POZ Community Forums
HIV Prevention and Testing => Do I Have HIV? => Topic started by: steve0007 on December 11, 2006, 09:06:41 am
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Hi,
I am having some difficulty getting to grips with some advice given on the site. When I read the forums I see the advice for a man worried about the risks in receiving a blowjob as being " nobody has ever gotten infected this way and you won't be the first".
But when I read the lessons there is talk about a theoretical risk and also a statistical quote of infection of 1 in 20.000 episodes with an infected partner.
Some might say that 1 in 20000 is so insignificant that it is essentially zero but if you think about how many blowjobs there must be around the world every day then there still must be a shedload of guys out there having been infected in this way.
My concern...
Just over 4 weeks ago I had a sexual encounter with a lady in a country which is known as having a medium to large amount of HIV infection within the adult population. She was definately NOT a sex worker. She performed oral sex on me twice in a matter of hours and both times she swallowed my semen. She wanted to have vaginal sex without a condom but I refused and since I did not have one to hand we did not do it, protected or otherwise. Obviously her preference for sex without a condom set off some alarm bells for me but since all we had was oral sex I didn't think any more about it. ..... until today !
During the night I woke with a really sore throat and it has got worse throughout the day with white patches ( like ulcers) clearly visible on the back of my throat. My legs feel heavy and I have a bit of a sore head although definately no fever. One thing to throw in is that I had a flu vaccination on Saturday.
Bearing in mind my concern about conflicting advice and then this happening 30 days after unprotected oral do you think I am justified in being worried ?
p.s. I know that I was definately HIV negative before this because I donate blood regularly.
Thank you !
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But when I read the lessons there is talk about a theoretical risk and also a statistical quote of infection of 1 in 20.000 episodes with an infected partner.
Some might say that 1 in 20000 is so insignificant that it is essentially zero but if you think about how many blowjobs there must be around the world every day then there still must be a shedload of guys out there having been infected in this way.
Steve,
Go back and read that Transmission Lesson again. You obviously missed the bit where it said,
Making personal decisions about unprotected sexual activity using these numbers is not recommended. For starters, these numbers are based on assumptions and guesses, not actual evidence of HIV transmission. Second, even if the researchers are right – that there is a 1 in 20,000 chance of being infected with HIV via unprotected insertive oral sex with someone known to be positive – many experts argue that this number is close enough to zero as to not be concerned about it at all.
That number was only included in the lesson because it is easy to find references to this on the internet and people kept bringing it to this forum to ask about it. The study that produced that number is old and has been discredited - because basically, they made their numbers up. Pulled them out of thin air.
Getting a blowjob is absolutely not a risk for hiv infection. The only grey area where oral sex is concerned is in GIVING a blowjob. We now know that it is rare to become infected with hiv through giving a blowjob and unheard of for being sucked or having cunnilingus.
There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us two things. One, condoms are very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission. Two, oral sex is much lower risk than previously believed. We now have the evidence that oral sex is a very low risk activity where hiv transmission is concerned.
You were smart to refuse to have intercourse without a condom. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
You did not have a risk of hiv infection through getting a blowjob. See your doctor if your throat continues to bother you, but it has nothing to do with hiv. We're in the middle of cold and flu season, and you should keep that in mind.
Ann
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There has never been a case in the 25+ years of HIV, that anyone has gotten infected by receiving a blowjob. It is not a risk of transmission.
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Thanks - both of you.
I do understand your points and in a sane state of mind would agree with you.
Just that right now I get flu-like symptoms ( probably is the flu! ) exactly 4 weeks after. Also there are some respectable site out there that do say there is a low risk. Well you know that "low risk and no risk" translates effectively into "You are infected and You aren't infected" when you are stressed out and worried about HIV.... :-\
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Steve,
A blowjob translates into "you aren't infected" in the real world.
Ann
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A blowjob translates into "you aren't infected" in the real world.
LOL thanks for the smile !
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Hi again,
Sorry for bothering you again !
I just can't get this theoretical risk thing out of my head. It is theoretically possible to get hit by lightening twice - it is very unlikely but it has happened to some people.... so in that case a theoretical risk becomes a documented risk.
So suspend disbelief and say that I may have been infected can anyone tell me if the following could be symptoms of primay infection :
4 weeks after exposure..... very sore throat lasting for two/three days. Heavy feeling in legs and arms for same period. No fever or night sweats or rashes...
Basically would my sore throat still be with me and would I have had fever,rash and other things going on at the same time....
Sorry again but I need a bit of convincing that this is just a horrible coincidence.
Thanks !
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Steve we don't suspend facts and we don't do symptoms. HIV has no specific symptoms. If you are to overwhelmed, just test and collect your negative results.
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OK I see where you are coming from but can you just answer this....
Is a sore throat or any other stand alone symptom the kind of thing that you would possibly see after 4 weeks of infection ? Or is ARS normally a whole bunch of symptoms together. ie. sore throat with fever and other things ?
Cheers !
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steve,
Different people react in different ways. Some people become so ill they end up hospitalised, while others notice no illness whatsoever.
The ONLY way to know your hiv status is through testing.
You did NOT become infected with hiv through getting a blowjob. If you can't come to grips with that, this isn't the place to deal with your anxiety. Try counseling instead.
Ann
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OK ann but why do they talk about theoretical risk and then say it has never and will never happen...?
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When scientists describe the risk of transmitting an infectious disease, like HIV, the term “theoretical risk” is often used. Very simple, “theoretical risk” means that passing an infection from one person to another is possible, even though there may not yet be any actual documented cases. “Theoretical risk” is not the same as likelihood. In other words, stating that HIV infection is “theoretically possible” does not necessarily mean it is likely to happen –only that it might. Documented risk, on the other hand, is used to describe transmission that has actually occurred, been investigated, and documented in the scientific literature.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/Facts/oralsex.pdf
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Thanks Rod.
