Tonight's VP Debate

[Basquo]

I think I heard Palin call the other guy "O-Biden"

Anyone else hear that?

Can we change the topic and talk about something else?

[Basquo]

Quote: "We need more flexibility in 'No Child Left Behind'."

[weasel]

if this would have been a test in  school .

  Palin would get a "F" .

  If the question is  " what color is the sky ? "

  The answer should NOT be " I like Apple juice "

 She really was way too avasive in the answers ! an air head ? i think so !

  vote OBAMA

                                                                      karl

[Dennis]

I did hear that as well. 

I had a few friends over to watch the debate. They actually played a drinking game during.  Everytime Palin said something stupid they would have a drink.  Needless to say they're both passed out in my extra bedroom at the moment!

I think I heard Palin call the other guy "O-Biden"

Anyone else hear that?

Can we change the topic and talk about something else?

[lucas clay]

I did hear that as well. 

I had a few friends over to watch the debate. They actually played a drinking game during.  Everytime Palin said something stupid they would have a drink.  Needless to say they're both passed out in my extra bedroom at the moment!

 

[komnaes]

2016, President Palin.. I said it...

Though I hope I live long enough to see it, I really don't wanna see it. But I think it will happen.

[emeraldize]

Yes, she said " O'Biden" and I thought gee, Biden's a nice guy for not giggling at her nor correcting her. Then I thought, hmm, maybe he didn't hear her. Respectin' the gal who cutely drops her g's from verbs, I think he was just bidin' his time.

Hey, she was winkin' at the audience, and her Dad. That's a new move at the podium. Can you imagine any male candidate doin' that? She marched boldly and even amplified every trait that's been criticized. Her accent was more emphatic, she wore a shiny black, butt-huggin', stylish dress; her make up was perfect, posture great, affect---engaged and engaging. And, she was a smilin', lip-sticked Pit Bull, ready to be splendidly redundant and steering the debate bus off the road whenever she couldn't come up with a direct answer.

I like Geraldine Ferraro's comment in the post-debate interview where she noted had Palin brought up the topic of energy one more time she thought she'd have a heart attack.

Although her substance wasn't impressive, her style was powerful. For me, overly powerful, but I concede she is not my choice. However,for those who need to envision someone who speaks plainly and is perceived as closer to them and representin' them in teh White House, she fits.

She may be a quick study, but she is not a student of much of what I think we need in the months and years to come. But, as a figurehead, she would certainly bring change to DC.

Goin' retro to the post CBS interview thread I wrote

I'm betting the Republican ticket is going to change before we get to the polls.

Had any real money backed up my bet, it's obvious I would have lost it. She's wedded.

O'Bama/O'Biden  O'MyGoodness Get Out There 'n Vote

[J.R.E.]

The St. Petersburg times was not very kind to Palin in todays paper editorial :

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editorials/article837024.ece

Debate reveals an unprepared Palin

In print: Friday, October 3, 2008


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





 
The much-anticipated debate between vice presidential candidates Thursday night provided a stark contrast. Delaware Sen. Joe Biden, the running mate for Sen. Barack Obama, is well prepared to be vice president. Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the running mate for Sen. John McCain, clearly is not prepared. This is the rare election where voters should give serious consideration to the bottom of the ticket before casting their ballots for president.

Biden demonstrated a strong command of economic issues, health care and foreign policy. He cited specifics and offered unusually sharp responses, in contrast to his reputation for rambling answers. He made a coherent case against the Bush administration for its handling of the economy and the war in Iraq, and he effectively linked McCain's proposals to the unpopular incumbent.

Palin often talked in circles. In one sentence, she declared "darn right it was the predator lenders'' who have caused the economic crisis. Then she talked about the need for more regulatory oversight. Then she talked about the need for people to be responsible and avoid getting into debt.

