POZ Community Forums
Main Forums => Living With HIV => Topic started by: Queen Tokelove on July 16, 2007, 08:02:19 pm
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I've said it once, I've said it a million times, the Queen has a lot to learn when it comes to HIV. Maybe someone here can enlighten me on some things...Today I decided to call the clinic nurse and get the results to my vl since they were not available the day of my appointment.....cd4 is 340 an increase from 261 but my viral load was 13,000 and some change, now that has jumped up to 24,700. I am baffled because I was thinking cd4 goes up viral load goes down but the nurse told me that after looking through results from the past that my cd4 and viral load had both dropped back in March... So I am like wtf? How can this be? Anyone have any insight?
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Queen, I always thought that the CD4s were supposed to go up and viral load down, also. My last test showed that my Ts were 500something and my viral load is 98,000. It must be a thing lately, to have problems with numbers, because I've talked to a few other poz people who are having problems. Maybe it's something in the air, who knows.
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The deal is that you had a nice increase of your CD4 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and that your viral load hasn't changed. Remember that the viral load is a logarithm, so a 13000 viral load is log 4.11, a 24700 viral load is log 4.39. Anything less than a 1, 1.5 change is not significant. My previous viral load was 27000, now 99000, so it looks scary but the log difference is 4.44 to 4.99, so it's not a big change.
I wouldn't worry about those VL numbers for now, but I would celebrate your CD4 jump!!!
Milker.
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Milker,
Everytime I see your name I think of that sour skittles commercial with the man eating sour skittles and hooked up to a milking machine but the milk is coming out sour cause of him eating the skittles. Just had to mention that.. ;D
Anyhoo.....I thought the greater the vl the more of the virus in your body? Am I wrong in thinking that? Believe me I am happy about the increase in the cd4.
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Oh Queen
Yes, you are right, the greater the viral load the more HIV in the body. Or to be strict, the blood. Only 2% of HIV is your blood.
Milkie is right, viral load tests have a margin of error of 3, so the range of viral load can be between 3 x more and 3 x less than the result.
In your case 13,000 means "somewhere between 4,500 and 29,000" and 24,700 means "somewhere between 8,300 and 75,000"
See, it is impossible to compare just 2 viral loads, you need to look at the trend.
13,000 followed by 24,700 suggests a stable infection. Another +++ viral load would to my mind show an increasing amount of virus
In logs, 13,000 is 4.1 and 24,700 is 4.4, less than half a log different, so not an important one
- matt
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I have heard those same sentiments from my doctor about my viral load as well. My CD4 cells seem to be declining, while my viral load remains the same. She has mentioned in both of my last two appointments that viral load is no longer used as a method of predicting the course of the infection.
The bit about logs does help to clear some of it up though. I personally wouldn't worry because your immune system seems to be gaining and that's a good indicator of health.
~ronnie
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I have heard those same sentiments from my doctor about my viral load as well. My CD4 cells seem to be declining, while my viral load remains the same. She has mentioned in both of my last two appointments that viral load is no longer used as a method of predicting the course of the infection.
The viral load is actually useful in predicting the rapidity of decline of CD4 counts over time, but you're talking about huge differences in numbers here (in reference to the logarithmic scale). That is, someone with viral loads >100,000 consistently would be expected to have a relatively faster decline in CD4 counts over time compared to someone whose VL is only hovering at say 10,000 consistently. The higher viral loads are suggestive of the immune system's inability to contain the virus by itself.
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Queen I have to second that on Milker, that is funny. I thought I was the only one.. D
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Newt~~~ It's great to hear from you on this, I was hoping you would reply. Only 2% of hiv is in my blood..I wish there was none, of course, but 2% doesn't sound that bad. I actually had all my labs for the past couple of years at one point but got frustrated and threw them away when I couldn't understand what I was seeing. What do you mean by a stable infection? It's not dormant but it's not kicking up a storm either, eh. Do you any hiv for dummies, laying around? ;D
Florida~~~ Glad to see I am not the only one with a wicked/warped/demented sense of humor.. :D
I will go with what you all are saying. To be infected going on 10 yrs and no med, I still say I must have a pretty mild strain or I smoke so much weed that my hiv is just as high as I am... ;D
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lol Queen!! And here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG0zDltjL_o
Stable infection is that the virus keeps multiplying at a rate that your immune system can "control". If you see someone that has the same VL but the CD4s are decreasing, then the immune system is losing grounds. In your case the CD4s have increased, yet the VL is more or less the same, so that's a good sign. Like newt and gerry said, if the trend of the VL is going up to large numbers, even if the CD4s look "good", then the virus is multiplying too fast and the immune system is not strong enough to contain it.
In my case, the next numbers will tell me if the VL is going out of whack (I hope not >:(), but the last 3 tests have shown it going up and down and up and down, so i have no clue as what to expect.
Sour Milker.
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Actually the highest my vl has ever been was 85,000 and that was around the begining of the year. My next appointment is on Sept 5.
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Hey Akasha,
Ten years and no meds sounds good to me. I went 11 before jumping on the "Cocktail Cruise."
The amount of virus in your blood is small compared to the other places it hides out, like the brain, nervous system, lymphatic system and especially the gut.
Now, sweetie, how's the sugar doing? You do worry me, you know. Especially with all the "munchies" you must deal with every day! ;) ;D
BIG HUGS,
Mark
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Sorry to veer off topic, but I think 10 years and no meds, that's really great.
It's good to be the Queen!
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She has a secret.. but I will try to find out in September..
Milker.
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Secrets? Nah, I wish I did. I have no life, so I can't have any.. ;D...All i have been doing is smoking weed, I swear. Maybe my mother blessed me with good genes, oh hell I don't know...As far as my sugar goes, it has gone down a bit, it was 192 but last draw it was down to 136..I have been trying to change what I munch on..I have never really be a sweets fanatic. When I have the munchies I try to eat a salad, avacados, I love them or some watermelon. I know there is no such thing as healthy sugars when it comes to diabetes but I just try to stay away from candy. I wish I could give up pepsi but I just can't. I have tried drinking Vitamin Water which I must admit is very tasty but I can't find them in 6 packs anywhere. Do they come that way or do they pimp you by making you by single bottles? I dunno but I must thank Benj because he is the one who made me aware of them.