I really am so stupid

[ImSoStupid]

So, I'm the receptive partner in a gay relationship.  We've known each other for about 7-8 months, and have been 'dating' (more like going out, coming home, watching tv and having safe sex) for about a month and a few weeks or so.  Well, last night he was over and we discussed who we had slept with and when our last test was and how it went, then went on to have sex.  It got kinda rough, and when it was all finished he pulled out and swore.  I looked and the condom had completely ripped and emptied into me when he pulled out.  I freaked out and he assured me he was negative, and he cares about me, and wouldn't lie about it, and that since his last test he's only slept with 2 guys, me being one of them, and every time was protected.  There wasn't really anything I could do about it then, so this morning when he left for work I told him that I wanted to talk to him later, and he said he was going to call me.  Basically, I'm going to tell him that I want him to go to the ER with me tonight (or at the latest tomorrow morning) to get a rapid HIV test, and if either of us turns up positive for the other to go on PEP.  We know each other's pasts and for the past 6 weeks we've only slept with each other and before that we had been with our boyfriends and only slept with them for the 2-3 months before that...so the tests should be pretty accurate if every encounter since december has been protected and from only each other and one other person. 

Anyway, I know what I have to do, my phone died so I had to recharge it to get his number, he wasn't at his work when I stopped by.

[Andy Velez]

You have a basic misunderstanding about what a Rapid HIV test can do. Yes, it can give you an answer more quickly than an ELISA. But it requires the same waiting time as any standard HIV test to get an accurate result.

If PEP is going to be started it has to be at not more than 48-72 hours after a possible exposure. The sooner the better to maximize its effectiveness. When someone does PEP, then it's necessary to wait 13 weeks from the 28 days of PEP to get a final, reliable negative result.

Right now you're clearly very anxious, which is understandable. I suggest you go to your doctor or a hospital, explain the circumstances and get a medical opinion about whether to go on PEP or not. Your bf as the insertive partner would be at less risk for transmission, but less risk is not the same as no risk. If he wants to go as well that's cool. But whether he does or not you should handle your own health matters.

I know you are reporting to the best of your ability. Assuming everything you have said is accurate then I expect you will come out of this ok.

Also, just do some good deep and slow breathing when you're tensing up. It really helps with calming down. Doing that will be helpful to you.

Keep us posted.

Cheers,

[ImSoStupid]

I know...I'm going tomorrow morning to the ER to start PEP.  Before I was on PEP for a needle stick and was put on Truvada for a month, it was horrible.  I had the worst diarrhea and vomiting spells, I couldn't eat for the entire month.  Are there any other medications they could put me on that would have less severe side effects?  I know for a fact that there was a possible exposure, and the thing I was thinking about the test was that if he had a test 6 months ago, and it was negative, and he's only been with me and the other guy in the past 6 months, if he comes up negative this time on a test (wicking or elisa) chances are he really is negative...this is assuming he's telling the truth about who he's been with and about always being safe.  I know I still should do the PEP deep down, I'm just dreading it because of the side effects.  Chances are he's negative, and chances are even if he wasn't I wouldn't contract anything if I go on PEP, but I suppose I can just hope for the best, and know that I have statistics on my side.

[RapidRod]

ImSoStupid, go read the lesson section. PEP is not 100% it's close to 85%. Statistics have never given anyone their results. 

[ImSoStupid]

I'm fully aware of the usefulness of statistics--hence the part where I wrote "chances are."

[ImSoStupid]

The ER put me on combivir 1 tab bid, and kaletra 2 tab bid.  They don't want me to stay on it for the full month, but want the source tested ASAP, which is pretty much the needle stick protocol.  He's being kind of stupid about it though, and it's irritating--he keeps arguing with me about testing, and saying that he's never heard of PEP or why testing now is a good idea. 

[Bucko]

Trust issues in a new relationship come up all the time. It's natural that you want him to test as you are currently taking PEP and could choose to discontinue it should he test negative.

But your reaction to this bodes poorly for the future of your relationship. If he is unwilling to get tested and/or feels you are accusing him of intentional falsehood don't be surprised if he steps back.

Brent
(Who understands trust is the first piece of a successful relationship)

[ImSoStupid]

Yeah...I'm still on it, and he still hasn't gotten tested.  I was going to get tested even if I didn't go on PEP just so he'd know I didn't give him anything, and I did at the first opportunity.  I guess that's the difference between him and me...he said he was just happy that I was so worried about it so that he figured that if I was like that with someone I was dating that I'd be more paranoid with a random person...to which I replied, that he doesn't know, and who knows if a condom broke before or if I swallowed with someone, or if my ex gave me something (even though we always used condoms) or if I'm lying or whatever.  But since he knows it's important to me and hasn't gotten tested still, I think it's over anyway.