I do understand what you say ( by the way the link doesn't work ) just that if someone is concerned that they may be at risk then they automatically believe that if something can theoretically happen then it will do so in them. OK you say that no-one has ever been infected this way but that there is the possibility that it may occur - therefore stressed our worrier ( me in this case) puts all their fears in the one basket....
namely the "I bet I'm the first" one.
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Hi again,
I had put all this behind me but I now have a moral dilemma.....
I took your advice and decided that there was no point in testing because I did not have an exposure. well I am a blood donor and I have been advised that it is now time to go into my nearest centre to donate. I would never use this as a way of testing after a risky encounter but my concerns have surfaced again about the above.....
I would never live with myself if I selfishly donated my infected blood into someone else. Sooooo what do I do ? My risk is mentioned above - you discounted the risk. Shall I just go ahead and donate anyway ? My (non) risk was over 3 months ago.
I am in the UK so I suppose my donation will be checked anyway ??? Thoughts please .... ???
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You are not serious are you? Your blood if infected getting into someone else would be like us trying to walk in off the streets into the vaults of Fort Knox. You didn't have a risk so go give blood. Should you have a positive test and the cause is hiv antibodies then you have not been truthful with us my man. Go give blood.
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Hi Rod,
I have been truthful. My only risk was that described above.
My doubts all surfaced because of the sore throat etc. that came along exactly four weeks after the (absolutely fantastic ;D ) blowjob that she gave me.
Now I am planning to give blood but obviously that stress that I managed to put to one side is returning a bit.
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The flu like symptoms could very well have been caused by the flu vaccine. As you know the flu vaccine is actually WEAKEND flu virus, so they actually put a virus INTO your system unlike your blowjob where no virus was inserted directly into your bloodstream.
You are clear my man.
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Steve,
You could always go have a rapid hiv test done before you donate - so you can see the negative results for your own eyes before you donate. You don't need to do a rapid test for any reason other than your own peace of mind.
Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection. Never has been, never will be.
Ann
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Thanks Guys
I absolutely do not believe that I have the virus now.
Even if I did had it I still would do everything in my power not to pass it on - obviously some people don't care but I couldn't live with that on my conscience.... I suppose that is where my questions of today come from !
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Hi everyone,
I am a bit concerned about a relationship that I am getting myself into.
The girl recently split with her husband and I know that she has been sexually active during the last few months with other people - as is her right.
My concern is that I do not know if she has been practising safe sex or not so I have therefore to assume that she is HIV pos. Reason behind that is that until results prove otherwise then we should conider new sex partners as such. I have a few concernes that I wanted to ask and hope that you can help.
Firstly I spoke with her last week and she had a sore throat and a temperature. Nothing untoward there though since most people get that at times. She was given anti-biotics and after a couple of days the symptoms went away. A couple of days after that though she told me that she had developed a very uncomfortable rash almost like welts stretching down her back and onto the tops of her legs. She told me that even with anti-histamine she still couldn't sleep because of the discomfort. She put this down to a reaction with the anti-biotics, so she stopped taking them and the rash went away in a day or two. She is a medical professional.
my question here is - I heard that when someone is sero-converting then symptoms ( if any ) appear simultaneously. Is that true or could someone have some of the symptoms and then others a couple of days later ? I am not asking you to diagnose since I realise you cannot do so but if you could answer that question I'd be quite happy.
Also we will be having sex soon. My intention would be to use a condom but what about unprotected oral sex ? Her on me and me on her ? I know about theoretical risk but what is the real word on the streets ????? I mean if we have protected vaginal sex and unprotected oral sex am I protected ?
By the way I recently had a negative HIV screen so when I talk about protecting myself I am not being selfish...... thanks !
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First of all, post your questions and concerns in your orginal thread.
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No problem - how do I do that ?
and....
since this is a different girl, different situation and 8 months after I last posted I thought it appropriate to start a new thread ....... sorry !
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Steve,
I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread.
If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.
Please also read through the Welcome Thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=220.0) so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.
Neither going down on a woman nor getting a blowjob are risks for hiv infection.
You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection. Sex with a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.
Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.
Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.
If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection.
Ann
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Folks...
Thanks for the input but I am no further forward.
I am happy that receiving a blowjob is not a risk - even though some people cannot get their heads around the fact that they will be the first documented case.
I had two questions :
1. How much of a risk is Oral - Vaginal sex ............ cunnilingus. I mean vaginal secretions do have the virus in them so what is the real risk as opposed to the theoretical one.
2. If someone is sero-converting do all the symptoms come and go at the same time or can they be spread out over a week or so ? Can someone who is seroconverting have the sore throat/ fever one day and then a couple of days after the original symptoms have gone break out in a rash.
Also my g/f tells me that the rash was really uncomfortable but I read somewhere that rash associated with ARS is non-itchy and causes no discomfort, only discolouration of the skin. is that true ?
thanks again
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Steve,
Going down on a woman - cunnilingus - is NOT a risk for hiv infection. It is the cervicovaginal fluid, which is more of a thick mucus than a fluid, that is infectious and you won't get anywhere near this during cunnilingus. The fluid that a woman produces when sexually excited comes from two glands on either side of the vaginal opening and have not been show to be particularly infectious, rather like sweat or tears.
Plus, saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.
Symptoms of ARS, if they happen at all, come all at once and go all at once.
Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.
Really!
Ann
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Ann,
Thank you