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Author Topic: Cd4 count test results...  (Read 4233 times)

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Offline heretolearn

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Cd4 count test results...
« on: April 04, 2016, 10:31:50 pm »
So I got my Cd4 count test result from a couple of weeks ago today. It is 50 points higher than December. Does this mean nothing? Does it mean my immune system was never hurt in the first place? It rose from 39% to 42%. How long does it usually take to be able to tell your immune system is recovering?
12/16/15- Dx&Pregnant
12/21/15- Cd4- 39% 902 Vl- 700
1/4/16- started Complera
1/25/16- Vl- 30
2/22/16- Vl- UD
3/14/16- Cd4- 42% 952 Vl- UD
6/16- cd4- 1218 vl- ud

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 02:32:49 am »
Hi

So reading this you last results were: Cd4- 42% CD4 Count 952 and VL- UD.
That's truly excellent results.  A normal CD4 Count is somewhere between 500-1500 range so your 952 count is great, same goes for your CD4 % of 42 %.
 
Take it easy.

Jim
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Offline CaveyUK

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 08:15:12 am »
Latest thinking is that if you are UD and are in the 'normal' range for CD4, you don't really learn anything from having a CD4 count performed.

Dr Gallant (well known HIV expert online) said we are now living in the 'post CD4 era'.

The only time it is important is if someone is in the lower range (ie. lower than 'normal' range, ie. less than 400, and especially if you are less than 200 where serious problems can manifest)

As you are UD and in the high normal range (and have a good number) I would ignore the cd4. It may go down a bit some times, and up a bit at others. No point getting anxious about it either way. You are doing very well.

Staying UD is all that is important now. Nothing else.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 08:18:33 am by caveyuk »
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Offline heretolearn

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 12:09:55 pm »
Thanks guys.
I guess what it amounts to is trying to figure out how long I have been infected and what toll was taken on my immune system. I think it is nearly two years but I got sick twice that could have been seroconversion. Once was Summer '14 (when I asked the doctor if I may have HIV and he looked at me like I was crazy) and once was January of '15. I didn't get tested for 4 years. I need to just let the detective work go and leave it as a cold case. I have only been with one man (my husband) since December '14 and he is negative and supportive but every now n then he has thrown it in my face that he may have doubts of when I was infected so I just wish I could show him that it was before we were a couple. That isn't going to happen, I guess.
12/16/15- Dx&Pregnant
12/21/15- Cd4- 39% 902 Vl- 700
1/4/16- started Complera
1/25/16- Vl- 30
2/22/16- Vl- UD
3/14/16- Cd4- 42% 952 Vl- UD
6/16- cd4- 1218 vl- ud

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 12:27:24 pm »
Hi

Yeah no amount of counting CD4's will tell you when you were infected.
It's going to be a cold case.

"he may have doubts of when I was infected"

Sounds like he has slight issues and can't accept what you are telling him. Oh well  that's his insecurity issues showing. 

Jim
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 12:29:27 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline CaveyUK

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 05:58:33 pm »
There's no way of knowing how old an infection is based on numbers. Everyone is different - some are fast progressors, some are 'controllers' and keep it at bay for years.

There are certain patterns which can identify a likely *very* recent infection, but even then it's not definitive.

I think I picked up my passenger about 4yrs ago, but every now and then I think it could have been longer. I'll never know for sure.

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Offline heretolearn

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 06:19:10 pm »
I think it's natural that he feels that way but at the same time I think he knows the truth. I just need to look forward and be grateful for my blessings.
I count myself lucky to have such good numbers and I don't really have any bad feelings about being infected at this day and age in a developed country except that I'm pregnant and that he has misgivings.
Unless I caught it years ago from my ex husband, I know where it came from and I wouldn't have had a chance to meet this baby if I had known before I got pregnant.
The main things I worry about are the baby and the stigma. I worry that my family will find out.
12/16/15- Dx&Pregnant
12/21/15- Cd4- 39% 902 Vl- 700
1/4/16- started Complera
1/25/16- Vl- 30
2/22/16- Vl- UD
3/14/16- Cd4- 42% 952 Vl- UD
6/16- cd4- 1218 vl- ud

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 09:53:47 am »
Hi

Look I think you have a great attitude about this and I can only wish you all the best with the pregnancy and the little baby that's on it's way. :-)  I have 2 younger kids myself, not baby's anymore but still young aged 4 & 6.

The when, how does not matter focus on what is and keep the happy thoughts going, focus on the good things, You will be fine, the baby will be fine and when you have the baby make sure to enjoy the time with the baby as they grow so fast.  My 6 year old already thinks she is all grown up and I'm just a stuffy old man, than again she also thinks I a one of the Dr.Who's on the TV. - lol.

Take it easy.

Jim

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Offline heretolearn

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 09:12:22 am »
Thank you. I do need to prioritize and stop worrying about SO many things. Being a real adult is really exhausting. I'm still young so having most of the responsibility is still new.
My kids are the same age as yours! They are the best part of life. They grow up way too fast.
12/16/15- Dx&Pregnant
12/21/15- Cd4- 39% 902 Vl- 700
1/4/16- started Complera
1/25/16- Vl- 30
2/22/16- Vl- UD
3/14/16- Cd4- 42% 952 Vl- UD
6/16- cd4- 1218 vl- ud

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 12:55:04 pm »
Kids are simply exhausting but worth it :-)
Keep us posted on how things are going, wishing you well.