Anyway, I'm on the Kaletra and Combivir, and I'm sleeping like 12 hours/day...is that normal?  I go to bed around 1, get up at 8ish, take some pills, watch some TV, nap on the couch from noon to 5 or so, then in bed by midnight/1 AM.  I'm always tired.  I'm used to operating on 5-7 hours/night, so this is kinda weird to me.  I haven't vomited yet, so that's good.  I've felt like it many times though 

[Ann]

I'm,

The side effects you are experiencing from your combo are common. Have a look through the Drugs section of this website for more information on the meds you are taking. Also have a look at the Dealing with Side Effects
portion of the Lessons.

Hang in there!

Ann

[ImSoStupid]

The bad side effects are starting finally...my doctor and I both thought they would  .  For the past few days I'm been throwing up in the mornings, and for the past 12 or so hours I've been having really bad cramping and watery stool.  Is there anything I can do to make it less severe?  I don't have a fever or anything, so that's good though.

[Andy Velez]

Have you read the DEALING WITH SIDE EFFECTS which Ann mentions in her previous response?

Additionally I suggest you call your doctor. Your symptoms are not unusual although that maybe small comfort when you are going through them.

Cheers,

[ImSoStupid]

Thanks...I think I'm blind or something, I didn't even notice the 2nd link there.  I know that this is normal, but I just feel run down.  I glad that I'm (hopefully) half way done taking the meds. 

[Andy Velez]

Yes, well your anxiety is probably running along there at a steady hum which is why you may have missed that link.

Stay as productively busy as you can during your waiting time and the time will pass more quickly than you may imagine possible right now.

Given the specifics you have reported of your situation I think the odds are in your favor that when you get around to testing the result will be a happy negative.

[ImSoStupid]

Tonight was the last night of gay pride weekend and I met this guy and wound up back at his place (after asking his serostatus, which he said was negative), and we were fooling around and I was only the insertive oral partner which was my plan, then he asked me to rub myself on him, which I did...actually he kinda did since he was on top of me, then he pushed himself onto me.  Since I've had prior PEP experience I don't ever want to do it again, so I shoved him off of me and asked he'd do if I was positive.  He said he didn't care because he was already positive, and we got into a fight and he said we were getting along and if he was truthful I wouldn't go home with him...but now I'm scared crapless.  it was only a few seconds if that, as in he just sat on it and I got him off of me, then about 2 minutes later I was washed and on my way home.  I don't know what to do...well I do, but am afraid of doing it.  I know I need to go on PEP again, but I just got off of it because of a broken condom with a guy that I've since stopped dating.  I'm trying to reason with myself that I can live with a <.065% risk, but I really can't.  I'd rather be sick for a month again than for the rest of my life.  I can't believe that I'm so stupid that I'd go home with someone I don't know and then have this happen.  I'm sure I've done much riskier things in the past considering I really don't like being the insertive partner, but this is just awful.  Is there anything wrong medically, besides the side effects, of going on PEP in such rapid succession?  Why am I so stupid?  Any suggestions as to what I should do (besides stopping being a big slut.)  I know a confirmed exposure calls for PEP but I just don't want to go through a month of that again.  But I guess it's better than a chronic disease.  I just feel stupid going to my doctor tomorrow and saying "guess what...it happened again."  I guess she knows that I'm kind of promiscuous and gay, but I didn't think this would happen by planning on just getting oral. 

But is there anything wrong with going on PEP twice over the course of 3 months?  I know my behavior needs to change, and most people wouldn't even think anything about this incident since it's so low risk, but I'm not most people and I'm freaking out over it.  I just started feeling better from the last round of PEP, and now I guess I'll be back on it .  It's not bad luck, it's bad choices.    I just feel stupid because I thought I was being safe and now this happened.  Like last time I had actual full on intercourse wehn the condom broke...thought I was being safe then too.  Why am I so dumb???

[RapidRod]

That's something you are going to have to work out for yourself. I doubt that your doctor will put you on PEP again. You'll have to talk with her and find out. You do understand that PEP is only 85% effective?

[Ann]

Stupid,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

It's totally your call, in tandem with your doctor, whether or not you go back on PEP - and as you yourself mention, it's not totally necessary for this brief incident. You do need to act quickly if you are going to take it, because it needs to be started no more than 72 hours afterwards.

There is no reason, medical or otherwise, why you should not be able to take PEP again. It goes without saying, however, that PEP is not something to be used more than absolutely necessary.

I hope you have learned a valuable lesson - there is no point in asking a person their serostatus. Not only do some people lie, but many others don't actually know their true status to begin with. You need to use condoms until you have tested together in the context of a securely monogamous relationship.

You will also need to be very clear about the fact that you will not allow penetration to take place unless a condom is worn.

Regardless of PEP, I expect you to come out of this situation ok. Hang in there.