At other points, she was absolutely incoherent. She lost herself in a rambling response about nuclear weapons. She was inarticulate at best about the causes of global warming — probably because she previously has questioned whether humans have contributed to the problem. Responded Biden: "I think it is man-made. … If you don't understand what the cause is, it's virtually impossible to come up with a solution.''

Here is the extent of Palin's explanation of energy policy. When Biden referred to Republican chants of "drill! drill! drill!'', Palin corrected him. "The chant is, 'drill, baby, drill,' '' she said.

Her message on the Iraq war was similarly simplistic. She said it would be a "travesty if we quit now in Iraq'' — which no one advocates. And Obama's call for a gradual withdrawal of troops, she said, is waving a white flag of surrender. Such responses lack depth or a grasp of reality.

Palin was clear on at least one point, and the Obama campaign will wrap it around McCain. In a discussion in which Biden described Obama's plan to keep tax cuts for the middle class but not for wealthier Americans, Palin suggested she was not on board with such a "redistribution of wealth.'' That was an easy shot for Biden, who noted that helping middle class families in Scranton, Pa., and other places send their children to college is not a redistribution of wealth.

Palin often chided Biden for looking backward instead of forward. No wonder, since she conceded the Bush administration has made "huge blunders'' on Iraq and the economy. "We're gonna forge ahead,'' she said. The problem, of course, is that McCain's vision on tax cuts, health care and the ongoing war in Iraq is virtually identical to Bush's. That makes it harder to build on McCain's reputation as a maverick, which Palin repeated as often as she could.

Biden was the clear winner of the only debate between the candidates for vice president. But the night was really about Palin, who on Monday will visit Clearwater. She proved to be disarmingly charming. When she's not fumbling for specifics or repeating generalities about fighting big government, opposing taxes and embracing patriotism, her folksy cadence sounds warm and approachable. It's clear why she connects with many Republicans eager to hear from someone who sounds familiar and informal.

But the Alaska governor said nothing to reassure Americans she is prepared to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.



[Last modified: Oct 02, 2008 11:24 PM]


Ray

[Ann]

Unfortunately, Palin will appeal to those who are as ignorant on the issues as she is. From what I understand, that's a helluva lot of the American public.

[Dachshund]

When the chattering class sets the bar so low that all you have to do is not poop your pants on stage to be declared "qualified" for the second highest office in the land you can't lose.

I watched the sideshow in the belly of the beast among about one hundred, upper middle class white Republicans. The men, as to be expected, thought she had balls and could care less about her frenetic, repeating of talking points. The women, on the other hand, found her "style" irritating and condescending. Their words not mine. I listened and never once asked their opinion. The most telling comment came when one woman said, "I'm embarrassed, as a woman, that this is the best the Republican Party could come up with." The women sitting around her nodded in agreement.

I don't think Palin's phony style over substance fooled any but the most naive.

edited to add:

It was not a debate, and pretending that it was and judging "performance" is to fall into the trap set by the campaign spinmeisters and talking point pimps.

[dixieman]

Palin did an excellent job on her part as well as Biden... Now I want to hear more from our canidates for pres... but, the Real problem with the United States is Congress... house and senate... people should start checking the record on how their reps in Congress have VOTED over the years... this is where many changes should be made...

[woodshere]

Unfortunately, Palin will appeal to those who are as ignorant on the issues as she is.

AMEN!!!

It's a shame that the bar for performance is set so low for our vice-presidential candidates.  Prior to the debate the word from pundits and such was that it would be successful for Palin if she didn't implode or make a complete fool of herself and Biden's debate would be a success if he didn't put his foot in his mouth.  Why wasn't and isn't the bar of success based on one's grasp of the issues, one's ideas to tackle the problems facing our country.  We have dumbed down our decision making process to choosing which one of the candidates is "one of us" (for the record I want someone that can relate to "us" but is not "one of us") to which candidate we would want to watch a movie with or go to a football game with or have a beer with (and for the record I would much rather do all these things with a date which if all goes well could lead to getting screwed rather than using such criteria to choose a president which leads to getting screwed over).

