"Free Aids Meds"

[Almost2late]

http://yourhealth.asiaone.com/content/free-anti-retrovirals-all-hiv-thai-govt

If the Thai government can do this for it's people, why isn't the super wealthy USofA doing it for its own  ... GREED!!!

[Irish Eyes]

I'm in Southern California and pay zero.

[Almost2late]

I'm in Southern California and pay zero.

Yeah me too, but some here have to jump through hoops to get on meds.. and some folks just give up... I get mine through insurance and co-pay assistance, $0

[buginme2]

Yeah me too, but some here have to jump through hoops to get on meds.. and some folks just give up... I get mine through insurance and co-pay assistance, $0

Where are you getting your data?

I receive my meds for free, and I'm on triumeq not some out of date med that's no longer used in the us.

[mecch]

http://yourhealth.asiaone.com/content/free-anti-retrovirals-all-hiv-thai-govt

If the Thai government can do this for it's people, why isn't the super wealthy USofA doing it for its own  ... GREED!!!

Greed is in there in the mix but all alone it doesn't explain the US situation.

Rich countries pay the "rich country" price for medicine. US pays top top top of the heap first world prices.
Also, many rich countries must respect intellectual property ---- e.g. copyright on drugs.
Also, the US, unlike many countries, rich and non rich, is stills struggling to vote for and establish universal health coverage.
Finally, what gen antiviral are going to be available in thailand?  And from what pharma sources.

Also, thailand is not poor.

Finally many countries poorer than the US might achieve more universal treatment of its HIV+ population, because of a mix of the above....   

So to reduce it to greed is simplistic.

[mecch]

Nobody anywhere is receiving "free drugs".  Though any one person may not be paying out of pocket.

Someone is buying drugs and distributing them, at various costs to the final consumer.  From free, to "affordable", to astronomical.

[mecch]

Swiss universities have a very minimal cost to students.  The cost to the taxpayer is equivalent to the cost of educating one higher ed student in many countries.

Services like education and medical care are NEVER free. Or very rarely. As far as I perceive it.

[mecch]

The US government has recently funded almost 20 billion a year to other countries for HIV/AIDS.   That is the US tax payer (individual and corporate).
Throw that into the mix when you talk about "greed".

[xinyuan]

It also helps that the Thai government has universal healthcare.

Gives me a headache simply to think about the US's system (rather, systems).

[buginme2]

If you took a poll here and asked how much people in the u.s. paid for their hiv meds you would have a lot of $0, and a few higher who have private insurance depending on the plan. 

You may encounter an individual who is outside of current care.

If you consider perpfar and other aid programs many countries who supply free hiv meds are doing so because of the u.s.

The us healthcare system is far from perfect.  But this kind of rhetoric is bs.  Especially when the op says he gets his meds for free. 

Really

[Almost2late]

Mecch, we all ain't college edumacated.. like you said nothing is free but you know what I meant..

Where are you getting your data?

I receive my meds for free, and I'm on triumeq not some out of date med that's no longer used in the us.

The care for hiv is not reaching everyone in the US.. If it were more cut-&-dry in the US like free meds for all pozzies without the red tape might be a better idea..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/southern-states-are-now-epicenter-of-hivaids-in-the-us/2014/09/22/9ac1525a-39e6-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

[xinyuan]

If you took a poll here and asked how much people in the u.s. paid for their hiv meds you would have a lot of $0, and a few higher who have private insurance depending on the plan. 

You may encounter an individual who is outside of current care.

If you consider perpfar and other aid programs many countries who supply free hiv meds are doing so because of the u.s.

The us healthcare system is far from perfect.  But this kind of rhetoric is bs.  Especially when the op says he gets his meds for free. 

Really

Agree. I pay $0 myself.

But it'd also be nice not to live in a system where fear of losing or switching insurance exists.

I already get anxiety attacks when my meds are about to run out. My insurance has refused to let me build up a stash.

