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Author Topic: Very anxious  (Read 33948 times)

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Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2006, 09:39:02 pm »
I was reading thebody.com and it seems like the doctor their tells everyone to test at 3 months for any kind of oral situation.  Why would he say that if there were no risk?  I don't understand.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2006, 09:56:38 pm »
Please anyone?  Why do they say there's risk if there's no risk?  Is there any way I could be infected this way? Any way?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2006, 09:57:19 pm »
Then ask them why they say that. We can't read their minds.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2006, 09:57:06 am »
What are the incidences of false positives on the rapid hiv test if I decided to take one?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2006, 10:36:54 am »
NH,

Listen to me carefully, doll. It's time for you to seek the assistance of a mental health worker. We can't provide the sort of support you need. I think this goes a lot deeper than just an unfounded fear of HIV. There are complex issues regarding your sexuality tied up in this and you owe it yourself to get them addressed in a proper clinical setting.

And don't visit thebody -- when it comes to talking about HIV, thebody is at best second rate.

MtD

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2006, 11:55:34 am »
Well I do have OCD and it does center around things like that.  I took an orasure rapid test yesterday and it came out negative.  I know this doesn't cover my incident but it shows that I am in fact negative before it.  Is everyone sure I couldn't have caught it from what happened?  I just don't want to infect my girlfriend and child.  I'm really trying to let this go.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2006, 02:43:04 pm »
Anyone?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2006, 03:09:51 pm »
See about your OCD, because you haven't been put in an HIV concern.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2006, 03:10:08 pm »
nh,

This is not an OCD website. It is an hiv website. You are hiv negative - conclusively hiv negative.

If you're having trouble with your OCD, you need to go back to your therapist. We cannot help you with your OCD here - in fact this website is toxic to people who have OCD.

If you need the help of a time out to break your habit of coming here, that can be arranged. Please consider  yourself warned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2006, 05:59:35 pm »
I understand Ann.  Sorry for causing so much trouble.  I'm working on my OCD believe me.  It's a real struggle sometimes though.  Believe me if I didn't have to deal with my OCd I wouldn't because its horrid.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2006, 11:06:37 am »
Fortunately feelings aren't facts. So you can be worried and your mind can come up with all kinds of new bursts of anxiety.

None of that changes the fact that there is no basis whatsoever in HIV science for you to be concerned about HIV in relation to what you have reported.

Get on with your life and with a confident mind about your health in relation to safely conceiving a baby with your partner.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #61 on: August 25, 2006, 10:08:05 am »
Thank for all your replies.  I've been trying to stay off the computer and these sites.  Sometimes I wonder if it happens this way but just hasn't been documented.  I guess that's just carzy thinking on my part though.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2006, 10:33:43 am »
nh,

Don't try to stay off the internet and these sites, just do it. And book an appointment with your OCD therapist ASAP.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2006, 11:27:37 am »
Hi sorry for replying again.  I've been staying off the computer and doing ok until I had unprotected sex with my girlfreind again and the thoughts came rolling back of infecting her and my unborn child.  I truly have nothing to worry about?  I just see so much information on this and the theoretical issue with blood being present etc.  Would you guys bet me all that you own that I couldn't get infected this way?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2006, 12:11:50 pm »
You have real issues that need to looked into by a mental health professional. The sooner the better. We are not in the habit of giving out false information. It may be the time for you to take a break from this forum.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2006, 09:07:41 am »
Sorry for posting again.  I was just wondering if receiving oral is no risk in the absence of blood or even if there were blood in the mouth?  I read on some sites that there may be blood in the mouth even if you can't see it.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2006, 09:24:19 am »
nh,

There would have to be some much blood present in the mouth that you'd see it before there was even the faintest chance of being infected through getting a blowjob. And lets face it, what you got was hardly even a proper blowjob. There has never, EVER been one single documented case of someone being infected through getting a blowjob. It just doesn't happen and it's not going to happen to you.

I don't understand why you insist on surfing the internet to find things to scare yourself with. You had no risk and that is final. No ands, iffs or butts about it. Neither getting a blowjob nor mutual masturbation are hiv risks. Simple as that.