[Florida69]

I wish she would have stayed on point with a lot of the questions, I wanted to hear her response, however she did keep the debate on  her terms. We all know she is full of moose droppings, I can only pray that the rest of America sees what we all see..  I love that Biden stayed on point, and that he pointed out their fundamental differences.  


I was looking up the facts on the debate last night, my legal mind at work, and just thought I would share the site that I found the most information..  I have edited because it was over 20000 characters.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html


Fact Check.org
Biden and Palin debated, and both mangled some facts.

Palin mistakenly claimed that troop levels in Iraq had returned to “pre-surge” levels. Levels are gradually coming down but current plans would have levels higher than pre-surge numbers through early next year, at least.
Biden incorrectly said “John McCain voted the exact same way” as Obama on a controversial troop funding bill. The two were actually on opposite sides.

Palin repeated a false claim that Obama once voted in favor of higher taxes on “families” making as little as $42,000 a year. He did not. The budget bill in question called for an increase only on singles making that amount, but a family of four would not have been affected unless they made at least $90,000 a year.
Biden wrongly claimed that McCain “voted the exact same way” as Obama on the budget bill that contained an increase on singles making as little as $42,000 a year. McCain voted against it. Biden was referring to an amendment that didn't address taxes at that income level.
Palin claimed McCain’s health care plan would be “budget neutral,” costing the government nothing. Independent budget experts estimate McCain's plan would cost tens of billions each year, though details are too fuzzy to allow for exact estimates.

Palin wrongly claimed that “millions of small businesses” would see tax increases under Obama’s tax proposals. At most, several hundred thousand business owners would see increases.

For full details on these misstatements, and on additional factual disputes and dubious claims, please read on to the Analysis section.

Analysis
Palin Trips Up on Troop Levels
Palin got her numbers wrong on troop levels when she said "and with the surge that has worked, we're now down to pre-surge numbers in Iraq."

The surge was announced in January 2007, at which point there were 132,000 troops in Iraq, according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index. As of September 2008, that number was 146,000. President Bush recently announced that another 8,000 would be coming home by February of next year. But even then, there still would be 6,000 more troops in Iraq than there were when the surge began.

Palin: Barack Obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so…He turned around under political pressure and he voted against funding the troops. ...

As we've pointed out before, the squabble refers to a pair of 2007 votes on war funding. Obama voted for a version of the bill that included language calling for withdrawing troops from Iraq. Biden is simply wrong to say that McCain voted against that bill; he was absent and didn’t vote at all. McCain did oppose the bill, and he urged President Bush to veto it. Bush did. Obama then voted against the same bill without withdrawal language. He had voted yes on at least 10 other war funding bills prior to that single 2007 no vote.

Palin's False Tax Claims

Palin repeated a false claim about Barack Obama's tax proposal:

Palin: Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year. That's a lot of middle income average American families to increase taxes on them. I think that is the way to kill jobs and to continue to harm our economy.

Obama did not in fact vote to increase taxes on "families" making as little as $42,000 per year. What Obama actually voted for was a budget resolution that called for returning the 25 percent tax bracket to its pre-Bush tax cut level of 28 percent. That could have affected an individual with no children making as little as $42,000. But a couple would have had to earn $83,000 to be affected and a family of four at least $90,000. The resolution would not have raised taxes on its own, without additional legislation, and, as we've noted before, there is no such tax increase in Obama's tax plan. (The vote took place on March 14 of this year, not last year as Palin said.)

Palin also repeated the exaggeration that Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes. That number includes seven votes that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on corporations or affluent individuals; 23 votes that were against tax cuts; and 17 that came on just 7 different bills. She also claimed that Biden and Obama voted for "the largest tax increase in history." Palin is referring here to the Democrats' 2008 budget proposal, which would indeed have resulted in about $217 billion in higher taxes over two years. That's a significant increase. But measured as a percentage of the nation's economic output, or gross domestic product, the yardstick that most economists prefer, the 2008 budget proposal would have been the third-largest since 1968, and it's not even in the top 10 since 1940.