[buginme2]

Mecch, we all ain't college edumacated.. like you said nothing is free but you know what I meant..  The care for hiv is not reaching everyone in the US.. If it were more cut-&-dry in the US like free meds for all pozzies without the red tape might be a better idea..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/southern-states-are-now-epicenter-of-hivaids-in-the-us/2014/09/22/9ac1525a-39e6-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

Absolutely,I acknowledge that there are people left out of the current system.

Agree. I pay $0 myself.

But it'd also be nice not to live in a system where fear of losing or switching insurance exists.

I already get anxiety attacks when my meds are about to run out. My insurance has refused to let me build up a stash.

I get anxiety to about losing insurance and care and all that.  I think we all do.

I suppose the government could give us all free atripla or azt containing regimens.  Those suck.  I don't want that and you probably don't either.

There is no perfect system

[Irish Eyes]

Nobody anywhere is receiving "free drugs".  Though any one person may not be paying out of pocket.

Someone is buying drugs and distributing them, at various costs to the final consumer.  From free, to "affordable", to astronomical.

But in general the individual is concerned solely upon how the cost may directly affect him/herself and not the grander scheme of things.

If ADAP is even willing to cover my meds and ACA health insurance premium, they are more than welcome to.

The way I see it, is I have been paying almost 40% in corporate taxes plus 30+% in personal income tax for the last 20+years.

I realise one has nothing to do with the other (i.e. paying taxes and free medication etc.) but something's got to give and I can't afford to pay $3k per month for meds and labs.

[Almost2late]

Absolutely,I acknowledge that there are people left out of the current system.

Then if you agree then why say its BS.. One day I may need to get public assistance and have to go thru hell just to get meds or it maybe you.

[buginme2]

Then if you agree then why say its BS.. One day I may need to get public assistance and have to go thru hell just to get meds or it maybe you.

Because you say it as of thats the norm.   It's not.  There are very few people in the u.s. who go without hiv meds.  Very few.  There were more in the last few years when some  states(a handful)  had adap waiting lists but those have all disappeared. 

I don't agree with your thread at all.  It's not well researched and tries to make a very complicated issue as being simply GREED as you say.

[buginme2]

No system is perfect.

Take the uk we consider them to have universal healthcare yet they delay hiv treatment based on cd4 count.  Many countries delay treatment.

The u.s. begins treatment regardless of cd4 counts.  Since this is coupled with a public health strategy hiv meds are subsidized more.

Many countries that delay treatment is due to $$.   Some delay until cd4 is 200 some  350 some 500.  It's all based on cash.

There is no utopia.

India provides free antivirals.  You have to wait till your cd4 falls (200 or 350 can't remember) and you get azt and.nevirapine.  woohoo no thanks

[mecch]

Mecch, we all ain't college edumacated.. like you said nothing is free but you know what I meant..  The care for hiv is not reaching everyone in the US.. If it were more cut-&-dry in the US like free meds for all pozzies without the red tape might be a better idea..

I knew what you meant and was was explaining why it was a simple comment that doesn't start to address a complex issue of what are "human right."   And who pays?  This insistence on "free" is an illusion.

Safe drinking water - not free.
Primary and secondary education - not free.
Daycare so women can work. - not free.
Safe public transportation, safe roads - not free.
Enough higher education to meet the present and future needs of the country - not free.
Shelter- not free
Medical care and treatment - not free.
Information distribution and an independent press - not free.

So whats all this talk about free this or that?

In my opinion its a result of history and culture that things are not perfect in the USA. There is a percentage of the voting bloc and the government who consider social welfare antithetical to American cultural values.  So ironically, HIV/AIDS funding for the "poor nations of Africa" for example is good "christian charity" but universal health care has been blocked by state republican governments, most recently with ACA, for example, because its "encouraging a culture of dependency."   Its "greed" only very tangentially, in a very grand perspective, because there isn't progressive US income tax taxation to have sufficient revenues to pay for universal coverage at current US prices for health care. Also, some american people really don't care about the poor and sick, and/or judge them.  Thats cruelty, hatred, and/or prejudice, bias - not especially greed.  The same (small group) might just like to cut US aid to foreign countries, as well, by the way.   Though it seems perfectly possible to hold seemingly contradictory beliefs. Helping the "poor" in Haiti, for example - christian charity. Helping the suffering in the USofA?  Handouts.

