BOUNCING UP AND DOWN

[HIV? poz about being neg]

I am still not on any med celebrated my first year of being HIV positive in January.
Any ways so far things haven't been so bad my VL finally starting to come down.
So this is how my number have been since I converted.
Jan/25/07  VL +100 000  CD4 480 21%
Feb/20/07  VL +100 000 CD4 450 28%
Apr/30/07  VL +100 000 CD4 560 29%
May/30/07  VL+100 000 CD4 590 30%
Jul/03/07     VL+100 000 CD4 560 28%
Aug/02/07   VL+100 000 CD4 880 35% !!!!!! (Still not sure what happend here)
Oct/10/07    VL   53 000  CD4 340 26% !!!!!
Nov/13/07    VL              CD4 360 24%
Jan/02/08      VL  65 000 CD4 380 24%
May/15/08    VL   73 000 CD4 460 22%

My weight has been the same right through, my energies pretty good I still get swollen lymph nodes in my neck that annoy me but all in all doing great.
 So is it normal for your numbers to bounce up and down and what exactly is a major change in numbers?

[HIV? poz about being neg]

anybody?

[Roie]

What are you taking/eating  in order to bring your VL down as you said that you are not on meds?

As I understand it, major changes in CD4 no's is when they reach 350 and below then you will have to begin taking medications.

[John2038]

In how long time will you have to take meds, and if so, for how long time will they work compared with starting now ?
Probably not a big difference.
You don't know for how long time, but at least, you know that starting earlier reduce the side effects and provide a better response.
Especially considering your counts.

I'm wondering what is saying your doc, but if it was me, I will start now.

John

[sharkdiver]

Ya you betcha,

it's common to have your numbers go up and down when you aren't on meds.
Be sure to talk with your doctor about your concerns as well.

Sharkie

[HIV? poz about being neg]

Well honestly I just consume a lot of supplements and vitamines since the day I was diagnosed I have been taking about 25 diffrent kinds salmon oil, acidophiles, calcium, glutemine, Flaxseed, Viola, selenium, multi vitamine, vitamin C, Astragulus, Boxwood, Red Reishi, Carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, NAC, Immuno Care, Immuno Pro, Vitamine B, Green Tea Extract, Blue Berry Extract, Spirulina, MSM, Vitamine E, Zinc, Q-10, Resveratrol, Pomegranate, Vitamine D and Olive extract.
My Liver is functioning well, all other blood work has been great.
My DR says that I am on cruise control ?
As for starting Meds both specialists I have been seeing are not in support of starting early.
One feels that starting early could make you become resistant to certain meds earlier.
The other say that the meds can be really hard on the system and its better to start them only when you really need to and that as long as you continue to be monitored you should be able to catch opportunistic infections early enough before they start.

Also one of my DR's have said the average person without HIV has a general CD4 count of 500-700 is that correct ?
And if so why do some people say there CD4 is meassuring at 1300 and stuff is that because they are on Meds that are boosting them that high?

[Ann]

A "normal" CD4 count (that is, a CD4 count in an hiv negative individual) can range between 500 and 1,500. I would have thought an average in the general population would be more around 7-900. Your doctors estimate seem a little low to me, but what do I know?

Your counts look good to me - I know I wouldn't start yet with numbers like those. I've got eleven years so far without meds.

Ann

[redhotmuslbear]

Well honestly I just consume a lot of supplements and vitamines since the day I was diagnosed I have been taking about 25 diffrent kinds salmon oil, acidophiles, calcium, glutemine, Flaxseed, Viola, selenium, multi vitamine, vitamin C, Astragulus, Boxwood, Red Reishi, Carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, NAC, Immuno Care, Immuno Pro, Vitamine B, Green Tea Extract, Blue Berry Extract, Spirulina, MSM, Vitamine E, Zinc, Q-10, Resveratrol, Pomegranate, Vitamine D and Olive extract.

While none of what you are ingesting has any impact whatsoever on HIV, your body does still seem to be holding its own against the virus.  Yeah, you're on the low end of good CD4s and the percentage is sub-optimal, but with careful monitoring I hope you can forestall meds..... if that's what you want.

Best,
David

[aztecan]

I would continue to monitor my labs every quarter were I you. You are doing OK and should not be at risk for OIs yet.

If your CD4s drop below 400 and stay in the 300 or continue to drop, or if the viral load increases to more than 100,000 and continues to climb, even with CD4s of more than 400, I would be talking to your docs about meds.

I understand the doctor's concerns your expressed. But prudence regarding starting meds doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny if critical damage is being done because the virus is starting to run rampant.

Like Ann, I went 11 years before starting meds. I have now been on meds for 12 years. I am doing fine, or as fine as someone who is more than 50 can be doing.

So, keep up the good work and keep us posted.

HUGS,

Mark

[chm02]

I understand the doctor's concerns your expressed. But prudence regarding starting meds doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny if critical damage is being done because the virus is starting to run rampant.

Mark: Care to say more about what that "critical damage" might be? I'm curious.

HIV? poz about being neg: It looks like you are holding your own well under the viral load. I think Mark raises an interesting question though - about what other damage might be happening in the system that meds could not (eventually) restore.

[HIV? poz about being neg]

Mark?

[skeptik73]

I didn't start meds until three years in.  (Before I was on meds) my CD4s didn't bounce anything like yours, but my VL bounced way more than that, fluctuating between 10,000 and about 100,000.  There was definitely a pattern though that the numbers would move together.  CD4s rise, VL rises too, and the same for falling... for almost 3 years.  But my CD4s stayed between 400 and 540 until it dropped down to 350 with over 100,000 VL.  At that point, I opted to start.