Biden's False Defense

Biden denied that Obama supported increasing taxes for families making $42,000 a year – but then falsely claimed that McCain had cast an identical vote.

Palin's Health Care Hooey. Palin claimed that McCain's health care plan would be "budget-neutral," costing the government nothing.

Palin: He's proposing a $5,000 tax credit for families so that they can get out there and they can purchase their own health care coverage. That's a smart thing to do. That's budget neutral. That doesn't cost the government anything ... a $5,000 health care credit through our income tax, that's budget neutral.

The McCain campaign hasn't released an estimate of how much the plan would cost, but independent experts contradict Palin's claim of a cost-free program.

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan, which at its peak would cover 5 million of the uninsured, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Obama's plan, which would cover 34 million of the uninsured, would cost $1.6 trillion over that time period.

The nonpartisan U.S. Budget Watch's fiscal voter guide estimates that McCain's tax credit would increase the deficit by somewhere between $288 billion to $364 billion by the year 2013, and that making employer health benefits taxable would bring in between $201 billion to $274 billion in revenue. That nets out to a shortfall of somewhere between $14 billion to $163 billion – for that year alone.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.


McCain in Spain?

Biden said that McCain had refused to meet with the government of Spain,
but McCain made no such definite statement.

Biden: The last point I'll make, John McCain said as recently as a couple of weeks ago he wouldn't even sit down with the government of Spain, a NATO ally that has troops in Afghanistan with us now. I find that incredible.

In a September 17 interview on Radio Caracol Miami, McCain appeared confused when asked whether he would meet with President Zapatero of Spain. He responded that "I would be willing to meet with those leaders who are our friends and want to work with us in a cooperative fashion," but then started talking about leaders in Latin America. He did not commit to meeting with Zapatero, but it wasn't clear he'd understood the question.

But the McCain campaign denied that their candidate was confused.
According to our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, campaign adviser Randy Scheunemann e-mailed CNN and the Washington Post the next day, saying that McCain's reluctance to commit to a meeting with Zapatero was a policy decision.

Scheunemann, September 2008: The questioner asked several times about Senator McCain's willingness to meet Zapatero — and id'd him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred. Senator McCain refused to commit to a White House meeting with President Zapatero in this interview.

That's not a refusal to meet with Zapatero, as Biden said. It's simply a refusal to commit himself one way or the other.


Palin's Small Business Balderdash


Palin repeated a falsehood that the McCain campaign has peddled, off and on, for some time:

Palin: But when you talk about Barack's plan to tax increase affecting only those making $250,000 a year or more, you're forgetting millions of small businesses that are going to fit into that category. So they're going to be the ones paying higher taxes thus resulting in fewer jobs being created and less productivity.

As we reported June 23, it's simply untrue that "millions" of small business owners will pay higher federal income taxes under Obama's proposal. According to an analysis by the independent Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, several hundred thousand small business owners, at most, would have incomes high enough to be affected by the higher rates on income, capital gains and dividends that Obama proposes. That counts as "small business owners" even those who merely have some sideline income from such endeavors as freelance writing, speaking or running rental properties, and who get the bulk of their income from employment elsewhere.

Defense Disagreements


Biden and Palin got into a tussle about military recommendations in Afghanistan:

Biden: The fact is that our commanding general in Afghanistan said today that a surge – the surge principles used in Iraq will not – well, let me say this again now – our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan, not Joe Biden, our commanding general in Afghanistan. He said we need more troops. We need government-building. We need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Palin: Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one, and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn't say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan.

Point Biden. To start, Palin got newly appointed Gen. David D. McKiernan's name wrong when she called him McClellan. And, more important, Gen. McKiernan clearly did say that surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. As the Washington Post reported:

Washington Post: "The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' " McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a "sustained commitment" to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.