[Dachshund]

I knew what you meant and was was explaining why it was a simple comment that doesn't start to address a complex issue of what is "human right."   And who pays?  This insistence on "free" is an illusion.

Safe drinking water - not free.
Primary and secondary education - not free.
Daycare so women can work. - not free.
Safe public transportation, safe roads - not free.
Enough higher education to meet the present and future needs of the country - not free.
Shelter- not free
Medical care and treatment - not free.
Information distribution and an independent press - not free.

So whats all this talk about free this or that?

Unfortunately, your ponderous replies - free.

[mecch]

block me - problem solved.

[xinyuan]

mecch and buginme2 are putting out 2 very good points.

Universal healthcare necessitates a price in whichever country implements it.

Even if we did have universal healthcare in the US, it would likely come with conditions. Conditions on which meds would be given, for example.

No system is perfect. But I'll take one that works and seeks to improve.


Dachshund, mecch provides very valid alternative viewpoints. Presentation's a bit rough, but it's an acquired taste.

[buginme2]

Unfortunately, your ponderous replies - free.

We get it, you don't like meech.

block me - problem solved.

For real.  Enough already

[Dachshund]

Dachshund, mecch provides very valid alternative viewpoints. Presentation's a bit rough, but it's an acquired taste.

LOL. I'll give you that.

[xinyuan]

Also, some american people really don't care about the poor and sick, and/or judge them.  Thats cruelty, hatred, and/or prejudice, bias - not especially greed.  The same (small group) might just like to cut US aid to foreign countries, as well, by the way.   Though it seems perfectly possible to hold seemingly contradictory beliefs. Helping the "poor" in Haiti, for example - christian charity. Helping the suffering in the USofA?  Handouts.

I work in a system that treats the poor and sick and undocumented. I believe in giving them chances. I will work with them as I can. I even spend time educating them on their options. And I've seen many flourish and do well.

But what am I to do when a person's "lost" his/her medications again (really, sold it on the underground market)? If the only thing that works for them is Norco or Vicodin? Who find that a carton of cigarette or a few ounces of crack is more important than a bottle of aspirin or a month of ART's?

Just as there are people who will faithfully adhere to their treatment and follow-ups, there are those who take advantage and abuse it for their own gain.

I believe in more practical approaches. I do not believe in siding with a purely conservative or a purely liberal approach.

[mecch]

Ah shucks thanks!  I sure can be a blowhard but I don't want to be a killjoy at the cocktail. Sorry. I enjoy unpacking questions and issues and get carried away.

[bmancanfly]

I don't see Mecch's viewpoint as "alternative" at all. 

There is no such thing as free healthcare or free meds.  If someone says they want "free" meds,  they are really saying they want some one else to pay the costs  for them.  Or at least to be detached enough from the payment scheme for it to seem free.  But in the end someone is paying.

@buginme2,
I wish you would stop trashing all older drugs that you deem to "suck".  Lots of people,  including many on this website,  still take Atripla and Nevirapine for e.g. and don't consider them to "suck".  Just because a drug has been around for a while doesn't necessarily mean that it is bad.  Some people may have had problems but not all.  I think it is really bad form to talk about still valid med combos that people here are still taking in that context.    Just because a drug is new doesn't mean it has no side effects,  some of which may not yet be known and just because a drug is older doesn't mean it has no place as a treatment option for some.

How do you think people who are taking these drugs (some for quite a while without problems)  feel when you broadly determine that the drugs they are on "suck"? 

On a personal note,  I've taken quite a few different HIV drugs over the years and the only one that I ever took that had zero side effects was Nevirapine.  I recently starting taking Tivicay and have had more side effects from it than I ever did with Nevirapine - go figure. 