Jim
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Offline metekrop

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2016, 02:15:59 pm »
Hi

  A normal CD4 Count is somewhere between 500-1500 range so your 952 count is great,

Jim

Is it possible by the way to attain a CD count of 1500 by thaking antiviral meds?  After how many years of doses can a person attain that number.  Just curious ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 02:21:27 pm by metekrop »
Diag.on 12/8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
12/08 - 2/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - 7/09 CD 179, VL 197k
10/09 CD 300 VL U
3/10 468 U
8/10 460 U
12/10 492 U
3/11 636 U
8/11 530 U
1/12  616 U
7/12 640 U
12/12 669 U
5/13 711 U
11/13 663 U
4/14  797 U
10/14 810 U
4/15 671 U
10/15 694 U
3/16 768 U
8/16 459 U
2/22 780 U
8/31 940 U
2/26 809 U
8/18 882 U
3/28 718 U
8/15 778 U
2/25 920 70
8/11 793 U
2/22 690 U
6/8 834 U

Offline terrymoore

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2016, 02:23:55 pm »
Quote
Is it possible by the way to attain a CD count of 1500 by thaking antiviral meds?  After how many years of doses can a person attain that number.  Just curious ;)

whEn i was i was diagnosed, my cd4 was 460. a year later it is almost 1300. I guess it depends on how quickly you start meds, where your cd4 started and how well your body reacts to the meds.

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2016, 02:39:33 pm »
Is it possible by the way to attain a CD count of 1500 by thaking antiviral meds?  After how many years of doses can a person attain that number.  Just curious ;)

?
Look UD job done, no point in worrying about the CD4 count, however it's nice to know from a mental aspect if your count is in the general norm range for adults . Call it mental reassurance, The range is a range as it differs per person, but an adult who is generally in good health should be somewhere between 500 and 1500. ish.
When I passed 500 I had a party and a night out :-)

I look at it like this I'm UD and have been consistently UD that's all that I can hope for, as for the CD4 count I don't know what my count was before I was infected so I don't know I could have already fully bounced back and be on the level that is normal for me, than again I could be way above , who knows.

Yeah I know people with CD4 ranges above 1300-1400's ...

Jim

« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 02:50:06 pm by JimDublin »
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 03:03:16 pm »
Is it possible by the way to attain a CD count of 1500 by thaking antiviral meds?)
the easy answer is NO.

the complex answer is:
There are no meds, not even ARVs, that do anything to affect your cd4s. Your cd4 count is simply a snapshot measurement of the amount of cd4s in your system. It is NOT a measure of "healthiness". There is nothing to measure that. ;) Common wisdom says that the more cd4s you have the more work they can do and the healthier you are. However that's not true either. Some people with low CD4 counts have very hard working cd4s and have few health problems. Other people with high cd4s counts may have weak cd4s and be sick quite often. Your cd4 count is basically tied to the genetics of your parents as too how many you have and how well they work.

ARVs do NOT increase your cd4s. ARVs simply decrease the HIV, which normally destroys your cd4s in the process of reproducing. Stopping the HIV, allows your cd4s to remain alive and functioning - which means the amount of your cd4s will increase since HIV won't be killing them. How much they will increase is simply a matter of your genetics. Of course, a more healthy lifestyle (less alcohol, no smoking, exercise and good diet) can help you actually be "healthier", allowing your immune system to improve more which could raise the cd4 count some.

The only "magic" number to worry about with your cd4s is a count of 200 or less. It's at that point that your immune system is so low/weak that opportunistic infections can flourish without your body fighting them off. For example, nearly all of us have the Pneumocystis pneumonia (PCP) fungus residing in our lungs (75% of children test seropositive by age 4). It's not until your immune system stops suppressing PCP (under 200 cd4s) that it becomes a problem.

FYI current guidelines have changed, emphasizing how little your cd4 counts matter to your health or HIV status, to require two viral load tests a year with only one cd4 test a year. After two years of remaining virally suppressed (undetectable and >500) the cd4 test becomes optional. (more info is in this thread: changing frequency of labs). Since cd4 tests are also more expensive, not only does this greatly reduced amount of testing save needless worrying by patients, but it saves serious health care dollars that can be spent on actual health problems.

Are you adherent to your meds? Are you undetectable?
those are the only two questions that need to be answered ;)
leatherman (aka Michael)

We were standing all alone
You were leaning in to speak to me
Acting like a mover shaker
Dancing to Madonna then you kissed me
And I think about it all the time
- Darren Hayes, "Chained to You"

Offline CaveyUK

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 03:11:16 pm »
Was about to post but see that Leatherman made the point....

Once in the 'normal' range, ie > 500 (some places say 400) the actual count of CD4 becomes meaningless from a health perspective. Someone with 1,200 may get sicker and be less healthy than someone with 500. It's all about quality rather than quantity.

So if <500 and especially if <200, the CD4 is your primary tool for treatment decisions and monitoring.

Once > 500, then if UD it's best to just put them to the back of your mind.
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2016, 03:25:59 pm »
Once > 500, then if UD it's best to just put them to the back of your mind.
really after achieving and sustaining >200 and undetectable, a patient doesn't need to worry - and that's why cd4 tests are done only once a year.

Many patients, especially those who had a very low cd4 count at one point (the nadir), have a very slow (perhaps years to reach the "normal" range) and limited increase (often patients may never exceed 300-500).
leatherman (aka Michael)

We were standing all alone
You were leaning in to speak to me
Acting like a mover shaker
Dancing to Madonna then you kissed me
And I think about it all the time
- Darren Hayes, "Chained to You"

Offline Jim Allen

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Re: Cd4 count test results...
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2016, 03:36:18 pm »
Really no point in worrying about the CD4 counts at all nothing you do will change them. Still remains a nice to know.  Take the meds and be adherent, watch VL. 

As for how often it's checked it differs per location and per patient at times.

Jim
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