However, it is worth noting that McKiernan also said that Afghanistan would need an infusion of American troops "as quickly as possible."


Killing Afghan Civilians?


Palin said that Obama had accused American troops of doing nothing but killing civilians, a claim she called "reckless" and "untrue."

Palin: Now, Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air-raiding villages and killing civilians. And such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment, again, hurts our cause.

Obama did say that troops in Afghanistan were killing civilians. Here’s the whole quote, from a campaign stop in New Hampshire:

Obama (August 2007): We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.

The Associated Press fact-checked this one, and found that in fact U.S troops were killing more civilians at the time than insurgents: "As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party." Afghan President Hamid Karzai had expressed concern about these civilian killings, a concern President Bush said he shared.

Whether Obama said that this was "all we're doing" is debatable. He said that we need to have enough troops so that we're "not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians," but did not say that troops are doing nothing else.


Out of Context?


Biden claimed a comment he made about "clean coal" was taken out of context:

Biden: My record for 25 years has supported clean coal technology. A comment made in a rope line was taken out of context. I was talking about exporting that technology to China so when they burn their dirty coal, it won't be as dirty, it will be clean.

Was it really taken out of context? Here’s the full exchange, which took place while Biden was shaking hands with voters along a rope line in Ohio.

Woman: Wind and solar are flourishing here in Ohio, why are you supporting clean coal?
Biden: We’re not supporting clean coal. Guess what? China’s building two every week, two dirty coal plants, and it’s polluting the United States. It’s causing people to die.

Obama-Biden campaign spokesman David Wade later said that “Biden’s point is that China is building coal plants with outdated technology every day, and the United States needs to lead by developing clean coal technologies.”

Whatever Biden meant or didn’t mean to say on the rope line, he has supported clean coal in the past. When the McCain camp used this one remark from Biden as the basis for a TV ad saying that Obama-Biden oppose clean coal, we said the claim was false. Obama’s position in favor of clean coal has been clear, and pushing for the technology has been part of his energy policy.


McCain in the Vanguard of Mortgage Reform?


Palin said that McCain had sounded the alarm on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago.

Palin: We need to look back, even two years ago, and we need to be appreciative of John McCain's call for reform with Fannie Mae, with Freddie Mac, with the mortgage-lenders, too, who were starting to really kind of rear that head of abuse.

Palin is referring to a bill that would have increased oversight on Fannie and Freddie. In our recent article about assigning blame for the crisis, we found that by the time McCain added his name to the bill as a cosponsor, the collapse was well underway. Home prices began falling only two months later. Our colleagues at PolitiFact also questioned this claim.



And There's More...


A few other misleads of note:

Palin said, "We're circulating about $700 billion a year into foreign countries" for imported oil, repeating an outdated figure often used by McCain. At oil prices current as of Sept. 30, imports are running at a rate of about $493 billion per year.


Biden claimed that McCain said in a magazine article that he wanted to deregulate the health care industry as the banking industry had been. That’s taking McCain’s words out of context. As we’ve said before, he was talking specifically about his proposal to allow the sale of health insurance across state lines.


Biden said five times that McCain's tax plan would give oil companies a "$4 billion tax cut." As we’ve noted previously, McCain’s plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent — for ALL corporations, not just oil companies. Biden uses a Democratic think tank's estimate for what the rate change is worth to the five largest U.S. oil companies.


Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 energy bill and said, “that’s what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.” It’s a false attack Sen. Hillary Clinton used against Obama in the primary, and McCain himself has hurled. It’s true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry.


Biden said that Iraq had an "$80 billion surplus." The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year, as we noted when Obama used the incorrect figure. A $21 billion supplemental spending bill, passed by the Iraqi legislature in August, knocked down the old projection.


