POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: bradyhawkes on December 14, 2007, 01:43:41 pm
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2 weeks ago had a one night stand. No names, phone numbers or history.
For my part, on her, there was a lot of fingering, some oral(cunnilingus) to add moisture to the event, and everything else was protected.
1) Is HIV impossible in this situation or should there be a test?
2) Reading many sites, including this one, there is the PCR-DNA test. For piece of mind, when does that test become accurate?
Thanks in advance
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Brady,
There is absolutely no need for you to be tested over this sexual encounter. Protected sex is just that, protected. And no, you can't contract HIV from playing sticky fingers.
I would advise you against PCR DNA testing in the strongest possible terms. PCR DNA testing is not approved for diagnostic purposes. It returns an unacceptably high rate of false positive results.
Please take the time to read our Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) and follow the links to our Lessons to learn more about how HIV is and is not transmitted.
MtD
/edited for a small typo/
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Thanks for the reply.
What about the oral portion of the event? I have never thought about going down on a girl before but I usually knew them for longer then an hour.
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It doesn't matter how long you've known the girl, cunnilingus is not a risk for HIV transmission. Seriously kid, in terms of HIV you're good to go.
MtD
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More of my meaning was that normally, I am more carefull but got caught up in the moment.
So to clearify, touching and licking are fine? You get in trouble when you use the same needle or penile penitration without a condom.
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Touching and licking is just fine Brady. You're right, fucking without condoms or sharing works is a no-no.
Regards,
MtD
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Thanks for the info.
On follow up??
Has anybody ever come back and say they tested positive from a sexual session as described?
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Brady,
There has never been a proven case of infection resulting from going down on a woman. You won't be the first.
Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.
The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.
Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect.
Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.
The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.
The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholin's_gland), located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.
So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.
Keep using those condoms for anal or vaginal intecourse and you will avoid hiv infection. Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence.
Ann
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One last little hitch.
This weekend, I have decided to move in with my longtime girlfriend. Go monogamous, have unprotected sex, etc.
The only thing between my last checkup and now is this one time event.
Is there anything stopping me from moving in? (I would prefer not to tell her about it, why mess up a good thing?)
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Brady,
The two of you BOTH need to be tested, not only for hiv, but also for all the other STIs BEFORE you stop using condoms.
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
Although you do NOT need to test over this one incident, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Ann
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Ann, thanks for the reply.
We both went to the doctor recently for a checkup with no issues.
There have been no other incidents since the checkup.
I am tired of playing the field and decided it is time to focus and settle down.
Thanks again for your help.
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Sometimes the Internet gets the better of you.
Do your answers change at all if say during the oral (or fingering) Syphilis or Herpes was contracted?
Thanks
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No. Even if you acquired those other STDs it doesn't change the details as to how HIV is transmitted. And it wouldn't mean that you automatically could expect to be HIV positive as well.
The internet only gets the better of you when you continue surfing it to look for misinformation to feed your worst fears. Lay off of the internet. It can be bad for your health. No kidding.
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As many people has probably done on this site, I went against your advice and took the PCR-DNA test at 18 days out.
It came out negative.
I assume it means I am fine as you said.
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I hope it cost you an arm and a leg.
MtD
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I can appreciate your reply and please know that your consoling has gone a long way to help. Of course there are the uneducated (on my part) thoughts of what if.
I fear the thought of having licked (with my tongue) something that could be deadly.
Further, I can understand your position about 3 months testing being conclusive and that false positives make the PCR-DNA test unreliable.
Given that the result was negative after 18 days (and that I had a yearly checkup test, ELISA, in November that was Negative) can the DNA test be relied on?
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That test was never intended to be used for diagnostic purposes. Your having tested negative doesn't change that.
From what you have reported about yourself and your gf, there wasn't any need for you to test further. You are HIV negative.
As far as I am concerned your additional negative result is meaningless since there was no need to test. You decided to indulge your unfounded anxiety and wasted your money.
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Maybe OCD or some level of guilt but I went today and tested negative 5 weeks 6 days after the initial session above.
Is it true that most if not all will test positive in this time frame and there is really nothing to worry about unless I was on cancer drugs or had some other immune disorder?
Thanks
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Brady,
Re-read your thread. You didn't need to test in the first place and your six week negative isn't going to change.
Ann
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Guys I am in a real pickle here.
I had pretty much bought all of your advice (plus the testing from above) that I have nothing to worry about.
But here I am 7 weeks out with a a sore throat that I have had for 6 weeks. Been to the doctor a couple times with no relief from Antibiotics.
I went for a seven week test today (41 days) and it came out negative. The counselor said the CDC states I should come back in 5 weeks but he wouldn't loose sleep over it.