I don't say this to bitch-slap you in any way,  but just ask that you be more mindful of how you talk about this.

Sorry for the derail.





 

[xinyuan]

I don't see Mecch's viewpoint as "alternative" at all. 

We don't disagree on his viewpoint here. I was referring to his posts collectively. His views aren't exactly the same as mine, which aren't exactly the same as yours. Hence, "alternative."

If we all didn't have alternative viewpoints, it'd be a very boring world.

Just because a drug has been around for a while doesn't necessarily mean that it is bad.  Some people may have had problems but not all.  I think it is really bad form to talk about still valid med combos that people here are still taking in that context.    Just because a drug is new doesn't mean it has no side effects,  some of which may not yet be known and just because a drug is older doesn't mean it has no place as a treatment option for some.

I have firsthand experience with Stribild being awful for me. So, your comment about newer drugs is very true personally for me.

We're blessed be discussing so many different drug options in this day and age.

That being said, we should always be vigilant over side effects in current drugs. Many (not necessarily you) have reported issues with Atripla, and I will not downplay the increased risk of depression and suicide from the efavirenz (Sustiva) component. The moderators here sure haven't (see Sticky). Many have also expressed concern over the osteoporosis and kidney issues with Truvada (which I'm on). There's not a single drug without some kind of side effect.

They don't always happen in everyone, but their risks are all too real and shouldn't be ignored.

We should still continue to look forward to newer options. And encourage research and industry to do so.

[ChavinKnight]

No worries...we will eventually have single payer healthcare in this country.  It is long overdue.  We are the laughing stock of the free world on this issue.  There were so many abuses in the insurance industry that the road to the ACA was literally paved in gold. 

And it is greed....so-called Christian charity comes with a tax write off.  Do not believe for one second that charity would exist if there were not a financial incentive.  It is not simple giving for the sake of giving.  Sick people consume more healthcare resources.  So be it.  Roughly the same amount should be paid for everyone such that all can receive the care they need.  Remove abusive administrator salaries from the mix, corrupt pricing manipulation, and payouts to shareholders, and we get a workable, equitable system where everyone benefits. 

Read "Bitter Pill" from Time magazine....

[buginme2]

@buginme2,
I wish you would stop trashing all older drugs that you deem to "suck".  Lots of people,  including many on this website,  still take Atripla and Nevirapine for e.g. and don't consider them to "suck".  Just because a drug has been around for a while doesn't necessarily mean that it is bad.  Some people may have had problems but not all.  I think it is really bad form to talk about still valid med combos that people here are still taking in that context.    Just because a drug is new doesn't mean it has no side effects,  some of which may not yet be known and just because a drug is older doesn't mean it has no place as a treatment option for some.

How do you think people who are taking these drugs (some for quite a while without problems)  feel when you broadly determine that the drugs they are on "suck"? 

On a personal note,  I've taken quite a few different HIV drugs over the years and the only one that I ever took that had zero side effects was Nevirapine.  I recently starting taking Tivicay and have had more side effects from it than I ever did with Nevirapine - go figure. 

I don't say this to bitch-slap you in any way,  but just ask that you be more mindful of how you talk about this.

Sorry for the derail.

Don't forget Azt.  I think Azt sucks too.

These drugs were useful and life saving during their time.  However, in the current time with the drug options available I'm sorry but they suck.  Taking a drug such as Azt that's known to cause disfiguring lipo issues and efavirenz with its cns issues sucks.

If you look at the context in which I made this statement it was during the argument about governments providing drugs for free to its residents.  Sure they provide free drugs, but most commonly it's azt, nevirapine, or efavirenz.

Just FYI.  I think Truvada, norvir, cobosistat, and abacavir also suck.  But to a less degree. 


What gets me is how this thread started as a big poo poo that the US healthcare system sucks.  I agree it's got issue but when u compare that most people in the us get drugs such as complera stribild and tivicay for free and in Thailand and others in which the op was making a comparison get act nevirapine and efavirenz for free how is it Thailand comes out on top?

