Gay Marriage on November Florida Ballot

[J.R.E.]

I  don't like this at all !!

Florida4Marriage.org had raised more than $444,000 by the end of December, the latest report available. The main donors are the Republican Party of Florida ($300,000) and Florida Catholic Conference ($45,500). Hundreds of ordinary people gave between $1 and $50.



This was the headlines today, In th St. Petersburg Times "Gay Marriage On Ballot"


http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/02/State/Gay_marriage_on_ballo.shtml


Gay marriage on ballot
An initiative to ban same-sex marriage in Florida is certified for the November vote.
By ALEX LEARY, Times Staff Writer
Published February 2, 2008


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TALLAHASSEE - The gay marriage battle has arrived in Florida.

A proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage qualified for the November ballot in a last-minute petition tally Friday night - a development that could affect this fall's presidential election.

But a much closer watched, higher stakes measure did not make the deadline. Advocates for Hometown Democracy, which is pushing an initiative that would require local referenda for changes to local land use plans, now must aim for the 2010 ballot.

"It proves that private property rights are significantly important to Floridians, as they are to all Americans," said Barney Bishop, chief executive of Associated Industries of Florida and head of an anti-Hometown Democracy group called Save Our Constitution.

The fate of each ballot initiative came down to the final hours of the deadline as state elections workers raced to verify signed petitions faxed in from 67 counties. Backers of the gay marriage initiative thought they had enough signatures in December, but a glitch in state computers put them down by about 22,000.

The so-called marriage protection amendment, three years in the making, would define marriage in Florida as exclusively between a man and a woman.

"No other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized," the amendment language says.

Florida already has a law against gay marriage, but petition organizers say it should be put into the Constitution to protect against lawsuits or future whims of the state Legislature.

"I'm grateful to God first and our supporters second," said John Stemberger, an organizer for Florida4Marriage.org. "The bottom line is kids need a mom and dad. Same-sex marriages subject kids to a vast, untested social experiment."

Currently, 27 states have passed constitutional bans on gay marriage. Massachusetts is the only state that allows same-sex marriage, while a handful of states permit civil unions.

At least 60 percent of Florida voters must agree for the amendment to be added to the state Constitution.

To get on the ballot, a petition must get 611,009 valid signatures, which is 8 percent of Florida voters who cast ballots in the last presidential election. The 8 percent criteria also must be met in at least 13 of Florida's 25 congressional districts.

Florida4Marriage.org collected 649,346 signatures, according to the Secretary of State's Office. It cleared 8 percent in 15 of the 25 districts.

The presence of the proposal has the potential to greatly alter voter turnout in a presidential election year.

Evangelicals and social conservatives now have a much higher motivation to go to the polls.

But the proposal could also spur interest from the opposition, which is vast and diverse. An opposition group, the bipartisan Florida Red & Blue Committee, calls the initiative "dangerous and disingenuous."

Jon Kislak, chairman of the group, said Friday night: "Those pushing this amendment have had three years to collect the required number of petitions. That they met that goal literally at the final hour should send a clear message that Floridians feel the state has more important things to do than create another government intrusion into our private lives."

The question now puts Gov. Charlie Crist, the state's top Republican, in an awkward spot. He signed one of the petitions while running for governor in 2006 but has since backed away from the issue.

"I'm just a live and let live kind of guy," he recently told the St. Petersburg Times.

Crist has asked the Republican Party of Florida not to devote any more money to the cause, saying that weightier issues were at hand.

But Jim Greer, a Crist ally and head of the Republican Party, issued a statement saying the successful signature drive "illustrates the widespread support for the sanctity of marriage."

Florida4Marriage.org had raised more than $444,000 by the end of December, the latest report available. The main donors are the Republican Party of Florida ($300,000) and Florida Catholic Conference ($45,500). Hundreds of ordinary people gave between $1 and $50.

The Hometown Democracy initiative was launched by environmentalists seeking a greater say in local development decisions. It would require voter approval for changes to land-use plans.

Leslie Blackner, a Palm Beach lawyer involved in the effort, pledged Friday night to keep working.

"We'll be on the ballot for 2010," Blackner predicted.

Business groups view it as the No. 1 enemy and poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into several opposition groups.

The effort was also slowed by a signature revocation effort led by Save Our Constitution. Under a state law that went into effect Aug. 1, opponents have 150 days to contact petition signers and see if they want to change their mind.