Do I need to go back in 5 weeks?
Has anybody here (or wherever else you may console) ever gone from - to + after 7 weeks?
Thanks for your help and support
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You didn't have a risk to begin with and didn't need to test, let alone getting retested.
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I intended to say 48 days with the 7 week test.
What I was trying to establish is it like less then 1% test + after 7 weeks or 10%?
If I had nothing to worry about to begin with and the vast majority means 99.5% test positive before 7 weeks then statistically I will leave it alone.
It may be unrational fear but the lack of acknowledgement from others that oral on a woman is no risk just leaves me in fear.
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We have given you the facts. It's up to you to overcome your fear. You did NOT have a risk.
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Nothing we say to you seems to matter very much. You've repeatedly been told you weren't at risk and that testing was not/is not necessary. This is not an HIV situation no matter how much you continue to insist that it is.
Just as a matter of general information I will mention the average time to seroconversion is 22 days. All but the very smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after a genuine risk. Note I said "genuine risk," which is not what your incident was.
If you continue to come back with more of this unwarranted concern you're going to get yourself a time out. We've told you all that we can tell you. We're not willing to respond to every twist and turn you come up with when there wasn't any risk to begin with.
Maybe it's time for you to see a counselor or other professional to discuss why you are holding on to this fear. Really.
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Thanks for the additional information.
I am trying to hear what you are saying and convince myself that you are right, that I do not need to be tested any further. That is my problem to deal with.
From an education standpoint. If there was a genuine risk, which there was not in this situation, you say most people with test positive by week 4-6.
Then for a genuine risk does a negative at week 7 point towards what is expected at week 12?
Thanks
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Brady,
For a genuine risk, a seven week negative is an excellent indication of a three month negative.
You didn't have a risk. You don't need further testing. You ARE hiv negative. Keep posting over this no-risk incident and you'll be given a time out. There's nothing more we can do for you here. No kidding.
Ann
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I hadn't thought much about this event since my last post but I came down with a massive illness this week.
Severe case of what seemed like food poisoning and lost 9 pounds over night. Since nobody I had dinner with that night fell ill and we all shared dishes at a Tapas place I had no idea what it could have been.
A day after I was compelled to go for a test at 10 weeks which came out Negative. Given that I had no risk as you said, I would have expected nothing less.
If I had, had a real risk, what are the chances that 10 weeks changes at 12 weeks?
Thanks
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Your illness has nothing to do with HIV, you were never at risk. If you are still ill and concerned, see your doctor.
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Like Rod I would say there's no chance your negative result is going to change.
Just because you haven't had whatever is going diagnosed doesn't by default mean it's about HIV. Especially when you haven't had a risk.
Get this squared away with your doctor. This is a not an HIV situation and we've done as much as we can do for you here.
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I wanted to check if anything has changed since I last posted here regarding the topic of this post?
Is fingering and cunnilingus still no risk?
I had a night out with the guys at a local club and things got a little out of control. Unknown girl with lots of fingering/fisting and oral (me-to her, cunnilingus).
This was a pre-wedding event and now have massive fear of being with my soon to be new wife?
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Our assessments are not going to change.
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Unlike last time. I only have a little more then a week until the wedding.
Is there any reason for me to speak up or should I just move on and forget all about this.
More to the point, can I have unprotected sex on my wedding night?
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Brady,
We always recommend that everyone should always test - both partners - before having unprotected intercourse.
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Nothing you have brought to this forum has been a risk for hiv infection. However, you and your intended would be wise to both have sexual health check ups before dispensing with the condoms.
Ann
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We both had checkups almost a year ago. Since then we have been living happily together.
This party night just got way out of control and now ironically, I am back where I was late last year only this time, in one week I will be on the beach getting married.
I am just trying to be sure I didn't really mess up what will be a great thing. To confirm then, there have been no new findings? Oral sex with a woman, fingering, etc is still risk free from HIV?
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To confirm then, there have been no new findings? Oral sex with a woman, fingering, etc is still risk free from HIV?
As you have been told cunnilingus and fingering are not risk factors for HIV transmission. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage.
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I posted about 6 weeks back about a night out with the guys at a local club and things got a little out of control. Unknown girl with lots of fingering/fisting and oral (me-to her, cunnilingus).
As mentioned I have since gotten married and now out of extreme guilt and worry can't get this out of my head. I feel like I am living a double life.
Our plan had always been to start trying for a family as soon as we were married. Next week starts the beginning of that trying process. I couldn't imagine sending forward anything I have contracted.
I went and had a work up done eight weeks (56 days) after it occured. The oral rapid HIV test came back negative. Can that test be 100% trusted.