It seems to me the real issue here is your feelings about your experimentation with another man. If you need to work through these feelings to come to terms with them, this isn't the place to be doing that. You need to see a qualified counselor face-to-face, and we cannot provide that for you.

If you need a time out to encourage you to find the appropriate help for yourself, that can be arranged.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2006, 01:28:43 pm »
I'm sorry.  I start to feel good and then look at my pregnant girlfreind and start worrying again.  I could never live with myself if I infected her and my child.  That's where this enormous fear is coming from.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2006, 07:27:58 am »
Just a note to Ann and others.  I've contacted my OCD therapist and have an appointment with him today.  I'm really trying to keep everything in perspective and I'm telling myself that I won't be the first person infceted by receiving a bj or as you said Ann, what didn't even qualify as a bj.  I've gotten the same info on hotlines and other websites even if some people tended to waffle on the information and said low instead of no.  I'm doing my best.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2006, 11:39:55 am »
Well my OCD therapist knows nothing about OCD and now I don't know what to do.  I'm convinced that I'm going to infect my girlfreind and baby.  All over this stupid oral incident.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2006, 11:49:34 am »
nh,

Find another therapist.

You have not had an hiv risk. You cannot pass on that which you do not have yourself.

You are still under an time out warning.


Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2006, 09:45:45 am »
I found another therapist and will be seeing him this week.  I was doing ok until I had sex with my girlfriend again and began to freak out I infected her.  Are you absolutely sure I couldnt have been infected from this?  Why all the theoretical stuff on different sites.  What if I'm the first?

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2006, 09:48:53 am »
nh,

You won't be the first. You didn't have a risk and you cannot pass on what you do not have.

Good luck with the new therapist - hope this one is the right fit for you. If it isn't, keep trying. The right therapist will be out there for you so don't be discouraged if you have to shop around a little.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2006, 10:28:25 am »
Thanks Ann.  It's just that overwhelming fear of doing something awful to my girlfreind and baby that is fueling all of this. 

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2006, 08:09:24 am »
I was actually doing really good until I read this stuff about Lovelife.  Now I'm really upset again.  How could someone test at 9 weeks negative and then test postive considering his "risks".

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2006, 08:47:31 am »
I could ask you why you troll the other forums? Don't worry about what LoveLife has said, deal with your own problems.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2006, 08:48:54 am »
I understand what you are saying but I thought my problems were just OCD until I read another post on Am I infceted which made me look over there.  I wasn't trolling that group.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2006, 08:50:50 am »
Your problems are OCD and can not be dealt with on this forum.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2006, 08:57:26 am »
I'm a little anxious today and still worried about infecting my girlfreind and unborn child.  I've had unprotected sex with her since the incident and that's why I'm worried.  I would really like to get over this but I am finding it hard.  Any help would be appreciated.   Thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2006, 09:19:22 am »
nh,

How many times do you need to be told that the help you require is outside the scope of these forums? You need to get some face-to-face help and support for your anxieties and we cannot do that for you here.

I've warned you several times that you will be given a time out to help you on your way - and today's the day. You now have a four week time out. Do not create a new account to get around your time out - if you do, you will be permanently banned, no questions asked.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2006, 08:06:49 am »
Well things worked out well with my girlfreind and I.  Hep C and B turned out not to be an issue.  The only issue left is the HIV issue which you guys have told me really isn't one.  I'm trying to feel confident in my close to 6 week test but the thoughts do bother me from time to time.  I know that what I had really couldn't even be considered a bj considering how short it was.  I'd just really like to let this all go and move on with my life with a clear mind and be able to devote all my energies to my girlfreind and unborn child.

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2006, 07:03:08 am »
It's been awhile since I've been here and I have been working with my OCd therapist.  Like I said before I was tested at around 6 weeks and was negative (40 days to be exact).  I know you guys say that no testing is necessary but I've been terribly worried about her and the baby.  And with the craziness of those other tests a few weeks back kind of sent me over the edge.  Her initial Hep B test was found to be a false positive after repeat blood testing and my Hep C screening came out negative after further testing which means I had it at one time in the past and got rid of it or it was a false positive.  It really doesn't matter either way I don't have it.