Of the 564,558 signatures verified by the Secretary of State's Office, 18,731 were revoked, putting the group's bottom line at 545,827. Signatures are good for four years.

Tallahassee bureau chief Steve Bousquet contributed to this report.

 

Ballot language

The amendment would add a new section to Article I: "Inasmuch as marriage is the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife, no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized."

Web sites for both sides in the gay marriage debate:

-www.florida4marriage.org

-www.floridaredandblue.com




Ray

[BT65]

Ray, here in hoosierville (Indiana) they're trying to write similar language into the state constitution that would make gay marriage banned permanently.  I think it's disgraceful that people are spending so much of their time and effort on this.  As usual, people who have no idea about said topic go running about trying to control it to best fit into their narrow-minded thinking.

Edited to include link to Indiana's SJ-47 proposal:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071231/LOC

Edited again:  sorry, the link has expired.  I'll try to find another one.

[poz1970]

When is the vote? this could be very interesting!

Florida strikes me as it would be one of the more progressive american states? so hopefully this wont' endup happening?!

J

[Andy Velez]

Anything pro-gay is what conservatives use to distract from other issues in a campaign. This is dangerous because stirring up the bugaboo of the "gay agenda" has proven very effective in the past.

Florida one of the more progressive states? Not really. It's very much a mix so for instance it's very hostile to gays adopting. Remember, Brother Bush was governor there until recently, (and has/had his own presidential aspirations, lord help us!), and the anti-Castro, conservative Cuban population is powerful and very vocal in Florida politics.

[David_CA]

I only hope that people who oppose this amendment will show it by voting.  Many times, the effected group (gay people, in this case) don't seem to vote in the numbers that those pushing for these BS amendments do.  It's not the 'majority of citizens', it's the 'majority of those who voted'.  I often hear more for these anti gay things than I do for those opposing such laws... like a vocal minority compared to a silent majority.  What really bothers me is this is trying to not only protect the 'sanctity of marriage' (what an ignorant sounding expression) but to prevent unions completely, which are not marriages.

David

[Iggy]

Anything pro-gay is what conservatives use to distract from other issues in a campaign. This is dangerous because stirring up the bugaboo of the "gay agenda" has proven very effective in the past.

Yep.   Gay Marriage regardless of it being official or not, is really on every ballot and in every election for quite a while.   All a direct ballot question is give people a chance to have their moral judgments and prejudices be given an official process to be voiced.

[Buckmark]

Anything pro-gay is what conservatives use to distract from other issues in a campaign.

I agree.  In states that have already passed bans on gay marriage, what has changed?  Nothing that I can see.  It's just an emotional appeal to get people lathered up, and to make them feel like they've done something important, when it fact they haven't done shit to improve their lives or their communities.  And for some folks, I think that enacting a gay marriage ban just makes them feel smug and superior.

Henry

[Joe K]

The phrase "ban gay marriage" is right wing speak for "denying gays equal rights" because that is exactly what a marriage ban does.  Not only does it ban acknowledgment of gay unions, it relegates all gays to second class citizens in both the eyes of the country and the law.  The divorce rate exceeds 50% and surely gays can do no worse than their straight counterparts, but prejudice dies hard and I suspect it will take decades to undo this mess.

As to Florida being a progressive state, that's a great joke.  No, Florida has been run by Republicans for years and they have driven the state into the ground.  Costs are skyrocketing, insurance is either too costly and/or unattainable and the tax structure is crushing the average citizen.  But Florida legislators do not care as they continue to mandate programs at the state level that must be paid for at the local level with no contribution from the state budget.  Florida may face a meltdown similar to those of New York and California if they cannot get their fiscal house in order.  Florida is a red state.  While the counties that contain Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm beach lean heavily Democratic, the vast majority are Republicans.

I knew this was coming to Florida and that is just another reason that we could not leave that state fast enough.

[poz1970]

Don't want to start a flame war or anything here, and don't really know much about american politics, but, in a stoned moment, this story got me really interested in the US constitution;

Would banning gay marriage be constitutional?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiv.html

Article 5;
Section 2. The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.



Wouldn't this take precedence over each state's constitution?

At the very least, civil unions, not being religious should be permitted throughout the united states?

Seems like religion is tied far too deeply in the US political system,




IMO, the best one;
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxiv.html
Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Doesn't this ballot sorta abridge the privileges of florida us citizens?

Dunno how this works seeing its not a law, but an amendment to their own constitution?!