Biden said four times that McCain had voted 20 times against funding alternative energy. However, in analyzing the Obama campaign's list of votes after the first presidential debate, we found the number was actually 11. In the other instances the Obama-Biden campaign cites, McCain voted not against alternative energy but against mandatory use of alternative energy, or he voted in favor of allowing exemptions from these mandates.

-by Brooks Jackson, Viveca Novak, Lori Robertson, Joe Miller, Jessica Henig and Justin Bank

Correction Oct. 3: In the summary of this story we originally referred to the "president" of Spain. Biden actually used the word "government" and we have corrected the reference.

Sources
Belasco, Amy. "The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11." 14 July 2008. Congressional Research Service. Accessed 2 October 2008.

Pickler, Nedra. "Fact Check: Obama on Afghanistan." The Associated Press. 14 Aug. 2007.

Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. "Promises, Promises: A Fiscal Voter Guide to the 2008 Election." U.S. Budget Watch. 29 Aug. 2008.

Williams, Roberton and Howard Gleckman. "An Updated Analysis of the 2008 Presidential Candidates' Tax Plans." Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. 15 Sep. 2008.

"Impacts of Increased Access to Oil and Natural Gas Resources in the Lower 48 Federal Outer Continental Shelf." 2007. Energy Information Administration. 8 Aug. 2008.

Petroleum Basic Statistics. The Energy Information Administration, 3 Oct. 2008.

NPC Global Oil & Gas Study. “Topic Paper #7, Global Access to Oil and Gas,” 18 July 2007.

Clarke, David and Liriel Higa, "Blueprints Gain Narrow Adoption," Congressional Quarterly Weekly, 15 March 2008.

"Iraq Index," Brookings Iraq Index.

Baldor, Lolita C, "General: Urgent need for troops in Afghanistan now," Associated Press. 2 Oct 2008.

"Bush: 8,000 Troops Coming Home By Feb," CBS/AP. 9 Sept 2008.

Tyson, Ann Scott, "Commander in Afghanistan Wants More Troops," Washington Post. 2 Oct 2008.

Barnes, Julian N., "More U.S. troops needed in Afghanistan 'quickly,' general says," Los Angeles Times. 2 Oct 2008.

Table T08-0164 "Distribution of Tax Units with Business Income by Statutory Marginal Tax Rate, Assuming Extension and Indexation of the 2007 AMT Patch, 2009" Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, 20 May 2008.
Related Articles
FactChecking Debate No. 1
Facts muddled in Mississippi McCain-Obama meeting.
Who Caused the Economic Crisis?
MoveOn.org blames McCain advisers. He blames Obama and Democrats in Congress. Both are wrong.

[edfu]

Gee whillikers, She. Did. Not. Answer. The. Questions.  If asked about taxes, she talked about education.  If asked about X, she talked about Y.  I guess Ifill was forbidden by the rules to pursue her.  That's why Miss Runner-Up-Alaska did so poorly with Couric, who relentlessly pursued her to answer the question.  And all the "gosh golly gee whiz" crap irritated the hell out of this East Coaster.  (Miss Palin's lies are enumerated elsewhere on this here amazin' contraption called the innernet.)  

Why, oh why, have we allowed politics to dumb down intelligence and demeanor like everything else in our civilization and culture?  Is that what it really takes to get elected these sad days?  Is that what the "common man/woman" has come to mean?   Is it Andrew Jackson redux instead of Thomas Jefferson?  Whatever happened to dignity, to the profound, to the intellect, to the smart, to philosophical inquiry?  Must they be absent in our political leaders because we've beaten them up and mocked them in our schoolyards when they were kids--because it became the cool, normative thing to do--and continue to do so today by calling them elitists?   Should stupid be the trait we want in our leaders?  Look where that's gotten us in the last eight years.  Is that what it takes for us to identify with the occupants of the White House?  Have we no other standards for leadership?  Why must we be asked to vote for Joe- or Josephine-Six-Pack?  Because that's what so many of us are?   Must democracy mean the lowest common denominator?   Or does it mean the finest and the best?  