The only thing left is this HIv worry.  I took a Home Access test 10 1/2 weeks after the incident and will be able to call for the results anytime now but I'm terribly scared.  I'm having a hard time picking up that phone.  I just want this all to be over with.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2006, 08:18:31 am »
nh,

Make the call and get your negative results. You didn't have a risk and you aren't infected with anything other than guilt.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2006, 08:57:46 am »
Has anyone here ever seen someone negative at 6 weekis turn positive after that?  This is my final hurdle and I want everything to turn out fine.  I've been through hell the past few months and I need to put this behind me.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2006, 09:26:48 am »
nh,

Nope, I've never seen a six week negative turn positive. I've never seen someone test positive from a handjob or getting a blowjob either.

You didn't have a risk of hiv infection, but you are risking another time out.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2006, 02:24:49 pm »
I'm confused when people say it's no risk when theoretically it could happen if there were blood present etc.  I know there have been no documented cases but who says every case of infection is going to be documented?  What if they've done more than one act etc.?  I know it's confusing and I know that the under 10 seconds I had couldn't even be considered a bj but I'm just wondering.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2006, 04:25:56 pm »
nh,

Getting a blowjob isn't a risk no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it. Just go do your test (not that you need one), collect your negative result and move on with your life.

If you cannot put this behind you, get yourself to a counselor. There's not a lot more we can do for you here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2006, 03:27:43 pm »
Well you were right.  The reslts were negative and they were taken at 74 days, 10 days short  of 12 weeks.  If this wasn't a no risk issue as you say, would this be considered pretty much conclusive?  Hypothetically ofcourse.  Just wondering if 10 days would make a difference if I actually had a risk.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2006, 03:56:51 pm »
nh,

No surprise there. As you had no risk you are conclusively negative.

Had you actually had a risk, I would NOT expect your result to change.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #89 on: November 28, 2006, 11:17:47 am »
Hi.  I've been gone for awhile and in therapy with mixed results.  As you know I tested negative at 74 days with Home Access.  I thought that would be the end of it but I find myself obsessing that it was 10 days short of 3 months and what if it changed.  I've resumed unprotected sex with my girlfreind and I can't stop worrying about her and my unborn child's safety.  What makes this difficult is all this talk about 3 months, 6 months, etc.  Everyone has a different answer.  It's been almost 4 months and I really want to let this go.  Is there any way I could possibly have it after all my tests?  I just hope I haven't infected my girlfreind and child.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2006, 11:25:11 am »
nh,

How on earth could you have infected your girlfriend? You were testing over a non-risk and you can rely on your negative result.

You're heading for a second time out. You never had a risk and you are hiv negative, period, end of story.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2006, 09:18:39 am »
My doctor told me that it could in fact be a risk and I should test out to 6 months to be absolutely sure.  I have a girlfreind and innocent baby to worry about and this is getting a bit too much to handle.  What do you think of his advice?

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #92 on: November 30, 2006, 11:33:46 am »
nh,

Your doctor is wrong. Getting a blowjob is not a risk for hiv infection. Not all doctors bother to keep up to date on hiv matters and it sounds like your doctor is one of them.

It's up to you what you do. We've given you the facts and now the ball is in your court. You can stress over this all you like, but it doesn't change facts. You had no risk. Not one person has ever become infected by getting thier dick sucked and you will not be the first - no matter how guilty you feel.

Maybe some counseling is in order to help you move past your guilty feelings.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline nh2006