J

[J.R.E.]

I only hope that people who oppose this amendment will show it by voting.  Many times, the effected group (gay people, in this case) don't seem to vote in the numbers that those pushing for these BS amendments do.  It's not the 'majority of citizens', it's the 'majority of those who voted'. 
David

I would certainly hope that happens. But I have a bad feeling this is going to pass. As I understand it, it has to pass by 60%  of the voters. This past Tuesday primary the turnout was good.I think there will be an excellent turnout this November. The Republicans timed this perfectly as usual.

When is the vote? this could be very interesting!

J

This vote takes place on November 4TH ( Tuesday) This is the day we vote for a new prez...



Ray

[404error]

Seems like religion is tied far too deeply in the US political system

I know.  The hypocracy is sooo entertaining.  America: The Christian Fundamentalist hotbed of the world.  In short the western worlds equivalent to militant Islam.

[Ann]

This vote takes place on November 4TH ( Tuesday) This is the day we vote for a new prez...

The last time (as far as I am aware) election day happened to be November 4th, it was my 18th birthday. I was living in a student house off-campus at Kent State University and we were having a combination election day/birthday party. It was the worst fucking birthday of my life - Ronnie Rayguns got elected.      

Just sayin'....

[newbernswiss]

I wrote about this sometime ago in "AIDS ACTIVISM", glad to see that others are looking at this now as it does more than affect just gay marriage.

In 1997 the Florida Legislature passed the Denfense of Marriage Act, limiting marriage to heterosexual couples. This law proclaims the term MARRIAGE means only a legal union between one man and one woman. Same sex couples sometimes have religious and civil ceremonies to celebrate their commitments, but the state of Florida does not recognize their relationship.
You would think that anti-gay groups, and some reliigious groups would be satisfied with this law defining marriage. Of course they  are not and want more. The anti-gay group Florida4Marriage is pushing hard to have a ballot placed on the 2008 November election. Now they want Floridians to vote on whether same sex couples have a right to a civil union. What does this mean for the GLBT population of Florida? The proposed amendment  would ban domestic-partnership benefits such as health insurance that are offered to employees in the public sector.  This has already happened in 2004 in Michigan. Of course those of us who have our partners on our health plans would lose those valuable benefits...and you know what that could mean with those living with HIV.
I don't understand why so-called Christians have such hate in their hearts toward others who differ in beliefs or living arrangements. Where is the love, compassion, caring, the rights for all people to live freely...I personally don't care how one worships, lives with, as long as they do no harm to others. These religious groups, and other groups are doing harm to others...they hate GLBT people, and they hate others who don't believe and live as they do.
I hope the admendment does not pass. It will affect all GLBT people especially those with HIV who live in a domestic partnership relationship with benefits. Please get out and vote against such hate.

[Matty the Damned]

As Andy notes:

Anything pro-gay is what conservatives use to distract from other issues in a campaign.

The Religious Wrong is using a time-honoured tactic here. In Australian politics it's called "dog-whistling" and it's designed to marshal their supporters and in this case it's being used to get the otherwise disillusioned conservative core out to the ballot box.

Since it seems the Republicans don't have much to offer by way of presidential candidates, they're saddled with a failing war, a faltering economy and innumerable political figures who seemed more interested in molesting children than running your country there's a real risk that large chunks of the right's Rank and File just won't turn up on election day.

The Democrats have the campaign ascendancy. Two good candidates vying for the nom, oodles of cash and control of both houses of the Congress - there's a vibrancy and a dynamism on the Left that has seen Democratic voters engaged and involved.

There's a whiff of victory in the air.

So naturally the conservatives have reverted to type and are wheeling out that time honoured shibboleth of faggots perverting the family unit. There's nothing more revolting than a conservative on the run, and this just underlines that point.

Hopefully the American electorate is more sophisticated than that. Matty the Damned is betting they are.

MtD

[David_CA]

Hopefully the American electorate is more sophisticated than that. Matty the Damned is betting they are.
MtD

The bad thing is that the electorate won't be involved in the gay marriage issue on Florida's ballot.  I'm pretty comfortable that the electorate will do the right thing when it comes to the pres, but often state and local governments cause the immediate effect on its citizens.

David

[Matty the Damned]

A bad thing? Gay marriage is bullshit. It's why the Christian right are so obsessed with it.

MtD

[David_CA]

A bad thing? Gay marriage is bullshit. It's why the Christian right are so obsessed with it.