All of that ran through my head while watching tonight, gosh darn it.   And I thought of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Monroe,  Lincoln, FDR (to name only a few) while I watched the ex-mayoress of Wasilla, whose family couldn't get booked on Jerry Springer, read off of cue cards and wink at the camera.  It has finally come to this...potentially one heartbeat away from a man I believe is more ill than we know.  

May H. L. Mencken bless us all.   It was Mencken who said, "The essential objection to democracy is that, with few exceptions, it imposes degrading acts and attitudes upon the men responsible for the welfare and dignity of the state."  Ms. Palin and her selector are not among those exceptions.                  

[weasel]

Unfortunately, Palin will appeal to those who are as ignorant on the issues as she is. From what I understand, that's a helluva lot of the American public.

yes ANN many AMERICANS  vote with no sense of what is happening !

 most of the repulicans I know here in Missouri are POOR , now what ARE  they thinking !

THEY ARE NOT THINKING !

 THEY ONLY THINK " ABORTION " WILL GO AWAY WITH   PALIN /AND WRINKLY OLD GUY !

They envolve the CHURCH !, this should be seperate !

I PRAY  OBAMA gets in , and nobody steps up to help him OUT of office . like an Aswald person

                                        WE MUST VOTE OBAMA !

                                                                                         KARL

PS many persons here in Missouri can NOT get over the Mulato " problem " ,very sad indeed !

[Florida69]

Unfortunately, Karl we, Americans, are still part of that good ole boy society.  I have never been prejudice against anyone.  It has been this way all my life, I grew up in the South in a prominent farm family.  I used to get in trouble eating dinner on the porch with the help.  However, I am the only child out of ten (I was adopted by my grandparents) that ever graduated highschool most less went to college.  I have fundamental differences with my family, many whom have voted for Bush twice, even though I tried to sway them.  The differences made me realize that you have to pick your battles carefully, and only go to war against those that you know you can win.  My family is now paying the price for being stubborn and hard headed, I guess that is what they get from trying to put lipstick on a pig.  ANYWAY, the issue of abortion, has been legal since Roe v. Wade, before that women were having abortions and women dying due to the bad medical conditions of illegal abortions.   I am with you buddy, I too know that Obama is the lesser of the two evils.  I had an old college professor who told me once you will probably never get to vote for who you like, but the better of the two running.  So I guess Obama 08 is how we have to vote, in order to rein in the chaos that has consumed this country.  D

[Basquo]

Palin did an excellent job

Are you kidding? She wasn't debating, she was regurgitating. Dodging questions and changing the subject is not "excellent."

She's got so many people fooled into thinking she's qualified to  be Vice President.  Don't you see that?

This woman wants your daughter/niece/sister to go to prison for having an abortion, even if she was raped.  She is "tolerant" of gay couples having certain rights and "signing papers" etc., at their own expense.

Next you'll be telling me that Alabama has enough money to raise all the unwanted bastards born into a world that loathed them before they were conceived out of wedlock, and that all the gay couples you know have a couple of thousand dollars laying around to get those legal papers that they wouldn't need if they had forked over 30 bucks for a marraige liscense.

[edfu]

Sarah Palin's debate flow chart:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2909496470_d751e8a3dc.jpg?v=0

[atlq]

 
"Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq and that is not what our troops need to hear today, that's for sure. And it's not what our nation needs to be able to count on. You guys opposed the surge. The surge worked. Barack Obama still can't admit the surge works. We'll know when we're finished in Iraq when the Iraqi government can govern its people and when the Iraqi security forces can secure its people. And our commanders on the ground will tell us when those conditions have been met. And Maliki and (Iraqi President Jalal) Talabani also in working with us are knowing again that we are getting closer and closer to that point, that victory that's within sight."