[Almost2late]

No worries...we will eventually have single payer healthcare in this country.  It is long overdue.  We are the laughing stock of the free world on this issue.  There were so many abuses in the insurance industry that the road to the ACA was literally paved in gold. 

And it is greed....so-called Christian charity comes with a tax write off.  Do not believe for one second that charity would exist if there were not a financial incentive.  It is not simple giving for the sake of giving.  Sick people consume more healthcare resources.  So be it.  Roughly the same amount should be paid for everyone such that all can receive the care they need.  Remove abusive administrator salaries from the mix, corrupt pricing manipulation, and payouts to shareholders, and we get a workable, equitable system where everyone benefits. 

Read "Bitter Pill" from Time magazine....

Read it, thanks, no surprise... And some doctors cheat too, I got a letter from my insurance company after a visit to the ENT that had a breakdown of charges for the visit and a charge for a "surgical procedure" but I had no surgery during the visit.. Although my co-pay was not different, my insurance company paid the ENT for the alleged surgery... On one hand I'd like to report the error cause it's the right thing to do on the other I feel fuck the insurance company thats been giving me hard time filling my scripts after so many years of hardly using it.

[drewm]

When I was diagnosed with AIDS in 2010, I was in the hospital with PCP pneumonia and was at deaths door. I did NOT have in insurance. Between the social workers at St. Johns Hospital, Houston's Legacy Community Health Services, Ryan White, ADAP and Texas Medicaid, I never once went without the services I needed. The healthcare system in the United States catches a lot of hell but it did not and has not failed me.

[bmancanfly]

Another Atripla success story.   

[mitch777]

I wonder if anyone here saw the expose on drug pricing on 60 Minutes tonight. It was disturbing to say the least. Doctors fighting back over ridiculous prices with little if any benefit. Greed is alive and well here in America and no politician has the guts to resolve the immorality of it all. Chachtiing$$$.

Well, I am a poor speller on the sound of the cash register ringing but you get my point.

[buginme2]

I'm on the west coast so it's on in an hour and a half.  I'll watch or DVR it.  Sounds interesting

[mitch777]

I'm on the west coast so it's on in an hour and a half.  I'll watch or DVR it.  Sounds interesting

It's worth the watch.

[Almost2late]

What gets me is how this thread started as a big poo poo that the US healthcare system sucks.  I agree it's got issue but when u compare that most people in the us get drugs such as complera stribild and tivicay for free and in Thailand and others in which the op was making a comparison get act nevirapine and efavirenz for free how is it Thailand comes out on top?

I agree, at present the US isn't so bad with the meds But when you live in the south you gotta worry.. An election here and there, and your outta poo poo luck..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/10/06/states-not-expanding-medicaid-hobble-the-fight-against-hivaids/

[buginme2]

I agree, at present the US isn't so bad with the meds But when you live in the south you gotta worry.. An election here and there, and your outta poo poo luck..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/10/06/states-not-expanding-medicaid-hobble-the-fight-against-hivaids/

Your right

I forget that we all don't live the same United States.

I watched a documentary on hiv and the south awhile back.  Quite distressing.


You

[Almost2late]

Your right

I forget that we all don't live the same United States.

I watched a documentary on hiv and the south awhile back.  Quite distressing.


You

No, I haven't seen it.. Give me the name and I will surely watch it.. I did see the one about the Gays in Russia, man that was effed up what they do to them over there.

[leatherman]

I watched a documentary on hiv and the south awhile back.  Quite distressing.

a few films (personal stories) are also out. deep south is hoping to make the rounds again for World AIDS Day. This films follows several people (including Kathy Hiers from AIDS Alabama) dealing with HIV in the South. Wilhemina's War will be out soon. It's about the very real struggles in rural SC trying to get access to care.

[metekrop]

http://yourhealth.asiaone.com/content/free-anti-retrovirals-all-hiv-thai-govt

If the Thai government can do this for it's people, why isn't the super wealthy USofA doing it for its own  ... GREED!!!

Is ADAP in the USA is not free HIV medication??