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Some questions
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2007, 03:52:30 pm »
Some of you may remember me from last year.  I finally got through that worry and my wife and I had a beautiful baby.  Unfortunately my OCd reared its ugly head again over an incident I had 2 months back.  Again I was questioning myself with OCd about the whole am I gay issue.  I met a guy and we agreed to meet but no touching.  Well he apparently didn't listen and in the middle of us showing off he tried to touch me a few times.  He managed to touch me 2 or 3 times with his hand.  I didn't notice and blood and I didnt notice any cuts on my penis.  He also grabbed my hand and touched it to the tip of his penis before I pulled away and left.  There may have been a little precum on the tip but Im not sure.  I had no cuts on my fingers from what I could tell.  Ever sonce though I have been worried about whether or not I had microscopic cuts on my finger or penis and whether or not any of his fluids got into them.  Like I said, I didn't see any cuts and I did check thoroughly but I was jerking off earlier and my penis may have been irritated.  It definately wasnt stinging or bleeding to the touch either.  I'm back to the old infecting my wife and baby scenario though because shes still breastfeeding.  Oh and I got a negative test at 8 weeks after this incident.  Do I have anything to worry over?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2007, 05:12:01 pm »
Before we even get to your question, I've merged your latest thread with your previous ones. Please keep all of your entries in this same thread. That's our rule here.

Now, as to your question, no you were absolutely not at risk for HIV transmission in this latest incident. Mutual masturbation and any variations of it which your mind can come up with do not present a risk. You were around here long enough to know that and I suspect your rational mind really does know it from what you wrote this time.

Once again this is all about feelings and not facts. There is no reason for any concern about HIV nor any need for testing.

You did a little dicking around with another guy. And now you're all anxious and upset about it. THat's the whole deal and it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with HIV.

Get on with your life.
Andy Velez

Offline nh2006

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Paranoia and Hiv testing
« Reply #95 on: June 05, 2008, 02:32:58 pm »
Being in this situation myself I understand where alot of people are coming from when the go to these sites to post questions.  You'll here people say that an antibody test is accurate and definitive at 3 months.  Then you'll here from someone else that it isn't aqccurate till 6 months,  And then there are the people (a very rare minority) who have a delayed antibody response and there are some who never produce an antibody response.  Than there is the fact that no test is 100% accurate and the most you'll get is 99.9%.  This doesn't even bring the fact of rare Hiv starins or Hiv 2 into the picture.  What am I trying to get at?  All this conflicting information creates the perfect storm for worriers (myself included).

I've had 15 antibody tests out to 7 1/2 months after the incident as well as 2 DNA Pcr tests.  Do I still worry about Hiv?  Yes I do.  I'm curious how the experts on this site handle all the conflicting information.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2008, 02:47:33 pm »
Actually you don't seem to "understand" at all. For starters we've asked you before not to start any new threads and we've merged your previous ones. I've done the same now with your latest.

You've been coming around here for long enough to have gotten the basics down by now both about risk or lack of same and about testing. Now you pop in to stir the worry pot with a bunch of bits and pieces, all to no good purpose.

You're HIV negative. Period. End of story. Consider yourself warned. If you come back with more of this same troublemaking you're either going to get timed out or banned.

Get yourself some professional help to deal with your HIV worries. We can't provide that here and we're not going to indulge you in churning up a lot of unnecessary worrying for others.
Andy Velez

Offline nh2006

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2008, 02:53:08 pm »
Sorry I wasn't trying to churn up anything.  Just trying to explain how some people who worry about this feel and why they feel that way.  And honestly this post you tagged my recent post to I think I made over a year ago.  I forgot about that post and I'm sorry if I offended the moderators.  Let's just try to all be realistis though ok.  Take care.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #98 on: June 05, 2008, 03:25:20 pm »
We are very much aware of how worriers feel about their HIV concerns.

As for being "realistic," our responses are solidly grounded in HIV science along with an understanding of emotional issues which often crop up here.

You need to get on with your life. As far as I am concerned your latest entry is only likely to stir more needless anxiety. So much for your understanding and being "realistic." Getting on with your own life is what I suggest rather than as some slef- authorized arbiter of how to address the needs of worriers.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:31:02 pm by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Very anxious
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2008, 04:38:50 pm »
nh,

I'm curious how the experts on this site handle all the conflicting information.

What conflicting information? There isn't any when you know to only concern yourself with up-to-date information.

As Andy mentioned, you will not be allowed to use this forum to go on and on about your various test results etc. You are hiv negative and that's that. If you cannot accept your negative hiv status, then perhaps it's time you sought counseling to get to the bottom of your anxiety. We cannot help you with that here.

Make sure you read the posting guidelines found in the Welcome Thread like you're been repeatedly asked to. Please consider yourself warned.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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