Thanks for your patience and perseverance with the barrage of people that come through this site!!
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Reread all the replies that have been given to you. At no time was you ever at risk of contracting HIV in the situation you've provided.
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Brady,
Your negative result is not going to change. Nothing you brought to this forum has been a risk for hiv infection.
I take it you threw my advice out that you and your wife should have a sexual health check up together. I hope she's as hiv negative as you, mate.
Ann
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We had been to the doctor for full checkups a year ago when we moved in together. Since then we have not been apart. So if she caught something it would have been from casual surface contact.
After that last incident, I stayed away from everything and gave up what was once a pretty serious party life.
This bachelor party has my fears back in front of me. Alcohol and a bunch of naked women just do not go well together for me.
I knew that but still put myself in the middle of it. Luckily this time there was NO sexual intercourse just lapdances with these girls grinding on my face and I stupidly stuck my tongue out and started licking away and fingering like I had been dating the girl for years.
Thus, from the team here, which seem to be on top of this stuff more so then anyplace else on the internet, your assessment is that I have nothing to worry about? Eight week negative from this contact is golden??
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Nothing you did at the bachelor party put you at risk for HIV transmission. Period.
Even though you may not be planning to stray again, keep in mind that mixing excessive alcohol and casual sex is a very dangerous combination.
As of now nothing you have reported suggests you can't go ahead an start working on making that family happen. Good luck and enjoy the process.
Cheers.
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Brady,
Yes, it's golden as you didn't have a risk in the first place.
Ok, so you're the former par-teh boy turned loving husband. You both tested together when you embarked on a committed relationship.
You had a fun night with some lap-dancers in the mean-time, where you couldn't control your tongue. You also let your fingers do the talking. No problem. You didn't stick your unprotected dick into anyone and nobody got their unprotected dick into your anus either. No problem. The only problem here is your feelings of guilt.
And by the way, So if she caught something it would have been from casual surface contact.
Um, no.
Sexually transmitted infections are NOT caught off environmental surfaces. The old adage of "I got it off a toilet seat" is pure bullshit.
You're good to go. If you feel the urge to seek sexual companionship outside your marriage again, as long as you're using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, you'll be a-ok where hiv is concerned. Really. I don't want you to infect your wife anymore than you do, mate. It's the truth of the matter.
It's time you got on with your life and enjoyed your wife. If you feel guilty, do something to make her feel special and let it go. OK? Good. I don't expect to see you around here again.
Ann
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Thanks for your responses. Ann your words were very elegant (I assume "couldn't control your tongue" is code for cunnilingus).
We are both a little older and excited for the end result however, I can't put this issue out of my head. I wouldn't have even worried about any of this a couple years ago but now I am guilt ridden with "what ifs."
I know this isn't your specialty but I am sure you have fielded it before. . .how do you put something like this out of your head and move on (I can only buy so many roses before I become suspicious)?
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Brady,
We can't help you with that here. If you really cannot move on with your life, I suggest you seek out some one on one therapy.
Forget the whatiffs. You didn't have a risk and you tested hiv negative because you ARE hiv negative.
You do know about our time-out policy, don't you? You're heading for one.
Ann
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Ann/Andy,
Thanks for your help.
I took a Homeaccess at 9 weeks and it was negative.
The baby making has begun. This is an assisted process, so the doctor took me and did his stuff. He then told us to have as much sex as possible.
Here's to hoping all the science is right :)
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You may not be planning to stray. If you do then just make sure you always without exceptions use condoms for intercourse. Otherwise quite hanging around HIV-related websites that only make you worry needlessly.
Good luck with the babymaking process and getting on with your life. Now, begone!
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To ease my fears I am going to have a 12 week (86 day) test tomorrow. As you have told me it will be negative and I need to see it for myself to move on.
I am currently fighting what is believed to be a sinus infection. I am taking antibiotics, have a massive sore throat and drainage.
Would any of this have any impact on an OraQuick test more so presenting a false positive?
Sorry to bother you again but I need closure on something I have convinced myself I might have.
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No it will not interfere with your test. As you've been told you were never at risk.
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No, none of your concerns would skewer your test result. Which we do expect will be negative.
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As you said, it was negative. A little more clearity now.
One last question and I am pretty sure your answer is no risk for anything but with my current state of mind, I am not sure up from down.
I had a normal massage the other day however, she did ummm, touch my penis as she was moving around. From an HIV standpoint I am sure there is no risk but is there any risk of any other STDs from a massage (non errotic).
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Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.
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Again, that latest was a no-risk incident. Give it up and get on with your life, no kidding.
Cheers.