Oral sex. Spanish studies quoted. Accuracy of answers.

[madrid_guy]

Hi all,

I don't know if it is the proper forum to post so feel free to move it where you think it may accurately posted.

I thank you for your work that helps so many people from different countries.

Regarding oral sex I agree with most of the advice given. But I just want to suggest a "methodological" improvement.

Everytime some one states that oral sex is no risk (Rapid Rod for instance) Jorge del Romero Studies are quoted.  I obviously respect a non risk stance on oral sex. I will not discuss it. Specially when someone thinks there is not debate... there is not room for discussion with him.

But if someone thinks there is not risk Jorge del Romero studies must no be quoted. The reasons are:

1st In my humble opinion his studies do not say NO RISK anywhere in their text.
2nd Those studies were intended primarily to demonstrate the effectiveness of condoms.
3rd People on the studies were on medication and almost all were undetectable.

Jorge del Romero is not only one of the 10 best researches in this field in Spain but he is regarded as a one of the best in Europe.

Del Romero is not only an excellent researcher. He is an exceptional doctor and as far as I know he is the only doctor who has a website set by a patient (as a homage, a tribute paid by this patient for his heart compassion, kindness...).

And del Romero (and this is the rationale for this post) believes indeed that oral sex is a risk.  You may not believe me but you may read this interview (Andy Velez may translate to you if you don't trust mine) in which del Romero says that one of the reasons why transmissions do not stop is because people think that oral sex is no risk.

So if someone says that oral sex is unlikely way he may quote his studies. If someone states that there is no risk that person should not quote del Romero or "the Spanish study" or "the  couples studies" etc.

Interview:

http://www.elmundo.es/suplementos/salud/2008/740/1200697203.html   (go to the end of the report).

«A veces creen que practicando sexo oral están a salvo o que si no eyaculan no pasará nada; pero no es cierto y todo eso hay que decirlo detalladamente», pone como ejemplo Jorge del Romero.

Translation "some people think that oral sex is safe or if they do not ejaculate nothing will happen, but this is not true and I must state it categorically" says Jorge del Romero as an example.

Homage to del Romero:

http://ffbright.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/doctor-jorge-del-romero/

Thanks

[Andy Velez]

The only non-risk sexually is sex with your own hand. Otherwise there is always theoretically some risk when it involves interaction with a second person.

Reports of infection having occured through giving oral never seem to hold up under careful scrutiny. Among other reasons is someone's faulty memory due to drinking and drugs. Also frequently someone does not want to accurately report their sexual activities. Etc.

But the overwhelming evidence is that giving oral is not a risk. Can transmission happen through giving oral? Yes, it's possible but the risk is remote and extremely unlikely except in situations that may involve fresh, bleeding wounds in the mouth and/or extremely poor oral care.

As for risk from receiving oral which is one of the most common of sexual activities, there's never been a confirmed case of transmission in that manner.

Howver, I don't want to get into a debate here about this issue. The position you have stated is not an uncommon one. Personally I always suggest that one should not do anything sexually which doesn't feel comfortable about.

[madrid_guy]

Thanks for your reply.

I agree with you at all.

My post was to clarify the reason why the so called "spanish studies" or "serodiscordant couples studies researches" etc run by Del Romero "et al" should not be quoted as an evidence of "No risk".

[RapidRod]

No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANSFIELD

"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD

"I am sure you can find lots of people who believe that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA

"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." Dr.Hook

"The observation on thousands and thousands of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK

HIV is not transmitted by oral sex. Saliva contains over a dozen different enzymes and proteins that inhibit HIV transmission.

[madrid_guy]

Regarding    Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update

J Campo, MA Perea, J Cano, A Bascones belong to School of Dentistry (Department of Buccofacial Medicine and Surgery)

J del Romero and V Hernando are the hiv specialists.

J del Romero is Jorge del Romero, which opinion regarding oral sex is quoted above.

[Matty the Damned]

Regarding    Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update

J Campo, MA Perea, J Cano, A Bascones belong to School of Dentistry (Department of Buccofacial Medicine and Surgery)

J del Romero and V Hernando are the hiv specialists.

J del Romero is Jorge del Romero, which opinion regarding oral sex is quoted above.

Am I Infected? is not a place for you to air your knowledge. Rather it where the confused seek advice regarding general questions of HIV transmission and testing.

You should find somewhere else to bandy references.

MtD

[Ann]

Madrid,

I'm not sure what you problem is. If you are questioning your hiv status, then go test. If oral sex is the only thing you're worried about, don't be surprised by a negative result.

Here's what you need to know in order to remain hiv negative:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

[madrid_guy]

Hi,

I should have posted it in Off Topic Forum or as an opinion/view in Research Forum.
Regards

[Ann]

Madrid,

Unless you are hiv positive, you may not post in the Research forum and the Off Topic forum is exactly what it says - off topic. Off the topic of hiv/aids.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

With the exception of the “Am I Infected?” and “Off Topic” Forums, the AIDSmeds.com Forums are intended for people who have been diagnosed with HIV (or their loved ones/caregivers).  If you are questioning or unaware of your HIV status, please refrain from posting messages or questions in the Forums intended for HIV-positive people.

If you're only here to tell us how to do our jobs, then you're wasting your time.

Ann

[madrid_guy]

As english is not my mother language I try to do my best in order to make myself understood. And I obviously failed. I apologize. I did not mean to say to you how to proceed.

I just wanted to share a view regarding the famous "spanish studies" / "studies on serodiscordant couples" / "the 10 years study on couples" / "the 19 thousand oral sex acts studies" or whatever they might be called run by del Romero.