MtD

Only for you, dear.     Hubby and I have been married for a year and a half... just not in the country where we reside.

[Matty the Damned]

Only for you, dear.   Hubby and I have been married for a year and a half... just not in the country where we reside.

Feh. That Dutch/Canadian/Danish marriage certificate has all the validity of a couple 9 year olds playing house. If the Great State of North Carolina don't recognise it, you two ain't husband and husband, you're just two blokes with a cat.

MtD

/edited for necessary formatting/

[David_CA]

Only for you, dear.   Hubby and I have been married for a year and a half... just not in the country where we reside.

Feh. That Dutch/Canadian/Danish marriage certificate has all the validity of a couple 9 year olds playing house. If the Great State of North Carolina don't recognise it, you two ain't husband and husband, you're just two blokes with a cat.

MtD

Wow, you're quick today!  That's exactly why it is important.  (Btw, that's 5 cats, not a cat.)

DtD

[Snowangel]

I hate this shit. HATE IT. I hate politics.  It all frustrates me to no end.  Especially the bullshit about the kids deserve to have a mother and a father?  WTF?  I am living proof that this couldn't be further from the truth.  What world do they live in?  Most of the crimes against children lately have been from thier biological parents. Mother or Father or both.  A healthy home is a happy home.  A happy home is where no one is living a lie, they are free to be whoever they are.  I don't want people to judge me and I certainly don't want to judge them.  I don't know a thing about someone but I am going to tell them who they can or can't sleep with.  How much sense does that make?  What would take to make everyone including the politicians to realize that it is none of thier fucking business.  I am so out of the loop I thought we were voting for president soon, not friggin November or whenever it is.  Wasting millions of dollars so they can all do commercials and have debates that basically bend me over and blow smoke up my ass....for the next 9 or 10 months.  Just great.
Sorry I had to vent.

[BT65]

Snow, well said.

[J.R.E.]

Sorry I had to vent.

That's OK....Vent away !!...


Ray

[Joe K]

Issues like this also show how easy it is for politicians to sell their soul for political advancement.  The Governor of Florida, Charlie Crist is gay and has had a partner for decades.  To think that he would turn on his own community, all for political aspirations is disgusting.  He signed one of those petitions in 2006 and now says he will avoid the issue.  Too late, you already whored yourself for the Republican party, so you will be a prime candidate for president in 2012.  What a spineless man he has shown himself to be.

[Robert]

  this is called a wedge issue.  It's what the Republicans did 4 years ago and got Bus re-elected.  In most of the key states where the stakes were high, the marriage initiative was on the ballot.  It shows that people do not vote for what's best for them.  You could be laid off due to out-sourcing, medical bills out the kazoo and losing your house due to predatory lending practices yet you'll still vote Republican because they tell you that being gay is a sin.

It's sad.  And it makes me sick that Rove/bush and others take advantage of it.  That is called predatory electioneering.

robert

[randym431]

Hi Ray
You got me going this morning. One of my hot topic issues (and I'm not alone, I know).

This whole issue is dumb-ing down Americans. Like challenging science, global warming and stem cell research.
What should bother people most, is this places America out of step with the rest of the world.
A country that fears science, gays, truth and reason, can hardly survive in todays world, and will self destruct.

Even here in iOwa, our democrat gov talks about a gay marriage ban. He knows this talk equals votes and support.
You don’t even want to listen to local talk radio here, it drives you crazy. And you start to think you ARE crazy.

Even Obama has major problems with gay marriage, and prefers civil unions, like THATS ever going to happen.

If all this gay marriage ban stuff continues, America will just fall further and further behind in realistic world.
And how will we compete? Well we wont. We can not.

My 18 year old nephew just came out. He has a boyfriend. He can not tell his dad because his dad would reject him.
And his mother is a huge Huckabee fan. Its like they all live in some pretend make believe world where gays are the root of all evil.

Sometimes I feel I live in a world of 4 year olds, with no attention span, and easily tricked.
 

[BT65]

Sometimes I feel I live in a world of 4 year olds, with no attention span, and easily tricked.
 

Honey, you just have to stay one up on people like that.

[J.R.E.]

You don’t even want to listen to local talk radio here, it drives you crazy. And you start to think you ARE crazy.

Randy,

I know exactly what you mean ! Talk radio, is just as bad down here !! We have a few of them here on WFLA, that will drive you nuts...


Ray