Ann

[ImSoStupid]

I do understand that but I think that .065% is a lot worse than .00975%.  I'll ask what she thinks.  I'm just scared and can't sleep.  I just feel stupid that I took this guy's word, and wasn't planning on doing anything remotely risky, then this happened.  Frottage is one thing, unprotected anal intercourse is a completely different thing.  I don't know why this guy lied to me, and who cares if I didn't go home with him why would you lie about something like that then do that to someone?  I can kind of understand if he lied then didn't do something harmful and stupid, but this is awful.  Hopefully I come out of this fine and learn from it to not go home with random people.  I certainly hope my doctor puts me on PEP again, even though i know the risk is nearly non-existent.  I just wonder about myself that if the guy didn't say he was positive would I be as worried.  I know this is the wrong forum to discuss that in, but it still makes me wonder.  I'm certain that I've had riskier situations than this (guys have pulled their condoms off and didn't tell me until a few minutes later and I've swallowed a few times before) and the HIV counselor told me not to worry about it, but since the guy lied then said he was positive I'm more freaked out.  I'm just worried, and I kind of do want to go on another regiment of PEP the more I think about it...a low risk is definitely not a non-risk, and even if PEP isn't 100% it's a lot better than 0% with nothing.


Thanks Ann, I don't know why, but your posts always seem to make me feel better.  I'm going to talk to my doctor tomorrow and see what she thinks.  I have an appointment this week, but I want to get her input before that time and start as soon as possible if she thinks it to be prudent.  I know that condoms should be used and always do use them when having intercourse.  I just thought this guy wanted frottage and that's what I was going for, but I was laying down and he was on top of me...um...frottaging until he pushed it in.  It was so brief, but now so scary.  I know from experience the importance of condoms and that no one really know if they're negative unless they've just been tested and in a monogamous (verified) relationship or abstinent for the past 6 or so months...but I wasn't thinking this was going to become this, and the last time the condom must have had air in it or something because it literally exploded, into multiple pieces.  I know if I go back on PEP I'll be sick for the month, but I'm wondering if it'll give me the peace of mind to let me be productive during that time rather than fixating on this exposure and hating myself for it.  I still can't get over the fact that I probably wouldn't be as upset if I didn't know the guy's serostatus...I always thought I treated everyone the same when it comes to condoms, but when I think about how I probably wouldn't be so mad if the guy didn't know his status it disappoints me in myself.  I'm pretty sure (99.35% sure) I'll be negative, and the brief nature of the exposure adds to that, but I think if I take the PEP I'll still feel better about the situation.  And next time I get in a situation like this (which I hope is never) I'll be sure the person knows there's to be no penetration.

[Ann]

Hopefully I come out of this fine and learn from it to not go home with random people.

Stupid,

It's not so much the going home with random people, it's more about making it plain to them that you are hiv negative and intend on staying that way through the use of condoms. It's about not relying on someone's word, but instead relying on condoms.

I'm a little confused though -

he was on top of me, then he pushed himself onto me.

This sounds like he penetrated you.

it was only a few seconds if that, as in he just sat on it and I got him off of me,

But this sounds like YOU penetrated HIM.

If this is the case and it was your penis inside of him and not the other way around, I'd say that PEP is definitely NOT warranted for this brief insertion. The insertive partner is at less risk - and especially during such a brief incident. I would absolutely NOT recommend PEP for you if you were the insertive partner.

I doubt very much whether your doctor would prescribe PEP under these circumstances. You don't need it.

I fully expect you to come out of this hiv negative, PEP or no PEP.

Ann

[Ann]

Oh, and just to clarify something...

If you'd continued on, being the insertive partner, and had a full session of unprotected intercourse, then PEP may have been warranted. Even then I would fully expect you to come out of this ok.

But for such a brief incident? No PEP is needed.

Ann

[ImSoStupid]

thank you.  I was the insertive partner...unintentionally.  He was pretty much straddling me and rubbing me on him (which is safe...correct) then sat on it and pushed it in him.  Sorry this is so graphic.  Oh, and next time I will be quite intent on letting the person know whether or not they say they're negative that I want to stay that way so if they plan on any penetration  that we have to use a condom.

[Ann]

Stupid,

Yes, the rubbing (aka frottage) is not a risk for infection.

And once again, you do not need PEP over this incident. As the insertive partner in such a brief incident, it's highly unlikely that you would have become infected. You're more likely to walk outside your door today and find a winning lottery ticket worth millions lying in the gutter. Seriously!

Please do make sure that you always use condoms from here on out - and also make sure that you have regular, routine sexual health care check ups.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Ann

[RapidRod]

He Lied? No you lied to yourself believing him. I take it you haven't been gay long.

[Andy Velez]

I just want to insert (no pun intended) a thought here. YOU are the guy who's responsible for your health. It's great when you have a responsible partner too but ultimately the bottom line is YOU are the one who has to consistently act in ways that protect your health.

I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Whether through duplicity, indifference or not being well informed, people infect other people. So it's yourself you must depend upon to stay awake to risky business.

I say this because I would like you to not become another OOOPS statistic who ends up infected, which I have seen happen again and again through the years.

Cheers,

[ImSoStupid]

I know I'm responsible for my own health, I just feel stupid and worried.  I know that drinking and sex go together just about as well as drinking and driving, and hopefully this will all turn out alright (I'm pretty sure it will) and get me to stop going out and putting myself in these situations. 

[Andy Velez]

For what it's worth, I do expect you to come out of this ok.

During your waiting period I recommend staying productively busy with other things. You might be amazed at how it helps the time to pass.

Keep us posted.

Cheers,