not expect you to go on to test positive after that four week negative you have received.

Therefore, I would advise her to stop all the meds. But, if you're going to worry, just stop the stocrin. While a rash can be common with stocrin, it can also develop into SJS and if you're out in the boonies of Thailand, she doesn't need to end up with that. It can develop quickly and be fatal before you could get competent care for her.

Another thing you haven't seemed to consider while playing doctor is what if your gf is already poz and you two just don't know it? Hiv is much more difficult to transmit from a woman to a man so you can't know her status going by your own. She should have had a baseline hiv test before PEP was initiated.

If she is by chance already poz, you're risking giving her hiv med resistance issues through your actions of giving her PEP. You're really out of your depth here.

Wouldn't it have been easier to use condoms outside your relationship than to put your gf through this? I just don't get what goes on inside your head. You really need to wise up.

Do I sound angry? Well, I am. You've not only acted irresponsibly by having unprotected intercourse outside your relationship, but you've also acted irresponsibly by giving your gf meds that you are not qualified to give. I hope this doesn't end up in tragedy.

Ann

[redtailboas]

thanks for your fast reply.

im the only person shes ever been with..and shes simply the sweetest person.  you are right to be angry.

I will go into town tomorrow and check again... that will make 5 weeks. and 2 weeks since the rash started.

will stop the stocrin now.

[Ann]

red,

While you're in town, make sure you also get that rash checked out. You should also be tested for all the other MUCH more easily transmitted STIs if you haven't already. You're far more likely to end up with something like gonorrhea, syphilis or chlamydia from your unprotected activities than you are hiv. These can all be present with no obvious symptoms (in either sex), so the only way to know is to test.

I really don't expect your negative hiv results to change. If your symptoms had anything to do with hiv, your four week test would have been at least indeterminate, if not outright positive. The symptoms that some (not all) people experience are not due to the virus itself. They are due to the process the body goes through while producing antibodies.

Please, PLEASE learn this time and start using condoms outside your relationship. As I said earlier, I don't care how much sex you have outside your relationship, just protect yourself and your gf and use condoms for intercourse. If you've been doing this (unprotected sex) all along but not worrying because you didn't have symptoms before, then you need to wise up. Many people never have a single symptom of hiv seroconversion. Wrap it up and you won't have to worry.

I may be angry, but that doesn't mean I want you to end up poz. I don't, so take care and USE CONDOMS, ok?

Ann

PS - it's most likely one of the components of Combivir (AZT) that is causing your gf's nausea and vomiting, so that may well continue. The rash should clear up once she's been off the stocrin for a day or three. If you get another negative at five weeks (which I suspect you will), she should stop the Combivir as well. She doesn't need it if you test negative again.

[redtailboas]

the rash on my torso faded, but still visible spots.  rash on shaft faded but left a bunch of little bumps on the skin where the rash had been. checked negative for syph.

regardless ... thanks for your advice and long replies.  reading some of my old messages...i was a nervous wreck.  have let go of the pot 16 months now.  rarely drink now too. but when do, just plain leave safety in the dust.

of course i know you dont want me poz.  your anger is warranted... and probably I could use a good physical slap in the face as well.

the test is rapid. I wonder if they can show up as indeterminate?  well, my main concern is for her now... as shes done nothing to deserve this, but ive done plenty.

well...
if im poz, you'll surely see me back here.  if not, will post back with an update to finalize the thread.

[Ann]

Red,

Yes, the rapid tests can show indeterminate - it usually manifests in a fainter line than a firm positive produces.

And just for the record, NOBODY DESERVES hiv. It's not a punishment, it's just a virus. A preventable virus to be sure, but everyone makes mistakes.

You just need to stop beating yourself up and start LEARNING from your mistakes. If you carry on like this, sooner or later you're going to end up poz.

I do think you've dodged it this time, but you may not be so lucky next time - so MAKE SURE THERE IS NO NEXT TIME!

Condoms. Buy them. USE them!

Ann

[J3rrY]

Wow Red, can I ask how many of these bar girls/hookers from Thailand have you had unprotected sex with in your lifetime? I would have to say that you are extremely lucky, and I would also hope that you stop having unprotected sex with those from high risk countries because one day your luck will run out, and I would hate to see you end up positive. Look after yourself and your girlfriend, and I hope your test remains negative.

[Andy Velez]

J3, in the opening thread of this section it says that only those who are authorized may respond in other member threads. However well intentioned, you do not have that authorization and should only be writing in your own thread.

Please follow our rule in the future. Thank you for your cooperation.

[redtailboas]

today was a holiday in Thailand, so couldn't get tested.  instead spent 4+ hours coming out to visit my gf.

shocked somewhat to see this rash. on her forearms and covering almost all of her mid and lower back and stomach...and bumpy on her cheeks as well.  the rash is made up of many many little bumps..and is itchy.

sound like reaction to the meds?  been 40 hours since last stocrin.

[Ann]

Red,

Yep, it's the May Day Bank Holiday Monday here in the UK too.

Yes, the rash is likely to be a reaction to the meds - it is NOTHING like a seroconversion rash. The seroconversion rash is not raised or bumpy nor does it itch. If you didn't see it, you would have no idea it was there.

Your poor gf. And to think you've put her through all this when you most likely aren't even hiv positive. My heart goes out to her.

If her rash doesn't get better soon, you're going to have to get her to a REAL doctor and you're going to have to fess up to playing doctor with her and explain exactly what meds you've given her and why. If she develops a fever along with the rash, it might be very serious (NOT seroconversion!) so keep an eye on her. And stop giving her the Combivir.

Good luck.

Ann

[redtailboas]

5+ week came back negative.

  thanks for your information and help.  my gf has stopped the combivir as well.

 the rash has improved starting around the 3rd day after stopping the stocrin.

thanks again...

[Ann]

red,

You're welcome.

Please, please, PLEASE learn this time and use condoms outside your relationship! Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

And whatever you do, don't ever put your girlfriend on any medications (aside from over-the-counter ones perhaps) without having a doctor involved on her end. Dude, you could have killed her with that Stocrin. Seriously! Thank goodness you didn't.

For future reference - just in case you didn't learn this time - if you need PEP again, the usual combo in Thailand is Combivir with Kaletra, not Stocrin. The possibility of developing SJS, along with the other common side-effects is why Stocrin is not normally used for PEP. Kaletra has a better side-effect profile in the first month.

I'm glad to hear your gf is feeling better. You owe her one big-time and I hope you do something nice for her - if she's still speaking to you. I'm not so sure I would be, but that's just me.

I really do hope you learned from this idiotic episode.

Ann