Sarah Palin, on Iraq





" A two-state solution is the solution... Israel is our strongest and best ally in the Middle East... building our embassy, also, in Jerusalem, those things that we look forward to being able to accomplish with this peace-seeking nation. I can promise you, in a McCain-Palin administration, that commitment is there to work with our friends in Israel. I'm so encouraged to know that we both love Israel. "

Sarah Palin, on   


CAMERON: Would you change any of that, (INAUDIBLE) than the Bush/Cheney administration in terms of the power of the executive?

PALIN: Well, again, as I tried to explain last night, our executive branch will know what our job is. We have the three very distinct branches of government. You know, we might be bleeding our authority over to the Legislative or Judicial branch to do our job in the Executive branch as administers.

Sarah Palin, on the  power of the executive under the US Constitution



The more she opens her mouth, the more I wonder:

Why does John McCain hate America?

[randym431]

Its shocking how low the bar is lowered and standards for people like Palin and GW Bush.
If they make it thru without drooling or falling down on the floor, they give them an A+.
When you look at other presidents and VP's from long past, you wonder how they would
react. Pretty pathetic? You betcha! <wink wink>

For you youtube fans, I made and added two more to my collection.
There fun to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cp1RSrBego

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xa-lYmXQf0

[mecch]

I sure sleep better knowing all witchcraft has been exorcised from our political leaders...

[J.R.E.]

I sure sleep better knowing all witchcraft has been exorcised from our political leaders...

But unfortunately, that doesn't remove the 666 from "W's skull !


Ray

[J.R.E.]

Miss Incompetant ( Sara Palin) on attack mode :

http://www.ktla.com/content_landing_page/?Palin-Says-Obama-Paling-Around-With-Terr=1&blockID=81317&feedID=171

Ray

[alisenjafi]

Ray, this might actually work in Obama's favor.  As as pointed out on Meet The Press today:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27034205/page/2/

MR. BEGALA (Democratic Strategist):  ... But John McCain sat on the board of a very right-wing organization. It was the U.S. Council for World Freedom. It was chaired by a guy named John Singlaub, who wound up involved in the Iran-Contra scandal. It was an ultraconservative right-wing group. The Anti-Defamation League, in 1981, when McCain was on the board, said this about this organization. It was affiliated with the World Anti-Communist League, the parent organization, which ADL said, “has increasingly become a gathering place, a forum, a point of contact for extremists, racists and Anti-Semites.”

Mccain has a list of recent group of unsavoury characters in his fold, where Obama was only 8 when the Weather Men ( taken from a Bob Dylan lyric) were in action.  This might fade away or get blown up, that along with John Haggee, Mccain is not just anti Semitic, but anti Catholic as well.

I am waiting for news about JM's wide stance in public restrooms!
Johnny

[J.R.E.]

Good to hear from you Johnny !! And wouldn't you know it,...Somehow I managed to miss, "Meet The press" today. I think I nodded off early today !   


Take care---Ray

[randym431]

The GOP is even saying they will file a complaint against Obama for breaking fund raising laws or guidelines/rules. What was so funny is they HAVE NO PROOF, they are just assuming because Obama raised so much money.
What jerks!!!

Its gutter time for the GOP. Be prepared...

[J.R.E.]

I finally caught that episode of "Meet The Press". It was replayed at 2:00 this morning !

Ray

[Dachshund]

The GOP is even saying they will file a complaint against Obama for breaking fund raising laws or guidelines/rules. What was so funny is they HAVE NO PROOF, they are just assuming because Obama raised so much money.
What jerks!!!

Its gutter time for the GOP. Be prepared...

Obama officials say they’ve implemented several safeguards in an attempt to prevent illegal contributions. They also note that John McCain has been ordered to return more than $1.2 million in possibly illegal donations.

[alisenjafi]

Well now we can get a history lesson of the Keating economics of the 80's;
http://www.keatingeconomics.com/
Looks like Sarah not only took the gloves off, but pushed mccain under the bus-then again she is a pitbull!